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How much of the parade did you watch? I watched none. I think most of America will say they didnāt even bother to turn on the tv, most probably forgot it was happening at all.
Compare that to the Macyās day parade. It was a failure. He wanted it to be a big deal, it absolutely was not a big deal. Failure.
You do realize how this just doesnāt follow logically right? I donāt think Iāve ever once watched the Macyās day parade ever. I sure as hell donāt think that most Americans watch it. That doesnāt mean that the Macyās day parade is a failure. The person youāre talking to is asking for any sort of source. Only one person in this thread has even bothered to discuss this properly with that person. The truth of the matter is that you need factual numbers to discuss this. You canāt go off of feelings or Twitter replies or comments in overwhelmingly democratic communities. You need an actual source with factual numbers. Until there is something like that then itās pointless discussing whether the parade was a failure or not.
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You (and apparently 11 others) have completely misread my comment. I explicitly said "That doesnāt mean that the Macyās day parade is a failure. Macyās Day Parade is clearly absolutely a success. And guess what, thereās metrics to back it up. My point is that just because I do not watch it doesnāt mean that itās not a success. There are zero metrics provided by Aeao nor by the article to substantiate any sort of conclusion about trumpās parade one way or the other. Until those statistics come out, anything anyone says about the failure or success of the event is just spreading misinformation.
I deleted my commnet, but youāre still silly to call Trumpās parade anything but a fiasco.
Think of it this way. If the military had looked tough, the top posts would be about how scary the Army was and how threatened people feel. If Trump had gotten the crowds he wanted heād be all over the media today crowing about how popular he is.
Or to put it another way. If you live near the local football field you can tell instantly when the hometeam has lost, simply by the way people leave the stadium. No one in MAGA world is taking a victory lap
I donāt really see the correlation here. The article doesnāt make any of the claims you do, nor does Aeao. The article just makes some vague claims and Aeao has about 15 logical fallacies in just as many comments. This has nothing to do with whether or not the parade was actually a failure and everything to do with the fact that just making shit up and claiming anecdotal evidence is evidence means you are no better than the conservatives youāre trying to make look bad. In fact it weakens your position a ton.
To make this clear I am not saying trumps parade was good nor bad, because unlike other commenters here I wait until I have actual evidence to make claims. I do not give one shit whether his parade was good or bad in this conversation because thatās not the discussion here. The discussion is about whether you can make a claim like āI didnāt watch this, you didnāt watch this, I donāt know anyone that did watch it, so itās a failureā, which is an absolutely ridiculous argument to make, which is why I used Aeaoās own Macyās day parade example against them. It shows how ridiculous of an argument it is.
Aeao is busy now asking me to provide what I think failure is, which is directly out of the fascist and conservative playbook of flipping the conversation around. Iām not the one claiming it was a failure. We donāt even know what the actual numbers are, how are we even supposed to define failure? You seem to be defining it by how much the orange turd is bragging on the internet. Lembot 0003 seems to be defining it based on how ordinary it was. Aeao is defining it based on whether they watched it or not, which is clearly anecdotal and much less based in fact than anything else provided here. Thatās my point.
Edit: just to make one more point: Aeao was making a claim. Their claim is not supported by the linked article with facts or figures or even pictures. I block all trump and musk keywords on lemmy, so Iām not going to see anything else you are considering to be āfailureā in regards to other posts being at the top. Itās not my job to go find that info. Iām not the one making the claim itās a failure. Either rolling stone needs to provide it (which would be good journalism) or Aeao needs to provide it, which clearly they canāt do because those figures donāt exist yet and all they seem to want to do is argue with anecdotal evidence.
You, for whatever reason, are vastly overcomplicating it.
Iām old enough to remember Bush Jr. landing on that aircraft carrier dressed like Fighter Pilot Barbie. People on the Left derided him, but we all had to admit that heād made a powerful statement and really touched a lot of people
You say you need āfacts,ā and I say that people were building complex machines long before they had calculus. Sometimes the evidence of your own eyes is enough.
Or do you think that six months from now people will change their minds and start talking about what a great parade it was?
1)You said I made 15 comments. I want your explanation on that exaggerated count
i want you to list all 15 logical fallacies you said I made.
You said asking you to define what āfailureā means to you is ādirectly out of the fascist and conservative playbookā. Give me examples of fascists and conservatives asking for that clarification.
you said I need to provide proof. Sure, what proof would you like?
I want answers to those questions but Iāll continue explaining my point that you clearly missed.
I need a metric of what is and isnāt a failure from the people disagreeing because otherwise thereās nothing to say. Right now there are plenty of reputable news sources saying low turnout but no real hard numbers and honestly when numbers do come out they will be estimating. Does that count?
Letās assume an exact count tho, Iāll make up numbers to illiterate the problem with your arguments. Letās pretend they are accurate .
100,000 people. Is that a failure or a success?
What about 10,000?
What about 1,000,000?
Thatās just people who attended and maybe youāre counting people who watched at home?
150,000 hypothetical people watched at home letās say. Is that a failure or a success?
Thatās the point you are purposely turning away from. When we say it was a failure we mean it was significantly less viewers than anticipated and significantly less than other major parades.
What are you asking for? Whatās your metric? That isnāt an unreasonable question itās vital for this discussion. What are you asking for?
Iāve offered proof you havenāt been able to articulate what proof you want.
23 million people watch it last year. And it out performed all other entertainment specials.. Thus making the Macyās parade the most successful.
Hey look, what I said was accurate.
Hey look! You proved my point a second time!
Anecdotal evidence means nothing! The person I responded to said that they didnāt watch it and most people probably didnāt, that makes it a failure. Literally the source you provided (hey look, a source!) shows that most Americans not watching a parade doesnāt make it a failure, and that anecdotal evidence is the worst kind of evidence, in this case leading to a completely incorrect conclusion by Aeao.
Previous years it was upward toward 50 million. Its more of the decline of television in general. For example This video has 1.4 million views alone. The televised numbers arent reflecting how many people prefer watching it in online these days.
And before you say ābut 50 million is only 15% of the population thatās not most!ā. But having 15% of the population consistently watch an event year after year is exceptional the only thing that draws in more americans annually is the superbowl.
You are completely missing the point. I explicitly said āThat doesnāt mean that the Macyās day parade is a failureā in response to āmost Americansā not watching something. Even 50 million Americans watching an event is not āmost Americansā, even 150 million isnāt āmost Americansā. What Aeao said is clearly not a correct way to measure the success of something, which you have demonstrated (and which I said in my original comment). Macyās day parade isnāt a failure even though most Americans donāt watch it nor think of it. So why is that standard being applied to this parade, which we donāt even have numbers for.
You canāt even make the claim for this parade because there arenāt any numbers. And Aeao saying things like āI didnāt watch, did you?ā To imply that it wasnāt successful is just disingenuous.
Since someone probably thinks Iām defending this fucking parade, I have to explicitly explain this. Imagine a trumper comes up to you and says āthe no kings day protests were a failure, hardly anyone showed upā, how are you going to prove them wrong? Pictures, videos? Statistics of the actual numbers of people that participated? Ok, now what happens when a trumper says to you, ātrumps birthday celebration was a massive successā. What are you going to do then? Where are the photos and videos (they sure arenāt in this post, nor in the article this post is about). Where are the numbers? The article only calls out that they expected 250k. It provides no other numbers.
Saying āI didnāt watch it, so this is a failureā is the exact same thing as me saying āI didnāt watch the Macyās day parade so it is a failure. Itās an idiotic conclusion using anecdotal evidence that does nothing to prove anything. All it does is make the person making the claim look like they donāt care about facts and simply make up conclusions based on no evidence.
Let me cut thru the fat and just explain why your argument is ridiculous. Iāll put politics and jokes aside.
I love a battle semantics more than most. I once brought a $100 dictionary to my HOA pool to explain āduskā to the security guard.
Let me explain why your argument is silly.
You want numbers to prove it was a failure, correct?
Okay. We will have them in a couple days when they are available. However in the meantime YOU need to define your parameters if you are going to argue. What exactly is a āfailureā to you? How little viewing/attendance is the threshold for this argument? When is a parade a failure exactly?
If you want to argue what is or isnāt a failed parade and you want proofā¦ Fine, but we need your goal posts, we need to know you describe as a failed parade because numbers are just numbers. Whatās your metric?
Just to make this clear, you are doing the exact same thing that conservatives do; make a claim with no evidence to prove so, when questioned divert and/or provide anecdotal evidence, and then when pushed further state that itās the questionerās job to provide the evidence. Youāre acting like youāre better than conservatives and then doing the same bullshit they do. Be better.
I never once asked you for evidence. Thatās a flat out lie. I asked for parameters. What do want as evidence? What do you consider proof to be? What numbers do you consider shows a failed parade?
Itās very simple. You donāt even have to research. Itās entirely your opinion Iām asking for. Not proof. Wheres the goal post? Itās a reasonable question.
Youāre the one not providing figures and saying itās a failure dude. Itās not my job to define failure, youāre the one making the claim. Not to pull out logical fallacies but this is the biggest case of āburden of proofā Iāve ever seen. I donāt really give a shit how many people went to the parade, itās a huge waste of money and a joke no matter what.
You are the one making crazy claims without proof. Either wait for the proof or donāt be mad when others point out that you have no proof. Iām just helping out the poor other soul that pointed out your ridiculous claims that serve only to make democrats and people supporting the protests look bad. You know how they make us look bad? Because what happens when someone shows up and says āthe no kings day protests were a huge failureā and you provide the nice stats that are already available showing itās a success, and then that same person says āthe birthday parade was a huge successā and you have zero facts to back that up! You literally only make it look like youāre incapable of being unbiased.
Itās exactly your job to define failure. You asked for proof. Tell me what proof looks like. What do you consider proof?
lol it is not dude, holy shit conservative playbook much? Youāre the one claiming failure and yet you canāt even define it because you donāt have figures!
I havenāt claimed anything. i donāt think Iāve even called it a failure.
I have plenty of proof tho. What proof would you like?
Let me try an illustrative example:
Prove to me the planet Jupiter is huge
That leaves the question "what proof are you asking for exactly?! Whatās needed to prove huge to you? What are the goal posts and I can provide information to prove itās hugeā¦ If I only have āprove itā Iām not sure what to hand youā¦
Thatās how it gets silly
āThe parade was a failureā
āProve itā
"What exactly do you want proven? Failure is an opinion so whatās the metric we are working worth? What proves a failure of a parade? I mean it was viewed by significantly less people than the Macyās day parade? I hated the idea of the parade and complained it was happening but somehow still forgot it was happening at allā¦ Does being forgettable count as failure ? It had less turnout than expectedā¦ Is that a failure? It cost millions of dollars and even the people arguing it wasnāt a failure admit they didnāt watch it or care it happened at allā¦ Is that failure?
What exactly do you want proven? Iāll prove it I just need to know what Iām researching for you?