• @[email protected]
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    361 year ago

    A hydrogen engine is so much worse for efficiency than a hydrogen fuel cell, and even that is not good compared to batteries. I’d estimate the round trip efficiency of a hydrogen engine to be about 10-15%. So for the same energy that could be used to drive a battery EV 100km, this car from Toyota could drive 12km.

    Additionally, hydrogen is not very energy dense per volume. A compressed hydrogen tank that replaces the boot/trunk of the car would have enough hydrogen for about 100km of range.

    Please let me know if I’m wrong about any of these numbers. For Toyota’s sake, I really hope I’m wrong.

      • @[email protected]
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        1 year ago

        no manufacturer except one that’s still desperately trying to push for a hydrogen economy because they invested too much into hydrogen production

      • KptnAutismus
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        1 year ago

        https://insideevs.com/news/332584/efficiency-compared-battery-electric-73-hydrogen-22-ice-13/

        according to this website, hydrogen ICEs are very inefficient. same with fuel cell vehicles. the main losses come from converting the hydrogen into and out of electricity. but if said electicity is generated in abundance with renewable energy at a cheap price, this could really be something.

        edit: you can’t really burn electricity, so as a car enthusiast i really hope hydrogen ICEs become a thing.

        • @[email protected]
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          51 year ago

          BEVs are a lot of fun to drive. Car people are nostalgic for burning fuels and roaring engines, but future generations will be far less so. We just need far lighter batteries.

            • @[email protected]
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              01 year ago

              I was specifically talking about cars that are fun to drive. The one thing I dislike about my BEV is that it’s so heavy.

              Personally I don’t think hydrogen is the way for most personal vehicle applications. Batteries are improving a lot and becoming quite a bit cheaper too. Also many large car makers have gone the EV route and they are king makers. But who cares, the better technology will probably win out.

          • @[email protected]
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            21 year ago

            Efficiency still matters significantly with hydrogen solar panels, because solar panels aren’t free.

            Suppose solar to wheel is 60% efficient in a battery electric vehicle, but 30% efficient in a hydrogen vehicle. You need half as many solar panels to power the battery electric vehicle, and spend at most half as much to charge it. That matters.

      • @[email protected]
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        51 year ago

        Well. Basically no one except for dumbass boomer executives forcing the company in a direction. Like Toyota.

    • @[email protected]
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      1 year ago

      I thought they were using ammonia powered vehicles and calling them hydrogen just because ammonia contains hydrogen. Wasn’t there a bunch of hype a few months ago about Toyota inventing an ammonia internal combustion engine that was so efficient it would “make electric cars obsolete”? The article just mentioned liquid hydrogen though. So I don’t know what to believe anymore.

    • @[email protected]
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      31 year ago

      I think the biggest thing that people forgot in the efficiency debate is cost. What will hydrogen actually cost to go 100km compared to electricity

      • @[email protected]
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        1 year ago

        The current cost to drive a car with green hydrogen from electrolysis (not blue or grey hydrogen from methane reforming) is roughly equivalent to $50/L (AUD) for petrol, or $120/Gal (USD) for gas. This is one of the reasons most hydrogen today is made from fossil fuels.

    • @wooki
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      1 year ago

      And yet here we are breaking new ground with brand new (within the year) solid hydrogen projects.

      The alternative is the slow charging and short life high cost lithium battery. We need better and efficiency matters not when it’s being pulled from the air in huge stand alone stations now being built.

      • Dark Arc
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        11 year ago

        The alternative is the slow charging and short life high cost lithium battery.

        I’ve seen nothing suggesting a short life. Solid state batteries also should result in short charging times