First off, that website is an ad dumpster fire. UBlock is a requirement.
Second, here’s the write from the article referencing his Facebook post:
He wrote: “Many of us like to ask ourselves, ‘What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?’ The answer is, you’re doing it. Right now.”
The video shows one officer pointing a gun at Bushnell, while others extinguished the flames. The MPD spokesperson did not confirm if that officer worked for the police department, but said the matter is under investigation.
Okay wtf is that supposed to mean? Who else should the pig be working for?
I don’t know why they say suicide is illegal in the US, all you have to do is call the cops and they’ll send someone to help finish the job.
They don’t want to let a perfectly good practicing target go to waste.
Gotta wait for a man to turn black before you shoot him without cause
oof, nice catch
Without cause? He came right at them! Backwards! It was so scary!
Damn, that’s bleak.
Then it’s extra-legal!
There are dozens of police agencies in just a couple blocks of that area. And they can all dress similarly. MPD is for the entire district, but each government agency can have their own police.
https://publicsafety.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_law_enforcement_agencies_in_the_District_of_Columbia
(don’t pay any attention to the similarities to the Roman Empire and its multitude of “security” organizations)
Not defending the practice, but at least in North America, it’s relatively common for cops to get hired to work security by private companies. It’s usually called Paid Duty and those are the cops you see who seem to be working security guard like details at retail shops and sports games etc. They are still technically working for the police department in that situation though I believe.
@masterspace yikes that sounds like all kinds of conflict of interest.
It also sounds like an extreme form of policing for the rich only.
Yup, that’s why I wanted to make it very clear that I was not defending the practice. Seems inherently ripe for abuse. It often seems like it allows rich people to pretend like crime isn’t an issue in their isolated bubbles rather than be forced to address it on a societal scale.
Though at the same time, if people are going to throw a massive event, you often do need to have extra police at least on standby, and I can see the logic of saying “well then that event organizer should be the one paying for it, rather than the general taxpayer”… that’s still pretty radically different from a random Gucci store hiring a cop to patrol their bags with a gun though, and I don’t even know if those two types of things would even fall under the same programs.
@masterspace yeah I can see that. It’s basically taking people who were trained at public expense (and who are supposed to uphold public interests) and then having them selectively police in the private sector (and private interests) in exchange for that sector subsidising their salaries.
Has it been associated with police homicides at all, do you know?
Could be feds, or another branch of LE
The embassy?
Then he’d be a security guard, not an officer, no?
How do we convince conservatives that self-immolation is their ticket to heaven?
Apparently, vaccine mandates.
By telling them heaven is controlled by white, pure-blooded christians that are free from the worries of black people and transgenders.
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They already have a death wish
Even scarier than that, they desperately want to meet god but know that they can’t do it by their own hand, so they’re now looking to install a leader that they know is the antichrist because he will bring about the end of the world (Trump so desperately wants to use a nuke it’s got everyone on edge).
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The video shows one officer pointing a gun at Bushnell
Sounds about right.
Hey! Stop dying or I’ll shoot!
Off topic, but In Bruges is a great film.
If you are reading this, and haven’t seen “In Bruges”, do yourself a favour.
YOU’RE AN INANIMATE FUCKING OBJECT!!
And if he’d started lighting other people on fire?
That’s not how this works
How are the police to know that he was his only target before it all happens?
Even when he’s completely drowning in flames and falling on the ground, an American in a uniform has a gun pointed at him. Then an exasperated voice in the background yells “WE DON’T NEED GUNS, WE NEED FIRE EXTINGUISHERS”. Surreal in a very grim way.
How did he film it? Did he have a tripod or something for the camera/phone?
That’s the ultimate gesture for Palestine, isn’t it. I hope, both for the sake of Palestine and for Aaron Bushnell’s legacy, that something good comes from it. Maybe the wider population are too comfortable and brainwashed, but history happens in unpredictable ways.
Stunning 8K-resolution meditation app
In honor of the revolution, it’s half off at the GAP
There it is again, that funny feeling
I don’t want to sound cynical, but I really struggle with understanding what someone thinks they’ll actually accomplish setting themselves on fire. I it would be the most horrific way to die let alone doing it to yourself.
You’re Joe Biden. You need to win an election.
A US soldier just lit himself on fire about controversy that you know voters do not like about you. The situation clearly is developing for the worse for you.
You don’t think they care? You should read up on Johnson’s feelings about protestors mocking his killing of America’s youth in Vietnam. He did not like it. I feel Biden is sensing much of the same.
Yeah. Understand the power now rereading your sentence? It’s horrifying to think someone would do that by choice because society is so evil.
I remember someone years ago killed themselves because they disagreed with how George W. Bush won re-election. Like, that totally did nothing and the machine kept rolling on.
I mean, kudos to anyone who’s actually brave enough to have the strength to decide that this world is beyond repair that they check themselves out early. Tragic, but brave. Though, it doesn’t really say anything.
If a group of people, set themselves up on fire infront of the target of the thing they have a problem with, now that is saying something and would be very powerful.
Self Immolation in public is much different than the typical suicide. If this guy just shot himself, it sadly probably wouldn’t mean much. Not only did he self immolate, he managed to keep yelling his position while being on fire. Instead of yelling for help while feeling the worst pain a human can, he yelled “free Palestine”. Flame carries with it an intent that a gun, a noose, or pills never can.
There is a reason the image of the burning monk has endured with so much impact
You’re trying to understand mental illness. Look at this story for what it is: Yet another tragedy caused by America’s lack of attention to mental health care, especially for our enlisted personnel.
You’re trying to find the glory in this suicide because this story of suicide is being glorified; we’re supposed to know better than that but clearly we don’t.
Self-immolation is not mental illness any more than any other intentional sacrifice intended to support a cause. That soldier was no doubt taught that wearing the uniform may require the ultimate sacrifice for his comrades and country and that those who did so would be heroes, this is no different.
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It didn’t work for climate change and veganism, why would it now? It doesn’t
I thought the name wouldnt be released until 24 hours after the final notice was delivered to his kin?
The guy streamed a video to his Facebook. Want hard for journalists to track down.
Well I don’t think it’s a resource or methodology issue, rather more of a glaring ethical one.
The dead person themselves wanted their death to be reported. It feels like worse ethics to deny them their voice in their final act.
But anyway, I saw posts yesterday with the video that had received consent from the family to release it as long as his death itself was blurred. They may not understand his act, but they believe he deserves to be seen.
Journalistic ethics?
Huh.
There could be 100,000 journalists with ethics. All it takes is one without and its a race to the bottom.
The department is working with the Secret Service and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to investigate the incident, the spokesperson added.
Seems pretty self-explanatory. What is there to investigate?
I will never understand this kind of “protest,” because it presumes that you have value to the people you are protesting. Israel certainly doesn’t give a fuck about a US citizens’ opinions, and the US government doesn’t know who you are. You are killing yourself to make a point to people who literally don’t care if you live or die, and any meaningful activism you could have done as an able-bodied person is lost forever.
People might remember that this happened, but it will be like a half-remembered dream when the next event oozes out of the ragebait news machine.
Based on what I leaned from the article about his final message, the protest wasn’t for Israel’s sake, it was to draw those living under the rule of a government’s attention (whether Israel’s, the U.S.'s, or wherever else’s) to the situation. To point out that we are indeed living through a genocide perpetuated by our own government. Like I question his method, but realisticly speaking, you and I wouldn’t be talking about it if he hadn’t.
And maybe nothing will ultimately come of it, maybe it was a desperate act against his own powerlessness to stop it.
I would argue self immolation is a pretty powerful statement though, you weigh everything you are, everything you could be; against the hope that a message takes off somewhere.
Amen. This man did something. While we sit on our asses on Lemmy and complain. You can criticize his methods, but not his conviction.
You can absolutely criticize his conviction. It’s exactly this level of conviction that precipitated this tragic conflict in the first place. Hamas is convinced killing Israelis is the solution to their problems. They did something about it. Israel is convinced killing Palestinians is the solution to their problems. They did something about it. This guy was convinced killing himself is the answer. He did something about it. Cheering on any of these murderous, extremist asshats for having the courage of their convictions is woefully misguided.
There’s no murder here, unless you’re accusing himself of murdering himself, which is a whole can of worms. The other examples are consistent but his is decidedly different.
It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.
Albert Einstein
Agree, this is an extremely brave and selfless act. There have been many cases of self immolation over the years and they stick in the mind. Jan Palach and the many Tibetans spring to mind
Agree, this is an extremely brave and selfless act.
While very brave, I would hesitate to label any act of suicide selfless. You are still breaking a piece inside of everyone you leave behind.
Also, the two examples you sourced weren’t really effective in the end. Czechoslovakia was still invaded, and Tibet is still being occupied by China.
Self Immolation is the most severe form of protest. It’s selfless cause you are giving your life to the cause so that maybe others will have a better chance at achieving their goals
so that maybe others will have a better chance at achieving their goals
How?
I’ve never heard of a situation that could be improved by someone lighting themselves on fire.
That kind of dedication directed towards acts of mutual aid would be invaluable. I think it’s sad that it was wasted on something so ephemeral.
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/180606
There are a few line in this I really like
The famous photograph of the monk is shocking. It was like nothing people had seen before. Quang Duc sits peacefully in the meditative lotus position as the flames engulf him. The image is so perplexing, so contrary to ideas of self-preservation that the audience has to stop and ask questions about what is happening.
and this
The self-immolation was a powerful act of psychological warfare. By being willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for his people, Quang Duc showed the strength and immovable will of the Buddhist community. A foe that isn’t afraid of a painful death cannot be bullied and cajoled into submission.
I read a couple other articles on the history of self immolation. There was a new yorker article that did a good job on being scepitcal of the practice. Was suprised to find out that there are a lot more cases of it that I expected. Then again, the handful of cases where it had the intended effect were so successful that it makes sense that others would do the same hoping to get the same reaction (the Tibetan monks, the Arab Spring, etc)
But it definitely seems fair to say it doesn’t pack the punch it used to. Which might be good reason to choose other actions.
the handful of cases where it had the intended effect were so successful that it makes sense that others would do the same hoping to get the same reaction (the Tibetan monks, the Arab Spring, etc)
There’s no way to objectively determine if self immolation is “effective”. Take Tibet, yes it’s a famous photograph, but did it free Tibet? Was the monks goal to become a famous image, or was it to end the cultural genocide?
What about the Arab spring? Was that man’s goal to kick off a movement that would eventually destabilize the entire region, leading to more autocratic governments securing power?
Is self immolation a powerful act? Yes, but power without direction is meaningless. Real change requires collective action, not independent acts of “psychological warfare”.
I would call it selfish, because his effort could have been put towards lasting activism.
Sometimes a young man is just gonna do it instead of wait to see what life brings. Personally, I say wait and see what life brings. But i was his age once and i sort-of-kind-of get it.
Someone with that level of conviction and belief in what they imagine being a better world than this one is exactly the kind of person who should be running for office, not setting themselves on fire.
More people have died in so many other wars, but this is a genocide? I keep reading it but I don’t see it. Land displacement is not genocide.
Where do you think it falls short in the definition of genocide: “the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.”?
1.5% of the population has been killed. That’s a lot but 2% of the US died in the civil war, and far higher numbers. I know the wars are very different but larger numbers have also died in the current Ukraine war.
If they’re trying to eliminate them as a people they need to pick up the pace. Also, my family was displaced from their land in the 1900s and had to seek asylum in the US. Nobody called it a genocide but also everyone was mostly white.
The criteria for genocide is not “kill a percentage of a population larger than the percentage that died in the US Civil War”. There’s no minimum requirement for per-capita death. It’s about intent and action. They are trying to kill or displace everyone in Gaza. How good they are at it isn’t relevant, it is still genocide.
1.5% of the population has been killed. That’s a lot but 2% of the US died in the civil war
The American Civil War ran from Apr 1861 – 9 Apr 1865. Four years
The Gaza genocide hasn’t even been going for 6 months and it’s already racked up 3/4 of the deaths of the entire US Civil War. If it runs for 4 years at the present rate it will kill 12% of the population and half of those are children.
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Like I question his method, but realisticly speaking, you and I wouldn’t be talking about it if he hadn’t.
And that’s just it. We’re talking about his methodology more than what he was trying to say. And for the government supporting a regime that’s commiting genocide, that is already talked about ad nauseum online. There’s already pro-Palestine protests, there’s groups joining the “Uncommitted” movement—like, his act of self-immolation will be lost among every other act of protest going on.
Was it extreme? Yes. Was it effective? I don’t think so.
We’re talking about his methodology more than what he was trying to say.
You are. Because that’s the conversation you wanted to start rather than address his statements. The President of the United States almost certainly read about this event. It’s being covered in newspapers throughout the country. It’s only people like you who is saying it’s meaningless and no one cares.
I am almost certain nobody will be talking about this next week.
I do not apologize for accepting cold reality.
Never thought I’d see someone tone policing self immolation.
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I honestly doubt this is going to start a revolution. Bouazizi’s act catalyzed public anger against their autocracy, but people in the US live in relative comfort. People aren’t angry enough in a large enough group to have that level of simmering outrage, mainly because it isn’t happening to them.
And that is precisely why all of this corruption and all of this inflation and everything gets by uncontested.
Because, people still live in some sort of complacency. As long as not everything imaginable is taken from them, then the average American goes “okay, still good!”. They’ll just bitch and gripe on social media while having to work around their bullshit and sacrifice tiny crumbs of comfort, but not all of their comfort.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
A man who set himself on fire outside the Israeli Embassy in Washington, D.C. in protest at Israel’s war in Gaza posted a final message on Facebook.
Aaron Bushnell, an active-duty member of the U.S. Air Force, repeatedly yelled “free Palestine” as he set himself alight in what he called an “extreme” act of protest on Sunday.
The footage shows him walk up the driveway of the embassy, set his phone down on the ground and pour an unknown liquid from a bottle over himself and ignite it while yelling “Free Palestine” repeatedly.
The department is working with the Secret Service and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to investigate the incident, the spokesperson added.
A LinkedIn account apparently belonging to Bushnell describes him as an “aspiring software engineer” with “a talent and passion for solving complex problems with code.”
Bushnell’s protest comes as Israel’s war on Hamas has killed about 30,000 Palestinians, The Associated Press reported, citing the Health Ministry in Gaza.
The original article contains 556 words, the summary contains 165 words. Saved 70%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Surely, voting for Biden will fix this.
— Every neolib on lemmy telling me to vote blue.
