We have to agree where we ARE before we stand a chance to agree about what we do from here.
If this “let’s reach across the isle” approach was viable, the present thread would not exist. I’ll go beyond, trumpists watched Jan6 unravel like anyone else and they still voted for him in 2024. So while I’m not advocating for hatred, I would not consider any plan viable that heavily relies on trumpists changing their minds.
St. Luigi tells me that what we have in common is greater than what differentiates us.
The fundamental problem with reaching across the aisle is that the people you’re reaching to aren’t influential in any meaningful capacity.
I’ve got family who voted for Trump. I can visit them, grab dinner, talk politics, reach sensible rational positions that would lead us both to be able to live freely and fairly. And none of it matters. Because neither of us write legislation, enforce the law, or adjudicate disputes.
Meanwhile, I’ve got friends who are working their way up the respective party organs at the local level. And I’ll periodically ask what they think about this or that. They tend to be as annoyed and disgusted as I do (although I’ll often get the “But your team is worse” rejoinder). Then I’ll ask what they are hoping to change. And the simple response I get back is “We just have to be patient until we’re in a better position”. But they’re never in that position. They’re always subservient to some other vulgar asshole. They’re always pandering to some gross freak of a mega-donor. They’re constantly getting hoodwinked by the Elon Musk / Jeff Bezos political turn.
I would not consider any plan viable that heavily relies on trumpists changing their minds.
There are plenty of voters who went from Obama to Trump in 2016 and then from Trump to Biden in 2020 and then from Biden to fucking Jill Stein in 2024 and it didn’t fucking matter. Even when you do get people to change their minds, they don’t get to do anything with the new information.
Vote for Trump or don’t, your district is as gerrymandered as ever. Vote for Beto O’Rourke for Senate or don’t, the SCOTUS isn’t changing hands in our lifetimes because the deck has already been stacked. If Dems retake Congress in 2026, it won’t matter because they’ll still be the same pack of sycophants courting elites in the Tech and Finance Sector that they were back in 2018 and 2006 and 1992. Many of them literally the same people just moldering in office for 40 years or more.
Winning doesn’t mean anything in a system where the outcomes are predetermined. Shaping opinions among the powerless doesn’t mean anything unless you can convince them to actually take back power for themselves.
Right now, its just voting for your favorite politician on American Idol.
people can take back economic power
Run for office.
They weren’t lied to. They had a whole road map for this. They just didn’t think they would also be affected.
They have plausible deniability. Some of them truly think trump doesn’t mean most of what he says because he’s trolling. They have poor critical thinking skills, so they aren’t able to take a lot of information and pick out the truth. That’s also why they copy each other. They want the easy solutions.
They need to be given an appealing way back to sanity. We need them and they need us.
I guess I feel like being a decent human being should be an appealing enough way. Even if they thought he was joking, what he was joking about wasn’t funny. They were fine risking him, at the very least, being their mouth piece. Saying they were lied to removes the responsibility. It doesn’t make them inherently bad people, but they need to admit they made a mistake (if that’s what they truly believe) and want to come back into sanity because it’s right, not because they feel bad that it’s now their eggs and Medicaid that’s being fucked with.
I think maybe that’s the best we could hope for. They can’t take responsibility and now they think its fine to lie and obscure, to gaslight like he does. He’s a public figure who is allergic to accountability and has no shame. Should they be expected to behave better than he does, when he’s like the Teflon man, no consequences stick and he just goes and plays golf, posts pics of himself in a crown as democracy dies?
If anything can make them turn against him and at least fake giving a sh*t or having morality then I’m all for it. Let’s massage their egos and welcome them.
The average person will only spend 5 to 10 minutes a day watching news. The networks they watch are owned by billionaires. I bet most people haven’t heard of project 2025 let alone know what it contains.
Just because you are tuned into politics, doesn’t mean everyone else should be.
This is our curse. We know things, but if we want things to improve, we must also convince the average retarded voter of the things. If we fail, we don’t get to write off half the population.
I guess I’m just tired of always having to force this horse to the river to drink. We’re told to make it more inviting, change the flavor, talk softly, and they still go galloping into manure, flinging it on the rest of us in the process. Then they look back, covered in shit, and go, “I didn’t know the shit would have this much shit. Why didn’t you warn us? Aren’t you at least going to help us clean up?” It’s like weaponized incompetence, but with politics.
but I’m also still incredibly bitter about the current situation. My anger is going to have to die down before I can be reasonable. Which is a me problem at the end of the day.Your feelings are valid. It might be worth taking a break from the politics for a bit. Burnout is real and it is happening to quite a lot people after this last election.
Keep in mind, the amount of conservatives that have shown any regret in the slightest is an extremely small percentage.
The majority of them do not use social media outside of Facebook. They still get their news from Fox and Newsmaxx.
We do not owe them anything. Conservatives who have a conscience need to abandon POLITICAL conservatism. If you want to be socially conservative, go right ahead and do that in the privacy of your own home. But, if you think you’re going to cross the aisle and try to organize with leftists while still holding politically conservative beliefs you wish to eventually see enforced for everyone, then yea, fuck off.
I appreciate any attempt to win these people back. I mean, there’s nothing to lose. But they were not lied to. Trump was honest about the big picture and it’s exactly what they wanted.
These people are lost for democracy and for reason. To stupidity or to plain evil.
Just look how even people like Dick Cheyney saw this coming and tried everything to stop what’s happening now.
He didnt lie about what his plans of action were, but he was telling everybody immigrants and foreign aid are the source of our problems. (Redunctionist i know)
So he did lie. And most people arent equipped for the disinformation age.
Its easy to say they should be smarter than that, but its also easy to say our administration shouldn’t be fabricating reality to further their platform. Blaming the masses seems pretty pointless to me. We all want better for ourselves. Maybe some are more outwardly selfish or racist or whatever but when are we going to learn to not frame 50% of america as inherently evil? Whats the point of watering down our perception of others?
Don’t Americans salute the flag and sing the national anthem every day at school, one of the main reasons being respect to the WW 1 & 2 veterans, who went through hell, and often died, to stop an ideology where some people have worth & dignity and others don’t?
A very conservative Jewish German journalist, Friedman, held an insightful speech in a German state parliament recently, attacking the right wing party that Musk and Trump love so much: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lizOiK1OHf8 (English auto subtitles are of very good quality.)
He is very conservative, been in the conservative party for decades (until they tried to pass an anti immigration law with the right a few weeks ago), strong supporter of Israel, but against Netanyahu’s government. His parents were saved from the Holocaust by Schindler. But he understands the general pattern: Even though they don’t directly attack Jewish people, at least not yet, they don’t accept that everybody is somebody, as he puts it, and that’s where it starts.
They were not lied to though… it was known they were going to do this.
They were all under the impression it wouldn’t happen to them personally. While it is satisfying to say, “I told you so” it’s never helpful. We kinda need to lift up our dumb compatriots if they see the error of electing a huge mistake.
Even when it happens to them it seems like they would still vote for him again, and they are more complaining they were affected than the outcome itself.
And they aren’t going to listen to liberals. Only ones who they will listen to is conservatives so the only way to change their mind is conservatives or false actors pretending to be conservatives to win their vote.
Suffering is better than voting for a lib.
They get their news from other places though, places that say Republicans are doing great things (lying). We saw this coming, but many of them did not.
Yeah, no thanks. These people were fine with all the hateful and cruel shit the Republicans pedal until it affected them. Whether it’s because they themselves are cruel or just morons, that’s up for debate. But either way, I will not consider them an ally in this. They’ve got to change their shitty ways first.
100% this. They didn’t care at all until it affected them directly. They refuse to feel empathy for others so I refuse to feel empathy for them.
Nah, they should both admit that they were wrong and okay with extreme bigotry in the White House.
Meanwhile, the rest of us who will continue organizing with our fellow minorities, trans, and working class folks.
That’s not how you get people to start moving over to our side here mate. Sure, what they supported is pretty fucked, but if you’re not going to offer people a way to crawl out of the hole they dug themselves in, no one will want to leave the hole.
You’re not wrong for wanting that, but in your righteous superiority, you’re not helping to make anything better.
You are misunderstood. The path to crawling out of their hole of conservative bigotry is simple: abandon conservative bigotry.
It is they who want us to compromise our ethics and values. They want us to compromise on immigration, LGBTQ+ rights, and helping the unhoused.
You can’t be a conservative AND join leftists in organizing a better future, sorry. Conservatism is antithetical to progress.
Why in the fuck would I agree to give you people a second chance? Yall openly voted for the racist, criminally convicted sex offender. Fuck you, fuck your farm, and fuck your entire colonist bloodline.
“So anyways, that’s how I made sure the Democrats wouldn’t gain any voters!”
“But I thought you were anti Trump…?”
There’s a quote from Robert A. Heinlein that I like to bring up:
Of what use, then, are the American Communists?
They serve one function extremely useful to you and to the country, so useful that, if there were no Communists, we would almost be forced to create some. They are a reliable litmus paper for detecting real sources of danger to the Republic.
Communism is so repugnant to almost all Americans, when they are getting along even tolerably well, that one may predict with certainty that any social field or group in which the Communists make real strides in gaining members or acceptance of their doctrines, any such spot is in such bad shape from real and not imaginary social ills that the rest of us should take emergency, drastic action to investigate and correct the trouble.
Replace “Communist” with “Conservative” and the quote works the exact same way. People don’t take on awful political views in a total vacuum. Their lives and futures got messed up somehow, and in all probability by vast forces beyond their comprehension, let alone their control. And then they went looking for what felt like real answers, and someone was willing to say to them “I’ve got the solution to your problems.”
On some level, their grievances are real. They just got sold on a lie about what could be done to fix them.
This is gold.
When I was a young teenager I was a communist because I believe in fairness and equality and on paper communism sounds great. Because of this I believed that Russia must just be misunderstood and maligned by the evil capitalist west - 2+2=4. I didn’t have access to a lot of info and my idealism carried me a long way. Then I read about what had happened under communism and in Russia, and it didn’t take long until my views changed entirely.
I think the (not sociopathic or psychotic) majority of MAGA supporters are that way because of what you said - MAGA uses real issues too - a clever mix of lies and truths, and because they believe the ‘fake news’ lies and immerse themselves in echo chambers of MAGA lies.
This has also happened in the UK with the BNP, EDL etc and now reform, which does well mostly in deprived areas (I wonder why?)
There has to be a point when they no longer believe the lies because reality directly contradicts them. But by then will it be too late?
If you are “conservative” in any manner, you’ve been voting for the destruction of both people and society in both word and deed for the past 40 years.
I don’t disagree but, just like the prison system, revenge doesn’t solve any problems. It only makes them worse. The goal should be rehabilitation to improve society, not revenge seeking to make it worse just to make us temporarily feel superior.
At what point do you stop letting the person cause damage in this quest for rehabilitation? If someone knowingly hurts groups of people and is proud of it what is your path there? To rehabilitate someone like that they need empathy, the one thing Republicans lack en mass. That’s the only reason they are upset now, because it finally impacts them. If a person is proud of hurting people and lacks any empathy I don’t see a path to rehabilitation for them. And trying to do so just gives them more slack to cause more harm. We’ve tried talking and reasoning for years, look where we are.
Stop letting them cause damage? We’re “letting” them do that? Sorry, we don’t have any control of them causing damage. Making sure they double down instead of seeing an opportunity to change only makes sure they cause more damage. Insulting them doesn’t make them want to stop.
To rehabilitate someone like that they need empathy, the one thing Republicans lack en mass.
Ironically, this is a response with a total lack of empathy. No, they largely do have empathy. They’re just told that the path that does the most good is the wrong one. They want to protect women, and they’re told that trans women are a threat to them. Sure, it’s lies, but they’re lies that abuse empathy. If they lacked empathy then the messaging wouldn’t target empathy.
We’ve tried talking and reasoning for years, look where we are.
No, we haven’t. Our political class has specifically sought to divide. Sure, they try to get republican support when they need to, though they don’t do it through going left. They do it through maintaining the status quo.
Regardless, it doesn’t matter what “we’ve tried” before. Its about practicality. What does telling them they are bad and can’t move past that do? It only ensures they’ll never be useful. That’s not the way forward. We need to push leftist policy, which they largely do agree with (but only if it’s not called leftist) and invite them to join us. If we don’t then we are stuck where we are, which personally I don’t really care for.
Stop letting them cause damage? We’re “letting” them do that? Sorry, we don’t have any control of them causing damage. Making sure they double down instead of seeing an opportunity to change only makes sure they cause more damage. Insulting them doesn’t make them want to stop.
You seemed to miss the last part of that sentence, which is a very important part of it, the “in this quest for rehabilitation”. Let me give you an example and maybe that will be easier to understand. If you let a person stay at your house because they have no where to live and then steal stuff, that’s not ok. Now you bring them to therapy and explain why it was wrong and they promise to stop. Then you let them stay at your house and they still again. So you talk to them again and tell them they need to stop. They continue to steal. Now, at some point, you trying to reform this person is just an invitation to having your stuff stolen because it’s not getting through. You’re not “letting” them steal, but you are enabling them to do it when you know they most likely will. This is my stance on these people. MAGA supporters have “stolen” from us too many times for me to open my door and let them back in my house.
Ironically, this is a response with a total lack of empathy. No, they largely do have empathy. They’re just told that the path that does the most good is the wrong one. They want to protect women, and they’re told that trans women are a threat to them. Sure, it’s lies, but they’re lies that abuse empathy. If they lacked empathy then the messaging wouldn’t target empathy.
How am I not showing empathy? But moving past that, they don’t largely have empathy… Or do you think deporting people, banning books, telling people they aren’t the gender they claim to be, limiting health care, passing voter suppression, taxing the lower and middle class to fund tax breaks for the rich, you think all that shows empathy? People either know what they’re voting for and have no empathy or they are idiots who enabled horrible things. Either way they are not great people.
No, we haven’t. Our political class has specifically sought to divide. Sure, they try to get republican support when they need to, though they don’t do it through going left. They do it through maintaining the status quo.
I’m getting to the point where this has to be a troll. One side was literally making up insulting nick names for people, banning the press from even covering them, people running as dems them voting republican. Hell there are sitting members of or govt who think Jewish Space Lasers are real and that federal workers don’t deserve a paycheck or a job, they said that out right. The left isn’t doing all that. The left tried to use laws and order to bring Trump in order. Look at what he is doing right now, firing people en mass, putting media people in charge of the FBI and FDA. They aren’t talking to anyone about anything, they are forcing what they want, even if it breaks the law. Trying to act like one side is pure lawless while the other side is trying to use the law is silly.
Regardless, it doesn’t matter what “we’ve tried” before. Its about practicality. What does telling them they are bad and can’t move past that do? It only ensures they’ll never be useful. That’s not the way forward.
Dude, wake up. People are losing their jobs because of Trump and they still think it’s for the good of America. These are cult members. They are not interested in compromise or discussion, literally look what is going on in the govt right now and people still support it. Trying to appeal to them is like trying to appeal to Hitler in WW2, it doesn’t work. You’re the group in WW2 that thought Hitler could be reasoned with and kept trying to appease him. It doesn’t always work, this is one of those times.
We need to push leftist policy, which they largely do agree with
Out of touch doesn’t even begin to come close to addressing this… Holy crap man. Do you follow politics at all?
invite them to join us
Ahh yes, invite them to sabotage any plans we have. Great idea. Super naive, but great idea.
If we don’t then we are stuck where we are, which personally I don’t really care for.
No, we need to let them know that what they want and are pushing isn’t acceptable. This idea of you have of “just push leftist policies” ignores the how. There’s a reason why people call themselves “Forever Trumpers”, they will follow him to the end. This is not a group of people that can be reasoned with. Look at some of the street interviews of these people, they don’t care about policy, they care about their side winning, fully stop. That and marginalizing people. Those are the only policies the right has advertised and pushed, and the voters love them for it. That’s not a group looking to change their mind, that’s a group that needs to be cast out and shamed.
Let me give you an example and maybe that will be easier to understand. If you let a person stay at your house because they have no where to live and then steal stuff, that’s not ok. Now you bring them to therapy and explain why it was wrong and they promise to stop. Then you let them stay at your house and they still again. So you talk to them again and tell them they need to stop. They continue to steal. Now, at some point, you trying to reform this person is just an invitation to having your stuff stolen because it’s not getting through.
This is not analogous to this situation at all. They will keep doing what they’re doing. They aren’t invited to do it by us. The only way to make them stop is to get them to join us. You can’t just kick them out like you could someone staying at your house.
The equivalent situation would be something like being locked in a house with someone. Your best bet is to convince them to be better. It isn’t to turn them into an enemy because you’re stuck with them.
How am I not showing empathy?
Because you aren’t trying to understand how they can come to their position empethetically. They have empathy. It’s just being abused. You’re trying to turn them into some monstrous “other” that you don’t have to consider where they came from.
Or do you think deporting people, banning books, telling people they aren’t the gender they claim to be, limiting health care, passing voter suppression, taxing the lower and middle class to fund tax breaks for the rich, you think all that shows empathy?
These are actions, not reasons. Murder is generally bad, right? However, if I murder someone to save hundreds of other people, maybe not anymore, right? They’re told, for example, that immigrants are killing, raping, or doing whatever to Americans. They’re told this is a rampant massive issue. They want to protect the innocent who are being harmed. They come to a bad action through an empathetic thought process. You not seeing how that can be done is you not having empathy for them.
One side was literally making up insulting nick names for people, banning the press from even covering them, people running as dems them voting republican.
I’m not discussing republican elected officials. They’re the ones misleading republican voters to do evil. They are almost universally bad. The average republican is not. They’re mostly misguided.
You’re the group in WW2 that thought Hitler could be reasoned with and kept trying to appease him.
Again, I’m not talking about the leaders. I’m the person who would fight against Hitler, but wouldn’t turn down the help of someone else who wanted to fight against him but voted for him in the past.
Out of touch doesn’t even begin to come close to addressing this… Holy crap man. Do you follow politics at all?
Most people want what’s best for them and their family. They’re told socialism or whatever is evil, and they believe it. When the policies are polled without telling them what it is, people agree with them. Most Republicans want to legalize Marijuana, for example. The elected officials don’t. Don’t think what republican officials say or do represents their voters, because it often doesn’t when polled. They support workers. They generally support people being allowed to do what they want freely. However, they’re told there’s a great evil they need to defend against, and that they’re doing the right thing by fighting against the left.
There’s a reason why people call themselves “Forever Trumpers”, they will follow him to the end.
These are not most republican voters.
Look at some of the street interviews of these people, they don’t care about policy, they care about their side winning, fully stop.
Again, these aren’t most republican voters. Most republican voters are sitting at home and trying to survive, like everyone else.
They’re told they’re fighting the good fight. They’re told there’s evil that’s trying to harm innocent people. All of this is done so the elites can keep fucking them and us. Telling them they have to continue to be our enemy because they once we’re is stupid. It’s a waste of everyone’s time.
Making enemies has never helped anyone. If you don’t want to ask them to join, fine. Just don’t say anything. No one needs you to pop in and tell them their pieces of shit when they’re thinking about voting against Republicans.
Nah… fuck all that.
To be fair, they’ve also been lied to for longer than that, sometimes by their own parents who too we’re lied to.
“conservatives” globally have been given more grace and caused more destruction outside of any groups other than literal nazi’s and fascists, of which they are the gateway drug. We put up with them and they offer almost nothing constructive to society.
They aren’t idiots, and if they were even a bit intellectually curious, they would know better.
Fuck them, fuck fascists, and fuck this sublemmy. It should be removed. The time for grace is over. The gracious that has been offered to conservative movements has been trampled upon repeatedly and perpetually bad this bad faith ideology.
Yes let’s round them up in the camps For reeducation.
Derp
Tbf, that reeducation would realistically look like your local middle & high school curriculum 😂
I mean, maybe it would look like your middle or high school. My middle and high schools taught me that the civil war wasn’t about slavery. Like if you circled “slavery” on the multiple choice “what was the civil war about” test question, it would be marked wrong. This was in state-funded public school too, not some ultra-conservative private school or homeschooling. And that’s only one example of the conservative propaganda that was fed to us in school. Some of the most conservative people I know were straight-A students. For people who live in liberal areas, it can be difficult to even comprehend how deep the conservative lies go, and how soon they start.
Saying “just send them back to school” is reductionist, because they did pay attention in school. They simply never questioned what the school had taught them, and took the info at face value. And that is honestly a large part of conservative conditioning; Don’t question the authorities. Don’t question the church. Don’t question the leaders. Don’t question your teachers. If someone is a higher authority or social status than you, you take them at their word. A child’s place is to be seen, not heard. If someone has been raised to never question authority, can they really be blamed for failing to do so when in school? Conservative ideology is rooted in conformity. The nail that sticks out gets hammered down. And questioning conservative authority is historically rewarded with a big fucking hammer.
Mr. Pink doesn’t
tipwork with fascists
Sure, you may want me to be beaten to death, but at least you admitted eggs aren’t cheap now, this makes us allies.
What’s funny is I have no idea if this is written from a red or blue perspective
Only one side wishes extreme violence on the other. It doesn’t go both ways.
Not anymore after the last election. I’m done with fucking kid gloves.
NAZI LIVES DON’T MATTER
Wait, I don’t know which one you mean. Honestly.
You are deluded.
If the leftists got their way, everyone would have Healthcare and a greater standard of living. Left and right, rich or poor.
If the conservatives got their way, leftists would either be killed or put into camps or attempted to be deported. There are dozens of examples of elected officials in power calling the entirety of the left pedophiles, scum, vermin, demons, and the enemy. The amount of open violent hostility that occurs on a daily basis is staggering. Churches work into their sermons to tell their sheep about how evil the democrats are.
It goes one way.
Okay I guess I’m not on a side, I just want to see the deaths of fascists and nazis. Does that fit your narrative still?
The only people worse than the nazis and the fascists are the sympathizers who only want to play nice with them, or get out of their way.
This is self defense against what I described. Not sure why you’re being hostile when eyes on the same side.
This doesn’t work with cultists. Any reasonable republican bailed on the party with Trump.
God shut up
Did I strike a nerve?
Sorry i just reinstalled this app today after a mental health break and forgot how insufferable everyone is. Just need more time to reacclimate
The time for solidarity has passed and this bullshit “sowwy” crap some cons are trying to put out there is disingenuous at best. No, will fix everything again and y’all will get the benefit again then go right back to being shitty Republicans again. Fuck all conservatives.
Wow this thread is kinda fucked. Im way more left than most to the point that i think supporting biden/harris leading up to the last election was a mistake, although i would’ve begrudgingly voted harris when it came down to it. But this is just vindictive and unproductive. How about “lets both admit the corporations and their stooges have fucked us for way too long and come together to stop them” rather than some stupid childish finger pointing shit. Like i get the rage, but keep it pointing at the ones who are actively fucking you over.
It’s unproductive to try working with people who, for the past few decades, were actively voting to get rid of my friends and family because they didn’t fit White Heteronormative Christian Right America’s box.
They put all of their faith into Trump. They literally believed God sent him to save America from the Democrats and liberals trying to “destroy” this country.
I’m sorry, but I do not want to put my trust in the hands of racist bigots who can easily be lead astray by their own greed and prejudices.
Yeah yeah. We already get that “both sides bad” argument. You’re clearly ignoring that the Republicans are actively destroying our government, our rights, and our access to necessary infrastructure and services while giving even more power to corporations. One is orders of magnitude worse. So trying to equate the two parties is insultingly misleading.
This place has become a self-righteous circle jerk with no means of spreading the information we believe in as they’re hostile to anybody that isn’t exactly the same.
So if all use leftists are here and all the right wingers are on Twitter, then nobody is going to learn anything new as we have become our own echo chambers.
Oh no! How will I know what right wingers think? That would mean I need to open a newspaper! Or turn on a television! Or spend an evening with my mother in law’s new boyfriend!
Fuck off with your echo chamber bullshit.
I know what they want. They want to hurt me and mine. And I’m not going to roll over.
So you don’t believe us all being in echo chambers is going to make the situation worse?
Do you believe that you can’t get any right wingers to turn left wing? What about vice versa?
I couldn’t give a fuck what they think you pleb, I am interesting in trying to get people to open their eyes and leave the right and come join us on the left.
Many of those people have been lied to, just as much as we have and I believe given the opportunity we would be able to reason people out of their mindsets to find a common enemy which is elites.
Edit: There is a YouTuber who makes left leaning content and he has said on numerous videos how he was drawn into the alt-right pipeline and he was smart enough to learn that wasn’t right and that they’re not spreading truth. He’s called JimmyTheGiant. If he is able to be taken from the right to the left then that means other people are and they’re only going to make that leap if we talk with them. Sure some of them are lost causes, but I want to focus on the people who we can reach.
Unless you just want to hang around here and we can all wank each other off a how much more superior we are because of our beliefs whilst never actually increasing our numbers because nobody wants to interact with the perceived other side.
Funny how you can now what all republicans want, but I’m sure you would take issue if they said all leftists want the exact same thing.
I love how the comment degenerates into madness slowly like a bad copy pasta.
Geez. The being lied to wasn’t really very secretive, it was out in the open for a very long time.
This is a very weird apology for just being stupid.
They weren’t lied to by the right. They were lied to by themselves.
Themselves are the problem and one cannot not remove one from the other.
Those themselves will never be our allies. They will slink right back to their comforting lies at the first convenient moment, betray us, and laugh about it.
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