• @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    English
    141 day ago

    In an ideal world, but haven’t we learned that she’s too female and probably not white enough for America? *I don’t agree, but I’m being pragmatic

    • Cethin
      link
      fedilink
      English
      45 hours ago

      In case you weren’t aware, Biden, a straight white man (and about the same age as Trump), was running first. His numbers were really bad. Is it because he was a straight white man? No, we only blame women and minorities for the failures of circumstances. We don’t actually talk about the fact she wasn’t an appealing candidate regardless of race or color.

      She ran on “you should thank us for how good you have it” instead of addressing real problems people have. You don’t win an election like that. It had very little, if anything, to do with her race or gender.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      291 day ago

      In an ideal world, but haven’t we learned that she’s too female and probably not white enough for America?

      The entire point behind “Kamala lost because she’s a woman of color, not because she wouldn’t differ from her unpopular predecessor except to move to his right” is to shut out AOC in particular. The party is willing to hold back all women in order to stifle one person, and it’s gross.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        71 day ago

        The fact is that many Americans wouldn’t vote for a woman, and combining that with the ones who wouldn’t vote for a person of colour is a bad idea, especially when the alternative for president is so dire.

        I do think that the fact she wouldn’t support Palestine/condemn Israel was a factor too, but if she had, that would have set Israel against her and lost more votes, especially due to all the media Zionists control and their lobbying power.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          English
          81 day ago

          The Democratic president with the largest margin of victory in recent times was a black man and you’re still out here saying we need to court voters that won’t vote for a person of color in order to win. Maybe your read on the inherent unelectability of women is similarly flawed.

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            120 hours ago

            You again. There have been 2 women on the ballot and both failed, this latest with drastic consequences. So I’d say my read was 100% correct, unfortunately. I wish I was wrong.

            • Cethin
              link
              fedilink
              English
              55 hours ago

              More men have been on the ticket and failed than woman. The fact that both women failed is because of what they were running with, not because they were women. They were incredibly milquetoast candidates who ran basically on maintaining the status quo.

              Obama won so handily because he ran on changing the status quo. Whether he actually did or not is a matter for historians, but that’s what he ran on.

              Voters want someone who will fight for them. That’s what Trump, Obama, and Bernie are. They don’t want someone who sits back and talks about how grateful they should be.

            • @[email protected]
              link
              fedilink
              English
              818 hours ago

              Oh, well then let’s run a black man. They not only have 100% success rate, but massively outperformed all the white men. That must mean black skin (as long as it’s not on a woman) is an electoral benefit! Why take a risk with a white person? That’s the heart of your argument, right?

                • Cethin
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  35 hours ago

                  With a sample size of 2 you claim it’s because they were women. I agree with you it was faulty logic, which was their fucking point and the fact you missed that is incredible. Slow down and think.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          English
          6
          edit-2
          1 day ago

          The fact is that many Americans wouldn’t vote for a woman, and combining that with the ones who wouldn’t vote for a person of colour is a bad idea

          So long as a progressive is a possibility and not one femtosecond longer.

          I do think that the fact she wouldn’t support Palestine/condemn Israel was a factor too, but if she had, that would have set Israel against her and lost more votes

          So we have to (and you get to) support genocide forever too!

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            220 hours ago

            Not sure why I’m being down voted - I would have noted for kamala and I wish she was president. I’m saying that if there’s an option to take a risk now when failure means death then it’s best to not take the risk and wait for a time when the alternative is only pain. Trump was death, we all knew. Not a good time to take a risk. It would have been better to wait to take a risk in trying to elect a woman for the first time in a country of people who think its okay for a person held to the highest standards in the land to say ‘grab em by the pussy’, pay women for sex and be a rapist of women. Even aside from the racism. If you don’t see that then I’m shocked.

            • @[email protected]
              link
              fedilink
              English
              48 hours ago

              I’m saying that if there’s an option to take a risk now when failure means death then it’s best to not take the risk and wait for a time when the alternative is only pain.

              It’s neat how quickly timidity develops when the party wants to shut out a progressive. That’s the only thing this has ever been about.

                • @[email protected]
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  4
                  edit-2
                  6 hours ago

                  I guess you know the party is going to shut out progressives forever and love it.

                  And I get that every centrist interprets all criticism of their party as trump support, but I voted for Harris.

                  • @[email protected]
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    16 hours ago

                    I’m not american and I’m not a centrist. I’m a libertarian socialist. Have a great day now :)

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      81 day ago

      Let’s do racism and sexism, not because we’re racist and sexist, but because other people probably are. It may look like us and the bigots of unclear numbers are both having the same effect, but we’re not bad people just because our actions proactively support bad things. We’re just being pragmatic.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        120 hours ago

        Let’s not live in the real world and run a black woman as candidate, which has never been done before… Why not?
        Oh, that’s just coincidence.
        As is the fact that even without racism, a woman lost to trump last time.
        Nothing to do with the fact that racism and sexism exist and are actually very important to some people. /s

        Come on. Run a black woman at a time when the consequences of racism and sexism being expressed in the voting booth aren’t AS bad. Not when a dictator from day 1 is going to get elected in possibly the last ever election for the US. Then you run your most boring, conservative candidate who as few people have a problem with as possible until whatever passes for normality in the US returns.

        What do you think that trump getting elected has done for women’s rights, or POC? Yeah, better to be pragmatic because getting a woman on the ballot paper was not worth it and probably set us women back by decades, at a minimum.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          English
          6
          edit-2
          12 hours ago

          You’re making the entirely unfounded assumption that sexism was the cause for those women’s loss rather than them individually both being terrible candidates. And despite the Obama example showing you “racism exists, so only run white people” point is just completely bullshit. People literally made the same argument against Obama.

          There were blaring warning signs that had absolutely nothing to do with sexism with both candidacies. Easy bad campaign choices and cultural movements that very easily explain the losses without diving into the dark heart of man, but somehow you just ignore those to focus on banning women and POC from running for pragmatism.

          Whatever you believe about your non-racist internal beliefs, your actions are indistinguishable from racism. And I’m not sure you’ll ever think there’s an election so low stakes that we can select the best candidate if she’s a woman, because you don’t seem to have learned anything by the event that proved the whole philosophy as suspect.

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            26 hours ago

            My cousin told me yesterday that AOC isn’t left enough for her. That tells me that either we need a 3rd party, because clearly democrats are not even wanted by their own party. Or that women are extremely easy to make toxic. At the end of the day it’s a popularity contest and most people are not doing research. You will get put through the media spin cycle and people will choose to not like you because of your voice, or because you use too much head movement when you speak, or because their favorite comedian parroted a 10 sec tiktok clip about something you said on a social issue, or because of that one vote you made that one time. Women 100% get less leeway. Believing anything else is idealistic.

            • @[email protected]
              link
              fedilink
              English
              13 hours ago

              Run this exercise again like it’s 2008 and you’re taking about Barrack Obama’s blackness. People don’t want AOC to run because she’s just the next woman on the conveyer belt, they want her to run because she’s one of the best politicians in the Democratic party.

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            26 hours ago

            Sexism was a factor. Racism was a factor. As you know, surely? You do know that some people in america would say outright that they would never vote for anyone who wasn’t a cis man and would never vote for anyone who wasn’t white?

            You’re saying that the proportion of those people who might have voted democrat is too small to matter. I disagree. I can’t remember exactly the proportions of the demographic which voted or didn’t vote for kamala but it was clear that more traditional voters (Hispanics were one subset maybe) weren’t voting for her exactly because she’s a woman.

            Answer this - if the dems would have wanted to run a trans candidate, would you have said this was a viable candidate to win the presidency? I’m not asking if you would have personally supported them (assuming they were a decent person/tested politically etc, but could they have won?

            No, not in america today. And that’s why taking the risk that a woman could win for the first time was a bad idea when the alternative was Donald trump and project 25, which is going to be a huge set back for anyone not a white cisman.