I’m gonna be dog piled on for this but Zelensky should have just kissed the ring and moved on, he never had to even accept any deal at that time. But he shot himself in the foot with this administration and now has to play catch up.
Nb4 “trump evil, pj Vance is turd”
Yea I get it. The usual bot response. But think critically. This dudes country is being crushed and America, regardless of administration, is helping them. Zelensky came to the oval office for help but let his pride dictate policy. Rather than play to Trump’s tiny dick syndrome and get what he wanted.
Zelensky could have gotten on his knees and the outcome would have been the same. It was a setup, they where going to gaslight him either way. At least he kept his dignity.
I can’t help but disagree. The US is not the only supplier of weapons, and we are rapidly losing allies. Zelensky probably galvanized his citizens by continuing to exhibit strong but humble leadership, which matters a lot in war.
I can’t imagine putting my life on the line for a goofball like Trump
I think Ukraine does have a reasonably strong position for negotiating. Trump could lose out on a sweetheart deal and Zelensky could partner with other countries instead. The talk of WWII is bullshit. If Trump really cared about a world war, he would stop trying to annex other countries.
Considering that land is being taken. People are dying. And the infrastructure is deteriorating. Yes. Crushed. Regardless of winning or losing, they’re fighting this war in their country. It’s crushing their western side of their land.
Trump is demanding mineral resources as well as forfeiture of the 20% of Ukrainian territory currently occupied by Russia in exchange for enacting some unspecified plan to get Russia to stop invading Ukraine.
Zelenski said sure, but he needs a security guarantee that if Russia continues invading Ukrainian territory the US will help defend Ukraine. This very reasonable
Trump refuses to offer that guarantee and offers no details on any plan to keep Putin from invading further.
From Zelenski’s perspective this is the US stealing his country’s mineral wealth for a Trump handshake, which is completely meaningless. It’s a bad deal and is unlikely to help the people of Ukraine
Can I ask a question in good faith?
If Zelensky agrees to this deal without any “securities” how many Americans, and how much of the Army Core of Engineers are deployed to Ukraine to setup infrastructure?
What does a “mineral resource” look like? Is that a parcel? Or an operation? Who owns it?
And how is this not creating a defacto military base in Ukraine, Unspoken. And providing Ukraine with the American seal of security?
You’re assuming Trump was arguing in good faith. The mineral deal wasn’t ironclad, it was basically “We have minerals, possibly/likey good ones, you get dibs to help us dig them up.” Which is, depending on the details, a fine deal. Also, it’s got ambiguity.
So, given that that’s a future problem and has lots to sort out, it isn’t the worst deal to sign.
So! As you said, Zelensky should “kiss the ring”, well he was there to do that. That was a deal on the table. Zelensky was willing to make that deal.
Maybe I’m wrong and Zelensky and Trump sycophants never would have made a fair deal. Fine. I’m willing to accept that.
But we didn’t get that far. We got as far as Zelensky showing up in good faith, and Trump just shitting over everything.
This wasn’t going to work no matter how many rings you kissed because Trump isn’t a reasonable person, willing to actually fix things.
I watched the whole thing and I don’t even think Trump or Zelensky was the one to shit the bed. Vance opened his stupidouth and started a Chihuahua small dick energy environment. And Trump stepped in because he had to back up his own.
Vance was only doing what he and Trump planned. Trump wanted to be seen as the friendly one so he had Vance and far right reporters start the attacks.
There was never going to be a Ukraine deal, the whole thing was a performance to make it look like zelenskys fault and create drama and ratings - Trump: “this is going to be great television”
I’m gonna be dog piled on for this but Zelensky should have just kissed the ring and moved on, he never had to even accept any deal at that time. But he shot himself in the foot with this administration and now has to play catch up.
Nb4 “trump evil, pj Vance is turd”
Yea I get it. The usual bot response. But think critically. This dudes country is being crushed and America, regardless of administration, is helping them. Zelensky came to the oval office for help but let his pride dictate policy. Rather than play to Trump’s tiny dick syndrome and get what he wanted.
Zelensky could have gotten on his knees and the outcome would have been the same. It was a setup, they where going to gaslight him either way. At least he kept his dignity.
I can’t help but disagree. The US is not the only supplier of weapons, and we are rapidly losing allies. Zelensky probably galvanized his citizens by continuing to exhibit strong but humble leadership, which matters a lot in war.
I can’t imagine putting my life on the line for a goofball like Trump
I think Ukraine does have a reasonably strong position for negotiating. Trump could lose out on a sweetheart deal and Zelensky could partner with other countries instead. The talk of WWII is bullshit. If Trump really cared about a world war, he would stop trying to annex other countries.
Crushed? Are we watching the same reports? Russia is full of little bitches that can’t kill a sick puppy.
Considering that land is being taken. People are dying. And the infrastructure is deteriorating. Yes. Crushed. Regardless of winning or losing, they’re fighting this war in their country. It’s crushing their western side of their land.
Take your own advice and “think critically”.
Trump just tried to extort them on TV dickhead.
But America isn’t helping Ukraine anymore and trump isnt offering to do so now what belp did he turn down. Be specific.
Trump is demanding mineral resources as well as forfeiture of the 20% of Ukrainian territory currently occupied by Russia in exchange for enacting some unspecified plan to get Russia to stop invading Ukraine.
Zelenski said sure, but he needs a security guarantee that if Russia continues invading Ukrainian territory the US will help defend Ukraine. This very reasonable
Trump refuses to offer that guarantee and offers no details on any plan to keep Putin from invading further.
From Zelenski’s perspective this is the US stealing his country’s mineral wealth for a Trump handshake, which is completely meaningless. It’s a bad deal and is unlikely to help the people of Ukraine
Can I ask a question in good faith? If Zelensky agrees to this deal without any “securities” how many Americans, and how much of the Army Core of Engineers are deployed to Ukraine to setup infrastructure?
What does a “mineral resource” look like? Is that a parcel? Or an operation? Who owns it?
And how is this not creating a defacto military base in Ukraine, Unspoken. And providing Ukraine with the American seal of security?
It’s all in the unspecified plan that Zelenski hasn’t seen, much less the press.
I’m reminded of Trump’s “concepts of a plan” for replacing the Affordable Care Act.
It sounds like there is no plan and this is just another grift
That was like seven questions.
1)…7) if any of us actually saw the actual deal it would be news
You’re assuming Trump was arguing in good faith. The mineral deal wasn’t ironclad, it was basically “We have minerals, possibly/likey good ones, you get dibs to help us dig them up.” Which is, depending on the details, a fine deal. Also, it’s got ambiguity.
So, given that that’s a future problem and has lots to sort out, it isn’t the worst deal to sign.
So! As you said, Zelensky should “kiss the ring”, well he was there to do that. That was a deal on the table. Zelensky was willing to make that deal.
Maybe I’m wrong and Zelensky and Trump sycophants never would have made a fair deal. Fine. I’m willing to accept that.
But we didn’t get that far. We got as far as Zelensky showing up in good faith, and Trump just shitting over everything.
This wasn’t going to work no matter how many rings you kissed because Trump isn’t a reasonable person, willing to actually fix things.
I watched the whole thing and I don’t even think Trump or Zelensky was the one to shit the bed. Vance opened his stupidouth and started a Chihuahua small dick energy environment. And Trump stepped in because he had to back up his own.
I do agree with you tho.
Vance was only doing what he and Trump planned. Trump wanted to be seen as the friendly one so he had Vance and far right reporters start the attacks.
There was never going to be a Ukraine deal, the whole thing was a performance to make it look like zelenskys fault and create drama and ratings - Trump: “this is going to be great television”
And they were trying to embarrass him on live TV and admit they are weak. Zelenksky cannot do this for morale reasons.
They were trying to get him to kiss his ass publicly and thank him for being manipulated for a minerals deal.
It was really ugly viewing.
Fuck that worm, Vance and fuck fragile Trump.