California Gov. Gavin Newsom signed a new law on Wednesday that aims to stop other states from prosecuting doctors and pharmacists who mail abortion pills to patients in places where the procedure is banned. California already has a law protecting doctors who provide abortions from out-of-state judgments.
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Also, more to the point, citizens who don’t want abortions can just… not ask for abortion pills. Like, that’s not that hard.
Anyone who reads my full comment will understand I’m pro-choice but I understand the need to preface comments like this. Otherwise I’m repeatedly downvoted after a sentence.
So:
I am pro-choice.
I get what you’re saying, but unfortunately if you’re looking at this through the catholic worldview/lense of thought, the doctrine they were raised to believe is the only right way to live, so it’s the same as someone saying to you “citizens who don’t want to murder can just… not murder people. Like, that’s not that hard. We don’t need laws against murdering people though”
Required reading: “The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion”
Thanks for the preface, but the ending is exaggerated. Abortion does not equal murder. It causes no harm to society or others, unlike murder or guns. It would be more accurate to say it’s like gay marriage. If you don’t agree, don’t get gay married.
That’s his whole point though. To a lot of Christians, abortion literally is comparable to murder. It doesn’t make sense, but that’s just how they see it. That’s why the arguments up thread don’t work on them.
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Yes, thank you.
Growing up without the Catholic dogma and worldview thrust upon you from birth (and consequently playing a part of every action you ever make {unless you lose your faith}, and many thoughts you think) and trying to use the argument that abortion does NOT equal murder is like arguing with an alien. Because from a personal worldview lense, they absolutely do believe abortion = murder with every fiber of their being. It’s not enough to just say “no it’s not” or make really any argument that leads to that debate. It even affects the views of many ex-catholics who have religious trauma and have been through extensive therapy for it.
No, to you and I, abortion is not murder. But trying to argue that is equal to them arguing to people like us (I assume) that gay people are not just, existing and normal, and not making a conscious decision to be gay. They think it’s due to trauma and all gay people are mentally ill and can be cured. However there’s no curing necessary. But they’ll argue until they’re blue in the face that it is. It’s the same level of worldview solidification.
They were trying to explain the religious view. For those groups abortion is murder of an unborn child. It doesn’t matter that there’s no harm to the society - they see it as a harm to the child. Comparing it to murder was spot on, because that’s exactly how those people see it.
You say it causes no harm to society but they’ll argue it causes immense harm to God’s plan, or whatever. They can also point to the plummeting birth rates which are now almost below the level to maintain the American system. It’s a problem that is being debated amongst the highest members of the house and Congress. Of course the reason isn’t abortion and is much more complex and societal and due to uncertainty about the environment and wanting to raise children when the parents are a decade a way from buying a house on two full-time incomes now and how much worse it’s going to get for their hypothetical children.
My point is you have to see it through their worldview, and understand how they believe it affects them, now only see it through yours.
Birth rates are a much smaller problem for the future of the American economy than wealth inequality.
I think you’re zeroing in on an example when it was meant to be an overarching example.
But to continue with your argument: if the workers aren’t being born, the class war will get seriously real, and that’s the last thing those at the top of the wealth inequality pyramid want.
Some people must have crippling abortion addictions. The kind of people that are like “I love being pregnant” and then soon after “Stairs my beloved ❤️” repeated indefinitely.
Heya, it sounds like they’re trying to influence matters of state. TAX THEM.
Catholics are also masters of protecting pedophiles.
The funny thing is the Bible says life begins at the first breath like 4 times, and has an abortion potion/ritual guide.
Could you share which verses of the Bible. I’m not doubting, this is just so funny I want to see it for myself
“Ideological colonization” makes it sound like the law encourages California doctors to leave the state, commit what’s considered a crime in another state, but then be shielded from prosecution. According to the article, the law does not apply in such cases.
California just wants to protect their doctors from the crusades of far right wackos. Good for them. Red states are doing everything they can to alienate people like doctors and teachers. It’s a race to the bottom.
Also the citizens very much do want abortion, that’s why they’re having one
It’s simply projection, which is all conservatives know how to do.
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Well you see the catholic church doesn’t have much experience with unwanted pregnancies, since they mostly stick to diddling kids.
Did they forget about the Jesuits lol
The California Catholic Conference opposed the law, arguing the state is “engaging in ideological colonization against states and citizens that do not want abortion.”
“Denying the legitimate interest of other states to protect unborn children and public health is a dangerous precedent,” the association wrote in a letter to lawmakers earlier this year.
The absolute fucking gall of christians, holy shit…
They’re acting like California is going to personally mail these to every texans door.
We can only hope…
May improve Texas
…ideological colonization…
Wow, that’s rich, coming from an institution that historically shipped zealots around the world to proselytize.
And not to mention killing soulless savages (indigenous peoples) under the blessing of god.
I was born into Christianity and took religious classes in school. They never talked about the weapon blessings. I learned about it on the campaign of anno 1404. I looked it up and was shocked. Conveniently avoided that huh?
since when did these religious nutjobs want to “protect” anyone? Guns, and car accidents are major killers of kids, when I see some action there from these liars I’ll believe they’re just honest dumb people who think zygotes are people. Until then these crocodile christians can shove it.
I can never fully decide whether I think they’re proud of their hypocrisy and cruelty, or whether they’re just too stupid to see it. They’re such shitty people that both are distinct possibilities.
And anyway, wtf is “ideological colonization”? The language these far right crazies keep coming up with keeps getting more and more like that fake legalese that sovereign citizens use to try to sound smart.
Lol, if the citizens really didn’t want it, then they wouldn’t be ordering the pills now would they?
“The California Catholic Conference opposed the law, arguing the state is “engaging in ideological colonization against states and citizens that do not want abortion.””
- Oh fuck right off. What’s that? You don’t like it when someone has an ideology forced on them?
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These are just tiny white bullets
Oh lol! Great comment!
I would think that if they are sent by USPS then the states would not be able to legally intercept them. USPS is not responsible for enforcing state laws and there are some pretty serious laws protecting the privacy and integrity of your parcels and mail.
risk getting pulled over for driving pregnant
Is that not allowed?
Not without your husband’s permission it’s not. This is Texas we’re talking about here.
I’m sorry, what? A pregnant woman can’t leave the state without husband’s permission? Also, what happens if she’s a single mum, or she’s not married? Or a widow or husband is deployed… I mean… what?
Other commenter was being sarcastic. But it’s the road they appear to be heading.
At the moment if a pregnant woman leaves the state they may suspect it’s for abortion purposes. Neighbours can even report if they think someone may have aborted.
In The Handmaid’s Tale, right before Gilead takes over the US, women have to have their husbands sign off on their birth control refills. Then they all get fired from their jobs and all their money in the bank gets transferred to their husbands.
I know it’s a tired cliche to keep bringing up the Handmaid’s Tale, but it just doesn’t seem that far out there anymore. Especially the part where everyone just goes along with the changes and learns to live with them. Margaret Atwood based everything in the book off of real events in wold history. So there’s that.
Nothing says “freedom and democracy” like being reported by your fucking neighbors for refusing to be “one of us”.
The California Catholic Conference opposed the law, arguing the state is “engaging in ideological colonization against states and citizens that do not want abortion.”
Are … are they trying to say CA doctors are mailing abortion pills to people who didn’t ask for them? What does this statement mean? Maybe what they meant was something like: “We do not believe women have a basic right to control their body, whether those women are Catholic or not, and that control should rest with the government of the state they reside in.”
No. They are saying that CA doctors are mailing abortion pills to states where abortion/abortion pills have been outlawed. In other words the citizens of TX voted against abortion on a large scale, and CA is performing ‘ideological colonization’ by mailing to anyone in TX who does want them, since the majority do not.
Quite a thing for the Catholic church to bring up ideological colonization though… 🗿
But … they don’t mail the pills randomly. A person in the state where it is outlawed is requesting something from a state where it is not.
I don’t see how the CA doctors are in any way colonizing anything.
I don’t see how the CA doctors are in any way colonizing anything.
They’re not. At least not in the majority rational view. That’s just some old mad folks in the Catholic church thinking so and feeling the need to say something.
There’s actually a LOT of interesting info on the article…For example they ban Facebook from giving info to law enforcement from other states about Cali related abortion pill mail/doctors even if it’s a legitimate judge signed subpoena. I believe that covers investigations including conversations between two individuals about getting an abortion. California is really saying “Get fucked Texas and similar states. We The People say so.”
I understand, that’s why I was trying to translate their statement into reality-based words. I thought you were defending their position based on your response.
I think I somehow missed this part, in the very end of your first comment, and if I hadn’t missed it I probably wouldn’t have commented… but hey, it sparked a good discussion.
whether those women are Catholic or not, and that control should rest with the government of the state they reside in."
👍
ah, I thought you were trying to understand if the Catholic church folks that made the argument thought they were being mailed to random people so I was just explaining what I thought they meant. We’re on the same page.
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The majority oppose abortion? I’d love to see whatever stats or information you have that shows that.
I can’t take an article where catholics are accusing others of ideological colonization seriously. I hate cringy atheists as much as the next guy but these morons genuinely need to fuck off already. Thank god I don’t live in NA anymore, seems it’s all just going downhill.
edgelord atheists make a lot more sense when you consider them as an immune system overreaction to something terrible that refuses to go away.
like how many norwegian edgelord atheists have you seen? weirdly they all seem to come from turboreligious places…
The “religious” version of the edgy atheist is the satanic temple, who since the overturning of Roe has made abortion one of their sacred sacraments. They’re good at muddying up the laws regarding religious freedoms that some states only want to offer to christians.
As far as I can tell, they don’t really believe in Satan and are open about that. It seems that they just use the idea of Satan to point out the hypocrisy in Christian politics when they say they’re for religious freedoms.
Because it’s the California Catholics I’m going to assume it’s part of the larger trend of Latine folks saying that queer culture and feminism and other social causes in Latine communities is a result of “gringo colonialism”
Some of these psychos go from zero to death threats with so much as a mention of that blasted X, which Latine queer communities came up with first!
There’s some poor latine enbie with a flair for math stuffs living in a permanent state of traumatized horror because of these machismo lunatics.
Yet another reason to stop expecting Democrats to protect you.
I don’t expect them to protect shit, I just hope they will fuck up things more slowly than the Republicans (and generally they do).
