Ngl this mene unnecesarily divides people more than anything.
No socialists and “tankies” I know IRL don’t deny Uyghur genocide, general opinion is “Conflict between the Chinese government and Uyghur groups exist but US media exaggerates it for clickbait articles too.”
Similar with Israel. Democrats mostly say “I hate the Iran’s government for their legal system but still doesn’t justify civilians dying.” Nobody is congratulating Israel on “standing up for gay rights” or some shit.
Also ask the other group how they feel about global warming or education system sometime.
Chinese communists certainly deny the Uyghur genocide.
No socialists and “tankies” I know IRL don’t deny Uyghur genocide, general opinion is "Conflict between the Chinese government and Uyghur groups exist
MLs in lemmy absolutely deny anything bad is happening to Uyghurs.
This isn’t about IRL. This is about the disinformation that bad actors spread in online communities.
You also have a selection bias. You have friends with similar political views because you distance yourself from people you disagree with, either physically or just through avoiding “sensitive” topics. I’ve personally disconnected from some friends because they didn’t when I brought up Biden’s historic support of Israel. I still voted for him and Harris over Trump, but that wasn’t good enough for them.
No socialists and “tankies” I know IRL don’t deny Uyghur genocide, general opinion is “Conflict between the Chinese government and Uyghur groups exist but US media exaggerates it for clickbait articles too.”
Socialists in real life? Probably not. Tankies? Yes. They all do.
Bruh, just bruh…
As expected, tankies came out in drove to whitewash Uyghur genocide 😂
There are far too many complaints and eyewitness to hide the grievances from the Uyghurs and CCP’s mistreatment of them.
People who think they’re well informed because they scroll through lots of memes are deciding elections now, and look where we are.
Well, believing in things is alienating, and the work required to gebuinely identify your self interest is frustrating and hard.
So what else are they supposed to do?
Read source material, don’t just consume self-confirming entertainment.
and the work required to genuinely identify your self interest is frustrating and hard.
Nope. Sorry.
There is significant politicization of genocide declarations. They are all declared by fascist US empire and its slave controlled democracy colonies. There is very obvious extensive video evidence of extermination policies for Palestinians.
China responded to 2014 terrorist attacks with education and job creation programs. Xinxiang has had decent prosperity and population growth compared to other Chinese provinces despite a BDS policy from US controlled empire. The “technical genocide” accusation is based on a handful of Uyghur women with 4+ children who somehow all got to the UK, and claimed to now be sterile. Uyghurs had historically been exempt from Chinese one child policy.
Political demonism happens independently of facts. There are historical tensions in Xinxiang between Uyghur/muslim majority and relatively more prosperous Han minority, but Chinese policies are far more egalitarian than Alabama policies with much higher inequality. China has made the most humanist response to terrorism in history of civilization, even if it is not above criticism.
I would love a source on the Uyghurs that isn’t Adrain Zenz. He is the* Fash behind the “Victims of Communism Memorial Fund”.
All sources eventually point back to him in our Western Media, and its fucking disgusting.
(Edit: he is one of the Fash behind actual Nazi Propaganda Smuggling)
i think it is a great idea to build a “victims of communism” memorial so people can step outside to the victims of capitalism memorial.
Oh my. Thank you, I missed this story.
You’re welcome, I’m glad to share it.
I very much appreciate it being Al Jezeera, too. So the claims of US/Western/NATO bias/mouthpiece hold no weight.
Interestingly Xinjiang’s population growth since 2015 has been due to migration from the rest of China rather than birth rates, and the Uighur birth rate has fallen over this time period while the slackening of birth control legislation has led to slight increases (as compared to one child policy era) for the rest of non-Tibetan PRC.
The destruction of traditional life-styles and enforced
capitalistSocialist (with Chinese Characteriatics) modernity with SOEs taking control of traditionally common or village wide croplands and flocks, in the 80s led to a lot of the economic problems in the first place. It’s similar to enclosure in Europe, where now to not want to labour away in a factory for a wage and make your boss richer is extremism and also mad.That is to say, I do not think the PRC is actively killing large amounts of Uighurs. But there is a policy of cultural erasure, commodifiction of culture and heritage, and very tight, apartheid style control of the population.
The definition of genocide originally included cultural erasure, but it was vetoed by the U.S and some other countries because they would be guilty of genocide themselves.
Every day you wake up in the morning you can open up your phone and check new videos of murdered and mutilated children in Palestine at the hands of Israel.
You can go on a google search to find images of the 1989 Tiananmen protest and the violence that took place, very gore stuff. We’re talking 1989, most cameras were analog, bulky and visible, and required professional developing afterwards. As censored as that’s been in China, you can still find plenty of photo evidence of violence in and against the protests.
Yet, in 2025, somehow, in the smartphone era, when almost literally every Chinese adult citizen carries a camera in their pocket with internet access (and widespread non-prosecuted access of VPNs in China to bypass the great firewall), there isn’t a shred of photographic evidence of violence against the Uyghur people. The claims start on 2019-2020, and in FIVE YEARS, it hasn’t been possible to capture photographic evidence of the harrowing genocide?
I googled it and found a literal trove of evidence.
Here’s a starting point since it’s eluded you for so long.
How is this evidence of genocide? This is evidence for the existence of correction camps (which you can obviously criticise) during a very concrete period of time in Xinjiang over the span of a few years, not evidence of genocide
This was the point where you moved the goalposts and revealed you’re not willing to discuss in good faith.
Have you read the picture which makes this post? It literally revolves around the word “genocide”. Who’s moving the goalposts here by saying “well maybe it’s not a genocide but there’s been some extent of police state during a counter-terrorism campaign”?
You’re correct, that is what the meme is referencing.
However, I responded to your statement attempting to deny photographic evidence of violence.
14 independent sources; yet you still are denying the evidence and moving goalposts.
This is what you wrote as of this comment:
Yet, in 2025, somehow, in the smartphone era, when almost literally every Chinese adult citizen carries a camera in their pocket with internet access (and widespread non-prosecuted access of VPNs in China to bypass the great firewall), there isn’t a shred of photographic evidence of violence against the Uyghur people.
It seems like some evidence of violence against them exists, and has been corroborated by multiple sources.
“14 independent sources”, none of which provides photographic evidence of violence? These “leaks” are mostly reports in Chinese that you have to trust have been translated accurately and unbiasedly by western political actors, not “pictures of people in concentration camps”.
I also mentioned multiple times the genocide in the comment you’re quoting, and you’re choosing to overfocus on the single time I didn’t.
genocide, by definition, includes the erasure of a cultural group.
these camps are purpose built to erase a specific culture through “re-education”. that is genocide.
these camps are purpose built to erase a specific culture through “re-education”
Then why did the camps close after the few years it took for the counter-terrorism campaign to work? Why does Xinjiang have a regional government, with its chairman being an Uyghur man called Erkin Tuniyaz? Why are there above 100 Islamic associations in Xinjiang with imams teaching theology and Arabic?
my understanding is that it’s at the point of erasure without outright murder at this time. being sent to concentration camps, forced labor, denied right to their culture, etc. the stuff that tends to come before mass killings, and the ultimate purpose of mass killings, is erasure of a group identity.
maybe it’s not a genocide like in Bosnia but it’s certainly problematic. the actions seem to be not far off from the ways indigenous americans have been erased, which is another place where the word “genocide” has been debated
The original definition of genocide was meant to include cultural erasure, but that was vetoed by the USA and other countries since they would be guilty of genocide themselves.
Removed by mod
There’s no evidence whatsoever of forced labor, and calling the reeducation camps “concentration camps” is very misleading and not really based on actual evidence, just on misinterpreted Adrian Zenz anti-chinese propaganda.
In China, it’s normal for teens 13 to 18 years old to be interned into boarding schools in which they study about 12h a day. In western Europe that would be considered child abuse, in China many see it as a rather normal thing.
This isn’t to say there’s probably been a degree of authority abuse and police state for an interval of time in Xinjiang as a consequence of counter-terrorism policy. But Uyghur culture and language are celebrated, people enjoy better living conditions than 10 years ago, and you can see the vibrant life and culture in Kashgar if you go watch any content from any content creator who’s been in the area lately.
Also, if you cross a checkpoint in Xinjiang, and there are lots of them, you’ll likely have your phone checked and be asked to delete disharmonious images by the armed guards at them.
And please forgive me if being forced to dance, have your culture commodified, and be an exotic other for Han men’s gaze and touch doesn’t fill me with vim and joy for the state of Kashgar.
Not a shred of photographic evidence
That is misleading. Why did authorities try to stop BBC from filming?
Because BBC is a British state media company, and it has motives to create anti-china propaganda. The EU famously forbade access to Russian media after the invasion of Ukraine, do you think this is to prevent the outside world from seeing the horrors of the EU? Is there Chinese state media presence in US congress press releases?
Again: how does China stop every single Uyghur adult from taking pics with their smartphone? How did they not manage in 1989 with a reduced number of analog cameras which would need professional development, but they can manage in the smartphone era where a Chinese citizen can upload a picture on the internet 10 seconds after taking it?
Except there’s evidence, and not just satellite photos of internment camps. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/hacked-chinese-government-files-gives-new-insights-on-the-mass-detention-of-ethnic-uighurs
You can continue to hang onto some conspiracy-theory-esque logic of “but it doesn’t make sense”, or you can face reality. There are enough hurdles to getting a photo on the internet and then noticed by the wider public that it’s entirely explainable.
Source of your article:
The files were leaked to Adrian Zenz
If you still take seriously anything coming from Adrian Zenz, chairman of the Victims of Communism Memorial Association and rabid Christian conservative, it’s your fault
Yes, but he didn’t make up the files. They’re a real leak of Chinese data.
By virtue of his name being attached to the anti-China side of the conversation, he’s going to end up with things like this.
The documents were also examined independently of him by 14, iirc, different organisations to ensure validity and veracity.
The files may be real, but they’re no evidence of genocide in the slightest
Would you be more convinced if we moved the goalposts to that old Right Wing nutjob phrase “cultural genocide”?
Throwing people into camps for traditional values, guilt by association or proximity, (from the files, along with goals of sinisation).
And the imposition of modern wage labour, while removing local language and lifestyles.
Or will you at least conced that if those files are real, then there is/was a huge mass detention campaign that bordered upon, if not being one, a crime against humanity?
Removed by mod
Thanks, I hadn’t seen that. What strikes me as odd is that neither side mentions a huge factor in the conflict: China’s investment in the “belt & road” initiative which relies on the old “Silk Road” route which passes through Xinjiang.
The Uighurs did have an independence separatist movement (China isn’t paranoid) and it would disrupt these plans. China aint letting go of its tight grip any time soon.
weak. Ok, education camps show videos of how glorious and indivisible China is. Did you know that US children are forced to recite similar pledge of allegiance every day? Ok, the police have made a plan for dealing with insurrection. This is pure brainwashing about the power to present nothing as brainwashing, with enough style and dramatic music score.
Yes, murica and china are pretty much on the same level when it comes to indoctrination. That doesn’t make either a good thing. I find the leadership of both countries abhorrent, sometimes one more than the other.
Any source from anywhere could be propaganda. Here is your chance to debunk the BBC report if you want.
You are confusing banning news production by foreigners with banning transmission of foreign news.
BBC probably did make it difficult for Russian state news to access UK social media users after Russia invaded Ukraine for their “three day special operation” (obviously a lie from the start). They probably did not forbid access to the Russian journalists wanting to film in the UK.
China probably forbids BBC news with their great internet firewall. I know they ban the Tiananmen Square massacre imagery.
I don’t think UK forbids Chinese from filming in UK. China did not forbid BBC from filming in China either but they did try to forbid filming the detention centre.
Again: how does China stop every single Uyghur adult from taking pics with their smartphone?
Not “every single Uygur”, just the ones locked up. That is how detention works, even in the West.
Any source from anywhere could be propaganda
Which is why I’m bringing up things such as the overwhelming lack of photographic evidence over the 5+ years since the claims started, not exclusively blaming the BBC.
Here is your chance to debunk the BBC report if you want
Very convenient how the burden of proof is on me to prove that a report is fake. Casting away fake news is easy and doesn’t require any research or effort, debunking them is more complicated. How about this: the lack of photographic evidence from the BBC or any other report is enough for me to deny the claims of genocide.
You are confusing banning news production by foreigners with banning transmission of foreign news
No, I talked about both, I gave you the explicit example of the lack of Chinese state media in US institutional press releases.
China probably forbids BBC news with their great internet firewall
Good. Things like this are why there isn’t a pro-fascist movement in China, unlike the western world. China is progressively opening up now that it has enough soft power to maintain the western propaganda at bay, whereas the west closes up to Chinese social media by banning Tiktok or requiring it to have american ownership.
know they ban the Tiananmen Square massacre imagery
Yet you can readily find pictures of it happening, how come you can’t find pictures of a 5-year-long genocide in the age of smartphones?
Not “every single Uygur”, just the ones locked up
The reeducation centers are almost all closed already. I’m not arguing there wasn’t a reeducation campaign for a few years in Xinjiang targeting Uyghur people as a measure of counter-terrorism, I’m arguing that it’s already over (hence no news since 2022-2023) and that it doesn’t remotely constitute genocide.
Seems you missed my point:
Again: how does China stop every single Uyghur adult from taking pics with their smartphone?
Not “every single Uygur”, just the ones locked up. That is how detention works, even in the West.
So there was the BBC and the PBS report another person provided in the comments.
By the way, I agree there was no genocide. See my other comments where I acknowledge the Uighur separatist movement threatening access to the Silk Road so obviously the CCP has to try something.
such an embarrassing propaganda nothing burger. BBC propaganda crew being stopped from filming proves any demonic lie they made? Where is armed “supervisors”, where is barbed wire surrounding factories? “victims of communism” organization is a nazi front. BBC a CIA propaganda arm. OMG a job recruitment ad mentioned the “glory of work” in its marketing appeal. Must be mind control forced labour.
Me posting this meme with the full knowledge that it might make it to “All” and generate a shitshow of a comment section
posting anti-tankie and anti-electoralism stuff in an Anarchism comm is one of the easiest way to generate infinite salt.
It did. Be proud
You’re my hero
Congratulations?
This community is just popular enough to make it to /all, but not popular enough to drown out all the liberals/tankies that come here.
I phrased this horribly sorry
Are you though?
Am I what?
Edit: Oh, you mean if I am sorry, well, I’m sorry I can’t phrase it properly.
Turn off your notifications mate. And don’t return to the scene of the crime
But where’s the fun in that?!
Beautiful.
This instance has made me realize that I am an anarchist. What a strange world… No regrets, thank you guys.
I just don’t think we’re meant to live in large numbers tbh.
You take the average opinion of 200 million people, apply it to everyone, and nobody will be happy with it.
Might be better if we gave people proper education and didnt encourage crab-bucketing so hard.
Hell yeah welcome to the struggle.
Just remember you don’t need to agree with every mainstream anarchist take to call yourself an anarchist. That’s the best part and one of many things that set this movement a cut above other leftist movements.
the fediverse is inherently propaganda for the possibility of anarchism
Isn’t one of the main lemmy devs a staunch communist?
Yes, unfortunately this is why the software itself enforces such rigid hierarchies.
Yeah, but that doesn’t mean is the difect intention or that it has to be enforced we can find our own meaning.
Right-out tankie. But then broken clocks are right twice a day.
We’re glad to have you here 🫡
We are happy to have you! 🥰 There is an anarchist book i highly recommend. You can read all of it or just pick sections you find interesting.
People ask “how can anarchism work? Don’t we need a boss?” Or “How would things be managed?”. And this book explains it very well :)
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works
It’s even available in audiobook form by audible anarchism
Same here I beliving in Anarchy more as a fight to concentration of power which concecuences are in full display in any news outlet. I’m also starting to feel kinda inclined to solarpunk.
I’d be an anarchist, but I think anarchism would only work if the world is far more connected than we are today. Anarchist communities developed organically because their environments are close to each other, facilitating cultural exchange and then evolving into a converging culture where people in the communities eventually “think alike”. It is like with Fremens in Dune. The entire ethnic group inhabit the entire planet, but their lines of communications are pretty reliable and fast, so in that sense the world of Fremen is “small”, allowing for an organic development of an anarchist culture by themselves.
Please don’t take this the wrong way, what do Anarchists do irl that is making a difference? From what I see, most of the posting is leftist views, but what seperates them from other left leaning groups aside from viewpoints?
Personally, I help run a makerspace. In fact, I had been doing that for years before calling myself an anarchist; seeing how things work in a volunteer community makerspace is what made me think that maybe, just maybe, we actually can run society in an anarchist way. Yeah, things are a little messy there sometimes, but in the end, I think we do get the stuff done that needs to get done. People are a little less dependent on a capitalist system because of it, and learn a little more to rely on their local community.
Politically, I tend to work alongside a lot of socialists. Anything that takes us towards improving unions and mutual aid is good for me. Partially, this is also because anarchist groups are notoriously inconsequential. It’s a lot of “I’ll get this done, right after I have this joint”. Socialists are more like “lets get this done, then have an edible”. One of these is more productive than the other.
You wouldn’t happen to have any resources regarding how to run a community makerspace, would you?
Nothing in particular, but I’m happy to answer questions. Getting to know other community makerspaces in the region is a good idea. Everyone was winging it, but figured it out.
Prefiguration.
The idea of resisting domination by living outside it. Creating your own grassroots community structures without state or corporate control.
A focus on organizing in horizontal power structures.
A focus on direct action over electoralism?
I might be wrong but I feel that anarchy is on slightly different axis (like x vs y) than simple left/right divide, but definitively more to the left than right. Different means, similar goals?
I yield to more experienced anarchists here for explanation, I’m just learning to be one!
However, I remember one trip with my dad when I was a teen. We were talking, I can’t remember about what exactly, him exclaiming “You must be some kind of anarchist!” to summarize my own worldview stuck with me to this day.
When I was applying to this instance, this has somehow resonated with me
https://wiki.dbzer0.com/divisions-by-zero/the-anarchist-code-of-conduct/
Am I an anarchist or just a sane reasonable person? I have some reading to do… but I have the gut feeling.
I think the left/right divide is pretty bullshit, it gets rid of a lot of nuance in any political discussion.
Am I an anarchist
I recommend you read: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/david-graeber-are-you-an-anarchist-the-answer-may-surprise-you
Agreed. Even the political compass is just an imperfect model.
I think a better model is a connected graph. A socialist advocating for unions and an anarcho-syndcalist are going to have a direct connection. So does an ancap and a christian advocating the prosperity gospel. But you’ll have to go through a lot of steps in the graph to connect ancaps and anarcho-syndcalists, because as we all know, the two have nothing to do with each other.
Ah tankies
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
I’ve always wondered what my cousin meant by “twice removed” but now I know
Tankies: handing out “genocide denial” bans for calling Ukraine a genocide.
You can simultaneously condemn the invasion of Ukraine and understand that false claims of genocide are harmful against people suffering genocide
Russia has been credibly accused off displacing local populations, seizing homes, mass torture and sexual violence against civilians and abduction of children in occupied territories. There are numerous examples of Russian politicians stating openly that they seek to exterminate Ukrainian identity.
The only argument that Russia is not engaging in large scale genocide is that Ukraine has prevented them from doing so by force.
None of the instances of what you’re claiming have been disproportionate compared to any modern conflict if you actually run the numbers, and if you compare to western-backed wars such as the invasion of Iraq, the numbers pale in comparison. War is horrifying, and you can heavily criticise the invasion of Ukraine, but calling it a genocide simply doesn’t hold when you look at the numbers.
the numbers don’t matter nearly as much as the intent.
“merely” planning a murder is illegal, same with genocide.
there’s this weird idea that an event can only ever be a genocide after all the victims have died. that’s not true, and never has been.
the numbers don’t matter nearly as much as the intent
But how do you judge intent without numbers? I do believe the US didn’t have a genocidal intent in the invasion of Iraq, and didn’t commit genocide, but the ratio of civilians to military who died is disproportionately high compared to that of Ukraine invasion by Russia. I’m sure you can go to fox news of 2003 and find right wing talking heads, journalists and politicians talking of all Iraqi as terrorists to be eliminated. You can do the same for some deranged Russian nationalist politicians and journalists. How, other than numerically and by policy, can you judge the intent? I can determine Israel is enacting genocide against Palestinians because of the horrendous murder rates of civilians, including through forced starvation and besiegement, because of indiscriminate bombing against civilian infrastructure (which, like it or not, is rare in the invasion of Ukraine in comparison with even the invasion of Iraq), etc.
Your comment being a good example of tankies denying Ukrainian genocide.
Why do you bring up tankies? I’m not talking about any communist state, I’m talking about the proto-fascist, contemporary Russian republic, and explicitly said you can condemn it.
Putin kills Ukrainian civilians, not because of their religion or genetics or culture but to terrorise them into submission so that they encourage their military to give up so that he gets to plunder their land and resources.
This is very different to the universally accepted definition of genocide as applies to The Holocaust, Rwanda, Cambodia.
Ireland is trying to get the ICJ to broaden the UN definition of genocide to include both the Ukraine and Gaza tragedies.
Idiots have decided the new definition of genocide is simply “when one side kills a bunch of people on the other side” and get angry when you point out how infantile that is.
Infantile indeed. The popularity of Marvel/DC movies is symptomatic.
It is the age of hyperbole and polarization. As if something is not a tragedy worthy of attention unless you can paint it as the worst thing ever.
And the solutions imagined are total fantasy. Jews aint leaving the Levant, neither are the Arabs.
I watched a BBC documentary which blew my mind recently, leaving no party looking clean in the Middle East conflict. Neither ProPal nor Zionist philosophy comes into it. The reality is too messy for the partisan minds: HyperNormalization: A Different Experience of Reality.
Being in my 60’s it has been years since I saw something so challenging. Since this is an anarchist community this should appeal although it is not hopeful. More like an examination of organised Chaos.
are American tankies not also funding Israel? if you pay taxes, you’re complicit, or at least that’s what it seems the meme is saying about liberals.
I think they meant the advocation for it, though the wording is a bit off.
Don’t even have to be an anarchist, just have to have at least partial hearing and/or vision.
Not even. I’m deaf and have terrible vision. In fact I was functionally blind for 8 months. And I can still see it!
Okay, have to have at least partial use of at least one sense.
So basically not be in a deep coma? Because I don’t think there is a disability where you losing touch hearing sight and smell.
I was going to suggest “be awake” and then realised I had accidentally re-invented the term “woke”
You’d have to get a bunch of ailments all at once. Deep coma is much simpler. Anyways, very obvious, most of us only, at most lack 1 or 2 senses. There’s no excuses for any of us to not “see” any of this.
You don’t even need a brain. Just a heart.
Even the UN gave up on pretending the Uighur genocide is real, you’re pushing outdate propaganda
The UN, where the CCP has veto powers?
China doesn’t have veto power over the UN Human Rights Council, which voted to reject debating this any further, over 2½ years ago: https://xcancel.com/un_hrc/status/1578003299827171330
We don’t allow Xitter links on on dbzer0, can you please change the link to https://xcancel.com/un_hrc/status/1578003299827171330 or a screenshot instead? Thanks
ok done
Thanks!
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/17/asia/uyghurs-muslim-countries-china-intl
https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2021/08/08/2003762216
So the story is that the US and our allies, who have spent decades villifying imprisoning and killing muslims, and who have repeatedly verifiably lied about similar human rights abuses to justify our foreign policy before, are the only ones who can be trusted to tell the truth about the conditions for muslims who just happen to be living in the country which is our single greatest global rival politically and economically, about whom we have an extremely obvious foreign policy motive for lying, but we’re definitely telling the truth this time and everyone else is lying? Every muslim majority nation on earth is apparently only supporting China because they’re either corrupt or too terrified to oppose them, despite the fact that the US has been completely unable to get similar results for Israel with our best efforts? And despite having the most advanced surveillance technology on earth, despite having satellites that can take high resolution pictures of any patch of dirt on earth and an unmatched intelligence network, the US has somehow been unable to obtain any incontrovertible physical evidence of this supposed genocide for years? And you believe that?
The US is not to be trusted and loves to manipulate the narrative. It’s good to fact check it, as the US does not have the Uighur people’s lived experience at heart.
Unfortunately, not does the PRC (and inviting journalists from friendly Muslim nations to talk to locals on camera to say everything is fine is one way to narrative shift and give a good media blitz). And while the PRC is probably not targeting Uighurs for organ harvesting any more than any other inmates in the prison system, it is a not a great situation for them there.
There are/were prison camps which provide “vocational training/reeducation”. The many non-Han people of the area are clearly second class citizens, and their cultural spaces have been commodified and turned into tourist spots.
Edit: Bitter Winter also has some stuff, but it’s bloggy and declared by China as “a hostile overseas media operation” … So your milage may vary?
Is this an actually good faith inquiry? Are you that deep in the kool aid?
Is this a good faith question? Or are you just looking for a convenient excuse to ignore my argument without having to actually address it? If you have an answer that makes sense, or see a problem with my logic or sources, then I’d love to hear it.
I’m just a bit incredulous that you actually think this argument would be convincing to anyone.
You don’t see any reason why dictators of Muslim countries might want to say nice things about China despite obvious abuses against the Uighurs?
I’ve got to log off but if no one has answered you more seriously later I’ll give it a go.
Any reasoning that applies to corrupt leaders of muslim countries in regard to China applies to those same leaders in regard to the US, if they can be bribed or blackmailed by one they can just as easily be bribed or blackmailed by the other, and in addition to any other methods of persuasion the US is far more able to credibly threaten their physical safety than China due to our global military presence and well documented history of successful regime change. If China can get them all to shut up and toe the line on the supposed Uighur genocide then why can’t the US get them to do the same for Palestine? There is no answer that makes sense, especially not for literally every single muslim majority nation on earth. The larger a conspiracy is the more likely it becomes that someone within it will talk, all it would take is a single government official of just one of their governments providing evidence of a payment or threat received from China about this to prove your hypothesis, but no such evidence exists. Either China has discovered some new method for keeping conspirators quiet that we can’t manage despite our resources, or there is no conspiracy.
Your incredulity also makes no sense. We’ve been caught lying to justify our foreign policy repeatedly before and enlisting all of the same major media outlets to cosign those lies that we have supporting these genocide accusations, despite years of diplomatic investigation and covert surveillance we have no substantiating physical evidence for a genocide in China or for the sort of sprawling organizational effort that would be necessary to compel the cooperation of so many separate governments, and we have an obvious motive to lie about all of the above. These are all verifiable facts and absolutely should be convincing to anyone who understands them.
Yeah I mean obviously lol I never said they’re not influenced by the US. The point is statements and policies by corrupt autocrats have no bearing the real situation on the ground. That’s not evidence, it’s politics. They will just say whatever is in their best interest regardless of the truth.
Your point about the US influence regarding Palestine is hilariously misinformed because they literally do that. That’s why none of these countries have done anything about Palestine. The only ones who have taken concrete actions are those that are basically already engaged in proxy wars with the west, such as Iran or the Houthis. Others like the Saudis, the new Syrian government and Egypt just want this issue to go away. That’s why Egypt is in the process of blocking the Gaza caravan as we speak. These autocrats don’t even care about their own people, let alone foreigners thousands of miles away.
Also, there are reasons the geopolitics favor the Chinese point of view on the Uighur issue. The CPC is obviously going to care a lot more about this issue than the US does because it’s a domestic security issue. For the US it’s just a way to tarnish China’s image, which of course they want to do, but it’s not a top priority. Furthermore, the ruling class is biased towards stability. They just want to keep exploiting people and living opulent lives in peace. They’re much more likely to try to ignore or diminish these problems than actually try to solve them because that risks pissing people off which could be dangerous for them. Finally, these countries also love to oppress their own people, so they’d just as soon everyone stop talking about human rights since that would obviously be to their benefit. Talking about prison camps in another country makes them more vulnerable to looking hypocritical when they engage in domestic repression.
And finally, there’s just abundant and overwhelming evidence of human rights abuses that don’t come from the US government, which yea, is obviously dishonest. The camps can be seen in satellite imagery, and the CPC acknowledges they exist but bizarrely claim that it’s good to force huge numbers of people into concentration camps. That’s such an unserious response that I don’t feel it’s necessary to respond to.
@fundmecfs this isn’t just a rhetorical question, I’d genuinely love to hear you explain this. Make it make sense for me!
Being anarchist is just stupid period
Yeah. Dad always said I’d rather be right than happy, and that would doom me.
He wasn’t wrong. I would be so much happier if i lied to myself, or had more tolerance for cognitive dissonance. But here i am.
Removed by mod
Not really. Libertarians are just socially embarrassed corporate statists.
Also, you say that as if not wanting money is a bad thing.