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What I miss is normal nudes, the subreddit. The place for unposed nudes to show different body types, anybody, no boners and no advertising for your paid site; with a “if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all unless poster asked specifically for critique” comment policy.
Also nakedprogress. I miss the nonsexual nudes sites I guess.
Other than that, I don’t think what else I want is possible, all NSFW sites are just guy driven with nearly everything for men’s taste. That I don’t think can be adjusted if the audience is overwhelmingly male.l, it’s not a problem with lemmynsfw, just a state of the world thing.
I think it’s going OK overall, growing slowly and organically seems the way to go.
I really miss the normalnudes community too and the nakedprogress communities were always so supportive.
Other than that, I don’t think what else I want is possible
Out of curiosity, what exactly are you looking for if you don’t mind me asking?
Oh, just a space more balanced between men and women. I wouldn’t have any idea how to draw in more women, really have no idea even if my own preferences are typical.
Just so I’m clear in interpreting what you’re saying, are you implying that there is too much male content or that you would like to see a better 50/50 balance?
I think it’s mostly just because lemmy in general is more filled with men, and men are the market for most all of the pro sex world, so almost all the content is made specifically to appeal to men, and some of it incidentally appeals to women (or some of us) but not on purpose.
Unfortunately that’s most of the porn world in general and not a Lemmy specific issue I’m afraid 🫤 The smaller, techier community certainly skews that a bit further too.
As a bi man I know what appeals to me, but having women come around even if it’s just to leer isn’t ever a bad thing and would probably be healthy for this place. Do you have any specific kind of content that appeals to you that you wish you could find?
You mean appeals like a turn-on? Back in the days of print magazines, we used to have a porn addled friend who worked at a sex shop, had an enormous collection and would bring us boxes of porn, and every time he showed up, he’d say “And Forums, for the ladies!” I think he was pretty spot on. I do enjoy nudes, all genders, but more in a happy or interested way not usually much of a turn on? Except for the ones with implied power play, man in charge, or the 2 bi men 1 woman ones, those are hot. But mostly stories are where it’s at.
Yeah, I was mostly asking what kind of things work for you since you’re right about most posts being male focused. That’s good to keep in mind and I appreciate you sharing.
There is [email protected] that sees posts semi-regularly if you weren’t already aware. I don’t know that there’s enough to hold you over if you’re persistently lascivious, but it’s better than nothing.
What type of content draw more women in you think? i enjoy making OC and would be glad to make stuff that might have a larger appeal if i can.
Literotica type stuff? audio? naked guys? what are women looking for?
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That’s a good idea but I don’t know how much moderation would be needed. I helped on normalnudes and it was a constant battle vs. bots and closeup dick pics. Though on this site maybe it could have different rules just full body front & back and not worry about erections, I don’t think most people care. Naked progress yes I can set that up, let me see if there’s a shell already, I know there were some squatters here.
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I do mod a community on Lemmy-World, and that one I’ve had slow and steady growth and literally one (frivolous ) report and one comment I had to take down, in like six months, that’s been such smooth sailing. But here on NSFW I’m not sure, looked at the modlog for asknsfw and even that one so many nasty comments taken down :( I would want either of those communities to be positive spaces for sure. When I get some time I will try to set them up though.
I’ve noticed a pretty glaring trend of OC posters creating an account, posting for a few days, and then disappearing never to be seen again. Posting studio and model content found on the corners of the internet is fine, but in the end it doesn’t actually drive much engagement, which is essentially the primary purpose of a link aggregator site. The primary content people engage on are going to be things that a person has taken the time to create themselves or something with a clear gimmick, like the ifyouhadtopickone or kink communities.
Personally, I’d say that the reason we’re seeing people drop off the site shortly after joining is because of the overall community at large. When anyone from the Fediverse can just drop in on a whim and comment something disparaging to someone who went out of their way to post themselves it really doesn’t feel great. Combine that with the fact that if you’re not a professional model or Onlyfans producer, you’ll be downvoted pretty heavily even with the rules changes in place.
I try my best to go out of my way to comment on anything I reasonably can and I don’t know if I can place exactly why, but the instance feels both simultaneously hostile to post and to comment/engage in at the same time.
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Reddit has hundreds of millions of users and the platform is highly active, making it suitable for pros to submit work for profit. Or as a means for amateurs to break in and see if they can build an audience.
Reddit is a business plan for many creators. The large audience there gives submitters incentive to put up with the horrible abuse they face from poor moderation and terrible users. And still, as you note, OC creators flee. Comparing our relative numbers of fleeing contributors per capita as being similar to Reddit isn’t the win you seem to be arguing for.
Look, when some of the largest communities don’t see posts for weeks, that’s a sign something is wrong. We have disincentivized contribution to the point where stagnation has set in. That’s a clear sign some change is in order. What that change should be, I don’t know. But simply refusing to accept these clear signs as doom and gloom leads to refusing to recognize a problem. And if you don’t see a problem, you can’t act to fix it.
We saw a decrease in users when there were mass downvotes, we changed how downvotes worked and since then we’ve seen and increase in activity.
We’re talking about implementing automod features, not sure how soon that’ll happen, but it will definitely happen.
Another thing that disincentives some people is the lack of filtering of rude comments, if a comment is rude or downvoted on reddit it is automatically hidden, so maybe that is something we can look into for when we implement automod
Just know that we’re not just sitting on our laurels doing nothing, the mods and admins are constantly talking about how to improve this community
That all sounds like progress.Thank you and the team for your hard work!
I’d agree that the overall trend for posters is probably similar and you have a fair point there. I wouldn’t say empathy is any different, but it’s important to keep in mind that different styles of social networks will absolutely attract certain types of peoples. I’m not making an assertion that this is good or bad, or who may be present in this community because of this, but it’s something to keep in mind as your average Instagram user and Fediverse user will likely have vastly different opinions, priorities, goals, and use-case for the platform.
I don’t think it’s fair to say that the doom and gloom is overstated. When you have a smaller platform and community, small issues are far more recognizable and have a greater overall impact if left unchecked.
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In the end that comes down to moderation. I don’t mean to imply that mods and admins are doing a bad job in any way, but they’ll always be fighting a losing battle. The manpower and tools just aren’t advanced enough to deal with it all before the damage is done.
I know you mentioned it in another comment and I’ve mentioned it before in the past, but the instance overall always feels like it’s having an identity crisis and doesn’t know what it wants to be. Sexuality is a very broad spectrum and the nature of that means that most people are going to find the sheer existence of certain parts of that spectrum that don’t include them unsavory or offensive.
Before anyone grabs a pitchfork, I’m not saying it should be a free for all and predatory things like pedo and beastiality absolutely need to be banned, but if you’re someone who isn’t into kink or gay or whatever else then there’s always going to be friction with those that are. Personally I’d say the instance as a whole needs to take a more specific stance on what it wants to host for this specific stage of growth.
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Restricting access would probably not be successful. It would just fragment and wall off significant sections of the already small communities.
That is absolutely what would happen. I’m a mod for a sex positive community on reddit and we tried this. Once a user managed to get into the private / closed sub they no longer wanted to post in the main / public one and that caused all kinds of problems.
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AutoMod tools are the answer, if a comment has certain keywords, or even a negative sentiment a good automod can remove the comments pretty much immediately. We’ve talked about automod for awhile, and I definitely want it, I’m going to start experimenting with existing solutions soon.
We’ve talked about wanting to implement an automod solution for awhile, and finally there are some tools for that, I personally am going to start experimenting with some of the tools, and will begin to provoke more chats with the other admins to start creating a plan of action in regards to that.
Also, as far as separate instances like that, that can get muddy, I think, unless you have a really clear definitions of what’s “too hardcore.”
What we don’t allow on the site are
- things that are illegal (like CSAM and beastiality)
- things that would be illegal to host on the sites servers because of where they’re located (like animated beastiality, shota and loli)
- things that are generally considered very extreme (like scat and barf)
The last one is because lemmy doesn’t have a good automod system and most people don’t want to see that kind of thing. I would argue that, outside of those things, what people are into varies greatly and that’s why we allow pretty much everything else.
I think the problem lies in the fact that, unlike reddit and most other social media platforms, lemmy has no personalized algorithms. This means that everyone on an instance gets the same “hot” and “active” page. So I think the main reason the content seems all over the place is because the algorithms aren’t personally catered. Reddit has just as many, if not more, niche communities, but their “best” and “hot” pages have personalized algorithms so that you see more of what you like.
Personalized algorithms like that aren’t insanely difficult to create, but it’s the nuances of it that are difficult. It’s something I would like to look into and partner with some of the other admins that have dev experience to maybe create for use on any lemmy server, but as of now there is nothing developes on that front.
That being said, I don’t think the answer is to split the content even more by making more instances and then having potentially even more uncertainty about what is and isn’t allowed.
I think the answer is for us admins and mods to continue to do our best to reduce toxicity, to continue to improve our mod tools, and continue to have active discussions about what would be good for the growth of the instance.
But if you have other reasoning that you feel that the instance is having an identity crisis, I’m all ears, we’re always open to constructive criticism and suggestions to improve the overall user experience on the instance
The downvoting on pure amateur content seems quite aggressive. But perhaps that’s a matter of building the right community or communities for that particular aspect. Wife and I love sharing content but it’s not always going to be hyper-produced. Can’t think of a real solution but it might end up driving us away. I’m sure we are not alone on that sentiment.
I feel this so much, never got the downvotes in reddit. usually my OC was simply ignored if not liked, upvoted if liked. it’s brutal here.
With a whole full week here, I am starting to feel it depends on the community and it’s composition. It’s not LemmyNSFW specific if that makes sense. Some folks will go out of their way to upvote every post, some will do the same with downvotes on anything that triggers them, others will simply skip on to the next post and do nothing. All 3 are perfectly fine IMO.
But it’s a contrast with Reddit where I’ve spent a few years. Reddit NSFW communities tend to drown amateur/ sub-wow content by ignoring that content (gut feeling, I’ve no hard analytics to back that up) and upvote produced stuff. The exception is on very specific kink /r’s
I know you’re relatively new around here and there’s been a lot of discussion and changes regarding downvotes in recent months. They were completely disabled for a while, but currently you need to be a subscribed member of a community for it to register. You are not alone I’m your feelings regarding user behavior. I appreciate that you’re sharing yourselves at least!
Don’t judge me, I am a tech geek --and hopefully this doesn’t break any rules but, I’ve been working around Lemmy itself trying to figure out how to get some basic analytics for myself. Got some interesting --and perhaps obvious data points that I am looking forward to continue see develop as we share more OC material.
Positive Sentiment by Community is just a weighted average between up / down votes. It essentially shows me which communities are more/less welcoming to OC content produce by my wife and I. That’s all.
Perception by Community just distills the above purely on
upvotes / (upvotes + downvotes)represented as a %Engagement by Community on the other hand is the total of votes
+--I am working to include comments by anyone except the OP as well. This one, IMO, is the metric we should be watching to gauge true engagement.Cheers!
Very interesting!
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So we have ants then
Grrrrrrrr… 😠
Hey, fair point; interesting perspective, though, given this is where we share and enjoy all sorts of kinks.
There is always going to be the majority of people who are all attracted to the same or similar traits.
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We’re working on the hostility aspect, it’s slowly improving, and we’re slowly getting more OC posters, it just takes time.
As an admin I see more and more posts in general and more OC posts every day. Our growth is slow and organic, and until there’s larger roadblocks on reddit it’ll probably stay that way, but given reddit is going public this year, we will most likely see some of those road bumps start to happen.
Until then, the admin team and mods are working to get her to reduct toxicity and make it a good place to post, we’ve even implemented some bespoke code to prevent mass downvotes, and we’re talking about implementing some sort of automod. We will continue to improve the experience as best we can and we will continue to slowly but surely grow.
Where is it going -> porn
Where do I want it to go -> porn
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I think first, there’s a decline in the general Lemmy userbase. Partly, this is because of unaddressed Federation bugs that have persisted now for weeks without being publicly addressed. That’s driven a lot of contributors away, which has feed on effects across communities. That’s structural and beyond LemmyNSFW, but affects us.
Second, here at LemmyNSFW, poor community moderation. There are dead communities admins will not address because of top mod ownership rules. But that so many subscribe to dead communities shows the decline. Reddit prunes unmoderated communities for a reason.
Mods also let creeps post horrible comments and don’t filter them out or ban abusive users, and this has driven away contributors. Especially amateurs and OF creators. I’m of the opinion they are bread and butter here and driving them away reduces overall value of the site. So while I’m into the kink side, I want c/gonewild to thrive.
Third, there are the serial downvoters. Admins thought requiring people to join communities in order to vote would solve this problem. No, because their goal is to suppress contributions overall, so they just join to downvote. This is why you see a top community like c/anal or c/blowjobs wither with no submissions. They’re killed early on. And that drives away contributors. Whether that’s contention over the top page or just a desire to see LemmyNSFW fail, I don’t know. But IMO downvotes only express aggression and don’t help curate content. They serve to drive away contributors.
We need more contributors, not less. And the decline in contributions says something is seriously wrong. It’s like a reverse Tragedy of the Commons, where instead of overgrazing by all, we have a few trampling the commons out of spite.
Finally, there is the lack of rich media. Only pics and RedGifs, both limited. And gifs get converted to webm, which don’t autoplay or loop in LemmyUI. Another Lemmy issue, beyond the site here, but is one cause of declining interest IMO.
This is JMO and is said with all due respect and deference to the community and site admins.
I think first, there’s a decline in the general Lemmy userbase. Partly, this is because of unaddressed Federation bugs that have persisted now for weeks without being publicly addressed. That’s driven a lot of contributors away, which has feed on effects across communities. That’s structural and beyond LemmyNSFW, but affects us.
Although there is definitely a component of this, I think the trends we’re seeing predates the 0.19.0 issues. If anything I think we’re in a healthier place than say two months ago, but that’s largely propped up by a handful of individuals.
Third, there are the serial downvoters.
One thing that came up during the downvote removal discussion is that the ‘mark as read’ feature requires voting to register. Combining this with the fact that users don’t liberally block as much as they should and it’s a recipe for issues.
Frankly I never thought the subscribed only downvote was a good idea and it’s just prevented community moderation. Needing to subscribe to a community to downvote a post with a broken link is frustrating and the barrier is still too low to stop bad actors as a whole.
Users who block do so out of personal interest. That is, there’s something they don’t want to see, so they remove it from their feed. This is as intended. Therefore, those who persistently downvote have different reasons than simply not wanting to see something. No, either they’re voting tactically to benefit their own submission, as OP suggests, or to suppress the existence of whatever content they’re voting on. In both cases, these are the bad actors you refer to. Because their interest in voting is not to curate but to destroy. That particular community, or perhaps the site itself.
I think there are people on Lemmy who wish to see NSFW content entirely removed from the network. We saw an immediate defederation by the .ml communities, for example. These are closely linked to Lemmy devs, who seem to have an ideological purpose behind creating Lemmy, .ml standing for Marxist-Leninist. Now, ironically, Marx and Engles both wrote in support of women’s economic and sexual freedom. I think Engles in particular would have been pleased at the idea of women doing with their bodies as they wish, even if that was exhibitionist on a platform like this. And it should be noted, the Leninist October Revolution led to a sexual liberation movement in Russia that was only suppressed by Stalin after he gained power.
I don’t think devs and the .ml community have read deeply into the original sources they espouse. But regardless, I think there are some people who want to see LemmyNSFW fail. And they’re actively working to achieve that end.
Many users are trained in voting behaviors from other platforms well before they find this corner of the internet. For a lot of younger users who may never have lived without algorithmically decided content the downvote could very well be a misguided attempt at curation. This is just to give a devils advocate argument the benefit of the doubt. Regarding bad actors, if these slightest and petty people they will get bored eventually. If it’s a form of vote manipulation, then it’s really not very effective in the first place since most posts are slow burns around here. It would likely be trivially simple to set up a bot to autosubscribe and downvote all posts as a matter to undermine the community. This would be pretty easy to root out though for anyone with database access.
The ability to decide what you want on your own instance is part of the Fediverse and Lemmy by design. .ml isn’t the only instance to defederate from instances that allow NSFW content and they reserve the right to control what is hosted on their own instance.
Assuming malice based on ideological differences isn’t productive for anyone though. If the devs wanted to undermine the ability for NSFW to be used on the platform they would do it at the code level and not resort to covert tactics to remove it. Not to comment on the devs views on Marxism, but I was also under the impression that .ml was just because they used a mali domain while they were still freely available. I think you’re right that there are certain people that want to see the instance fail for whatever reason and are doing the only thing they know how. The world is filled with small, petty people with as much time as they have hate.
I think you’re very right about a misunderstanding of what upvotes and downvotes do on lemmy, the system that serves posts to users is very simple in lemmy, and some semblance of an algorithm would help a lot.
I also think the downvote issue wasn’t as big of an issue on Reddit because they’ve always fudged their numbers post scores, even moreso when the platform was smaller. They would intentionally make the number of votes fluctuate to prevent downvotes brigading and they would even limit how many votes could be applied to a post at one time. That’s why the top posts of subreddits used to stay the same for literal years, if that many peoples votes made it through, that meant the post got REALLY popular. Maybe that’s something else we could look into.
Here’s a lemmy dev’s essay selection. Now, to be clear, I’m fine with the reading list. I’m all for reading. And I support his right to espouse whatever political beliefs he wishes. But I understand the central Lemmy devs do espouse these beliefs, and the .ml sites are hardline political sites with little allowance for divergent opinion. It’s easy to get banned there. And they defederated for a reason.
Third, there are the serial downvoters.
Would it make sense to just disable the downvote button on the instance? I know others have done that.
BeeHaw did that. That’s one option. Another might be to try tweaking the sorting algorithm. A third might be to institute more stringent mod rules in countering abuse directed at contributors, especially OC contributors who expose themselves - both their bodies and their emotions - to public scrutiny. Can you imagine what it must feel like to post imagery of your nude body, only to get critical comments about your appearance, or lude PMs demanding sexual favors, and see no enforcement of community guidelines?
Perhaps some mix of all three. Or something I haven’t thought of.
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I don’t know motives. I can’t read minds. But that it drives away contributors is something I’m pretty sure of.
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The three are not exclusive to each other. All three add volume. Porn needs volume. Quality is what the user like, which like porn tastes are diverse.
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Hell yeah… PORN rules MFs 🤘🤘…
It’s quite simply more volume at this stage.
Worrying about quality and restrictions and nuances is a moot point at this stage. Lemmy needs more porn content.
With that will come the differences in quality and opinions on what people like and dislike. These will spawn additional communities.
But to start we need more volume and content to bring in people. We are the start. Other arguments about directions is like debating what courses your meal should have when all you have is a packet of ramen.
Would be nice to see more OC content and even the bit more artsy attempts, like BW photos, polaroids and such, the kind of content that you can still find on tumblr or some reddit subs (bwnudes, bwerotica, etc).
We often browse all platforms for inspiration but this dry repost from redgif and the same pictures from the last 20 years is kinda vibe killing, might work for some tho, it’s not much to “lure” more people because, as we see, it can be easily found everywhere else. So why would they “install one more app”.
So in general the community needs to grow with more genuine content creators, but it’s kinda hard upscale without getting flooded by OF spam machines (like on reddit).
How to recruit? Good question.
The positive: we get way more upvotes here compared to reddit because of the less noise i guess. Not so many comments tho, except our only fan here Pirate_Barnes 🥰
I’m guilty of upvoting and not commenting, I’ll have to make more of an effort because you always post great pics of yourselves 🙂
Thank you for the love 🥰
That’s my biggest fan too!!
He even wrote a message when we stopped posting for a few weeks. ☺️
Nice!
I would like to see two things. First, more porn. It’s on the right track but keep it going. Have some of the more niche topics be more popular.
Second, more discussions like this. Ask BDSM has around 5 posts. Yes this group has some. But more respectful and good discussions is something I’d like more of.
Hi! Mod here there. Would love to see your contributions! Or anyone’s for that matter. Thanks for noticing!
I guess my issue is that other than ideological reasons (reddit alternatives are good) there’s nothing that NSFW Lemmy does better than anywhere else i go.
My niches/kinks/preferences aren’t represented or are actively denigrated in the bigger NSFW communities and the smaller more niche ones don’t have the activity or quantity of posts to make this place a “must visit” or introduce me to things i haven’t seen before
Instead of becomes an app i only remember to check every week or two, compared to something like Mastodon, which i use daily.
then when i try to submit something to a community the Sync app gives me an “this image cannot be uploaded” error with no further explanation and i decide that posting the 5-10 images i found actually isn’t worthwhile after all.
I’m really glad this place exists but I’m struggling to participate in it
Yup. Not enough content. Too many debates.
Also nothing unquie.
It’s porn. Keep is simple. More is more. Let’s the place evolve into niches rather than force it and control it at the get go. It’s like worrying about macros when there is a famine.
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I would recommend uploading to carbox or redgifs and pasting the link into the post, even on the subs on reddit mod that’s what I tell people. The site image hosting solutions on both lemmy and reddit aren’t great.
I personally like catbox because you don’t have to make an account.
Additionally, growth takes time, some of the kinks with the platform will be slowly worked out, and more people will come, our usersbase since the initial dropoff of users has slowly being going up for the most part.
About a decade ago, Reddit was also a site you checked every week or so. I think our growth is already faster than those old days of Reddit, and it may take a year or two for things like better more users, better mod tools, better post algorithms, and more stability in apps to show up, but for a social media network that isn’t for profit, lemmy us doing very well and will continue to get better and better and thrive more and more
My niches/kinks/preferences aren’t represented or are actively denigrated in the bigger NSFW communities
Did you try FetLife?
Oh I’m sorry, i meant specifically “photos and illustrations of the kinds of women i specifically like tend to get downvoted here on NSFW Lemmy and the niche communities aren’t active enough”
The corresponding Reddit subreddits are active enough that i don’t have have to visit any general purpose subreddits.
IRL I’m happily married. Spouse and i are pretty open minded about porn/hentai/NSFW
Ah ok it was just a suggestion. Because on fet pretty much anything goes, no kinkshaming :) But yes Reddit is still pretty good for some niches.
It’s indeed sad that it happens here sometimes though it’s more people downvoting in the hope to see less of the content in their feeds. I don’t think that actually works because the amount of content here is so low that you get to see everything anyway unless you block the sub communities.
This isn’t a feature of the instance specifically but a feature that really helped me find new NSFW content. In certain Reddit apps I was able to filter by only NSFW content and in one there was a random NSFW subreddit option. It was so helpful to be able to easily discover new content. No Lemmy app has implemented anything with a NSFW focus.
That’s why I came to this instance. I can just browse local since that filter doesn’t exist.
I agree, discoverability of these these types of things needs to be better. Perhaps we can implement something like that, or have a community of the week or something. This is a very good point.
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Maybe I’m just not looking in the right spots, but I’d like to see more engagement. One of the things I enjoyed most about Reddit was that the comments were generally pretty lively, even if it was just folks being horny. Here it feels a lot like screaming into the void, people see posts and votes are cast, but there’s not really any conversation. I get that nobody wants to be the guy in need of horny jail, but I feel like something as simple as “that porn star is super hot, have you seen her in X?” or “she has a great figure, but only posts mildly on Instagram” would be a nice way to this place feel less dead.
Definitely agree with this
Porn, and more porn
Apparently this post it’s having some engagement I just would like to say if there is any person who like hot butters too they should make a community I believe it will be an amazing community for LemmyNSFW.
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I have no time to work for free, but maybe there it’s someone who would… 🤣🤣 I mod two communities but I would like someone else to admin them they are dead AF.
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Hot butters it’s about Butter Face women(but-her-face) women with hot body but ugly AF face.
