I don’t feel bad for the guy, but I don’t celebrate this sort of vigilante justice, either. Prisoners should be safe from other prisoners. Prison is not meant to be torture, and recidivism is a massive problem in the United States. Chauvin will have 20 years to contemplate his crimes, and treating him and every other prisoner will only reinforce their criminal proclivities.
American prisons ARE meant for torture. Don’t get it twisted.
If they were for rehabilitation or treatment, then we would see to that, societally. But we don’t.
This is a small piece of why our justice system is so absolutely fucked.
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Well both those things can be true.
Never forget, it’s actually legal to enslave prisoners according to the 13th Amendment.
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That’s a part of it, yes. It’s the slavery loophole in the 13th amendment.
Less of a loophole, more of an intended feature
Loopholes are things intentionally built into structures with the purpose of allowing something through. I find it weird so many people think loopholes aren’t something intentional.
I’m having a lot of trouble finding a source that backs up this position. Everything I’m reading says that loopholes are typically oversights, not intentional inclusions.
That being said, the 13th amendment’s allowance for prisoner slavery is not a loophole at all, it’s an explicit allowance. Loopholes are not explicit, that’s kinda the whole point of them. It’s a bit like saying that the standard deduction on your taxes is a loophole. It’s just an explicitly defined feature.
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lesser of two evils
Cheap domestic labor isn’t torture?
FWIW the vast majority of prisons in the US are not corporate run (>90%), but those majority government-run prisons still provide a lot of free/cheap manufacturing labor to private companies.
The government itself is to blame, not just private prisons.
13th amendment
i think you’re responding to a normative statement by making a descriptive statement.
for those unaware, here’s a quick explanation from wikipedia: a normative statement is “meant to talk about the world as it should be”, while a descriptive statement is “meant to describe the world as it is”.
If we could read we would be very upset.
the most niche grammar nazi
i wasn’t trying to talk about grammar at all, i was only trying to focus only on the meaning of what was said. but i probably could’ve made my point more clearly, so ill try to do that now.
here’s an “example”: one person says “things should be done this way” and the other person says “well things aren’t being done that way”. these two statements aren’t in opposition to each other. in fact, it’s perfectly possible both people agree with each other. maybe things aren’t being done a certain way, and they should be done differently.
the terms “normative” and “descriptive” might seem overly complicated to someone who hasn’t seen them before (they did the first time i saw them), but i thought i’d use them because they’re useful concepts to keep in mind. they’ve helped me communicate and resolve conflicts in my own life. i’ve been both people in the example above, and it’s helpful to be able to know when it’s happening.
The most based discourse nazi, singlehandedly preventing what could become a 30 comment deep argument where both sides fully misunderstand the other
Lemmy cannot read one word of your comment
Edit I’m fuckin stupid, leaving this comment up as a monument to my illiteracy
Making a comment like this about basic conversation and debate concepts is like driving and saying you can’t read the speed limit signs. Like, maybe you should avoid actively participating altogether until you’re actually able to
Huh? My point was many Lemmy users very commonly reply to someone’s descriptive comment with a normative complaint, and freak out when it’s clarified.
Wow I misread Lemmy as literally, I fuckered that one up bad lmao
i made the same mistake you did the first time i read their comment. your confusion helped me too!
So much this man. Guy was an asshole, but he and everyone else should be safe in prison.
Let’s start with making everyone else safe, then.
No disagreements here.
Very glad this is currently the top comment. I was worried I’d run into a comment thread cheering for violence that simply shouldn’t have happened.
The idea of “not killing” and “I wish he was dead” can’t seem live in most people’s head. I think he’s human waste, he should be dead, and I wouldn’t have lamented his death. BUT!!! I don’t want him to die and I don’t want someone to kill him.
Yeah dude is a piece of shit, but it’s a bit disheartening seeing people cheer on stuff like this.
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but I don’t celebrate this sort of vigilante justice, either
We don’t know what happened. He might have ran his mouth and found out he wasn’t a protected class anymore.
That doesn’t really change anything.
It does a little bit, I think.
Yes, our prisons should be safe for those who are confined within them. I agree with that, and that less people should be confined in the first place.
But there is a qualitative difference between “he was stabbed due to being a cop (or due to being THAT cop)” vs “He got into an altercation that resulted in him being stabbed, but which could have happened to anyone.”
I think the kneejerk assumption is that he was targeted, which is worse IMO.
Not that I shed a single tear for the fate of Derek Chauvin, mind you.
How is “that could’ve happened to anyone” any better?
Would you rather be in an unsafe environment where you are taking the same risks as anyone else by being there, or an unsafe environment where you are likely to be specifically and personally targeted for being you?
How is either acceptable?
You’ll have to ask someone who said either was acceptable.
I don’t think it’s possible to keep humans from harming each other if they want to
That is literally the point of prisons.
Doesn’t that prove his fuckin point? Even in something as locked down and controlled as fucking prison can’t stop humans if they truly want to harm others
You think prisons are locked down and controlled? Prisons are for-profit labor generators where slaves are treated like, well, slaves. Society accepts this because we act like they deserve subhuman treatment. We should not accept this.
to be fair, the united states doesnt care about the humans it pretends to ‘rehabilitate’. we dont care about recidivism, because our system is for punishment not for rehab.
other countries do a better job at fixing their humans than we do. can we start there?
I was just making the joke initially, a contrasting oversimplification.
But just because they don’t stop all violence, it doesn’t mean they don’t stop any violence. Prisons literally do keep murderers locked up instead of out harming others in the public. Are they flawless systems? Fuck no. There’s all kinds of shit wrong with the systems. But they definitely beat the alternative of having no prisons.
And you should look into improvised weapons they confiscate from prisoners.
Human creativity gets maxed out when you literally have nothing to do but sit in a cell all day for years. Just because someone is a criminal doesn’t mean they are completely stupid.
I have often wondered how many actual geniuses have been chewed up by the worlds prison systems. If only some of those people had gotten a fair chance in their life to have their skills developed in a healthy environment… It’s depressing to think about, actually.
In theory, yes, but that should be the point of education and social programs tbh. Even then, restorative justice models don’t rely as heavily on jail/prison. Temporary and maybe permanent removal from a specific environment doesn’t have to require fully sequestering perpetrators from society. Caught early enough, extreme examples of violent individuals can be rehabilitated through house arrest and other programs like anger management, therapy, etc. Saves taxpayer money, reduces recidivism, and victims report much higher satisfaction as they can actually face their perpetrator and be more involved in the process seeking accountability.
In practice, prisons prop up class and racial segregation, perpetuating capitalist agendas.
I agree with your broad sentiment that prisoners should feel safe in prison. However, this specific instance, I call (delayed) karma.
Maybe Chauvin stabbed himself in a state of “excited delirium.”
The important thing is, the inmate investigated himself and decided that he did nothing wrong.
He was probably making some “furtive movements” just before the incident.
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I’m sorely tempted to start circulating claims about what Chauvin had in his system at the time.
EDIT - Also, this shit:
Chauvin’s stabbing comes as the federal Bureau of Prisons has faced increased scrutiny in recent years following wealthy financier Jeffrey Epstein’s jail suicide in 2019. It’s another example of the agency’s inability to keep even its highest profile prisoners safe after Nassar’s stabbing and “Unabomber” Ted Kaczynski’s suicide at a federal medical center in June.
Oh it’s a problem all of a sudden. Can’t imagine why.
I’m sorely tempted to start circulating claims about what Chauvin had in his system at the time.
A shiv
Oh you…
A shiv in the form of a sharpened toothbrush
Yes. That’s… That’s what that is…
I’m sorely tempted to start circulating claims about what Chauvin had in his system at the time.
Are we certain the wound was caused by a stabbing and not “Incarceration Delirium”? Or maybe it’s a holy miracle stigmata!
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Weird thing to say.
Murderer. The proper way to refer to him, mainstream news, is “the murderer Derek Chauvin”. He was convicted of murdering George Floyd.
I don’t know, I like reminding everyone that he was a police officer when this sort of thing comes up.
How about " Convicted Murderer and disgraced police officer Derek Chauvin", that should keep most of us happy.
Disgraced police officer is redundant.
Nah that just drives home how much of a disgrace he is.
Disgraced police officer is redundant.
I’m loving the irony of this being accidentally double posted XD
I hope they leave them both up.
Temporarily embarrassed police officer.
Yep he is a murdering murderer who committed murderous murder against a murderless murderee who was murdered by said murder.
Fyi did you know murderee was a word? I just learned this.
Then should we call his victim “the drug dealer/abuser George Floyd”.
Why would we do that? Especially since neither of those have been proven in a court of law.
Yeah I’m not going to defend my shitty comment at this time
He should have just complied.
I feel this whole case is everything wrong with the justice system (aside from him actually facing consequences). A corrupt cop with a history of violence gets attacked in an overpopulated and understaffed prison where folks are punished instead of rehabilitated.
Right, none of these things should have happened at all. It’s just a negative feedback loop of incompetence and corruption.
This person spent a career throwing people into this exact system. Eagerly, if my perception of his past behavior after watching his entire trial is at all representative.
Yeah I think people are forgetting this was a cop who actively perpetuated this system. And not even in a “just following orders” sense, he seemed to delight in it.
System works as designed.
Prisons sure cost a lot of money to tax payers. Are you sure they’re understaffed or is the staff just apathetic
Yes to both. Keep in mind “understaffed” means lots of things to lots of people.
That prisons aren’t basically forced schools and therapy is an atrocity, to me, as an example. It changes the entire concept of what prison is about in ways I find unacceptable
I’d rather they were punished and rehabilitated. Both are necessary.
I’m of the opinion that, while the premise is agreeable it simply isn’t possible to rehabilitate police officers.
If someone can be rehabilitated, I believe that implies that they can be unhabilitated. It kinda implies that people aren’t inherently bad / don’t do bad things without something causing them to. If your dog shits inside because you forgot to take it out, do you punish it? If so, congratulations on being consistent, -ly an asshole.
are we sure he didn’t overdose? let’s not jump to conclusions here.
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OMG, I was 3 states away from this, can the fentynal poison me from there? I think I need a long term disability pension ASAP.
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I’m sure he would have been fine if he just complied.
He was injured in an inmate-involved stabbing
Of course this would happen, but yeah, he shouldn’t have been stabbed in prison. I hope that’s obvious to everyone.
It shouldn’t have but I’m not going to cry about it.
Yeah it’s one of those weird situational things. He definitely deserves to be in prison, and hard to argue against the stabbability, but when you do one at the same time as the other it seems wrong somehow
Sentence is supposed to be the thing that judge throws at you, and that should be it. The story doesn’t tell whether he was stabbed just for being who he is or whether he pissed somebody off. But it’s easy to imagine it’s the former in this case.
Should it have happened? No. Two wrongs don’t make a right, and all that. Prison shouldn’t be dangerous for inmates, no matter what they’ve done.
Am I upset to hear that the personification of “ACAB” got stabbed in prison? Also no.
In this thread: vicious assholes
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I’m just glad he survived. Death is an escape he doesn’t deserve yet. He’s got many more years of “fun” to look forward to.
While I don’t particularly rejoice at the idea of anyone getting stabbed, I also can’t possibly shed a tear for this guy.
I think it’s safe to enjoy this particular pig getting stuck
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- The prison system needs to be reformed / abolished. Chauvin wouldn’t have been in a position of power to kill Floyd if we didn’t revere carceral punishment in this country.
- There’s nothing wrong with the people who are happy about this. They’ve been taught that this is justice. They want justice and frankly they still haven’t seen it; Chauvin’s punishment is like taking a single drop out of an ocean of police atrocities. We should destroy the prison system, but let’s not destroy each other in the process.
I was pretty damn happy when Osama Bin Laden was killed and this stabbing doesn’t bother me much at all.
Interestingly, I’m the opposite. I have a hard time celebrating death, but since Chauvin lived I’m not much upset about it. Yeah, it’s because our prison system sucks and it shouldn’t have happened, but he spent his life in service of that shitty system so it’s got a nice ironic vibe to it.
Weird considering Laden was just a good peice of propaganda for AQ and more a figurehead than a real leader. Iirc, he was a rich guy they used as a way to lure normal people into joining - ‘this wealthy aristocrat gives up luxury to resist, you can too’.
Agreed but I’m not going to be sad for him. I’m sad for the unjustly jailed ppl that have to go through that.
When I was a teenager, I sat down and wrote out a list of rules for myself. One of which was “Act as would choose to when lying in bed later that night.” Meaning, don’t do something you’ll regret a few hours from now.
I didn’t feel the need to write that as “Don’t do anything that’ll get you shivved by a fellow inmate.”
And apparently neither did Chauvin.
It’s one of those fundamental rules in life. Don’t piss off the person making your food. Don’t piss off the person doing work in your house with power tools. Don’t piss off the doctor right before a surgery.
I’d say he deserves to have someone kneel on his neck for 9 minutes or so, not a stabbing
keeping people in cages is wrong. I think the stabby-stab is justice, here, and we can stop paying for his room and board and 24hour babysitting staff.
You’re right, he doesn’t deserve to be stabbed, he deserves to be choked out until he passes out.
Oh you’re the authority on shit-tier people, eh? Yeah I believe that.
It’s kinda freeing to be done with the disney channel ass idea that you should never celebrate others’ misfortune. It lets headlines like this be heartwarming instead of disappointing
That people are being stabbed in prison is an indictment on the barbarity of our prison system, so this should still piss you off.
I mean they basically just told you that they’re a sociopath, so I don’t think they care.
I think for many people it’s probably the “just desserts” factor of our barbaric system hurting somebody who was a very barbaric cog in that very system.
While I certainly understand the concept of schadenfreude, I don’t think it should be built into our systems, and that doing so is an unjust, unethical failure on our ability to govern ourselves.
We know this system does more harm than good but enable it because yeah, it does feel great when bad things happen to shitty people.
Not when it’s some asshat that killed a man for a bounced check. He pleaded for his life and called out for his mother. Fuck Derek. That dude can be stabbed 1 million times to teach other officers they aren’t above the laws they choose to preserve. He put his own law on full display. He reaped what he sewed.
Not this time, kiddo. Bad man gets bad treatment.
The barbarity of the US prison system is a feature, not a bug. Americans really seem to love exorbitant punishments, awfully similar to medieval Europe. Perhaps in a few centuries your culture will reach modern human rights standards.
Yea but do you realize how half those people got sent to prison in the first place? Besides petty non violent crimes those in that group I don’t count unless they get violent in prison as a result of prison itself. I mean I agree should havengot stabbed but there’s a reason most are in prison.
