- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Summary
Key leaders of the “Abandon Harris” movement, which encouraged voters to oppose Kamala Harris due to U.S. support for Israel during the Gaza war, are now expressing unease about Trump’s incoming administration.
Many in the movement, including prominent Muslim leaders, voted for Trump hoping he would bring peace to the Middle East.
However, concerns are growing over his Cabinet picks, such as Mike Huckabee and Tulsi Gabbard, which some see as troubling for Muslim communities.
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Do youean the leader of abandon & punish palestine™, right?
It gets harder to continually extend sympathy and solidarity with all of the fucknuts who are ostensibly allies on the left, when they focus on a single media-focused disaster, and they try to “send a message” to their own side, by backstabbing them and helping the fascist who will be 1000x worse.
Progressives who proclaim their hate for both parties are simply binary thinkers whose privilege insulates them from the consequences of their “principled stands”. They wonder why the country doesn’t just hand all power over to Progressives… go blow.
shocking - It’s almost as if there was a coordinated media campaign to paint both sides the same, and convince a bunch of people to vote against their own self interests. Absolutely did not see this coming… Nope, absolutely not.
Unfortunately it boiled down to selecting the lesser of the two evils and the Abandon Harris clowns chose the neo-Nazi MAGAts which will send, for free, a nice assortment of 155 mm artillery shells to Israel… From my point of view, zero sympathy for your FAFO.
Yep. They’re getting exactly what they voted for, whether they like it or not. They might not have liked Harris’ limp wristed attempts at encouraging moderation and restraint, but Trump’s plan was to “Finish the problem” and will not just enable, but actively encourage genocide.
I’ll never understand how people could vote for Trump over Harris on the Israel thing.
Trump was crystal clear he would give Israel whatever they needed to get it done and quick. Democrats rolled over for Israel but at least made it known they weren’t happy about it. Which is most certainly not enough but still.
I just hope the Democratic party takes the hint that their extremely middle-of-the-road approach to these and many other serious problems is killing them during elections. They should stop trying to please everyone (and especially the far-right) and commit to an actual opposing viewpoint.
The Democratic Party is not trying to please everyone. They’re answering to their owner’s commands and campaigning to voters in ways that don’t offend their owner’s demands.
Honestly I’m thinking a lot of this was another Russia-sponsored propaganda campaign. I’ve noticed that WhAt AbOuT IsRaEl is coming up a lot in response to articles or discussions about the shit they’re pulling, as if one can’t oppose the shitty actions of both.
No Trump lied he would bring peace. Harris said she would give Israel everything it needs. You are switching the sides around.
Trump lied he would bring peace
No, Trump told the truth; there will be the kind of peace you find at the site of hundreds of mass graves.
The fuck are you talking about
No no no,they saved Palestine, remember?
Now that the Dems aren’t in control all those Palestinians are perfectly safe.
Right, tankies? That’s all you were screeching about back in November. Now it’s cricket chirps, like Palestine even mattered to you lot. Disgusting.
There has been a recurring argument (not mine, heaven forbid) both prior to and in the aftermath of the election that not voting for the dems would show them that they can’t keep running away to the right and still expect to win. It would teach them a lesson.
It baffles me that they think a) the Dems would actually learn the lesson, b) the alternative wouldn’t be that much worse and c) the alternative that quite explicitly aimed to abolish democracy entirely would willingly afford the dems a chance to learn that lesson. If they can’t eliminate democracy itself, they’ll try to neuter and bias it as heavily as possible until they’ve got the same kind of pseudo-democratic one-party fuckery that you see in other countries like… China, North Korea, Russia, Belarus…
Huh, that’s funny, seems like all the countries whose boots they’re so eager to lick. I’m sure that’s coincidence, right?
Actually, that’s a lie. I don’t believe it’s coincidence at all. I think it’s part of a deceitful strategy to undermine democracy through spreading willful ignorance and channeling voter frustration and disillusionment into frustration with democracy itself. Hell, there are even people claiming that a dictatorship is a necessity of revolution, that you can’t build a new and better system without placing someone in charge of building it - because that worked out so fucking well with the other communist revolutions, right?
Every single fucker who gargles dictator cock under the guise of “communism” and “leftism” is an authoritarian, a traitor against the people they feign class solidarity with. You don’t save democracy by not participating. You don’t hold politicians accountable by supporting their opponents.
And that’s being charitable and assuming they’re just misguided, not intentionally malicious foreign actors.
well said
I love how you are being downvoted without anyone actually providing a counter point. Because you are absolutely right.
Leading up to the election lemmy was flooded with Palestine bullshit and Genocide Joe, and people that suggested it’s a war started by fucking Israel and you should be boycotting them were downvoted.
A lot of people here got swept up in the propaganda, and it was painful to see how dumb my side can be, but here we are.
Orange man is coming and suddenly no-one is posting about Palestine and every thread I’m in doesn’t have people screeching genocide Joe.
I’m fully convinced lemmy was flooded with foreign assets spreading bullshit and hurting democratic turnout.
It’s painful to see how effective it was, an an issue so ridiculous I couldn’t have believed it if it was in a book. Country X, with president Y attacks Z, and idiots here are screaming at county U with president J…
It wasn’t just Lemmy, I know otherwise reasonably intelligent people who became literally brainwashed from TikTok. We’re talking far left, never Trumper’s, knew he was an existential threat, but couldn’t have their moral superiority tarnished and HAD to vote 3rd party. They bought into that propaganda hook, line and sinker.
I’m not from the US but I know that I would really struggle morally to cast a vote for either party.
Yes, voting for Trump because of Palestine is stupid, but I can easily see how voting for the party that keeps sending money and weapons, and supporting them in the UN, while pretending to ask them to “be more careful about killing civilians”, would not be very desirable either.
The US electoral system is absolute dogshit, but in my opinion the Dems lost this election all by themselves.
The Abandon Harris campaign was quite clear they did not expect Trump to be better. The writer has a pretty clear agenda.
Discipline the voters. Don’t dare try to influence our constantly right drifting policies. You better vote for us no matter what or else.
But don’t call these people stupid. That would be racist.
People I’ve interacted with on Lemmy 👆
Edit:
Are these people in the room with you right now 🙄
Right here dumbass.
For all I know you dropped a bloody slur. That link is useless, “dumbass” - the comments were removed.
Theirs isn’t, dumbass. Read the title and the comment they responded to. What other context do you need?
Lmfao bro you’re ridiculous. We are missing MULTIPLE chunks of the conversation.
And no it’s not racist to say someone is wrong just because they’re part of a marginalized group. I think it’s incredibly arrogant of people to speak on behalf of of other marginalized groups like that, and yes they get pretty racist if you go too far down the “we know what’s best for you and your people” path, but to just walk out and say “you can’t critique them that’s racist” is ridiculous to me. And if that’s not what the conversation is saying, who can blame me for reading it how I did? We’re missing half the damn conversation. But apparently that doesn’t matter to you?
In their head, probably.
Your comments were removed we have no clue what you said.
The comment I linked directly proves what I said in the top level comment. No further context is necessary.
Ok
hypocrites, these people are two faced hypocrites. they get what they wanted with the election and now their all upset? if these people are not the definition of a hypocrite idk what is.
Well, they voted for the leopards eating faces party and now their faces are being eaten by leopards. Huh.
Funny how that works.
They voted for the democrats?
I get the joke and at this point I’m disillusioned enough to laugh at it. The Democratic party is so disconnected from the working class that, assuming there is another election, I don’t know what’s next.
America was built on this stuff. Go ask a native american. Theres always been a group that is systematically abused and murdered for profit. As long as americans value money over morals this will keep going.
You’re not wrong, but there was a time when the regulatory capture was not so complete, when politicians were not openly bought and sold… Am I just having nostalgia for a time that never was? Maybe… I still have hope though.
I think you are right about regulatory capture, just I think it was always technical limitations rather than people making better decisions.
Yeah, that makes sense too. I think there are definitely some technical limitations, design flaws, perverse incentives, etc. baked into the political system that have led us where we are today. It’s a bit too resistant to change.
anti genocide voters are not hypocrites.
People who ignore the realities of strategic voting in a FPTP system, then pat themselves on the back for their moral superiority are hypocrites. Anti-Genocide wasn’t even on the table. Ignoring literally every other issue that was on the table just so they can feel good about throwing away their vote makes them hypocrites.
The Palestinian people have gained absolutely nothing from those anti-genocide votes. They’re virtue-signalling at best, intentional spoiler votes at worst.
Meanwhile, there are labour protections, checks on corporate enshittification, mechanisms to slow down the accumulation of wealth and institutions of democracy that the incoming administration will tear down (or at least try to) that the alternative wouldn’t. All of these are victims of that arrogance, to think that an anti-genocide vote is worth more than an anti-christofascism(+genocide) vote.
They’re virtue-signalling
Harris lost across nearly every single demographic. Thats disengagement, not virtue signallers. You wish it was virtue signallers so you would have someone to be mad at besides Harris.
Oh I have plenty of people to be mad at - Putin, Netanyahu, Trump, Harris, Biden, the DNC, the conservative wing of the Democratic Party, authoritarian bootlickers masquerading as leftists…
Voter disengagement is an issue, yes, but people advocating for voting against Harris on grounds of voting against Genocide (which, you know, is the whole topic here) fail doubly: First, they pretend it’s the core issue of the election and their vote puts them on the anti-genocide side, and second, they pretend it was a topic of the election at all, such that there would even be an anti-genocide side to put them on.
So yes, I am mad at people pretending that voting against Harris somehow makes them more virtuous. I’m even more mad at the people voting against her for actually relevant reason, but that’s not the topic here.
So yes, I am mad at people pretending that voting against Harris somehow makes them more virtuous.
Sometimes when given an impossible choice the only possible choice is not to act, or to choose something thats not on offer. Some people felt they had to make that choice in the last election, and I dont see how you cant empathize with that. Some of them werent voting for trumps policies as much as they were voting for trump to come in and do what he said he’d do-- burn this system to the ground with a flamethrower. If your family were getting genocided and you existed in a voting system which gave no choice on the ballot but to continue it, wouldnt you be brave enough make that third choice, or would you simply vote to kill your own?
I’m mad just like you– I’m mad at the DNC, the centrists, and Biden/Harris for creating that situation and not forcing some other outcome. Sometimes these bad things happen because we allow for them to and make space for them to exist. You and me.
Why didnt MANY more Dems register their dissatisfaction with genocide in the “uncommitted” vote? Are we so indifferent to what bad policies Biden/Harris was proposing? It would have cost Dems nothing, Biden was going to win over Williamson in that half arsed primary anyway. But the dem voters by and large couldnt even be bothered to lift a finger to signal disapproval with our government sponsoring a far right wing genocide of some “browns” (and some reporters, doctors, aid workers, american citizens etc) in some far away country. By and large, only the youth, progressives, and muslims were willing to even do this symbolic vote to message our leadership that this stuff mattered a lot.
So you’re angry at the victims now huh. I’m struggling to be concerned about centrist anger. We’re all going down civlization’s toilet together now, on the centrists watch. Maybe the centrist dem voters will finally feel that they have something in common with anyone but their own immediate family and their bank accounts. But frankly I’m not holding my breath, and I dont care much about centrist anger myself. Why take advice or criticism from those you dont respect?
An impossible choice between…?
The persistent myth that both parties are equally bad is patently bullshit propaganda by those fostering that disengagement. Pretending that all the other issues don’t matter in the face of the decision between “not going to stop genocide” and “going to make it worse” is narrow-minded. Again, if someone thinks “I’m not going to vote for genocide” is a justification for “I’m not going to vote against the fascists”, they’re trying to show their virtue with respect to genocide, while not actually caring about anything else except that signalling of virtue. That’s the hypocrisy.
The persistent myth that both parties are equally bad is patently bullshit propaganda by those fostering that disengagement.
I cant agree. The utter lack of pressure on dem leadership to counterbalance AIPAC money is not how “democracy” is supposed to work, and by acting like we have no choice in these things we guarantee a continuance of that lack of choice forever. I’m not up for that.
Good chat, I dont think we are going to come together on this point, but I thank you for the civility and I hope we all come out of this somehow.
Lol
Their faces were made strictly to be eaten by leopards. Their faces are leopard food, and boy howdy, those leopards are gonna feast.
Show me a trump voter who is not a wealthy white male and I’ll show you an idiot.
TIL tax law hinges on a persons color.
Why exclude the wealthy white males?
Mainly because they are members of the class of people that will benefit, directly and indirectly, from a Trump presidency.
Knowing this, they aren’t stupid for voting for the person who will enable the gross accumulation of wealth through the systematic deregulation of industries and privatization of government services. There’s one group of people who will benefit from this: the wealthy (who are disproportionately white and male).
The idiots are people who voted for Trump thinking that his administration will result in a net positive for them socially and economically.
Voting against your interests is dumb; voting inline with your interests is not.
The only white males that will benefit from a trump presidency are billionaires. Anyone else isn’t voting inline with their best interests
… so you might say, wealthy white males.
Not really, “wealthy white males” is a group that could contain millions of people. In no context does “wealthy white males” exclusively mean billionaires.
I think that’s what they meant by wealthy
Because they might just be selfish and evil.
voted for Trump hoping he would bring peace to the Middle East
what
I guess you could argue that total eradication of anyone that Israel hates will bring peace so they were sorta right
Like bringing balance to the force by murdering all the Jedi. Technically correct
We fucking told you so.
Well, after four years of Trump we aren’t going to have to concern ourselves with Palestine, because it’s going to be “more Israel”. Thanks to these dumbasses. The leopards will be obese crime feasting.
Biden admin is currently fully cleansing Gaza and starting on the West Bank. There is little Trump can do worse.
Just wait until Trump disbands NATO and Russia starts turning the rest of the Baltics into Ukraine. Then bets are off as to whether you are even smart enough to realize… oh, never mind.
You sweet summer child. I envy your optimism.
I would say likewise, but that would be rude to Palestinians.
Fun fact, Palestinians on the ground preferred Biden/Harris to Trump.
I need to find the survey again, but yeah, at least in the West Bank, they know that Trump will be an active and willing partner in the genocide.
You lack imagination.
Congrats on getting exactly what you deserve.
