I don’t like smartphones. I use a dumbphone.
But this is a wonderful initiative.
If they just didn’t drop the headphone jack.
How else would they push their mediocre reviewed Bluetooth headsets and ear buds?
my phone has a headphone jack, my phone before that had a headphone jack. Wanna guess how often I used it? Zero because I have decent bluetooth headphones
I use my backup headphones when my Bluetooth headset has run out of battery
Okay? You’re not the one asking for a headphone jack tho??? Pointless comment.
I use mine. Bluetooth is great and all, but it’s still not the same quality as a hard-line. And they also run out of batteries.
my phone has a headphone jack, my phone before that had a headphone jack. Wanna guess how often I used it? Zero because I have decent bluetooth headphones
That’s just like your opinion man
My last phone had a headphone jack. Wanna guess how often I used it? All the time! And that was despite having decent Bluetooth headphones.
I loved wearing my cans when mowing the lawn because it cut down on the noise, and I also used them when laying in bed since they had much better audio. I would use my Bluetooth headphones the rest of the time because they were more convenient.
My new phone doesn’t have headphone jack, and I’m super bummed.
So now you still do the exact same things but with a little dongle, right?
USB-C to headphone jack dongles suck. You lose them easily, you can’t charge your phone if they’re connected and if you disconnect your headphones the device still behaves as if they’re plugged in. It’s so much less convenient and on the other hand there’s just no downside to having a dedicated headphone jack, so I still don’t get why they’re no longer including them.
You lose them easily
Just leave them connected to the headphones.
you can’t charge your phone if they’re connected
Dongles with an additional usb port exist.
if you disconnect your headphones the device still behaves as if they’re plugged in.
Again, leave the dongle connected to the headphones, not the phone.
It’s so much less convenient
It is less convenient, but I’d argue not by all that much. More importantly it’s not any less convenient for the vast majority who are already only using Bluetooth.
there’s just no downside to having a dedicated headphone jack
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It’s an additional, and to most people superfluous, point for water ingress. Water damage is the most common type of damage in phones.
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It takes up space which could be utilised otherwise, like with a slightly larger battery or larger speakers or camera modules.
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It’s an additional part which needs to be manufactured, stocked, installed and purchased. Extra cost which only benefits a few. This is especially important to Fairphone in particular because they don’t use off-the-shelf components and promise to supply replacement parts pretty much indefinitely. I.e. Fairphone would have to design a custom module and then have that module in stock and manufactured specifically for them for the lifetime of each of their devices. That’s not a trivial expense.
It’s an additional […] point for water ingress.
the whole back panel is a big point of water ingress when that is not glued shut hard
It takes up space which could be utilised otherwise, like with a slightly larger battery or larger speakers or camera modules.
I never needed the additional camera modules, and there were phones with single camera module that made very nice images. the jack is also often at the top of the device where the battery doesn’t reach, but in my phone there’s also enough place for it between the bottom and the battery for a jack connector. in a fairphone
It’s an additional part which needs to be manufactured, stocked, installed and purchased. Extra cost which only benefits a few.
exact same opinion about multiple camera modules. nobody really needs them.
I can’t have them connected to my headphones all the time because I connect headphones to other devices that all have a fucking headphone jack.
- It’s an additional, and to most people superfluous, point for water ingress. Water damage is the most common type of damage in phones.
I’ve had watertight phones with a headphone jack over a decade ago.
- It takes up space which could be utilised otherwise, like with a slightly larger battery or larger speakers or camera modules.
Yes. Anything you add to a phone is a tradeoff. No shit. These points are what is usually used to justify the lack of a jack. But maybe, just maybe, they don’t save as much money as they make with selling wireless headphones and this is just an excuse? Especially the big companies like Apple or Samsung that sell their own peripherals? And this whole thing is just an excuse to sell overpriced gadgets that need to be replaced every few years because of their batteries? Maybe, just maybe, it’d be valid if consumers still had a choice and could pick phones with or without a jack and would have to pay for the luxury of using decent headphones with a few milliamperehours?
- It’s an additional part which needs to be manufactured, stocked, installed and purchased. Extra cost which only benefits a few. This is especially important to Fairphone in particular because they don’t use off-the-shelf components and promise to supply replacement parts pretty much indefinitely. I.e. Fairphone would have to design a custom module and then have that module in stock and manufactured specifically for them for the lifetime of each of their devices. That’s not a trivial expense.
Manufacturing a phone is not a trivial expense. Removing features is a business decision and a headphone jack costs money but doesn’t earn any whereas they can produce more cheaply without one. I get it. It’s just that doing so requires you to buy and use battery powered headphones that are much less sustainable than traditional magnets tied to a cable. How a company that lives off its promise to safe the world jumps on that wagon is a miracle to me. Companies that remove headphones don’t care about audio quality (which is why Sony still produces phones with audio jacks, I guess) or sustainability. Which is odd for a company like fp.
requires you to buy and use battery powered headphones
This is simply false though, we’d agreed that you are required to buy and use a dongle, and that this is an added inconvenience. But you are not required to switch to wireless headphones and your old cans haven’t suddenly become useless. People still have a choice between wired and wireless, wired has just become a little less convenient, that’s all. I completely agree with you that people shouldn’t go out buying new gadgets if their old stuff is still functional, but you can just continue using your old headphones if you get a new phone if you buy a dongle with it. Inconvenient yes, but not the end for wired headphones.
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Yup. If anything, they should add a second USB-C connector. Much more versatile and you can still charge your phone if one of them dies.
These flaky, but simultaneously bulky headphone connectors need to die. They’re inferior in pretty much every way imaginable.
Every day the bait gets lower and lower effort
Quickly checking if you’re an actual human or just a bot I came across this comment of yours:
I have blocked 264 users, 9 communities and 4 instances and it’s made Lemmy much better for me toxicity wise. Whenever a debate gets toxic or someone starts just insulting or discussing in bad faith or I just get a bad vibe from them - I block.
Guess I’ll take your advice then.
I’m going to lose that dongle. You say further down that I can just leave them connected, but I use my headphones with more than my phone (laptop, desktop), and those other devices have a headphone jack. Leaving it plugged in to my phone sucks too, for obvious reasons.
I don’t care about water ingress. I’m happy to give up water resistance and have a slightly thicker phone if it means I get a headphone jack, bonus points if it’s easier to open the phone for repairs.
Ok I use my wired headphones
I just have a dap that can receive bluetooth. More battery life, drives literally anything to very loud, 4.4mm out and can hold it’s own music library and play it without eating phones battery or memory.
I used mine all the time because I hate using bluetooth even though I have expensive bluetooth headphones, I have now cancelled you out
Wanna know how many times I played a piano in the past 20 years?
Zero. Clearly they shouldn’t exist.
No, but maybe you should re-gift it to someone who does…
You’re not making sense.
Your position was that someone else is wrong to desire audio jacks, because you personally don’t need one after spaffing money on some Bluetooth earphones.
My point – which I thought was very obvious, but apparently you missed it – was that just because you don’t see the value of something doesn’t mean others don’t or that it shouldn’t exist.
I don’t have a piano, and I don’t know why you think I do.
My entire metaphor is that I don’t play or have a piano, but I recognise that it’s stupid for me to discourage others from having them solely because I personally don’t have or want one.
I’m a bit confused by your metaphor then (and thanks for the constructive insults, brings me back to the old reddit days…), since why take issue with something you dont own or use in the first place? Is the piano the headjack, or is it the bluetooth?
I didn’t insult you, I remarked that you didn’t appear to have understood my comment, and by the looks of it you still don’t.
Apologies if you’re upset by my comment. That was not my intent. I was just pointing out the absurdity of your judgemental comment.
I’m not the one taking issue with something I don’t own. That’s my entire point. You are discouraging someone from wanting something just because you personally don’t value it.
The piano is the headphone jack.
You don’t need a headphone jack, and feel the need to disparage others who do. “I don’t use a headphone jack, so you shouldn’t want a phone with one.”
Similarly, I don’t need a piano. However, I don’t go around telling people they shouldn’t want/play one, because I recognise that the things I want in my life are different to the things other people want in theirs.
It’s more like a new keyboard comes out and people all complain that it’s not a piano.
Boo this man!
…are they booing me, or are they booing headphones?
You. They’re booing you.
Help me, Smithers!
😔
My decent Bluetooth headphones have the option to plug in a headphone cable to use them wired. I use it occasionally so I can reduce audio latency, which can be useful with gaming…and essential with rhythm games.
This is fine if you don’t care about having the best audio quality and lowest latency possible.
not just that. with a jack, you can use your phone as a perfect mic for your PC. its also better in terms of privacy as you don’t blast “IM HERE” signals that every other shop has a tracking device for logging them. I would guess majority of bluetooth audio devices don’t even support mac address randomization
I would guess majority of bluetooth audio devices don’t even support mac address randomization
Wouldn’t that be a nightmare for pairing? The device wakes and tries to connect to the last device it was paired to, only to find unknown vendors
mac randomization is a defined thing in the BLE standard (afaik bluetooth classic does not have it, but maybe that changed in BT 5.1?). It’s not truly random, it involves cryptography so that paired devices can recognize each other in the end
Ah interesting, thanks for context
I feel like latency only matters if you’re realtime gaming. In any other situation the video just syncs to the audio.
As for quality AptX-HD is decent for low bitrates even at 24-bit, and LDAC remains excellent for anything higher.
Unless you’re listening to high-res FLAC (in which case, god help your earphone impedance when listening to normal songs), I doubt the loss is audible
Good for you.
Ah, that’s a dealbreaker for me
That’s cool. Let me know when it gets support for GrapheneOS and finds it’s headphone jack again.
Big red flag:
Doesn’t that basically equate to “yep, this is an android phone?”
Yup. My current one is dying and I’m using it almost always wired to a charger or battery. I don’t care how badly they try to waste my battery, I’m not buying a new Android phone ever. If this one dies, I’m prepared to not use a phone until there’s a reasonably priced Linux phone.
Just replace the battery then. Most phone shops have the ability and tools to do it in about an hour to 3 hours.
I’m afraid. Lol phones with non replaceable batteries suck.
They are replaceable, it just takes some tools and work, both of which you can get at the phone repair shop.
What a non sequitur.
GrapheneOS doesn’t have AI crap.
I’d just install another OS to begin with. But again, I’d reaaally like it to be GrapheneOS. And then again, Pixels also come with all that crap (and much more) enabled by default.
Graphene doesn’t. The way I see it is like buying a laptop with pre-installed Windows, and replacing the OS.
… That’s because it comes with vanilla android, unless you buy the e/OS version or flash it yourself
The answer is likley never, GOS devs dont trust Fairphone devs (due to poor security practices) and Fairphone devs are unwilling (in some cases unable) to meet the extremely high standards for GOS.
I really wish this was available in the US. I’ve found myself able to hang on to devices longer and longer. So this would be perfect. I’m only charging my battery to 80% and discharging it to 30% before charging it again just to prolong the life of the battery because that’s the first thing that dies on most devices. Having a user replaceable battery again would be an absolute godsend.
This is a 50% DoD and is considered best possible practice to prevent lithium-ion dendrite formation.
Updoot for good advice.
Proof:
If you don’t mind clarifying, what do you mean by DoD?
Depth of Discharge, sorry – 0 to 100 would be a 100% depth (the entire battery), 30 to 80 is 50%.
What kind of software creates this plot?
Looks like AccuBattery.
It’s AccuBattery
Missed opportunity to call it “AkkuBattery” for all the dual language pun enjoyers out there 🎩
ThanCC!
This is a 50% DoD and is considered best possible practice to prevent lithium-ion dendrite formation.
Not entirely true. “Best possible” would be left plugged in and charged to 50%. Next best would be 49-51%. Then 48-52% and so on.
Also it’s not that difficult or expensive to swap a battery and not really worth the stress, in my opinion.
Well, you are absolutely correct. A 1-2% DoD is something for like, the Voyager Probe though, not a smartphone :)
The really nice thing is that the larger phone batteries get the more you get to use at 50% depth of discharge. My phone is 5,000 mAh and so I get to use 2,500 mAh of it. Once average phones start getting 5,500 mAh, that will mean I will be able to use 2,750 mAh. 250mAh may not sound like a lot, but it can go a decently long way.
What did you actually gain here? With my Pixel 7 it looks almost the same with 3.1% capacity loss per year without taking any special care of my battery. Is my phone an outlier or does it just not matter? And I almost exclusively charge with wireless.
I charge wired (high speed, 18-22W). Wireless is known to be a lot slower and theoretically gentler on the battery.
I also use the phone heavily, like a computer, I’m a “power user”, so my battery thrashing is higher than average.
Us having the same durability lost on our engine despite me driving double the miles is a good analogy.
To my knowledge wireless charging is harder on the battery because of the heat it produces.
I’m interested in this one also. I like the look of it. Currently a long-time Pixel user, but I’m open to other options. It will take a truly good camera to pull me away, though.
Sometimes last year Marquez Brownlee (I think it was him, I don’t think it was Dave2D) was conducting a blind test among his audience which Photos they thought looked best. Some top brands were jumping up and down from one test scenario to another but the Fairphone ended up in the midfield constantly. True, that’s not a glowing recommendation of the camera but at least an insurance that one doesn’t get utter trash either.
Do you happen to know whether this was before or after the camera update? The camera has been noticeably improved at some point.
Not off the top of my head, sorry.
Do you recall which ones scored the highest?
iirc, it’s typically the pixel a series, normal pixel series, the most expensive iPhone, and the Samsung flagship (or smth like that)
The Pixels tend to give really punchy contrast which a lot of people like
Not off the top of my head but I distinctly remember that the Pixel A phone scored higher than the flagship Pixel model.
I would need to look the video up but I’m also between appointments, so I can comment for a bit but not do research.
could habe been this one?
That’s honestly one thing I’m really glad about. I’m legally blind, so pictures don’t honestly matter that much to me, and so I could really give a fuck less what the camera looks like as long as it functions well enough to act as a magnifier for me to read small print on things occasionally.
Like if I go pick up one of those frozen pizzas from the store and I need to read the box to know what temperature to set the oven to and how long to put it in. I use the camera to just zoom in on the print and read it and then leave the camera.
the camera is average. Don’t buy this phone for the camera
Murena does ship them to the USA, but with /e/OS preinstalled, which is great if you’re into privacy and degoogling. I don’t know how it works with US carriers though. Feel free to ask them on their forum, community.e.foundation
/e/OS doesnt interest me because its far to iphone(esk) in design. Though i might be able to flash LineageOS instead. I also want nothing to do with Google Play Services or even Micro-G. I even think Micro-G is too much of a compromise and won’t use it. If an app won’t run because Google Play Services doesn’t exist, then I don’t run that app. If I don’t get notifications because Google Play Services doesn’t exist, then I don’t get notifications. So be it.
its far to iphone(esk) in design
It’s far too iPhone-esque in design
“It’s” has the apostrophe because it’s “it” + "is
“too” has two o’s when there’s an excess of something. More stuff = more o’s!
“esque” is uh…just how it’s spelt
iPhone capitalization is just their branding.
I only commented to help with “esque”, but saw other things I could help with. Knowledge is power!
It’s pretty open hardware I’m sure it would be very easy to flash it to Fairphone’s OS
I don’t like their default launcher either, it’s indeed very iphon-y. I just installed another launcher and that’s it. It’s essentially Android so that’s no problem. I also disabled microg entirely, which is possible.
They ship fairphone 4 US, but not 5
Oh dang. That’s true.
Are you using something to automate that? If so what? Does it require root?
So my device settings have the functionality built in to stop charging automatically when the battery hits a certain percentage. And so I have set it to stop charging automatically at 81%. I also use BatteryBot Pro from F-Droid to alert me when the battery rises above 80% or drops below 30%
Several Android manufacturers have their own settings in the OS for battery longevity (automatic schedule based smart charging, or charging limits)
Don’t think it’s native in Android. Charging limits need support in the charging controller chip, plus driver support in the OS.
Yeah, same here honestly. For real, I wish it was available in the US too
There’s other phones with user replaceable batteries. I looked it up a month or so ago. They’re not as ethical as fairphone, but still better than my drawer of working phones with dead batteries.
Phones like the Galaxy Active which have terrible hardware to make them entirely unappealing outside of that one crucial feature. They do this on purpose.
I hope Graphene eventually shifts to support the fairphones. Doubtful, but it’d be perfect
No, it’s the other way around. Fairphone needs to implement the things Graphene requires.
Por que no los dos?
GrapheneOS can’t add hardware features to an existing phone. That’s why no los dos.
Sure, but once that’s in place, Graphene has to make efforts on their part. It’s not instantly compatible unless the hardware is exactly identical to a supported device. That’s the point I was making. I forget sometimes when being flippant that I have to explain every detail so that overly pedantic people can follow…my bad…
Sure. My point is that GrapheneOS can’t do much until Fairphone does their part.
If we could get a Fairphone with GrapheneOS, that would be the perfect phone for me. Repairability & the most secure and private Android. Sign me up!
Hows their secure boot?
I wish they could implement the parts of the Pixel phones that allow GrapheneOS to be used.
What parts are these? I’ve always wondered what this was about, why the pixel was the only phone that could support GrapheneOS
The last I looked was that the Pixel was the only phone that allowed you to load a custom rom and relock the bootloader. Other phones kept the bootloader unlocked once it was modded.
So, graphene could be put on those phones if the devs wanted to do it, but it would be less secure since the bootloader would remain unlocked.
Also, supporting a small line a phones is probably infinitely easier than a range, of devices, but it would be nice to have another option. Especially now that the Fairphone pice is reasonable.
The Fairphone can be locked after flashing a custom rom. /e/-OS is officially supported. You can even buy it from them with /e/ preinstalled. iode-OS also works. I don’t know about Graphene OS, but tbh, I don’t see the benefit of Graphene OS for the average user. /e/ has built in privacy features, is google-free and runs MicroG as alternative to Google Play Services. Most apps run fine. You can even use your apps that you purchased from the PlayStore.
I’ve been using Fairphone 5 with /e/-OS for over a year and love it.
/e/ has built in privacy features
/e/ uses a for profit 3rd party for unencrypted backups. That alone should be a big red flag.
is google-free and runs MicroG
So it runs google. MicroG just limits what data is sent to google.
You can even use your apps that you purchased from the PlayStore.
You can do the same with aurora store. That’s available on just about every phone.
You can do the same with aurora store. That’s available on just about every phone.
not if the app attempts to verify its license through the play store. you need microg for that, or patch it
Well even graphene os still runs a version of Android. So there is still some goggle code in that. But ripping oit google play, amd various goggle services means goggle doesn’t track you with those. Yeah if you still ise gmail and log into toutube every day they will.
there is still some goggle code in that.
But that code is open source, and it has been verified that it dosent track you.
It a perfectly usable Android for the average user. Everything works out of the boy. If it is not for you, fine. Buy a Pixel.
for the average user.
So we are talking about an average user, who
- fully understands the appeal of a degoogled Phone
- Willingly spends extra money for a fairphone
- is able to migrate away from google services to /e/'s services
- Is willing and able to troubleshoot any problems that MicroG has
- is willing to fix not working banking apps
- but somehow can’t use a simple web installer from Calyx
Tell me, is this average user in the room with us right now?
Everything works out of the boy.
So does (and does not) with Calix or Graphene
Buy a Pixel.
I think you don’t get what I’m talking about.
-It takes a base level of understanding why you would buy a Fairphone (or any degoogled phone)
- it takes a base level of understanding phones to be able to use a degoogled one
- If you already have that knowledge, you might as well just take an extra 5 minutes and use the web installer for calyx since it is literally the same AND has less vendor lockin than /e/
Edit: You want an average user friendly ROM? Just use Lineage for gods sake.
Exactly. Even if I wanted /e/, I would re-flash when I got it, because the reason I want /e/ is because I don’t trust the OEM.
It’s the same way with desktops, I see zero value in buying a laptop w/ Linux pre-installed because I’m just going to reinstall when I get it anyway.
In 4 years I have never (and will never) used any service from /e/. There is no vendor lock whatsoever. That’s fully optional.
Points 3, 4 and 5 in your list are moot IMHO.
Also
It takes a base level of understanding why you would buy a Fairphone
It doesn’t really. “Phone is repairable and X can help me”, “they pay the makers fair wages” are not really complex value propositions that require some (technical) understanding.
The point of /e/ and similar distributions is that you can buy a phone with it (average user will never reflash) and just have a phone that doesn’t use Google (it does, for the amount that doesn’t require you to do extra technical stuff and have a sane user experience at the same time).
That said, calyx seems a great alternative and so are iode. I think the advantages of one over the other (for my brief search) are quite small.
I support all people around me when it comes to tech. I help them with their laptops and phones. If I get the chance to install Linux or de-googled Android, I do it, knowing that everything will work as they expect.
There is no baseknowlege required. People will buy what is readily available to them. A brand new Fairphone with e-OS preinstalled is readily available to them. And if the user experience is basically the same, they don’t even need care that their phone is more private.
/e/-OS is based on Lineage, with some stuff pre-installed to make it easier for users. I don’t get your problem. It is basically a distro. You are saying “why use Ubuntu when they can use Arch”. Doesn’t make sense at all.
lemmy is toxic as fuck. Same shit like every other site.
e-OS is said to have the worst security of pretty much all Android distributions. Dunno if this is a fact, but apparently the upgrade schedules are not great.
They are usually a month behind
The last I looked was that the Pixel was the only phone that allowed you to load a custom rom and relock the bootloader. Other phones kept the bootloader unlocked once it was modded.
That is not the case. SHIFTmq, Motorola and Fairphone allow the bootloader to be relocked with a custom rom. There are many requirements the Fairphone lacks for GrapheneOS, but relocking the bootloader is not one of them.
Thanks! I guess what I read before was either old or just wrong.
https://www.kuketz-blog.de/weshalb-grapheneos-aktuell-nur-google-pixel-geraete-unterstuetzt/
(From an Interview - The relevant parts are in English)
Security seems not easy.
I mean, you could use CalyxOS
It dosent have such things as 2 factor pin auth for fingerprint, but its the closest to Graphene
I would totally be interested if they had solid Linux support, such as postmarketOS or mobian. Those systems continue to get updates long after most Android devices stop supplying updates, so it would fit really well with a repairable phone. It shouldn’t be the default, but it would be awesome if they helped the Linux phone community make it the best supported hardware for the various Linux phone projects.
According to the postmarketOS wiki, audio is completely broken, so you have to use Bluetooth. That kind of sucks.
Bring back the headphone jack & we’ll be happy.
Next up, make the phone compatible with Linux OSs
We can but hope. I have a dongle that plugs into my charging point to make it a headphone jack, but it’s not the same
I recently went through that dongle buying experience. Having to get the correct DAC and amplifier chipset so the sound won’t be too low is annoying. For the record I ended up going with one that has the CX31993 DAC and the MAX97220 amplifier, it doesn’t have a real name so I’ll just give a link: https://aliexpress.com/item/1005008755907868.html. It is a bit louder than my first impulsive buy, but I haven’t tested the microphone yet.
Thanks for the link!
No thanks, i’ve broken every single one. A dap with bluetooth receiver works better.
What do you do to break them?
In my forties and never broken a headphone jack, headphones, cable, or in fact anything like that. I tend to take care of my stuff and not treat it in such a way as I’m going to break it.
Put it in my jeans pocket and move about my day as usual. Cycling broke them in a year, reliably.
But the presence of a headphone jack doesn’t prevent you from using Bluetooth?
It doesn’t and for many people the jack dying isn’t an issue.
This would’ve been my new phone if it had a headphone jack.
From an environmental standpoint it doesn’t make any sense to drop it. More batteries, more e waste
They sell earbuds, that’s all you need to know why it doesn’t have a jack anymore.
Really sad they dropped it
Yup I’ll stick with Xperia
I was trying so hard to buy one but Sony did not make them available at all in my country. The only way to buy an Xperia or a Zenfone 10 is through shady importer websites and you get no warranty.
Only 400€ to go until I can afford it.
I really want this to come to the US as well…
Is this phone also more secure?
The problem we are running into right now is Apple and Google are colluding with the US government over fascism and they are supporting their Nazi regime
They have all the power and they can change all of these services overnight, they can track you and everything and you will have no idea and no way to get rid of it
We really need an open replacement. Phones are now used for everything
Is this phone also more secure?
Probably not.
Apple & Google have spent considerable amounts of time building out hardware security infrastructure for their products that I find it extremely unlikely Fairphone would have been able to match.
For example, the popular alternative Android OS GrapheneOS only supports Google Pixels, because: (Emphasis added by me)
“There are currently no other devices meeting even the most basic security requirements while running an alternate OS. GrapheneOS is very interested in supporting a non-Pixel brand, but the vast majority of Android OEMs do not take security seriously. Samsung takes security almost as seriously as Google, but they deliberately cripple their devices when unlock them to install another OS and don’t allow an alternate OS to use important security features. If Samsung permitted GrapheneOS to support their devices properly, many of their phones would be the closest to meeting our requirements. They’re currently missing the very important hardware memory tagging feature, but only because it’s such a new feature”
If even Samsung, the only other phone brand on the market they consider close to meeting their standards, doesn’t support every modern hardware security feature, and deliberately cripples their security for alternate OS’s, as a multi billion dollar company, I doubt Fairphone has custom-built hardware security mechanisms for their phones to the degree that Google has.
Well yeah, because why would phone companies care? Consumers buy devices based on camera and display quality, not for security, privacy, etc. I just had a chat w/ a coworker about a Chinese device with an incredible camera and big battery, and I highly doubt it does anything but the bare minimum for security. It’s a cool piece of hardware, but a no-go for anyone that cares even a little about security updates.
I have a Pixel device because it has a long SW support cycle (Google promises at least 7 years), and I use GrapheneOS because it removes Google’s spyware crap. I’m not married to GrapheneOS or Pixel devices, I just need something where the software support will last at least longer than my desire to keep the device (about 4-5 years for me). I’ve ditched each of my last phones largely because they ran out of security update support, and that sucks.
I’d prefer a Linux phone w/ decent security features, but they don’t meet my minimum standards for things working (just need phone features to work properly, don’t need apps). The moment a Linux phone comes out than actually works properly and has reasonable security, I’ll switch. The FairPhone could be that, but it’s not, so I don’t have one.
Not only that, it’s really really hard to leave the app ecosystem. Anything that has an alternative basically has to run Android apps as well
I mean with smart homes and all the various apps, it becomes really hard to switch phones even. Even your bank app
how is pixel with graphene os ? does it completely remove all google spyware shit? or do they have some sort of hardware backdoor?
the reason I ask is because i have a motorola right now and it pisses me off immensely … there is this notification they keep pushing, “Activate Live Lock screen” which i don’t even know what it is, some background pictures crap. I uninstalled this app, but the notification remains. Like it’s not there always but keeps coming back every few days. this has been going on for months and i got so pissed i decided to contact support and complain there. they said, something along the lines of, we can connect remotely and do it for you. ( like disable, but they can’t disable because i went through every option on the phone, it cannot be disabled, it’s just bloatware) but their “we can do it for you remotely” got me thinking, backdoors, backdoors everywhere.
now i want a new phone lol and one that can support a custom firmware but installing custom firmwares on pretty much all phones is a nightmare.
but i also hate buying anything google, hence my question.
how is pixel with graphene os ?
Good?
By default, there’s no Google Play Services or any Google apps whatsoever. What you do have is a handful of utilities and a minimal app store that gives you the option to install Google Play Services and a few other apps. Or you can use the browser (Vanadium, a Chromium fork w/ some security options enabled) to download an alternative app store (F-Droid, Aurora, etc). They recently added Accrescent to the built-in app store as well, and I see 12 apps in that app store. I think by default there are 6 apps installed? (Messaging, PDF Viewer, Vanadium, Info, Auditor, and the App Store). I can’t remember which I had to install manually since I set it up a few months ago.
So yes, I think they thoroughly remove Google’s stuff from the default install.
Most Android apps seem to work (i.e. installed through Aurora), though a few have issues without Google Play Services running or one of the security features. I use a separate profile for the apps I need that don’t work w/o Google Play services, and I switch profiles as needed. That way I don’t have Google Play Services running at all unless I actually need it.
alright thanks for the extensive answer, this sounds great. i like the two profiles setup. and i didn’t even know about aurora store ( i am out of the loop i know :) ) looks like this could be my next phone, and previous gen looks great enough, i don’t need the latest bells and whistles, pixel 8 would be great.
Cool!
I’m happy to answer any other questions.
BTW, Aurora is just an alternative frontend to the Play Store, it has the same apps, but you can use an anonymous profile instead of logging in with a Google account.
Understand your worries. I can say that GOS is the gold standard of privacy phones , nothing beats it. Calyx comes in 2nd. A new install of graphene has a browser, pdf viewer sms app and that’s about it. Use as you wish , with secured bootloader and zero google stuff. And I think it’s the easiest install of any , anyone can do it. And 2nd hand phones are available
thanks, this sounds great. i’ve installed a few custom firmwares but like a decade ago and i wanted to install one on my motorola recently and was just perplexed at the complexity of it all, i might be getting old. i mean i can follow instructions, but just so many things can go wrong, don’t do this, softbrick, don’t do that, hardbrick … honestly, the instructions were well written but unorganized a bit, just put me off.
i think i might like GOS tho, sounds great and 2nd hand pixel 8 or so are cheap enough so i’ll probably give it a go.
Yea a lot have changed in 10 years in the cat and mouse game. GOS is a completely different thing. Want to unlock or unlock bootloader on a Motorola = 2 pages instructions in different xda threads. On a pixel? fastboot oem unlock done. And that’s just because I’m old school , GOS have a webinstaller were I think you don’t even need to touch the terminal.
Agree. Calyx is also an option when GOS support ends , then lineage etc. Wish we had good working Linux phones but I have high hopes my pixel 7 will be my last android
I used a Fairphone 4 with /e/ and it was good. Not great, but useable. I expect the hardware bugs I ran into (using the camera only worked like 20 times before the phone needed a restart, Bluetooth randomly not working) to be ironed out by now. Currently on an old Samsung and it is more solid, but I also liked the environmentalism with the fairphone. Anyone with a Fairphone 5 and something like a glucose sensor thats in constant use?
I’m waiting on a Framework Phone.
Do you really think they’ll make one?
Yes eventually they will. Might be still 5 years away tho
I hope so, and I hope they make it compatible with regular Linux, like postmarketOS or Mobian. Make sure all the core phone features work properly (calls, SMS/MMS, data, audio, sensors, etc), then let the Linux community go nuts on it.
I’d pay a premium for that, and I’d probably pick up a Framework laptop as well. I currently use an old Thinkpad (circa 2018), and I’m trying to make that last until Framework has an option for a 13-14" laptop with insane battery life (ARM or RISC-V is probably fine), or at least has a keyboard that has a Trackpoint and physical mouse buttons like my Thinkpad. But if they make a phone, I might just lower my standards a bit to keep everything in the family.
500 Euro for what amounts to a midrange phone still seems like yuppie consumerism to me. Better to get an older phone and hold onto it. My Moto G4 lasted 7 years before obsolescence and physical wear caught up with it. I wonder how many current Fairphones will still be in use in 2034.
Turns out ethical wages and materials cost money. I agree that older tech being more ethical as whatever ‘cost’ is may have was paid by the first owner.
I still have a made in Finland Nokia N9 that cost $200 around 15 years ago. Too bad it became unusable in the US with the shutdown of the 3G network, whenever that was.
Better to get an older phone and hold onto it.
That’s sort of how they’ve marketed their phones over the years. Fairphone exists as a fairer alternative to brand new phones, but the company has always been quite clear that the most environmentally friendly phone you have is your current one and that you should keep it for as long as realistically possible.
Please get through the FCC and open sales in the USA before Fairphone 6 is made.
I really don’t want to buy another unrepairable phone.
Do you know why it’s not in the US?
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Thanks for a great and in depth answer. I love Lemmy.
I’d also like an official shop instead of the weird Murena store, which sells the FP4 for $650… That’s ridiculous. They have parts in stock though, so I guess that’s nice.
Idk, but if I had to guess, the answer is almost always money.
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I have the fairphone 4 and have had no issues. As long as a fairphone exists I don’t see any reason I should switch.
Have you had to replace any parts yet?
I had to replace parts on my FP5. It fell on very bad asphalt at speed whilst cycling in a foreign country. The glass on the camera modules scattered. Display protector broke and the case got some good damage. I was instantly calmed realising it is a FairPhone and knowing I could order replacement parts.
Repairs were trivial and it feels good to have created just a tiny amount of e-waste instead of a large amount. The black aluminium case has some war wounds (scratches) reminding me of the trip.
Knowing it’s so easy to repair, do you think it’s worth bothering with a case and/or screen protector?
If you hate cases so much, sure. But why create e waste and waste your money when you can avoid that by using a case?
FWIW, I have the FP3 for now more than 4 years. I have only replaced the battery 6 months ago. A case would have been extra waste (to produce the case itself) in my case, and probably will be trashed after as it might not fit the next phone.
If you can keep it safe then cool. I cannot take that risk as my current screen protector is already cracked a little within a year lol.
You defentently need a case for the FP5. Without its very slippery.
I’d likely use a case in this instance. I remember dropping the Pixel 5 several times for that reason.
I don’t bother with a case for this reason, haven’t broken anything so far. Just replaced the battery a couple times.
Depends on the use.
The screen protector serves as a blue light filter too, it’s cheaper than a display, and fairly thin. That’s a straightforward addition for my use but if you don’t have issues with your phone dropping then you could certainly do without.
I very much dislike cases and loved the PH-1 for stating that a phone should be solid enough without a case (sadly it did not survive a 50cm drop on a floor so it did not hold up in practice). If you don’t have much issues with your phone dropping then not having a case makes it so much nicer.
I take more risk holding my phone than I should which means it falls more than average. The price I have to pay is a screen protector and cover. Replacing the display should be easy, but it’d also be wasteful.
Do you use their OS?
Aaaand it’s impossible to buy in the US. Even if USians want to do the right thing, we’re not permitted.
Of course, not being a billionaire is illegal here.
Import? Buy one on ebay?
