It’s up to the voters to make an informed fucking choice. That’s the point of citizenship. Voting isn’t a fucking popularity contest, it’s a civic duty.
Exactly. So don’t put the blame on the voters if the DNC can’t put up a candidate the voters actually want to vote for. It’s the voters job to pick who they want to vote for, it’s not the voters job to vote for whomever the DNC tells them to vote for. You have the burden of responsibility backward.
So don’t put the blame on the voters if the DNC can’t put up a candidate the voters actually want to vote for. It’s the voters job to pick who they want to vote for, it’s not the voters job to vote for whomever the DNC tells them to vote for. You have the burden of responsibility backward.
So let me get this straight: it’s the DNC’s responsibility to make sure that the winner of the primary DOESN’T get the nomination, because the voters don’t want him, despite having voted for him?
Believe it or not, most people aren’t interested in another candidate. “Generic Democrat Who I Can Project All My Views On” outperforms Biden, but no one who is actually running does.
No, actually I remember Biden fumbling right out of the gate by not even doing the minimum to register in NH.
I also remember his admin working with the DNC to contact state committees asking them to cancel primaries outright, which several did. Very cool, very democratic.
For that matter, Biden also seemed content to nap in his bunker instead of engage with other primary candidates to promote his ideas. He seems to be leaning quite heavily on the strategy of “not trump” will be enough for him. Pretty irrespinsible if you ask me, considering his claims of democracy being on the line. Why can’t Biden make his case?
So let me get this straight: it’s the DNC’s responsibility to make sure that the winner of the primary DOESN’T get the nomination, because the voters don’t want him, despite having voted for him?
It’s the DNC’s responsibility to put pressure on the candidate that wasn’t sure if they were going to run to not run because the polls showed him getting beat. It’s also their responsibility to not change the primaries to heavily favor one candidate like making South Carolina (the place where Biden’s luck in 2019 changed) the first official primary.
but no one who is actually running does.
And that is also the DNC’s problem. They didn’t put forth a viable candidate in the primaries despite all the polling suggesting they should.
It’s the DNS’s responsibility to put pressure on the candidate that wasn’t sure if they were going to run to not run because the polls showed him getting beat.
So now it is the DNC’s responsibility to put pressure on the scales to change the candidate…
It’s also their responsibility to not change the primaries to heavily favor one candidate like making South Carolina (the place where Biden’s luck in 2019 changed) the first official primary.
… except when it’s not? Very coherent, 10/10 worldview.
And that is also the DNC’s problem. They didn’t put forth a viable candidate in the primaries despite all the polling suggesting they should.
“They didn’t put forth”
Tell me you don’t understand primaries without telling me you don’t understand primaries. Not to mention that explicitly contradicts your previous point about not wanting the DNC to pick the candidates. Jesus fucking Christ. We’re done here.
Here let me point out the parts you seemed to have missed:
not run because the polls showed him getting beat.
not change the primaries to heavily favor one candidate
despite all the polling suggesting they should
The polls showed they shouldn’t favor the candidate they did. They chose against what was obvious instead of encouraging others to run they picked their favored candidate before it even started.
“They didn’t put forth”
You’re right, the wording there isn’t correct. It should be that they didn’t encourage others to run.
We’re done here.
Unfortunately it appears the voters are thinking the same thing. That’s why it’s the party’s responsibility field the best candidate.
Yeah, that’s what I would expect from someone who expects voters to toe the line for the party instead of blaming the party for a bad candidate. Do as you say or be ignored right?
If the voters are too stupid to vote against Trump by voting for Biden, that is on them.
Biden hasn’t done anything to screw over US citizens. Yes, he continues some shitty foreign policies by supporting Israel and hasn’t achieved as much as he wanted because of GOP obstruction, but he has done some positive stuff.
Trump never did anything positive at all, and tried to overthrow the government.
Biden hasn’t done anything to screw over US citizens.
you’re either young or misinformed: google up “don’t ask, don’t tell”; “defense of marriage act” or “anita hill” for his biggest blunders that have directly screwed over many americans.
Sorry that I didn’t make it clear I was speaking about his time as president, since he is running for reelection as president. Your point that nobody can ever be forgiven for doing things wrong in the past is absolutely the best logical action.
Why vote for someone who had done the right things for the past couple decades just because their opponent tried to overthrow the government?
By your logic we should forgive trump too because his crimes were also in the past and he has made greater public spectacle to make up for his past than Biden has attempted for fear of pissing off aipac.
But forgive me; his desire to run despite poll after poll showing that’s he’s likeability is behind trump but still refusing to to step aside because his own desire to be president is more important to him than letting the Democrats run on a better candidate is somehow ok in your book
Dumb actions that were in line with the majority of other politicians decades ago is not a comparable ‘in the past’ to trying to over overthrow the country three years ago and continuing to try to overthrow the country.
It was a stupid point and you are stupid for calling is a good one.
The morality of an action doesn’t change because of the number of people that agree with you. doing bad things is bad. people who do bad things and continue to do bad things and plan to do bad things are bad people. I don’t vote for bad people.
If the voters are too stupid to vote against Trump by voting for Biden, that is on them.
Nope. That’s on the candidate.
Real tough choice there!
I mean, I agree with you. It’s an obvious choice and I can’t put my mind in the headspace of anyone that can vote for Trump at this point. Usually I can at least understand the opposition’s point of view. I will definitely be voting for Biden… However, that doesn’t change the fact that it is up to the party and the candidate to earn the votes, it’s not up to the voters to cover for the party.
So don’t appeal to the Dem party voters, appeal to other people who have an extremely wide variety of expectations that apparently don’t align with the Dems.
If you want to win, you have to appeal to the majority of voters. That’s how voting works… You can do that by energizing the base to overcome the middle or by appealing to the middle. If you pick a candidate that can’t do either, don’t expect to win.
It’s like people didn’t notice how the GOP shrank down to core fanatics and dems won by expanding the tent in their own party.
Now these people think the same level of ideological compromise that should define congress apparently has no place in their own party.
NEWSFLASH: if you refuse to participate unless your ideological purity test is met, you should prob go join the tea party.
Get over it and grow up. A capable, national political party will clearly include people other than you, viewpoints other than yours, and you won’t always get what you want.
Work with people instead of working selfishly against everyone not 100% aligned with your own mental utopia. Your purity test is not a reason to flip the table.
There is nothing saying a voter has to vote or that a candidate has to run. We both voluntarily take part in this transaction and it’s up to the candidate to earn the votes of the voters.
But a voter not voting is still making a choice, and they are responsible for that choice.
The candidates aren’t lords, and we aren’t peasants. In a republic, CITIZENS are responsible for who they vote OR DON’T VOTE for.
There’s no choice you can make where you lack responsibility. Whatever happens - it is our fault as citizens. If you can answer to your conscience in the case of a Trump presidency… well, gods help you, because I can’t.
Yes, it was the voters choice to say that neither of the candidates appealed to them. It’s not the voters fault if a candidate loses, it’s the candidates fault for not appealing to the voters. It’s really not a complicated concept, but you’re still getting it backward.
If a company goes out of business is it the fault of the consumer, or of the company for not offering products the consumer wants?
Yes, it was the voters choice to say that neither of the candidates appealed to them.
In which case that voter is responsible for whichever one that won.
Refusing to act just means that you have endorsed the end result.
It’s not the voters fault if a candidate loses, it’s the candidates fault for not appealing to the voters.
It’s the voters fault that whoever wins, wins. You don’t get to cross your arms and get all huffy and say “Well, I wasn’t going to vote for GENOCIDE JOE, but I don’t like that Trump won! This is unfair!”
Your. Vote. Matters.
Citizens. Have. Responsibility.
If a company goes out of business is it the fault of the consumer, or of the company for not offering products the consumer wants?
I can’t believe I have to say this in the context of a left-leaning discussion, but companies are not democratic societies.
Hey, you got that part right. It is up the voters to pick the winner. Which is why it’s up to the party to pick a candidate that can earn the votes to win.
Exactly. So don’t put the blame on the voters if the DNC can’t put up a candidate the voters actually want to vote for. It’s the voters job to pick who they want to vote for, it’s not the voters job to vote for whomever the DNC tells them to vote for. You have the burden of responsibility backward.
So let me get this straight: it’s the DNC’s responsibility to make sure that the winner of the primary DOESN’T get the nomination, because the voters don’t want him, despite having voted for him?
Believe it or not, most people aren’t interested in another candidate. “Generic Democrat Who I Can Project All My Views On” outperforms Biden, but no one who is actually running does.
DNC actively subverted the primary process this year, so no, the results of this election are 100% on Biden (and his unappealing candidacy).
Yeah, remember when NH made sure Biden was the only guy on the ballot, and he still lost?
No, actually I remember Biden fumbling right out of the gate by not even doing the minimum to register in NH.
I also remember his admin working with the DNC to contact state committees asking them to cancel primaries outright, which several did. Very cool, very democratic.
For that matter, Biden also seemed content to nap in his bunker instead of engage with other primary candidates to promote his ideas. He seems to be leaning quite heavily on the strategy of “not trump” will be enough for him. Pretty irrespinsible if you ask me, considering his claims of democracy being on the line. Why can’t Biden make his case?
It’s the DNC’s responsibility to put pressure on the candidate that wasn’t sure if they were going to run to not run because the polls showed him getting beat. It’s also their responsibility to not change the primaries to heavily favor one candidate like making South Carolina (the place where Biden’s luck in 2019 changed) the first official primary.
And that is also the DNC’s problem. They didn’t put forth a viable candidate in the primaries despite all the polling suggesting they should.
So now it is the DNC’s responsibility to put pressure on the scales to change the candidate…
… except when it’s not? Very coherent, 10/10 worldview.
“They didn’t put forth”
Tell me you don’t understand primaries without telling me you don’t understand primaries. Not to mention that explicitly contradicts your previous point about not wanting the DNC to pick the candidates. Jesus fucking Christ. We’re done here.
Here let me point out the parts you seemed to have missed:
The polls showed they shouldn’t favor the candidate they did. They chose against what was obvious instead of encouraging others to run they picked their favored candidate before it even started.
You’re right, the wording there isn’t correct. It should be that they didn’t encourage others to run.
Unfortunately it appears the voters are thinking the same thing. That’s why it’s the party’s responsibility field the best candidate.
Yeah, that’s what I would expect from someone who expects voters to toe the line for the party instead of blaming the party for a bad candidate. Do as you say or be ignored right?
If the voters are too stupid to vote against Trump by voting for Biden, that is on them.
Biden hasn’t done anything to screw over US citizens. Yes, he continues some shitty foreign policies by supporting Israel and hasn’t achieved as much as he wanted because of GOP obstruction, but he has done some positive stuff.
Trump never did anything positive at all, and tried to overthrow the government.
Real tough choice there!
But maybe if fascism wins this time, we’ll magically get a left-wing government afterwards? It’s like a pendulum!
“First Hitler then Our Turn”
you’re either young or misinformed: google up “don’t ask, don’t tell”; “defense of marriage act” or “anita hill” for his biggest blunders that have directly screwed over many americans.
Sorry that I didn’t make it clear I was speaking about his time as president, since he is running for reelection as president. Your point that nobody can ever be forgiven for doing things wrong in the past is absolutely the best logical action.
Why vote for someone who had done the right things for the past couple decades just because their opponent tried to overthrow the government?
By your logic we should forgive trump too because his crimes were also in the past and he has made greater public spectacle to make up for his past than Biden has attempted for fear of pissing off aipac.
But forgive me; his desire to run despite poll after poll showing that’s he’s likeability is behind trump but still refusing to to step aside because his own desire to be president is more important to him than letting the Democrats run on a better candidate is somehow ok in your book
That isn’t my logic. That is you making a strawman.
dismissing very real damage done to many americans by these actions simply because it was done in the past is strawman-esque and i responded in kind.
That isn’t what strawman means.
they made a good point, you just don’t like it
Dumb actions that were in line with the majority of other politicians decades ago is not a comparable ‘in the past’ to trying to over overthrow the country three years ago and continuing to try to overthrow the country.
It was a stupid point and you are stupid for calling is a good one.
The morality of an action doesn’t change because of the number of people that agree with you. doing bad things is bad. people who do bad things and continue to do bad things and plan to do bad things are bad people. I don’t vote for bad people.
Nope. That’s on the candidate.
I mean, I agree with you. It’s an obvious choice and I can’t put my mind in the headspace of anyone that can vote for Trump at this point. Usually I can at least understand the opposition’s point of view. I will definitely be voting for Biden… However, that doesn’t change the fact that it is up to the party and the candidate to earn the votes, it’s not up to the voters to cover for the party.
Biden appeals to most of the Democratic voters, which is why he is their candidate and why he won in 2020.
Unaffiliated voters expecting him to appeal to them specifically is on those voters, not the Dems.
Except if the Democrats want to win.
So don’t appeal to the Dem party voters, appeal to other people who have an extremely wide variety of expectations that apparently don’t align with the Dems.
Sound logic!
If you want to win, you have to appeal to the majority of voters. That’s how voting works… You can do that by energizing the base to overcome the middle or by appealing to the middle. If you pick a candidate that can’t do either, don’t expect to win.
“I don’t like candidates like Biden that don’t stand for anything, they just try to appeal to everyone and are too bland.”
-the middle
Nice strawman you have there.
It’s like people didn’t notice how the GOP shrank down to core fanatics and dems won by expanding the tent in their own party.
Now these people think the same level of ideological compromise that should define congress apparently has no place in their own party.
NEWSFLASH: if you refuse to participate unless your ideological purity test is met, you should prob go join the tea party.
Get over it and grow up. A capable, national political party will clearly include people other than you, viewpoints other than yours, and you won’t always get what you want.
Work with people instead of working selfishly against everyone not 100% aligned with your own mental utopia. Your purity test is not a reason to flip the table.
Anything but citizens accepting responsibility for their actions in a democracy. ANYTHING but that!
There is nothing saying a voter has to vote or that a candidate has to run. We both voluntarily take part in this transaction and it’s up to the candidate to earn the votes of the voters.
No, there isn’t.
But a voter not voting is still making a choice, and they are responsible for that choice.
The candidates aren’t lords, and we aren’t peasants. In a republic, CITIZENS are responsible for who they vote OR DON’T VOTE for.
There’s no choice you can make where you lack responsibility. Whatever happens - it is our fault as citizens. If you can answer to your conscience in the case of a Trump presidency… well, gods help you, because I can’t.
Yes, it was the voters choice to say that neither of the candidates appealed to them. It’s not the voters fault if a candidate loses, it’s the candidates fault for not appealing to the voters. It’s really not a complicated concept, but you’re still getting it backward.
If a company goes out of business is it the fault of the consumer, or of the company for not offering products the consumer wants?
Do the customers know that going out of business means it will be replaced with a new fascist business which will absolutely destroy the town?
If so, that is on the customers for letting perfection be the enemy of good.
In which case that voter is responsible for whichever one that won.
Refusing to act just means that you have endorsed the end result.
It’s the voters fault that whoever wins, wins. You don’t get to cross your arms and get all huffy and say “Well, I wasn’t going to vote for GENOCIDE JOE, but I don’t like that Trump won! This is unfair!”
Your. Vote. Matters.
Citizens. Have. Responsibility.
I can’t believe I have to say this in the context of a left-leaning discussion, but companies are not democratic societies.
Hey, you got that part right. It is up the voters to pick the winner. Which is why it’s up to the party to pick a candidate that can earn the votes to win.