let’s gooo
And if they don’t vote, it won’t matter.
So help them vote. Volunteer with efforts to get out the youth vote. Push for universal mail in voting where you are, or at least early voting. Help get politicians and initiatives on the ballot that they actually care about.
Shaming and complaining about the demographic you want to reach accomplishes nothing.
Obligatory-
If you are a legal resident of Wisconsin, and are not currently serving time or on paper, you can register to vote entirely online if you want, and you can request absentee ballots for all elections for the entire year (no reason needed, but necessary annual renewal, it’s my New Year’s resolution every year because it’s so easy to accomplish. entirely free of charge ofc.).
Just go to www.myvote.wi.gov to register, request absentee ballots, check your registration, or find your polling place. If you have any difficulty with your registration, you can find your local rep and contact them directly.
Please vote. Please vote for your own wellbeing. Please.
Edits to fix link redirect per convo below
This is why I love Washington. Everyone has an OPT OUT absentee ballot. Everyone gets one at your address. Every election. All the time. The same address that’s on your ID. It’s amazing.
Hi, your link (the actual link, not the link text) is to https://www.reddit.comwww.myvote.wi.gov .
So you went somewhere different than I did… weird…
For me it comes up https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/www.myvote.wi.gov
I typed it in though… the link and link text are the same, so that shouldn’t happen.
i see what happened.
you typed
[www.myvote.wi.gov](www.myvote.wi.gov)in your comment’s source. for it to register as a URL you have to put https before the link inside the parentheses:[www.myvote.wi.gov](https://www.myvote.wi.gov).for me it goes to https://pawb.social/post/www.myvote.wi.gov (my instance, error: couldnt_find_post)in your comment’s source it is written [www.myvote.wi.gov](www.myvote.wi.gov), which shouldn’t behave like this. looks like a lemmy bug maybe?i have two theories:1. the bug is related to typing a link directly, as in pasting a link in the comment, like example.com (i typed it without brackets for a name or parentheses for a URL)or2. it’s related to links explicitly starting with www, such as what you linked.for testing purposes:you can report lemmy issues at https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues. i searched on there to see if it was already reported but couldn’t find anything, though if you want to i’d recommend searching.Hey thanks, I changed it and that did the trick.
I guess it makes sense that would be a thing. I’m so used to everything accommodating for that lack, though lol
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It doesn’t work. Every swiss citizen older than 18 receives them at home. The younger generation doesn’t vote.
I’m older now and the older I’m the more people of my age around me vote. It’s depressing. I try each time to make the younger vote but it’s not working. And, I didn’t miss one. Next one is the 3rd March. I will try again.
Don’t take me wrong if I convince if just one younger person, it’s a win.
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I hope things will change, but we still have abysmal turnout. TX started allowing early voting over 40 years ago and we still struggle to get people to the polls. Early voting is a span of 2 weeks, where in the 1st week, polls are required to be open for at least 9 hours and can be open from 6 AM to 10 PM on the weekday and shortened hours on the weekend, and in the 2nd week, polls are required to be open at least 12 hours a day and typically have the same hours as election day. Yet we still have virtually no lines through all early voting and a massive line on election day.
It doesn’t help that the news only bangs the final day of voting into peoples’ heads.
Many Republicans vote exactly on election day because they are being fed lies that early voting and mail in voting are riddled with fraud.
That explains a few people, but doesn’t explain why everyone else hasn’t been utilizing the early voting system for the 40 years prior to 2020. TX cities are pretty blue and their early voting lines are always very short.
no u
I’ve been helping my fellow zoomers by figuring out what their townships/town wards/city districts are, then what their local/state/federal legislative/executive/judicial districts are, then who’s running for what position, then where to vote and (primaries and generals).
Information is power!
But both sides are the same or my vote is worthless or it’s too hard to vote or something
That said, election day not being a federal holiday is a crime.
In Australia it’s always on a Saturday, and it’s compulsory to vote. Works OK for us.
that sounds like a way for democracy to actually represent the will of the public. DEFINITELY not what they want in the U.S.
In Finland it’s on Sunday. And with I think two weeks to vote beforehand.
In Canada, we get mail in voting, advanced voting and voting stations are everywhere. I’ve never had to wait more than 5 mins to vote and the closet voting station is a 2 min drive from my house. They’re also open late and most employers give us time off to vote. Not sure if there’s a law for that but voting here is easy af yet some people still don’t bother.
Which, while a good idea, still screws over the working class that don’t get federal holidays off. In fact in many industries they are mandatory work days because of the increased business.
State and federal opt-out mail ballots for all I say.
It is genuinely too difficult in some places thanks to voter suppression.
if you think both parties are the same you’re living in a fkn alternate reality. Only one part is seeking to end democracy in America and set up reeducation camps
Sarcasm
Yeah, those are all actually true.
Yes, but political engagement can’t revolve around voting.
It’s shit. You have to navigate a beurocracy and don’t even always have choices down the ballot. And when you do, you often have no idea who the candidates are beyond some half baked Facebook page. It’s also a huge burnout pit. Put months of stress into a binary outcome you can barely control. And even that is if you’re engaged in canvassing and etc, otherwise it’s just a chore.
Youth need to be mobilized in long term action projects. Something like Encode Justice for example, where they make civic engagement a part of their daily life, is far superior. It’s also harder, but that comes with doing something actually impactful.
Things can change, though. California voted for an open primary in 1996 (think that was the year) and now you can participate in either one. Prior to that, you could only vote in the primary for the party you registered with.
Open primaries invite strategic voters to sabotage the party they want to lose rather than supporting the candidate they want to win.
Of course you can still do that with closed primaries—you just have to register as the party you want to vote for in the primaries, ignoring your own preferences. Nothing forces you to vote for your registered party in the general election. It’s slightly more involved this way since you would need to change your registration more frequently, and commit to it earlier, but that isn’t much of a hurdle.
Sadly some of them are republican
Not sure why you’re being downvoted - you’re 100% correct. People voting against their own demographic is nothing new.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews
Please get out and vote.
I really hope that they do.
Because I am worried about the camps.
We’re all worried about the camps.
Unless all these Gen Z kids actually fucking VOTE it won’t matter, because Boomers fucking do.
Oh, you think the choices are trash? Well fucking vote in the primaries then. Get involved at a local level, and start promoting candidates that represent you. Don’t just bitch and moan that the choice is between a codger and senile draft-dodger.
Because people are already jumping to conclusions without reading the article. Here is the core of the survey data.
https://www.axios.com/2024/01/23/gen-z-less-religious-more-liberal-lgbtq
Identifying as Republican went from 32% in the Boomer Generation to 21% in Gen Z. Identifying as LGBTQ+ went from 4% with Boomers to 28% with Gen Z.
28% LGBT is what seems dubious. Lot of spicy straights in that pool I suspect.
I think people are feeling more inclined to label themselves as LGBTQ when they’re heteroflexible as well as young people better recognizing things like the asexuality spectrum.
Nah, just more people admitting they’re bisexual.
Yeah that’s not right. No other poll shows it being that high, but they found one they “agree” with and used that number lol
The B part of LGBTQIA+ is doing some heavy lifting in this stat. And as usual there’s probably a lot of women who are straight but think they’re Bi because “Margot Robbie could probably get it if that was an option” kinda like a lot of guys who think admitting a guy looks good makes them gay
What’s a spicy straight?
Someone who is straight but tells people they are queer.
Can’t remember.
Because people are already jumping to conclusions without reading the article. Here is the core of the survey data. Identifying as Republican went from 32% in the Boomer Generation to 21% in Gen Z. Identifying as LGBTQ+ went from 4% with Boomers to 28% with Gen Z.
The conclusion I would have jumped to is that the percentage of Gen Z who identified as LGBTQ+ would be greater than that who identified as Republican. So it seems I don’t actually need to read it. 😜
Once the hateful boomers die out, the republican party will be finished. They know this and is why they have been focusing on voter suppression so much.
They’re more powerful and influential than you think - they’re not going anywhere. They might change their policies to suit the times (remember Lincoln was a Republican) but the so-called “Grand Old Party” ain’t going nowhere unfortunately.
If they pull a reverse Southern strategy and jump over and their become more left then the Democrats, I would be willing to vote for them. Also, hell freezing over might help with global warming.
It’s not the name that’s the issue. Whether they’re called “Democrat” or “Republican” doesn’t matter.
It’s their backwards-ass, regressive, hateful policies that I don’t vote for.
If they start saying they’re going to force companies to take accountability for their impact on the climate, pledge to give the country a UBI, and socialized healthcare, I’d vote for a “Republican” so fast that I’d need new tires.
If they start saying they’re going to force companies to take accountability for their impact on the climate, pledge to give the country a UBI, and socialized healthcare, I’d vote for a “Republican” so fast that I’d need new tires.
I’m willing to go along with that, but with the recognition that between now and when we both die of old age we’ve got a greater chance of seeing absolute proof of intelligent extraterrestrial life than we do of seeing this happen believably enough for either of us to actually pull that lever.
I remember seeing this comment on Digg while people speculated that W would be the last republican president elected for a generation.
To be fair, he didn’t win his first election by getting the most votes, and neither did Trump.
The Republicans realized during the Reagan administration that they would soon be unable to win the presidency with a majority of votes and took many steps to undermine the Democratic process. Voter suppression, purges, intimidation, voter ID laws, all of that began with Reagan.
Bush the elder was the last to win a “democratic” victory. If it weren’t for 9/11, Bush wouldn’t have been able to win his second election either. That fact always blows my mind. Like people rallied around the incompetent fool who managed to ignore warnings and let a terrorist strike happen only to then go on and invade the wrong country multiple times and spend trillions of dollars on nothing.
I don’t disagree. I’m just calling out the whole “things will change when conservatives start dying off” trope because people have been banking on that for 20 years.
They keep living!
" ya don’t change horses midstream 🤠" was a literal campaign ad phrase back then I remember
Boomers have a lot of lead accumulated in their brains, not entirely their fault
That was so dumb. We literally had a President die in office during the biggest war humanity has ever seen, and we still won. Not only that, but Truman was kept out of the loop on a lot of things (“What’s the Manhattan Project all about?”).
If the US president got elected by getting the most votes, there wouldn’t have been a Republican since Bush senior. I really don’t understand why electoral reform is not higher on the political agenda in the US.
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That’s right wing spin.
Only the politically ignorant believe it.
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You’re still hurting over Bernie. That’s cute.
Politically that was a long time ago and you’re still holding a grudge over it. This is why the Democrats lose.
Many on the left needs to be placated with something new every election cycle while the right votes without any hesitation.
The DNC would actually benefit here because the popular vote would always bring in a Democrat. It’s the small, red states that will never let change happen because Wyoming enjoys having more direct representation than California.
The PEOPLE would benefit since they are the ones doing the voting, not the states. It is just as ridiculous that Republicans in California have little say in the presidency as Democrats in Wyoming.
It is just as ridiculous that Republicans in California have little say in the presidency as Democrats in Wyoming.
The Republicans in California have a better chance of seeing a Republican president with the electoral college than they would with a national popular vote, even if their particular votes carry less weight. In a sense that gives them more representation in the end, not less—their voices are ignored but they get what they wanted anyway.
These things are not mutually exclusive.
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Or because it would take a constitutional amendment. The only way around that would be making the electoral college irrelevant via the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact which has largely only been signed by democratic leaning states. In fact, of the states that have passed it, zero have been right leaning.
There are certainly shitty corporate democrats that do fall into your category but to say the party as a whole is that way is ignorant.
That must be why Republican-dominated states have passed the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. /s
Having it based purely on a popular vote will still wind up with a 2 party system. Ranked voting needs to be implemented. All of the benefits of a popular vote, with actual checks and balances to elevate 3rd parties.
The Democratic party and Republican party are united in their opposition to electoral reform because they both benefit the most from it.
This was the deal with the devil that people in the North made with people in the South to convince people in the South to join them in a government specifically set up to defy the British. The US as a democracy has always failed because it was designed to give ultimate executive power to the states rather than to the people.
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So far he’s the last to win the popular vote (and only for his second term).
Yeah this has been a thing forever. DeSantis was the strong culture war candidate too and… yeah. Trump has a clear role in culture war but he doesn’t seem to care personally, he flip flops all the time on many culture war issues depending on what is convenient or funny to say in the moment.
It’s almost like he’s playing both sides of many issues; as a conman does and as the mark allows.
It’s important to remember that collapse doesn’t happen overnight, and then suddenly it does. It takes a great deal of times for cracks to form and a structure to fall, but once it goes, it goes.
They nearly overrode the vote last time around. They faced no consequences and they’re very close to being in a position to do it again and make lasting changes to seize power forever. Nothing good is guaranteed.
And they’re rewriting education including made up history to ensure that more kids are conservative in future generations. Things aren’t looking good.
They faced no consequences
Except the 200+ people who were convicted and are currently sitting in jail.
And, as cynical as we might be, we have to remember that Trump’s various trials are not over yet.
Ues. The pawns were convicted and the people with actual power faced no consequences. The ringleader could very well be elected president where he ignored the law consistently. His trials keep getting delayed and the corrupt judge he appointed keeps helping him. It’s very scary times.
They literally have plans on concentration camps for reeducation into christofascism.
Tdont kid yourself, look at the numbers, Trump is propped up by gen x. The demographic loudest against biden are gunna be around a long time.
demographic loudest against biden
And add in the “Biden = genocide but I have no alternative to offer so I guess I want Trump to win” crowd and you can be in trouble.
As terrible as Biden’s stance on the Israel/Palestine conflict is, he’s still the lesser of two evils. Another Trump presidency would not spell good things for Palestinian civilians.
And that’s my point. Trump CERTAINLY will be worse, but people have decided that they will let the greater of two evils in by default rather than work to bring in the lesser of the two.
People who think that Biden is genocidal have seen nothing yet compared to Trump being in that role agian.
It’s like they forgot all of the pro-Israel moments of Donald Trump’s 4 years in office. But since October 7th 2023, people have actually started to receive an education in Israeli/Palestinian relations. Most people thought it started on October 7th 2023 and not, you know, 75 years before that.
It is the first real conflict in a generation or so, there are probably many people who never thought of it before and are suddenly interested.
The fact that crowd exists is a scary reminder of the power of propaganda, advertising, and manipulation. It’s a clear and devastating example of using people’s values against them. It’s an entirely artificially created demographic. To people who didn’t get caught on that particular baited hook, it looks insane.
And yet those who did are passionately angry at you for not agreeing with them. Like insulting your dead grandma and saying you should never have been born kind of angry. It’s so weird.
The fundamentals of how to wage information/cognitive warfare should be part of public schools’ curriculum so our kids will recognize when its happening.
There are still plenty of ignorant and angry Gen X and Millenials. I agree that the GOP is finished, and it’s only a matter of time. There will always be stupid people to pick up their mantle, however.
Plenty ignorant Gen Z while we’re on the top, ain’t nothing special about y’all. Vote democrat or you’re just helping Trump turn America fascists and then the reeducation camps will start
I’m Gen X, but thanks. I work with university students and trust me that everyone else is a dinosaur.
But what will replace them? Uni-party doesn’t work either (e.g. NYC)
Hopefully the Democrats. No seriously, I hope the Dems become our more conservative party and we get a more progressive party. But… I’m not holding my breath, honestly. Feels like wishful thinking.
A new party will pop up. The Federalist Party died out after Hamilton was shot and also the War of 1812. They fielded their last Presidential candidate in 1816 with 30.9% of the vote.
Then the National Republican Party (different from the current Republican party) evolved out of the Democratic-Republican Party.
Personally, I’d love it if Democrats became the right-most party by staying exactly as they are, and a new party breaks off of them or evolves out to their left.
Personally, I’d love it if Democrats became the right-most party by staying exactly as they are, and a new party breaks off of them or evolves out to their left.
I’d say it’s more likely to go the other way, with the more moderate or right-leaning Democrats breaking off to form their own party and perhaps steal away the more moderate Republican voters. There are a lot of voters who would naturally align more closely with traditional Republican political views voting Democrat only because the Republican party has been taken over by a radical faction. Having laissez-faire fiscal conservatives and outright socialists in the same party isn’t really sustainable long-term; there are too many critical points of disagreement.
Democrats aren’t exactly a healthy representation of moderation. They’re too authoritarian for me to want the other party to be the actually-socialist party. Socialist and libertarian would be a balance, but it requires a big chunk of the Democrat platform to burn alongside MAGA. Honestly actually-socialist and actually-libertarian would be the two parties we really need today.
actually-socialist and actually-libertarian would be the two parties we really need today
they’re the same party
Which one is that? I’m not sure you understand the difference if you think both can possibly be represented by the same party.
I hope so but I think my fellow gen x’ers will just become as hateful and bigoted.
The boomer remover was in full swing and then some asshat said we needed a vaccine and you all ate it up.
Then can we please be out and get out and vote?
Republicans know this, and push culture war issues to drive certain voters out of their states/area.
I’m LGBTQ…AND republican. Although that means something vastly different where I live, haha (I live in a kingdom).
The only cool kind of Republicans
In my republic (France), Republicans suck too. It looks like you’re right: cool Republicans only exist in monarchies.
Isn’t everyone in The France republican? Do you have monarchist French that want to resurrect King Louis? Or do they want to crown Macarone the new King?
P.S. I had an almond croissant earlier today and took a picture of some frozen snails.
Almost everyone is Republican, but we also have a Republican Party, which isn’t more Republican than the others, this name makes zero sense. It’s the successor of the party of De Gaulle, but I’m quite sure De Gaulle wouldn’t like what this party became.
There are a few monarchist movements, generally far-right-leaning, like the French Action. But they are very small and divided (there are two candidates for the throne, and different kinds of monarchies), so nobody takes them seriously.
PS: croissants are good; snails aren’t.
De Gaulle
He really hated the English - which is a bit rich considering we sheltered him during the war. He was proven right on the EU though. We did nothing but cause trouble while in, then left. Precisely what he predicted. :(
PS: croissants are good; snails aren’t.
A civilised French! A rare, but welcome, breed. I forgive you for Patay, Formigny, and Castillon. Joan of Arc was obviously suffering the Snail Madness and didn’t realise English rule was superior.
I don’t think De Gaulle hated the English, but he surely despised them. He despised almost everyone though, and maybe he despised the French more than anyone else, calling us “calves” or mocking our love for cheese, for example. Yeah, he was an asshole.
They should employ you at the Paris tourist board. You’re a decent French and you know facts! Paris needs that. 👍
Had me in the first half not gonna lie
Vive la république!
Our time will come
Now if they’d just vote….
To their credit, they are: https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/12/12/near-record-high-numbers-of-young-people-voted-during-the-midterms-signaling-a-possible-shift/
1 out of 4 for a midterm election is nothing to sneeze at.
Specifically, an estimated 27% of eligible voters in that age group turned out to the polls in 2022
In 2018, approximately 31% of young people voted
It’s not that many, and it’s actually down from the last midterm election. Fucking vote.
Golly I remember once on Reddit saying that people should vote and by howdy did a whole bunch of angry people vote me down double digits because, you see, apparently voting doesn’t matter and I made people feel sad.
To be fair, I’ve voted my whole adult life and don’t really feel like anything is better off because of it. I will continue to vote for the lesser evil, but I also completely understand why people are frustrated with this system. We just keep voting between a turd sandwich and a giant douche, and it gets old. So it doesn’t surprise me when people feel like voting is useless, it feels like it’s hopeless by design. We need a new system.
People get mad when they have a problem and you provide a solution they can feasibly take part in. As soon as they have any agency/capability to take responsibility suddenly they are unable to.
My mother in law famously stopped seeing a psychologist when they told her that she has the power to fix all of the problems in her life. She then spent the next 15 years being an unbearable cunt until her second-eldest had a child and suddenly she doesn’t want to fuck up the grand kids as much as she fucked up her own children.
They do vote…they’re in areas where their vote doesn’t count.
A lot of us aren’t old enough to vote yet
Ok you get a pass 😉
Wow, a news story that makes me think my kid could actually live in a better political climate than me in a few decades. I forgot what this feeling was like.
I’m a bit confused by this.
Does this imply that the human race is drastically more sexually fluid than most species when allowed to be without oppression? Or that the culture gen z has grown up in helps cultivate a more fluid preference?
I grew up in the 80s, so I’m trying to understand, but it’s tough meshing statements like this with my experiences.
Please don’t misunderstand this post as disapproval. Just confusion.
Amazing what not punishing things does
I’ve got an older bro who is ambidextrous due to not being allowed to be left-handed in kindergarten (and beyond). He got held back due to “developmental” problems. I can’t believe the teachers and principal were so dumb that they couldn’t connect the dots as to what was really going on.
I’m cross dominant. I do some things left handed, some things right handed, and a select few I can do with either. Elementary school was weird. My teachers couldn’t comprehend that I write with my right hand but use scissors with my left. For years I was forced to use right handed scissors held awkwardly in my left hand. To this day, I’m not particularly good with scissors.
I’m cross dominant but consider myself left handed mainly because I do the fine motor stuff writing, eating, etc. with my left hand. Out side of scissors I don’t think I’ve ever felt forced to use a hand that didn’t feel comfortable, stupid scissors.
distributed over the population vs the same 4 girls who sit together at lunch
Baseball?
Baseball (and sports in general) are wonderful man made examples of evolution and how selection pressure can force the expression of certain traits. About 25% of MLB players are left handed, versus about 10% in the general population.
A similar thing has occurred in the NBA where the average height is about 6’6” (or 198.6cm for those opposed to Freedom Units), which is about 8 inches taller than the average American male.
Doubtless, you can look at any top level professional sport league and find some physical trait (or set of traits) that is wholly disproportionate compared to the general population due to those traits providing some advantage(s) that is unique to that game.
That’s true… And what I was (jokingly) referencing…
But, my Dad’s mother, my Granny…
She was a natural Lefty…
And musically inclined…
Her Daddy slacked the strings on the family guitar before he left for work…
She figured out how to tune that instrument…
Those in her church, later, made fun of her for playing backwards chords, because she was a lefty. .
She learned to play the other way, too… And she taught me both…
There’s so many sides and nuances to every thought in our lives…
It was a harmless joke, but it has roots in my reality…
This shit is so often much deeper than we think…
You made a fuckin hell of a statement, but it’s without context or understanding…
I was just making an off-handed joke…
There is a fucking shitload of lefties in baseball… Because it fucks with the righties when they’re batting…
When people use that many ellipses it makes it look like they haven’t made up their mind, so their opinions can be ignored.
Oh I thought it was like a poem or something because of all the line breaks and ellipses. But it’s just a regular comment?
The best explanation I’ve heard is that it’s similar to the stats for left-handed people. Way back in the day, almost no one “identified” as being left-handed. But once the stigma against left-handedness was eliminated, the numbers went up.
So in other words, yes, it’s a reflection of LGBTQ+ becoming more acceptable, particularly among Gen Z. There could be other factors, but that’s probably the main one.
28% seems huge, though. Are there any other animals like that? I’m kind of confused how it’s that high even with acceptance lol.
Most male dogs hump your leg regardless of who you are
Male ducks will even do necrophilia with other males.
I get your point, but “most”? I’ve had 5 male dogs of my own over 40-ish years, and have known or met many, many others and I’ve never once had my leg humped.
Most (male dogs that hump)
Maybe they don’t think you’re hot enough /s
It’s mostly bisexuals. You know like Julius Caesar, Alexander of Macedon, and large swaths of people in cultures where same gender romance or sex is acceptable in certain circumstances so long as you also marry and have children.
Julius Caesar, described by a contemporary as “Every woman’s man, and every man’s woman”
We stan a bicon in this house
Is there data to back that claim up?
Not arguing but also something I hadn’t heard before. That there has been an absolutely massive increase in # of people identifying as bi and that that is the majority of LGBTQ+
I can’t recall any off the top of my head and it’s definitely anecdotally been my experience as someone who came out about a decade ago and has been a geek about queer history for about that long. Like there are definitely more homosexuals and a lot more open trans people (but trans people are estimated at absolute highest to be 1% of the population, and more realistic high end estimates last I checked are .3%-.5%), but bi folks have been coming out of the woodwork.
Shakespeare too
Yes. Bonobos.
Human appear to be about halfway between chimps and bonobos on the primate spectrum. The violence of chimps combined with the fluid sexual social habits of bonobos lol
https://phys.org/news/2019-09-insights-same-sex-sexual-interactions-important.amp
The article pointed out that the same sex encounters were only high for females, idk if that’s that similar to humans.
We are the only animal with cultural locks on gender expression. If we didn’t have such hang ups about gender norms we would not really notice someone being LGBT. Paradoxically the more regressive and strict people are about gender roles the more people you have that don’t fit within those gender roles.
Theres long been a camp that argues the vast majority of people are bisexual (myself included). That’s also where pretty much all of the recent growth comes from. Interestingly, most of that comes from bisexual women, while bisexual men consistently self report at levels lower than gay men.
There are lots of men who identify as straight but have sex with other men. So much so that medical literature often uses MSM as a category instead of gay. There’s an entire DL subculture among African American men.
Anywhere you go you can download Grindr and find oodles of guys who are in heterosexual marriages. The stigma is pretty strong, they probably can’t even internally recognize themselves as somewhat bisexual.
This is particularly relevant as it relates to how silly this topic and its reactions are. We absolutely KNOW that the current number is an undercount, and yet it’s still really hard for people to grasp that the percentage is that high.
I mean, sexuality is a spectrum. It’s statistically unlikely that a large part of the population is at the exact borders of the spectrum and not even slightly in between.
Especially since afaik physical attraction is just a matter of appearance, and there’s very masculine women or very feminine men.
Bonobos
Part acceptance, part widening the net of what’s included in the category.
I think it’s mostly that very few of them identify as Republican.
But also, the less stigma around gender expression, the more kids will be open to explore theirs.
That’s not what the data said.
https://www.axios.com/2024/01/23/gen-z-less-religious-more-liberal-lgbtq
Identifying as Republican went from 32% in the Boomer Generation to 21% in Gen Z. Identifying as LGBTQ+ went from 4% with Boomers to 28% with Gen Z.
Both changes are major, but the LGBTQ+ change is massive.
It’s probably worth mentioning we recognize certain types of people as part of the LGBTQ+ umbrella who were not before. Asexual people, for example.
Also huge swaths of bi people and a lot of people who are now understood as gay and trans as opposed to straight people who hate their body and life but got rejected from hormones
It’s a confluence of factors. LGBTQIA+ is sort of a gender/sexuallity/ phenotype physicality solidarity alliance and the actual boundries has grown in scope since the 80’s.
Like take for instance asexual people. Asexuallity became a part of the solidarity when people reached out over the internet and and started realizing that there were a lot of people who just don’t feel sexual attraction and that there are certain widely accepted forms of social coercion that revolve around pushing people towards sexual attraction. But asexuallity as a part of the LGBTQIA only really became a thing in the early 2000’s. Non-binary trans identities are much the same. A lot of people were feeling the way they did about themselves in isolation but they had no frame of reference to think that they were not just the odd person out.
The other half is a society wide re-examination of compulsory heterosexuallity/cis gender hegemony. There are way more people out there who no longer define themselves by who they’ve chosen to have physical sexual experience with and now a lot more people are more frank about defining themselves by the range of people they are attracted to. Like if the majority of people artificially penalize a bi-person for choosing a same sex relationship a lot of people will just take the easier path and just narrow their choices or keep their liasons with the restricted choice secret and not assume the label.
I before I came out as trans initially figured I didn’t count as trans because I both wasn’t physically transitioning and my industry is somewhat hostile to trans people so I was very closeted ao I figured the label only really belonged to the people brave enough to live out of the closet… But eventually someone found me and was like “No, it’s not aspirational. Even deep in the closet you are still trans.”
This combination of destigmatization, solidarity messaging, the inclusion of whole other groups (like intersex people, gender minorities, asexuals) broadening the scope and outreach to the closeted means that more people generally self identify as LGBTQIA or queer.
Animal kingdom wise we’re still less observably sexual fluid than other primates. Bisexuality is actually pretty ubiquitous particularly amongst male primates with it actually being the overwhelming norm in some species so chances are we are probably actually haven’t seen the curve level off from suppressive stigma.
I believe it’s your first option, acceptance for being yourself is the normal instead of a beating from your parents like pre 2000.
I think most species are more fluid than you realize, and humans are just normal. Especially for apes that share a common ancestor with bonobos.
I would assume they are more honestly/aware of their preference.
I am a gay dude, and I have had friends/coworkers who identified as straight say things like “Why does everyone need to label things? I am 100% straight, but sometimes on a road trip, you just wanna suck the other guy off. Both of us are still straight though”
Every time I have heard thigns like this, it’s GenX, or older Millennial. Older than that, they don’t bring up “queer” things, younger than that, they just say that they are “mostly straight”, or “barely-bi”, or “up for whatever”.
Yepppppp, the kinsey 1s and 2s are really common and there was a time when even 3s and some 4s would identify as straight.
I identify as the +. My sexuality is Extra. Anyone up for some algebra?
LGBT as a category has been increased a lot over the years. Asexual or people who don’t feel they conform to super strict gender norms are all included as “queer” now. So I imagine it’s a combo of things, some people being trendy, some people being freer and not feeling the need to hide, some people who previously didn’t identify being included.
Left handedness was persecuted and after it stopped being persecuted there was a massive rise in people who were left handed. But it plateaued and has remained pretty stable since then.
The 11% dip for the GOP makes sense. Their policies are just not in line with what young people value.
That said, the +24% gain in LGBTQ+ identification is fascinating and I would love to know how nature, nurture, taboo, and oppression play impact that. This would be a really cool time to be in university and studying human sexuality and gender.
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My (admittedly relatively hot) take as a younger millennial indoctrinated by the 2nd wave feminists (who weren’t huge on the third wave) is that what gender means has shifted. I didn’t experience myself as particularly gendered growing up in the 90s and early 00s and certainly wouldn’t consider it part of my inner essence. I don’t give a shit how strangers refer to me or whether they think I’m a dude or not. I found it to be a slightly annoying category imposed by everyone else. Something I needed to understand because it impacted how I was received by others, but not something that was core to my self-understanding. In school I studied the humanities which reaffirmed to me that gender was an annoying external category that put people in boxes—we didn’t want gay female CEOs, we wanted to get rid of gender altogether.
I think gen Z actually has a similar thought but instead of doing away with the gender categories many have chosen, on an individual level, to make them their own a bit more in line with 3rd wave ‘boss bitch’ vibes. This still undermines the oppressive nature of the gender roles because it it kind of divorces gender from the societal gender role.
Well said
We are indeed more sexually fluid than most species and given it’s “most” and not “all”, this isn’t unprecedented. It’s also not a new phenomena, in Ancient Greek and early-mid Ancient Roman societies queerness was quite common. In fact homosexuality was so prevalent that that the Romans didn’t even have a word for heterosexual/homosexual; instead one was either dominant or submissive (e.g. giving or receiving) with the assumption being that most were bisexual and would take partners as they saw fit.
There would still be a stigma around being the receptive partner. The idea being that a higher status man can penetrate lower status people (younger men, slaves, women). A high status man being penetrated by a lower status person would be worthy of mockery.
Samurai were gay as fuck though. Sengoku period you could even be romantic with other dudes, women are for making babies. I have an 1940s (iirc) English translation of a book of 16th century gay samurai love stories - the guy who wrote the forward thought it was because “mongoloid” people look more feminine 😅
LGBTQ came out if the closet and GOP went in.
fingers crossed it means there’s five gen z Republicans and they don’t know how to vote
Putting sexuality in such a defined state is relatively new in human culture. So most often no one would have the worlds to talk about it or even know it could be classified differently.
Some of it is a rejection of previous values - toxic masculinity and toxic femininity. Some of it may be standing with their peers even if it does not apply directly to them. Some of it is trendiness. Some doctors are even predatory, seeking to sell their extraordinarily expensive surgeries for tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars. Older, established trans communities in Europe even are shocked at how young we allow surgeries in the USA, before someone knows who they truly are.
Mainly we just have an extremist society here, egged on in large part by our predatory clickbait media that always has to come up with something to
saysell, so it ignores the >80% in the middle and focuses exclusively on the flashiest content it can find. And then kids hear that and wonder how they fit into it - ofc they never see the “middle ground”, b/c in the media it just isn’t there.Take a look also at how shockingly high rates of suicide and opioid and other drug use are. The younger generations are desperate to become anything else besides what boomers are telling them they must be: literal slaves to the corporate empires.:-(
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No, they’re just not being persecuted by narrow-minded superstitious assholes like in past decades.
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Our closest related species gets it on so much in so many ways it is one STD away from extinction. It might be that we really are like this. Maybe the norm for humans was to have random homosexual and hetrosexual orgies everywhere. It was only because it became important to know who the daddy was that things changed? Or the sampling of the survey wasn’t great. You know groundbreaking or meaningless.
I think about cultures that have a focus on same sex sexual contact- most people, if they had been born there would probably participate. If they’re born somewhere where it’s forbidden, most people don’t engage in it.
Some people are hardwired about it in either direction, but the majority are more flexible
sees headine oh, that’s good news!
sees source oh it’s gay fox, which means it’s probably sensationalized to the point that the headline is a lie, because that’s what they do over there.
You had me at gay fox.
Actually the source is Axios, and the headline is not wrong even if it is from an obviously biased organization. You can see the original coverage of it here:
https://www.axios.com/2024/01/23/gen-z-less-religious-more-liberal-lgbtq
honestly it would make sense and i didn’t doubt it until I saw it was on PinkNews - it’s not about bias, it’s about their headlines too often being the exact opposite of the real story (when there even is a real story; much of their content is sensationalized nothings). Just absolute crap reporting. Thanks for providing the original source.
I’ve been on the internet too long, because I assumed you meant it was a furry site.
Not buying it. Probably just scared of the well deserved ridicule received if they identify as Republican. We’ll see how the vote goes.
You’re dubious because why? Do you think there were only two options? Do you identify as republican or LGBTQ?
What they’re saying is it’s more embarrassing for a teen to come out as republican than LGBTQ+ (obviously depends on the area)
Shy Tory factor. It hasn’t usually been common to see in US polling.
This is actually quite interesting. For me, answering a questionaire like this is frustrating because the true answer is much more nuanced than what the given options are and I feel like I know what they’re trying to ask but my honest answer is going to give them confusing results from which they’re going to pull incorrect conclusions from.
For example: Politically I’m slightly right from centre but I’ve always voted left. I’m also non-straight but I don’t identify as LGBTQ (I literally had to look up the correct way to type that)
It sounds like you’re over-complicating your own life.
Why do you think that?
It sounds complicated lol.
You’re being quite vague.
Because people here are smart enough to not comment on whether someone has an authentic identity, what that identity is, what it should be, etc. You do you. It does also sound a bit like you’ve decided that you don’t fit other categories just because but you may not also know in which ways or why.
Sorry
I’ll say it, because I ran out of fucks a long time ago and I couldn’t give a fuck about down votes:
You are a moron.
And that’s fine. Someone has to prop up the bottom half of the intellectual spectrum. The problem is self awareness.
Forest Gump knew he was a moron. Most morons don’t.
I’m also non-straight but I don’t identify as LGBTQ (I literally had to look up the correct way to type that)
If you identify as non-straight then you’re identifying as LGBTQ. Don’t get hung up on the specific letters in the acronym, that sort of changes from year to year. You can pretty much sum it up to literally mean anything that isn’t straight which is what you said you are.
If you identify as non-straight then you’re identifying as LGBTQ.
No I don’t. That’s the point; if this is asked on a questionaire my answer will be no. It’s irrelevant if other people want to label me like that - I don’t.
You labeled yourself non-straight. That falls under LGBTQ.
Edit: I’m not trying to force you to use the acronym, I’m just saying “non-straight” most definitely falls under it.
It’s irrelevant if other people want to label me like that
Correct. You get to label yourself and no person on Earth has a right to comment on that. You’re choosing not to and it’s unclear why or to what end.
…it’s unclear why or to what end.
The abbreviation in question has negative cannotations in my mind and thus I don’t want to be accociated with it. I prefer the term sexual minority if I absolutely need to be put into a category.
has negative cannotations in my mind
I feel like you may have just demonstrated the importance of the study being reported here. The people responding affirmatively do not carry that burden.
As a piece of advice: this is a “you” thing. Whatever you need to do to get there, learn to be ok with yourself and stop worrying about what others think of you.
My point is that people answer these kind of questionaires differently. Just like I may not check a box others might think I should have, some other person checks a box others might think they shouldn’t have. Just because one thinks of themselves as native american for example doesn’t mean others do. That nearly 30% LGBTQ rate indicates, to me atleast, that something like this is going on here aswell.
I don’t consider myself to be especially worried about what other people think of me. I don’t know what makes you feel like I do.
non-straight but I don’t identify as LGBTQ
This is pretty much what the “Q” part is. Queer in this context refers to not conforming to standard roles in some way or another.
Weird that your response got downvoted, but that seems to be how things go on here. Weird, but not surprising. If you’re slightly right from center, you sound like a centrist Dem.
I would identify as ANYTHING before as a republican
As it should be. FUCKING VOTE! And remember, by not voting for Biden, you are voting for Trump whether or not you actually cast a vote. ALL of the Trump supporters WILL show up on the day.
No. You don’t get to tell me that I have to vote for Biden when he’s not doing anything to earn my vote. He’s allowing Israel to carry out a genocide. So he’s not actually less evil than Trump. You’re just upset because Trump’s shitty policies will impact you more than Biden’s shitty policies. Biden has the lower approval ratings than Trump did at this point. He has not earned a second term.
How about the Dems run a candidate who isn’t dog shit? I vote for Dems as a form of harm reduction, but they aren’t reducing harm anymore. So what’s in it for me? Dems haven’t not done anything about the supreme court, student loans, or threats to democracy and they are largely supporting the actions of Israel. If I’m right, and this is a genocide (I am), then voting for anyone who supports it would be an evil act. They’re going to have to make some changes if they want to earn the votes of people who don’t want to see a genocide carried out on our watch with our bombs.
That said, it would be a real problem if Trump won. So if that happens, I hope you’ll be willing to place the blame where it belongs: with the Democrats. They are the ones doing nothing to earn our votes. Biden isn’t even campaigning.
Okay. But Palestine still gonna be fucked. I get that you don’t care if Palestinians die. But I do. So I get to not vote for the guy currently enabling their genocide. “Trump would do it too” so you admit it’s bad? Demand better from your politicians you weakling.
If you think Palestine is still fucked either way then choosing to empowerer Trump makes even less sense. I think it’s a fact that Trump will be far worse for Palestinians than Biden, but even if we assume they will both be just as terrible on this issue, Trump is also terrible on every issue. If your choice is terrible and completely terrible, logically you should go with terrible. The other choice is even worse.
How could trump be worse?what is worse than arming the Israelies while they engage in genocide? Unless you don’t believe that’s what is happening. In which case,you have been misinformed. Genocide is genocide. Why am I the asshole here for not wanting to vote for someone who is enabling a genocide? Why isn’t Biden the asshole for enabling the genocide or not stepping down?
ah, so the single-issue voter. actually it’s not even single-issue, that’s just giving up status quo in order to effectively vote for worse than status quo. that’s called having a narrow view on the world, you know the middle east isn’t the only thing that exists in american politics right? there are still other things to improve on rather than just saying “oh israel-palestine conflict is going to shit either way therefore why even bother, might as well fuck up every other political issue, it’s useless if we can’t have this one win”.
grow up, you’re effectively casting all your friends and loved ones into the flames with your stubbornness, and casting palestinians into the flames considering trump is going to rail way harder against palestine than biden does. it’s not like not voting means no palestinians die, why do you have this delusion that you have blood on your hands if you vote but no blood on your hands if you don’t. it helps nobody and improves nothing except your own ego because you get to say “oh well i didn’t vote for genocide!” even though you practically voted for more genocide.
Some might say it’s the weakling that can’t make the right decision to vote for the lesser evil even if they don’t like them.
Like I said in the last reply, you get to vote however you like. But if you publicly share your choice, others are free to comment on it.
But Palestine still gonna be fucked.
More Palestinians will die under Trump. All he does is kiss dictator ass. Trump is going to let Netanyahu ethnically cleanse the entire Gaza Strip.
I get that you don’t care if Palestinians die. But I do.
You’re a liar. Since this is all you seem to care about, know this, you’re going to have blood on your hands if you refuse to vote. I refuse to let you have your bullshit moral high ground. I’m voting for democracy in this next election. There will be nothing but genocide from here on out if America becomes a fascist dictatorship, both at home and abroad. Millions more people will die if Trump becomes president. If millions of Palestinians dying doesn’t matter to you, then you don’t care about the Palestinians.
Bro I don’t care about Palestine that much right now, nothing we can do there, that’s on Israel, Iran and the middle east, you better look in your own fkn back yard because dictatorship is just around the corner while everyone is worried about the next marvel movie and causes they don’t really have any power to effect.
Palestinians don’t care if Palestinians die. They huddle up around Hamas members and tunnel entrances to die as proud martyrs, human shields for their terrorist captor’s absolutely deranged anti-social and religious beliefs.
It’s very sad that 600,000 to 800,000 people in Gaza ignored the evacuation warnings or were held as voluntary and involuntary human shields by a terrorist organization. The terrorists and their patron state Iran are absolutely psyched that Kentifer got tricked into openly supporting terrorism by these otherwise easily avoidable deaths. Really, it’s very sad that Hamas has no regard for the lives of the people it falsely claims to serve.
The hard right authoritarians of the world support Hamas and call these deaths genocide; Iran, Malaysia, Brazil, Iraq, Syria, etc.
The liberal world order supports Iarael’s right to self defense; America, the EU, NATO, UK, France, Australia, Norway, Austria, Poland, Germany…even Canada.
Think about that and consider whether it not maybe you really have been tricked, why you’re siding with Iran over Canada?
Of course nobody can tell you who you have to vote for.
But regardless of your choice and your reasons, the math of the votes in our stupid system does mean that voting for anybody but Biden, including voting for nobody, helps Trump or his Republican replacement.
If you don’t care about that, that’s fine. Some might argue that you SHOULD care, but that’s a different conversation. The voting decision is a private one that’s yours alone, but understanding how the choices affect the outcome is good for everybody.
New copypasta?
If you want to copy my words and spread them across the Internet, go right ahead.
Now bots are getting lazy ans want people do to their job for them?
Hey, if bots care about genocide, then they’re probably better people than you. Have fun voting for Butcher Biden. I do not have to.
US Americans when they find out there are people living outside USA.
You responded to my comment about American politics calling me a bot because I have the nerve to not suck biden’s dick. Why would I assume you were not in the US?
I think it’s pretty obvious where the blame would be if Trump wins: the stupid folks who refused to vote out of principle. If it was possible that neither could win then your strategy could make sense. But there are ONLY 2 OUTCOMES. Requiring dems to earn your vote is unfortunately meaningless when the only other option is FAR WORSE YOU CRETIN OF INANE CONCLUSIONS.
That said, it would be a real problem if Trump won. So if that happens, I hope you’ll be willing to place the blame where it belongs: with the Democrats. They are the ones doing nothing to earn our votes. Biden isn’t even campaigning.
Biden is governing. He’s doing the job he was elected to do. Perhaps that’s enough to earn some votes? Or are votes only earnt by rallies and advertisements?
In any case, it’s completely silly to blame the Democrats for losing if you don’t vote for them yourself. If you prefer Democrats over republicans, then you have to vote for them. Even though they aren’t perfect. If you don’t vote, then it is totally unreasonable to blame anyone else for getting an undesired outcome. Not voting implies that you have no preference.
(And yet again, this is another case where ‘ranked choice’ voting / preferential / instant-runoff would make this whole situation a lot easier. USA could really use some serious electoral reform.)
okay, then welcome your next dictator Donald Trump and all that implies (Gilead like conditions, rescending civil and gender rights, requiring Christian worship or prison/execution, an end to all journalism and only Trumpian little red books where you pledge allegiance to him every day or get reported to the police)
Man it’s crazy how these people think they can instill some false duty onto any leftist to “do the right thing” without actually weighing each of the choices carefully. They just see a D next to someone’s name and think they must be the good guy, regardless of what they say.
Did we all forget about the kids in cages on the border? Or the lack of free healthcare/college? Did we forget about the union busting? Biden is not a good guy, he’s just barely better than Trump. He’s certainly better at hiding the heinous shit from everyone.
But yeah man, were all bad people and unamerican for wanting a better choice and hating our hand I guess?
Either way you’re voting for a Palestinian genocide and the continuation of neoliberal imperialism.
Edit: the future is bleak either way, Biden has explicitly shown support for the continuation of support for Israel as well as the bombing campaign in Yemen and Syria. All this is to say that there is genuinely nothing we can do to help the middle east in this election.
But sure, we can get a better minimum wage or whatever.
