Look, blame me if it makes you feel better, but imo the democrats were trying to play with fire by trapping voters between Trump and their donors and betting that they wouldn’t pick Trump. Then, they went and did it a second time. All I’m saying then and now is that we’d be better off-- both in terms of being further from Nazis AND in terms of winning elections-- not playing with that fire and actually doing a meaningful campaign. It’s like watching your kid touch the stove twice in a row (while telling them not to, mind you) and getting mad at the stove for burning them.

Voters aren’t a stove, man. Voters make choices. Voters chose to ignore fascism.

And hell, the idea that the Dems ‘trapped’ voters between Trump and their donors only really applies in 2024. In 2016 and 2020? The corporate candidate won the primary. Leftists believe there’s some great groundswell of labor support ready to burst forth from the American population, because vague platitudes poll well. But the awful truth is that most Americans are not as radical as we are; most primary voting Americans are only even vaguely aware of the issues, much less deeper systemic problems that need to be addressed.

Harris was some of those, yes, but I think you’re being pretty generous in a few places here.

Not at all. I can quote and link her for the 2024 campaign on all of those issues. For that matter, I remember a time not that long ago when Dems didn’t support several of those positions. But the drumbeat of “Not good enough” and exaggeration of how far right Harris and the Dems were took root as a narrative.

I’m not happy Trump won, and that’s why I think it’s important to hold Democrats accountable for their fuckups that got us here, rather than letting them blame the voters. I think that Not Trump isn’t a compelling message- regardless of whether you or I think it SHOULD be- and that the democrats, much more than a few dorks online, did a lot of work turning off their own base in the last 12 years in exchange for peeling off, idk, like five Republicans.

If you’re looking for blame per-capita, obviously Harris and her campaign are most at fault. But man, at the end of the day, I don’t know if I said it here or in another conversation, the fate of the nation should not rest on whether or not our party produces a ‘good enough’ aristocrat to lead us poor sniveling masses. We have elections. And the American people chose, or chose to be indifferent to, fascism.

You want to measure up which individuals deserve the guillotine? Look at the Dem party, sure. But you want to measure up who has to change if this country is to have a sustainable democracy?

It’s the voters. It’s us.

Upvoted for reasonable conversation btw