- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
cross-posted from: https://slrpnk.net/post/15795315
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When lemmy.ml answer detected:
I like to get them going. I respond with “that’s BS” or “prove it” and they give me a essay
More energy efficient GPT?
I don’t have an issue with lemmy.ml users but that’s because I don’t use sweeping generalizations. I’ve had perfectly acceptable conversations with people across all kinds of instances.
I’m not a tankie but am a fan of parts of communism and I like socialism.
I like socialism too. But I hate bootlicking authoritarian simps who pretend like they know shit about socialism because they read that one Lenin essay on Marxist.org
The problem is that folks see these things implemented in the past and say “let’s just do that.” Why can’t we take the good parts and think beyond the rest? These are systems that just won’t work with current population growth and resources. We can always do far and away better than capitalism, but I’ve talked to a handful of working class people that lived under communism for years and they have nothing good to say about it. Not a single positive thing. It’s easy to dream about these things and wax poetic when you don’t experience them firsthand.
Any time a path opens to seize power, humans fill that void regardless of what they believe in. Now suddenly we’ve traded authoritarian 1 for authoritarian 2. It makes no sense to me and I read both Lenin and Marx.
It’s not even an issue of population. Communism requires material conditions you simply cannot create by killing the opposition, no matter how much you desire to preserve “the revolution.”
Capitalism is but one manifestation of material and labor scarcity. Until those things are eliminated you will experience the exact same ills in one form or another. Until those things are eliminated the only option available is harm reduction. Revolutionary communism fails specifically because it fails to recognize itself as a particularly shitty form of harm reduction, insisting the entire concept is bourgeoise propaganda. This is what contemporary leftist theorists have come understand, and what obnoxious internet edgelords refuse to acknowledge, because it requires admitting that Stalin and Mao didn’t get it right.
Ironically this is literally the foundation of Dengism and modern China, which MLs say they like, until you reduce it to first principles, at which point it once again becomes bourgeoise propaganda.
Until those things are eliminated you will experience the exact same ills in one form or another.
Under capitalism, stores throw perfectly good food in a padlocked bin while people starve. Investors speculate on empty properties while people die of exposure. Capitalism creates scarcity so that it can sell people the solution.
It’s 2024, our technologies for agriculture, medicine, engineering, and education are amazing. In terms of the basic necessities of life, we are already a post scarcity civilisation. What we’re lacking is a post scarcity economy to match it.
We can always do far and away better than capitalism
i think the real ticket, for global economics, especially ones that are going to be sustainable is going to be some sort of pseudo capitalist society. Especially one with a free market. Free market decentralization is a hard target to beat.
There’s room for a lot of interesting study here, i’m not sure any exists, and i’ve yet to see any unfortunately, it’s mostly just people dickwagging around trying to do the le socialism thing, which is funny, i guess.
The problem is that folks see these things implemented in the past and say “let’s just do that.” Why can’t we take the good parts and think beyond the rest?
Of course we should! Every instance of socialism should adapt to the specific material conditions. There’s not much reason to think that socialism in developed countries would look the same as socialism is pre-industrial societies.
It’s just that in order to know what worked and what didn’t, it’s necessary to treat those projects as serious, earnest attempts at socialism and to be willing to point out both the positive and negative aspects. And doing that will immediately get you branded as a tankie by .world. Because in practice, tankie doesn’t actually mean that you defend everything any socialist state ever did, it means that you defend anything a socialist state ever did. Thinking critically and trying to learn from the mistakes from the past makes you a tankie.
Dronies have a pathological need to distance themselves from every attempt at socialism (except the ones that failed, which can be upheld as perfect since they never had to implement their vision), which renders them unable to look at the past from an objective standpoint. They are more concerned with making sure everyone knows that they’re “one of the good ones” than they are about studying and learning from the past. Tankies, otoh, are willing to own up to the facts and acknowledge that past projects were genuine attempts, even when they ultimately failed as the USSR did. Of course it would not have failed if it didn’t have its flaws. But you will rarely see a dronie pushing this angle or interrogating the reasons for the failure, because learning from its mistakes is too close to treating it as as serious and legitimate project - far better (and easier!) to just write off the whole thing and push for shit that has only ever existed in your head and has never been tainted by contact with reality.
I’ve talked to a handful of working class people that lived under communism for years and they have nothing good to say about it. Not a single positive thing. It’s easy to dream about these things and wax poetic when you don’t experience them firsthand.
You should talk to some Australians instead. Australia’s communist nations have been stripped of their land, so most australians alive today don’t have much direct experience with communism, but the modern descendants of Australian communists all have good things to say about the way it was done 300 years ago what with the stateless, classless, moneyless gift economy.
My former officemate grew up in Russia in the 80s, he hated a shitload about growing up in the Soviet Union. He raved consistently about two things: the education system and gender equality.
His mother was a mathematician and computer programmer, and he didn’t have issues with school there until after he’d been here (the US) as an exchange student and had some… Cultural differences with his teachers.
“People who smile a lot in Russia are considered to be unintelligent”
What’s worse on the internet these days is “Marxists” that have never read Marx, or just the Manifesto, yet think themselves an authority on the subject. I made an intro to Marxism reading list to help alleviate that, and try to point out misframings and misunderstandings of Marx when I see it, but it’s still a huge issue across Lemmy. Particularly Lemmy.world.
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Posts like that encourage extremism. It pushes the lemmy.ml users who are normal out while angering and reinforcing the identity of the ones who are extreme.
if your community becomes more toxic when people leave it because other communities call it toxic…maybe its actually toxic.
IMO if I was running an instance it would have already defederated from ml instances.
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I’m not even a .ml user and posts like these are pushing me to switch to their instance lol.
That’s why I think they’re astroturfers. I mean how else are you going to deter people from a political idea without being completely insufferable?
The communism is a facade for their propaganda, and it also bolsters extremist discourse. Win-win for them.
It pushes the lemmy.ml users who are normal out while angering and reinforcing the identity of the ones who are extreme.
Sure, whatever. That’s what happened on X. The normal people are leaving and the Nazis are stuck in their hate bubble with no normal people to talk to. Let’s do that.
You’re absolutely right. I just signed up on .ml because I was a reddit refugee and it was one of the largest instances, and it got the fastest updates. Like a year later, suddenly everyone’s talking about me like I’m part of some crazy cult. I bet well over half of .ml users don’t even come close to the extreme stereotype, but are considering going to another instance just so we don’t get bullied any more. It’s likely going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
All of these spaces are permeated with foreign actors. Not all users, but I know a percentage of the users statistically have to be across all the large instances. I’m in tech and we’ve seen fake users appear in public Slack and Discord channels, try to schedule job interviews (it’s happened before), etc. The forces these governments have in tech behind the scenes is enormous, and there is no way to truly know who is and isn’t a state actor on the web.
We need more critical thinking. More separation of person from ideas. People get too hung up on figures.
Except on .ml that “critical thinking” you’re talking about is western anti Bolshevik propaganda to them and you’ll be banned.
That’s the problem with .ml, you just get banned.
Sounds like you might like anarchism
I do have some anarchist tendencies.
we do a little bit of dbzer0ing
Hey, I was you about 6 months ago. Same views, and then I was called a dirty imperialist just because I wasn’t left enough. Like, these ML people are out for blood. They want a revolution and it’s acceptable if people have to die to achieve it.
They want a revolution and it’s acceptable if people have to die to achieve it.
Yeah that’s how revolutions work. Because the alternative, at least in theory, is more people dying of poverty, environmental pollution, institutionalized oppression, and other consequences of the current global economic system.
The CCP nad Putin cucks aren’t even leftists, like at all. ML and Hexbear supported Donald Trump because he is anti-NATO.
I hate when leftists punch down on other leftists. It’s not a competition!
Nothing about a dictatorship is public ownership.
*ism is just a tool for any aspiring autocrat. Stalin would have been far-right if he saw it as being a valid pathway towards power.
Effective tyrants are forever pragmatic and never burdened by ideological loyalty.
Yes that’s why I stated Stalin, Putin, and the CCP are ideologically opposed to socialism/communism. People who enjoy socialist concepts should be opposed to Lemmy.ml, not see common grounds with them.
but am a fan of parts of communism and I like socialism.
Probably why you don’t have issues with Lemmy.ml users.
Im the same, I like socialism and the theory of communism is nice.
I don’t like .ml users because they hardcore believe and spread the bastardized authoritarianism-based CCP/Russian propaganda version of communism.
Right. They’re opposed to socialism and what the hold up as communism is actually Fascism with a heavy dose of State Capitalism.
What you’re looking for is anarchism. Aka libertarian socialism.
Anarchism is a political philosophy and movement that is against all forms of authority and seeks to abolish the institutions it claims maintain unnecessary coercion and hierarchy, typically including the state and capitalism.
Um. No. I rather enjoy having a government, just a government that isn’t corrupted by the rich and actually takes care of its people like it’s supposed to. That inherently necessitates it having authority.
That’s not what the theory of communism aims for, but you do you.
Edit: to go in a bit more details, anarchism doesn’t deny all authority, just authority gained by and used for coercion. A doctor would still have authority to recommend treatments, since they are more knowledgeable, for example. So that uncorrupted and caring government you want is simply a form of anarchism
Either you’re thinking of something else or you should go update Wikipedia then, because that’s where I got that description from.
That description does not contradict my words. It says about abolishing coercion and hierarchy, not authority
Edit: I re-read your reply. Yes, the part about being “against all forms of authority” is not entirely accurate, but the second part is true nonetheless. I suppose you could rephrase my example with the doctor and call it an “expertise” instead of authority, but the concept of it is people would still defer to specialists in specific fields that have more knowledge and experience than them.
As I’m new to the anarchism myself and do not wish to misrepresent its values, I think this this site might give you a better in-depth look
It’s extremely telling that you are relying on Wikipedia for your understanding of Communism, rather than Marx, Engels, etc. You should read theory, if you want to start I made an introductory Marxist reading list.
i like to think of anarchism as the educated brother to the miscarried libertarian-ism.
It’s harsh, but i’ve never seen a libertarian make a good point, or understand anything remotely relevant to government, so.
I think anarchy, by the very nature of it’s existence is more suited to handle the challenges presented by no government existing, notably, a new government being created. Because anarchy is most often following a government collapse, and followed by a new government being created.
It’s important to distinguish anarchy and anomie. The latter is the government collapse you mentioned, accompanied with lawlessness and lack of morals, while the former is simply lack of central overseeing authority (archism), for one reason or another.
The long term goal of anarchism is not destroying all governmental structures in one fell swoop, but rather gradually building communities based on liberty, solidarity and mutual help that don’t require hierarchy or coercion to function.
Then those communities naturally take over governmental functions like protecting the people, the central government dissolves when it is no longer needed and the process doesn’t harm anyone. No “new government” is created nor is necessary.
In terms of relationship between anarchism and libertarianism, I like to think of anarchists as a subset of libertarianists (since we all oppose authoritarianism fundamentally). I’ll admit I’m not as familiar with other libertarian ideologies.
You can still appreciate Karl Marx’s Manifesto without endorsing the Soviet Union or China.
Sure, in the same way I appreciate Kant or Kierkegaard or any other modernist - as foundational thinkers who laid the groundwork for more contemporary ideas. The entire issue is that so many internet leftists take Marx as dogma, and are often poor students of philosophy outside of that very narrow context, yet will lecture you about how you only disagree with them because you haven’t read enough year one polisci material. ML spaces are as dunning Kruger as the internet gets.
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relatable
Looks at username
Wait a minute…
Does “be civil” include constantly shitting on huge groups of users just because of the instance they created their account on? There’s a very simple solution for this if you truly believe an entire instance is worthless and it’s called the blocking function, but I suppose that’d stop the joy you get out of loudly complaining about that instance repeatedly.
.world consistently removes memes calling out their own communities. But they leave up any “meme” bashing .ml
But theres a difference, when a .world mod defends genocide or promotes imperalism you know its ok because its in the name of Western Democracy ™. Tbh .ml and .world are basically in a competition on who can fling the most shit and who can bootlick the hardest.
As does ml. Worse even. But the fact that both do is a defense of neither. So I’m not sure why you even bring it up. Be better. World isn’t tied to any particular political ideology. Ml 100% is. And if you mention absolute documented facts. You can and will be banned from there. Because the facts go against the narratives. World has its problems. But I haven’t seen anything approaching that yet.
a) Huge groups of users well known to spread the promotion, praise and propaganda of dictatorships and other authoritarian governments, bigotry, racism and transphobia. Even when there are hard facts against them.
b) The Lemmy blocking function isn’t anywhere as good as you think it is. Maybe even by design, the main admin on .ml is also the lead dev of Lemmy after all.
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I actually didn’t make this meme, I cross posted it from someone else on [email protected]
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It’s not like it’s a minority of users on .ml doing it that the admins/mods just haven’t brought the ban hammer down on. The admins are part of the problem along with mods cultivate the toxic tankie culture that gets shit on. It’s the non-tankie .ml users who are in the minority, they should have chosen a better crowd to hang with.
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yeah uh, that’s the joke. That’s the obviously implication of the joke here.
That’s like saying that “all murderers are bad” and then me going “well hey don’t you think is a little bit broad of a generalization? And unfair to people who were unfairly charged, or perhaps in inconvenient but justified circumstances?”
You could make the meme say “lemmy.ml tankies running free posting tankie bullshit” but that doesn’t roll as well as “lemmy.ml doing tankie things because lemmy.ml seems to have no problem with tankies existing”
You could make the meme say “lemmy.ml tankies running free posting tankie bullshit” but that doesn’t roll as well as “lemmy.ml doing tankie things because lemmy.ml seems to have no problem with tankies existing”
It did neither of those things though, so that’s irrelevant. It just says it’s a comment.
Can you point me to any member of these “huge groups of well known users” spreading bigotry, racism, and transphobia?
First rule of using Lemmy: If someone claims something happened on the fediverse without providing a link, they’re lying.
“Well known” is so patronizing. It’s like OP is saying “yeah, everyone knows about this, what are you, some kind of loser?”. Another one of those phrases that immediately discredits whatever allegation is to follow.
It’s a meme sub, chill out.
i assume “be civil” just means that you can’t call people “dipshit asshole dumbass idiot” and things akin to that, i.e needless name calling, calling out perceived problems as long as done civilly, or being rude, but in a civil discussed manner, is i think fair game.
i.e. i could call this a stupid post because it covers what should be clearly demonstrated by common moderation history, i.e. these kinds of threads stay around for a while, these kinds of comments tend to stick around, and that’s generally good enough reason to keep moderating as you are, precedent is a very strong thing.
but i couldn’t just call you a dumbass because you should know this, and therefore you must be the most uneducated person in the history of humanity. Because that’s not civil.
Pretty based take… coming from a lemmy.world user. /$
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All tankie users are in .ml, but not all .ml users are tankies.
You should always judge the merit of the comment, not whether or not the person is from .ml. If you see a comment that is pro-CCP or pro-Kremlin from an .ml user, then the point of the meme is valid. But a well-thought, benign, good-faith or wholesome comment from an .ml user should not be dismissed.
Not everyone in a nazi bar is a nazi. Let’s hear them out and give them the benefit of the doubt even though they could go to literally any bar, but keep going to the nazi bar
When choosing an instance, it is not necessarily overtly advertised as such. It’s just one of the largest instances, so many “regular” people are obviously going to pick it. New users are not going to be intimately familiar with the elaborate politics of federated Lemmy servers upon first arrival. It would be a bit bizarre to expect them to be.
Sure, and anyone can walk into a nazi bar. But with threads like this being fairly common, and ML people behaving as they do, you have every chance to realise pretty quickly and leave
Hell, ML people are bad enough that I imagine a lot of sane people leave lemmy entirely, if they pick an instance that hasn’t defederated ML yet. I’m looking at alternatives myself as getting associated with these types of people isn’t a great idea, and the lemmy developers are part of the problem
I mean I just never ended up subscribing to political communities, so I never see any political related things anyway. If you only subscribe to meme and lighthearted communities, you’re not likely to run into that stuff. Your comparison of it being a “Nazi bar” doesn’t work. I’ve never been someone who browsed the “all” category of Reddit, and I’ve not been inclined to do that here on Lemmy, either. So no, you often won’t see that sort of thing unless you’re browsing by all communities.
Well, you’d need to pay a very specific amount of attention to not notice the tankies from ML, but really notice and be bothered but people shunning ML because of the tankies. I guess it’s possible, but it seems unlikely to be common
Well now you’re not making any sense. I don’t see “tankie” comments because I don’t subscribe to or browse political communities. Yet I see plenty of posts and complaints about said users in non-political communities. Check where we are right now. We’re in a meme community. Of course if I subscribe to meme communities, I’ll see posts and comments like this. It’s not that complicated to understand.
I see plenty of ML people being awful in meme communities. I’m amazed you don’t. Any even remotely political meme will attract them, or at least would back when they were out in force supporting Trump leading up to the election.
And that is even though I’ve blocked ML and have a hair trigger for blocking .ml accounts
No doubt many have tried the fediverse and walked away because of Lemmy.ml/hexbear.
I don’t even admit that I use it as is because of the propaganda. I’m still hopeful for the future but my enthusiasm is dying.
Same, I can’t recommend lemmy to friends or coworkers because of this. Mastodon is much better at this
Maybe I’ll switch to Mastadon. I find myself going back to Reddit as often as using Lemmy these days, so maybe it’s time.
I suspect everyone switching won’t solve the problem. Seems unavoidable that open-access, anonymous social media will be a target for propaganda any time it becomes popular. If everyone leaves for Mastadon, the shills and their LLMs will move over there.
That’s why I am working to stopped supporting lemmyml. I have created a few new communities already. I don’t want to mod to much so it would be nice if some other people followed suite.
Yeah it seems a lot of the bigger communities from Lemmy.ml have seen alternatives grow in popularity on different instances now.
Makes sense given the current Lemmyml admins
Except the pro-Russians won’t say they’re pro-Russians.
A lot of Russian propaganda is just sowing FUD.
Here’s a tangentially related comic, as I just read the latter bit of your comment in that tone, (not saying you’re guilty of the same things.)
Basically, because being directly pro-Russia is so see-through, a lot of bad actors merely sow FUD. For one check [email protected] if you want an example. A very polite person who lists links and sources (firehose of falsehood is also a soviet strategy btw).
Dude pretends to be American, talks American politics, but always in line with Russian propaganda, while saying things like “reality has a well known Russian propaganda bias” and absolutely refusing to address whether he is pro-Russian or not, despite very clearly having talking points which show he is strongly pro-Russian.
So either he’s an American who fucking loves Soviet culture and larps being Russian, is actively against Ukraine and believes Russia was eight to invade it, so the least patriotic American to ever exist.
OR… (and I believe this to be a tad more likely) he’s actually a lying Russian.
But Russians aren’t known for disinformation and lies, right? Right…?
Yes, of course you are right. But for those less experienced on discourse, there is the principle of charity. It is important to give the benefit of the doubt that the interlocutor is acting in good faith. But when you exhaust all the good-faith and sensible arguments, and that person resorts to either providing irrational points or acting unreasonably and/or disingenuously, then it is completely safe to assume that the person is actually a bad-faith actor. It’s on that person, not on you.
But you should not readily accuse someone a troll unless you could calmly point out why the person is such and such. Trolls exactly want you to do that.
Haven’t i seen you cast these types of accusations before…?
Pure AD HOM. Instead of addressing a single part of my argument, you’re instantly pointing a finger at my person, but you’re so easy that I don’t mind engaging.
“Accusations” like quoting his own comments?
He claims to be American. He says “reality has a well known Russian propaganda bias.” He won’t answer the question “are you pro-Russian”.
Those aren’t opinions. Those are facts you can verify yourself.
Fervently and actively trying to say Russian propaganda doesn’t exist, definitely not on Lemmy, while refusing to answer whether he’s pro-Russian or not. Just what kind of American would you have to be to support Russia and be against Ukraine while actively promoting Russian propaganda? Please, do reason that out for me. Thanks.
I’m not debating you bud, relax.
Pretty much my entire experience with your account is dealing with you accusing me of being a russian operative, even linking me into threads across instances in threads I had no involvement in.
I’m just pointing out the pattern here, though I’m grateful you’ve moved on to another target now.
edit because @[email protected] got himself banned on my instance:
I’ve repeatedly stated that I’m not russian nor pro-russian - but that’s the point. There is no way of addressing this accusation thoroughly enough to satisfy the accuser, which is why nearly every community/instance has a rule against it. Nevermind the hopelessness of trying to categorize/typify every anonymous user along some nationalist line of personal significance.
Confusing analysis for justification is a common enough mistake, but it’s an even more common bad-faith way of dismissing materialist analysis entirely. Following various users around to make those accusations is simply a way to force disengagement onto others and potentially solidify reactionary impulses against communism/socialism more broadly.
Oh yes, “another target”.
You felt threatened, because I asked you if you were pro-Russian. Took you a while to respond, btw. And did you even give a yes or no answer? I fail to recall you saying you’re not pro-Russian. And I’ve never accused you of being a “Russian operative”, lol. Spreading Russian propaganda doesn’t even require that you are a Russian. But Davel is claiming to be American, while being intensely pro-Russian and due to the interactions someone dug in the modlog last time, we also know there’s an actual organised effort with them. I still haven’t said that organised effort is actually some paid “operatives”.
You read too much into things. Improve your reading comprehension and maybe you won’t feel so easily threatened by simple questions like “are you pro-Russian” when you use a username like “archomrade” and constantly post things consistent with Russian propaganda. Perhaps you just don’t realise it?
Thanks for your efforts fighting disinformation. Seriously.
I literally cannot see anything you’ve posted after you were banned - an instance ban prevents any of your activity from federating. It isn’t that I ‘stop responding’, that possibility has simply been taken away from me because Dasus can’t resist russia-jacketing anyone who disagrees with them. I can only see your comments if I visit the post from any other instance url. Call it unhealthy curiosity, I figured you’d be shadowboxing in my absence.
I do not support Russia and Putin is a piece of shit - feel free to send a screenshot to the kremlin if it makes you feel better. The US isn’t getting involved out of benevolence, though, and Ukraine would be fucked by IMF and US aid conditions for the next century even if they were successful in repelling the russian invasion. But my material analysis about that conflict isn’t even at issue here, instead it’s your insistence that any analysis that involves Russia at all be sufficiently critical, else the speaker be condemned as a pro-russian stooge. It doesn’t mean I think that russian capitalism is preferable, it’s just an acknowledgement that it’s western capitalism that has historically -and is currently- obstructing the development of working-class solidarity across the globe, and exchanging Ukrainian (and russian) lives for its expansion is a shit deal to put it mildly.
No war but class war.
I used to be on ml when I first joined lemmy because I did know better, now I love my instance.
Do you really love or have any feeling towards your instance? I think of it more like an e-mail address than a “name” for like an apartment building or mascots/team name (probably why these posts confuse the shit out of me). My first instance had connection issues/downtime so I switched to .ml. Almost switched from them like a month ago because of slow loading times but seems to be better the past couple of weeks (this is the basics of html, I shouldn’t have to “watch” it load).
I just always scroll on All (active), and sometimes subscribed if I’m feeling in the mood so I never even consider my instance unless something technical or posts like this come up. I have a couple of mobile devices that I’m never logged into that I’ll pop up lemmy on from different instances (.world, .ee, etc), I actually am less likely to use an instance that advocates heavy defederation.
I don’t mean it in a parasocial relationship way or anything. I just like the vibe here and think the admin is cool.
Also, the more decentralised the network is the better for everyone involved.
The admins of ml are tankies and so are a lot of the communities there. The non tankie users are moving away from that instance which increases the tankie concentration.
I think what you are meaning to say is that many tankies can behave like normal people. To take your comment farther, tankies can be anywhere but you will most likely see them coming from I stances like ml and hexbear or fresh accounts on other instances.
Based 👌❤️
As a resident of a politically indifferent instance that is on good terms with everyone, I can say one thing:
Fuck absolutely everyone who turns Lemmy into yet another Internet battlefield.
Leave .ml alone. Leave Hexbear alone. Even yes - leave Lemmygrad alone. People there will not change their opinion when facing hatred, and newbies coming there doesn’t change the big picture, as Lemmy is federated and they can figure stuff out for themselves.
Trying to silence entire instances, especially the biggest ones, is absolutely not a welcoming picture to whoever’s coming here, and being cut out and filtered for happening to choose the “wrong” instance is the worst possible greeting.
Developer: makes platform
End User: “Fuck you.”
Tale as old as time.
But unlike Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Larry Page, the good folks at .ml did nothing wrong.
Genocide apologia is ‘nothing wrong’ to you, I see. Unsurprising.
It’s UnderpantsWeevil, our very own local .world tankie
I have never seen .ml people engage in genocide apologia. They’re fond of authoritarian governments which I find distasteful, but they aren’t pro-genocide.
Go ask about the Uyghurs in China over there and get back to me
A while back they were calling for the total destruction of France
Ask them about the Uyghur genocide or the ongoing genocide of Ukrainians or the Holodomor or the deportation of the Crimean Tatars or etc etc etc etc
Drag has seen many .mls say “Democrats are Republicans are exactly the same.”
The difference between Harris 2024 vs Trump 2024 is one genocide vs three. That’s millions of lives.
Drag has seen many .mls deny the loss of millions of Palestinian, Ukrainian, and transgender lives to push their agenda.
Genocide denial is wrong.
Stop with the sensationalism
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worth .003$ vs a hexbear user
Like comparing the Ruble to the North Korean Won LMAO
Pffft North Korea ain’t Won shit! (Sorry I see a pun I make a pun.)
This is even less than a Schrutebuck.
oh I’d rather have a schrutebuck 100%
- Why does everyone have beef with lemmy.ml
- Why don’t you just block the instance
Edit: thank you for real responses, got so used to be people getting pissed for no reason on social media that I was genuinely surprised to check Lemmy and see a bunch of genuine answers with no butthurt to be seen
Lemmy has a very different community than Reddit - here, people are often outright kind.
In part that’s a large reason for the beef with Lemmy.ml, e.g. recently a mod there removed comments for a user over a misunderstanding in a game, and in the process said that they (the MOD!) wanted to shoot them (the OP), doubling down and even tripping down to say “I hope you die soon”. (Described in more detail here.)
It is ironic that one of the very first Lemmy instances, and also being the one whose admins are also the developers of the Lemmy sourcecode, is so much less like the rest of the people on Lemmy, and more like Reddit. But it is what it is.
Why does everyone have beef with lemmy.ml
The admins and mods cultivate a community of genocide denial and authoritarian apologism, which many users on the instance then buy into.
Why don’t you just block the instance
Instance blocking only blocks communities, not users, who still show up whenever there’s a Chinese genocide to deny or a Russian atrocity to “WHATABOUT”, or a non-Western aligned dictator to “BOTHSIDES”.
My current favorite is Taliban-simping.
When I accidentally blocked an instance, any comment from a user on that instance would be replaced by a message like “you have blocked this instance and so will not see this comment.” I don’t know if that’s a feature of my client, Connect, or of lemmy itself.
Should be your client.
Damn I’m jealous of your client! That’s a new feature to me!
Enjoy! At least if you’re on Android. I don’t know if an iOS version exists.
You are forgetting the strong hatred for France.
Lemmy devs are tankies, especially the main maintainer
At least they’re more level headed than Nutomic is.
Nutonic is literally a transphobe who is on record as saying that trans rights are western degeneracy
I wonder what Blahaj thinks of him
Hexbear isn’t fond of Nutomic either.
The ml in lemmy ml means marxism-leninism
It means Mali and was chosen because it was cheap/free
You’re both right!
It is Mali’s domain, and Marxist-Leninists choose that domain to work out of because of the initialism.
Kinda like why BIOT’s domain is so popular with the tech folks.
And Tuvalu’s domain is popular with streaming sites
chosen because it was cheap
Um nah, there are a LOT of cheap ass TLDs, hell even .com TLDs are only $10-20 a YEAR
It might not actually mean marxism-leninism (then again, who the hell knows, we have .zip TLDs now ffs), but it sure does to the .ml admins
Back 3y ago the users claimed it did mean marxist-leninist (or rather if we must be pedantic, that the TLD does mean Mali but they chose it because it meant marxist-leninist to them.) They stopped around the time of the exodus (read: they put on a mask to trap unsuspecting redditors) and they’ve ramped back up since everyone defederated hex and grad (my guess, those users created .ml alts specifically to proselytize to the unwilling like Evangelical roaches once their supply to feed their victim complex dried up.)
History for posterity’s sake.
I wouldn’t have a problem with if it wasn’t for the mods
The ml stands for Mali, which is the country the instance domain is registered to. The Marxist-Leninist connection is a happy coincidence for them.
I choose not to block the instance because there is a very small group on there that have non-political discussions that I enjoy, same with hexbear.
I also don’t like creating an echo chamber where all I hear is what I want to hear. Hearing from the other side, as disgusting as their viewpoints can be, at least let’s me know how they think.
I don’t agree with their tankie views, but it does force me to see other views. However I usually just eyeroll and move on.
If I see racism or hate though that’s an immediate block.
Agreed, if it’s targeted like that, you get a block.
I like this view, because I have zero idea what I just walked in on. This account is just 16 days old and I’m just here to chat non-politics and doomscroll. And by 16 days old I mean like 4 because their acceptance email got sent to spam and I didn’t notice it until then.
Tbh, I had no idea there were even factions or drama among the instances.
You should make an account on another instance, if you don’t like the heavy hand of defederation of .world, lemmy.sdf.org is a good one and sh.itjust.works is another
There’s also this community if you want to see for yourself the kind of behavior the admins and mods of .ml support, encourage and even participate in [email protected]
Honestly, that’s what I’m currently doing. I’ve always chuckled at the cleverness of the name sh.itjust.works. I started on .world, but I forgot to migrate my 2fa because I switched from Google Authenticator to an open source one on a new phone and didn’t take my lemmy token for some damn reason.
I’m only switching because I’m a neutral entity online when it comes to politics and identity. I use the internet to escape that, not dive into it. I don’t mind seeing it, I just move along and let people be people. I’d rather not be potentially tied to an image or faction by association; its nothing against .ml or anything.
Lemmy.ml admins will delete anything that doesn’t support China or Russia, and they’ll also delete anything that speaks positively of Western countries or concepts. Then they’ll purge the logs so that there’s no evidence that they’re censoring basically everything.
I started on .ml, and left after a couple months when I realized I was the only person on the instance who wasn’t a tanky fully committed to arguing with every post I see. They seem to have toned down a bit after getting defederated a couple times, but there are a lot of extremists on that instance, and they’re very loud. I felt like I was in a Chinese political re-education camp half the time.
the other side
Kremlin propaganda isn’t the other side
Yet propaganda is what has the US where we are today. If you understand the propaganda, you can help push back.
Yes, like pushing back against lemmy.ml
- Lots of toxicity and bad takes.
- It isn’t literally the entire instance.
It isn’t literally the entire instance.
Maybe not, but when the admins and mods are part of the problem, it becomes pervasive.
In my experience it is pretty much the entire instance. All the sane people moved to other places.
Yeah, Hexbear is the worst. I would say exploding heads, but they’re gone now.
Why does everyone have beef with lemmy.ml
Extending an invitation to peruse [email protected] for some context of mod behavior
The mods of that community are communists. They seem to mod in good faith but keep that in mind.
Their mods behave like Russian commissars. Their users go along with it.
Your comment has been removed for including carnist hate words. We don’t use words that glorify murder like the “b” word.
Huh
They’re making a shitty “HAHA VEGANS DUMB” joke like it’s 2010.
Nah, one of my kids are vegetarian and I cook to support them. I have no issues with vegans. I see how it came across that way though.
I suspect you must have missed the .ml vegan community drama a couple months ago. Take every bad stereotype about vegans and ramp it to 11. Everything was in bad faith. It bled into a couple different communities.
Ah makes sense, gotta put the /s when making references like that
deleted by creator
That would have been better in hindsight.
Ohhhhh I actually did miss that completely, my bad.
Tbf, guess what the comms I got banned from are, and guess why? Vegan subs, “carnist propaganda.”
I’m just saying, don’t make a post bemoaning “why do people hate vegans” and then ban the guy saying “because they often behave like evangelical christians.” I got kicked out of church for much the same reason, ironically.
Lemmy.ml is admin’d and moderated mostly by Marxists, and the liberal side of Lemmy is hostile to that. That’s the principle contradiction, everything else stems from that core issue.
Ah yeah. Good old fashioned social media toxicity.
Mixed with some old good internal left fighting.
The taste of success. Surely.
internal left fighting.
I’m talking to people on Lemmy.ml who say things like “Reality has a well known Russian propaganda bias”, “Russia was right to invade Ukraine, it needs to be denazified”, “Uighur genocide is made up”, etc, etc etc, I wouldn’t call that “internal left fighting”
Doesn’t mean all .ml users are like that.
What happens here is an attack on a wide group based on a very arbitrary characteristic.
It’s not that we’re judging all .ml users. It’s just that any .ml user can be a potential tankie who will defend Putin to his grave, like the admins and mods.
This is reflected in the content on the instance, and what sort of things you’re allowed to post there. Which does influence people using said instance, even if very slightly, and unnoticeably.
I don’t actually agree with the meme, but the humour stems from the fact that it could be true insofar that it’s pretty often that you’ll find shameless tankies wanting to suck Putler off and destroy “western imperialists”.
So I do take comments at their own value, no matter the instance you’re from. But lemmy.ml is almost as shit as lemmygrad.ml
It’s not arbitrary, it’s a picked identity which shares some common features.
In which things is someone allowed to think differently from the US Democratic party before they are expelled from the left?
And fuck Putin, btw. But there are people with widely diverse points of view on an incredibly amount of matters, that can have common grounds on many other issues. And, at least for me, they’ll need to try harder that just being putin’s useful idiots to be expelled from my definition of what the “left” is.
Especially on a matter as complex as Ukraine war. That I gladly support arming and helping Ukraine, and my country will keep arming and helping Ukraine when USA steps back once Trump sits in the office. But I still understand that is a complex issue and that different points of view are expected. I have mine, which is support for Ukraine. Others may support Russia on this. But as long as we both agree on other issues I won’t deny that. If they support end of capitalism, workers rights, LGBT rights or gender equality we would have common ground on those topics.
But I still understand that is a complex issue and that different points of view are expected. I have mine, which is support for Ukraine.
Russia invaded Ukraine. That’s a war of aggression. Russia is wrong in this. Don’t pretend like it’s a “complex issue” and “we need to listen to both sides”.
No, we don’t. Russia is the aggressor, they’re in the wrong, they need to fuck off from Ukraine and Putin be held responsible in a court of international law. There’s no ifs ands or buts about it.
“We could have common ground…”
Yeah I don’t need to have any common ground with people who actively lie, spread disinformation, undermine legitimate information, deny international crimes, deny genocides, spread values of authoritarian nations.
I don’t even identify with any left-right division but I’m definitely not what you’d call an “enlightened centrist”, because that’s a garbage position for garbage people who are afraid of any sort of confrontation.
About a bit less than a hundred years ago there were discussion like “we need to appease this Hitler fellow, seems awfully mad” “maybe if we don’t protest over him taking the Sudetenland, he’ll calm down?”
Would you be intellectually arguing the merits of Hitler’s invasion of Sudetenland as “a complex issue, you have to consider both sides”?
No. Fuck that. Take a stance.
I have a stance. I did say I support Ukraine. Same I say I’m clearly leftist.
But you don’t need to stop being able to think just because you support a side. You can support a side and still understand the complexity of the issue, and that you are supporting the lesser evil.
I still support Ukraine on this. Mostly because Russia initiated hostilities, and because I think the European Union is a better place to live than Russia. We protect people’s rights better. But it’s a complex issue because there are people in some Ukrainian regions that does not want to be Ukrainian anymore, and that does not want to be forced to move away from Russian influence. And this is clearly a proxy war between two empires.
I have my stance, but I’m not blinded by it.
I don’t need to think “all opinions are equal” to be “able to think”. I don’t need to accept Russians saying they’ve done nothing wrong and to “consider it from their point of view.” Russia broke international law.
It’s not a complex issue.
Oh yeah the old “no there’s definitely people who actually want to be Russians in the parts of Ukraine Russia invaded illegally so they should probably maybe be able to keep those illegally invaded areas.” No. Is there documentation of, say, Ukrainian people voting in Russian elections? That might imply they consider themselves Russians, right? Yes, there is documentation of that.
Occupied Ukraine encouraged to vote in Russian election by armed men
Stop being an apologist to Russia.
Do you understand that by calling me Russian apologists, when I’ve said several times that I support Ukraine, is just making my point?
You see enemies even in your allies.
If we are naming moustached men I remember some paranoid mustache men that also thought everyone was his enemy. How did that feel? Ah?
Last paragraph is just a joke, I don’t actually think you are a stalinist just because you are so radical in your views, but you get me.
You can say you support Ukraine, and still be apologist for Russia. Those aren’t mutually exclusive.
“You are so radical in your views.”
You’re literally an apologist for Russian authoritarianism. You’re spreading the propaganda that occupied Ukrainians actually want to be Russians. That is bullshit that Russia has been spreading for years. It’s not controversial either. You just keep yourself ignorant, and probably didn’t even click on the link I pasted, and definitely didn’t read it. And you have the nerve to talk to me about the “ability to think”?
“Our citizens are very afraid. Of course if Russians with soldiers come to their flat and ask if they’d like to vote for Putin, everyone will say: OK, yes. Because everyone wants to save their life. But it does not mean that our citizens want to support Putin.”
One resident of the Kherson region - the south-eastern part which is occupied by Russian forces - described to the BBC how voting was organised in his village.
We are unable to disclose his name or location due to security concerns.
“Pro-Russian locals visit households with ballot boxes, accompanied by armed military men. If they knock and no one opens, they move on to the next house. They don’t break into houses, but they do visit,” the local resident said.
They added: "This is ridiculous. What kind of election is it when there are two locals - one holding a list of voters and the other a ballot box - and a military man with a machine gun? This isn’t democracy. It’s a comedy show."
Here’s more.
Ukraine war: Russia claims win in occupied Ukraine ‘sham’ referendums
News agencies run by the pro-Kremlin administrations in Donetsk and Luhansk are reporting that up to 99.23% of people voted in favour of joining Russia - a high percentage that would be unusual in a vote of this nature.
Like you can’t… or won’t call bullshit on things like ^ that?
You supposedly being “for Ukraine” doesn’t really matter when you’re touting Russian propaganda, consciously or not.
hmm, I wonder why .ml dislikes .world so much. It couldn’t possibly have to do with us shitting on them so much.
hmm, I wonder why many other instances dislikes .ml so much. It couldn’t possibly have to do with them praising and spreading the propaganda of authoritarian governments so much.
As a user of neither, I’ve only been banned from one of them for making fun of government leaders
Don’t leave us hanging why did .world ban you?!
i’m blanket banned from .ml presumably over genocide debate, and i’ve been clocked on my instance a few times as well.
Though only for a week each time, so that’s interesting.
It’s because they can’t delete posts on .world
That’s a bit harsh if you ask me. Back in 2021 there wasn’t many Lemmy servers for register.
You can scroll through my 1.400 comments and don’t find a tankie-like comment.
Btw. Lemmy.ml is the dev server, every new update and feature starts here.
That’s a bit harsh if you ask me.
My thoughts exactly for getting banned for making a simple joke.
I used to have a Lemmy account many years ago. I may of thought Lemmy was making fun of communism at the time and I made a meme that got me banned.
A few years later here I am.
