Arguing with a VP that their expectations aren’t realistic, our market is saturated and cost of are increasing.
“You’re just not being creative enough, 20% annual growth isn’t even worth me being in this meeting. Come back when you have bigger numbers”
Oh okay. I just spent a quarter doing deep competitive analysis on every project on our roadmap and backlog with detailed per line analyses, but sure, your gut knows more.
Isn’t that just the most frustrating thing about working in the corporate world? People like us that look at actual data will never make it past being middle management at the highest. If you wanna make it to the top, you have to be able to confidently pull numbers from your ass.
A guy built an AI model (i.e. wrote a prompt for the ChatGPT API) which generates fantastic looking offline test results for a problem. He promised the execs this will drive significant growth, so he’s on the fast track straight to the top and definitely got some nice bonuses. All his projects get big teams and resources.
I looked at the “projected” numbers, they make no sense, it’s just straight up made up numbers. It solves a problem nobody actually has, so nobody actually uses the output. The real usage numbers are abysmal.
Doesn’t matter, we’re counting on this for growth, haven’t I seen the model scores he demo’d?!
honestly though props to him for exploiting executives, everyone should jump on the train and milk the executives dry, then jump ship and start their own businesses.
My VP just offered me a role on a different team because apparently the axe may be coming down on that whole team, I guess my numbers made the rounds after all.
I have a similar story. A few years ago, when I was young and naïve, I worked at a startup that tried to build electric busses.
The person who planned how long each prototype construction task was going to take was the CFO, who had zero technical experience, when I tried to explain my job to her, she said “Sorry, Justas, I am just a woman, I don’t understand anything.”
Later I heard that CFO in question estimated new prototype construction to take 3 months. That seemed farfetched, so I went to the garage to talk to the assembly people and they said “3 months? We’ll be lucky if we get finished in 9!” To which she replied “They don’t know anything, I am the one in charge of the planning!”
I left shortly afterwards and was the last person to receive my salary on time. They started going into debt and I recently read an article about them going into bankruptcy. So much shit happened there I could write a book about it.
That feeling when you’ve finally found your spirit animal and it turns out to be a middle manager who’s only slightly better looking than the previous president…
If you do tell them you’d need a completely unrealistic scenario for that project to hit a good number then one of two things will happen:
“well you need to think of changes to those projects to get there, that’s what we’re paying you for”
or “you haven’t considered that X initiative will massively boost the numbers, so we’ll easily hit our goal” with X being some project a self aggrandizing jackass confidently promised will deliver absurd results and now leadership loves them (currently that’s anyone saying to add AI to stuff that very much doesn’t need it). If this happens just wash your hands of it and document it as a key growth factor.
The goal of these meetings is often to justify projects that leadership has already agreed on, don’t want to be challenged on, and are simply looking for the numbers they can put on a slide and parade to the board or investors.
It’s a very hard sell to convince them to drop or realistically modify projects. There are execs who will listen to the numbers, but I’m finding them increasingly rare now that everyone is in greedy self preservation mode.
My worst example: a company brought me on to validate and provide recommendations for a big project that was struggling. I looked at the numbers, the margins were always going to be terrible, it needed massive economy of scale and to be successful (always always a red flag!), cost a lot to make, and the revenue numbers were forecast to be low thousands a year. I told the CEO and execs this project was doomed, drop it and focus elsewhere, but they felt it would be a huge breakout success, making up a significant portion of corporate revenues, and the numbers were irrelevant (so why did they hire me?).
They still offer that product, it still definitely makes no money.
More executives are learning the Jack Welch style of management, which is to destroy everything for short term gains, have zero talent, and contribute nothing.
Oh god this is me.
Arguing with a VP that their expectations aren’t realistic, our market is saturated and cost of are increasing.
“You’re just not being creative enough, 20% annual growth isn’t even worth me being in this meeting. Come back when you have bigger numbers”
Oh okay. I just spent a quarter doing deep competitive analysis on every project on our roadmap and backlog with detailed per line analyses, but sure, your gut knows more.
Isn’t that just the most frustrating thing about working in the corporate world? People like us that look at actual data will never make it past being middle management at the highest. If you wanna make it to the top, you have to be able to confidently pull numbers from your ass.
It’s even worse with snake oil salesman and AI.
A guy built an AI model (i.e. wrote a prompt for the ChatGPT API) which generates fantastic looking offline test results for a problem. He promised the execs this will drive significant growth, so he’s on the fast track straight to the top and definitely got some nice bonuses. All his projects get big teams and resources.
I looked at the “projected” numbers, they make no sense, it’s just straight up made up numbers. It solves a problem nobody actually has, so nobody actually uses the output. The real usage numbers are abysmal.
Doesn’t matter, we’re counting on this for growth, haven’t I seen the model scores he demo’d?!
honestly though props to him for exploiting executives, everyone should jump on the train and milk the executives dry, then jump ship and start their own businesses.
His numbers will be fed into KPI’s, so everyone looks good. No one cares if it actually works, get your golden parachute and bail.
I suggest you get your resume together asap. Shit is going to go south really quick.
Update on this.
My VP just offered me a role on a different team because apparently the axe may be coming down on that whole team, I guess my numbers made the rounds after all.
Did you take it? That sucks, my dude.
Yeah, it isn’t much of a choice
“Executive presence”
“Rich daddy who owns 10% of the company”
“Managing by walking around.”
I have a similar story. A few years ago, when I was young and naïve, I worked at a startup that tried to build electric busses.
The person who planned how long each prototype construction task was going to take was the CFO, who had zero technical experience, when I tried to explain my job to her, she said “Sorry, Justas, I am just a woman, I don’t understand anything.”
Later I heard that CFO in question estimated new prototype construction to take 3 months. That seemed farfetched, so I went to the garage to talk to the assembly people and they said “3 months? We’ll be lucky if we get finished in 9!” To which she replied “They don’t know anything, I am the one in charge of the planning!”
I left shortly afterwards and was the last person to receive my salary on time. They started going into debt and I recently read an article about them going into bankruptcy. So much shit happened there I could write a book about it.
Please do! Or at least a series of blog or fediverse posts.
Which community do you think would be appropriate?
You’ve found your spirit animal
That feeling when you’ve finally found your spirit animal and it turns out to be a middle manager who’s only slightly better looking than the previous president…
A good deal smarter though
True
MFW aware of existence in general
Godspeed. Have been in similar spot with the owner/CEO. Instantly killed my desire to continue. Found another job.
I think I’m due for my next job.
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If you do tell them you’d need a completely unrealistic scenario for that project to hit a good number then one of two things will happen:
“well you need to think of changes to those projects to get there, that’s what we’re paying you for”
or “you haven’t considered that X initiative will massively boost the numbers, so we’ll easily hit our goal” with X being some project a self aggrandizing jackass confidently promised will deliver absurd results and now leadership loves them (currently that’s anyone saying to add AI to stuff that very much doesn’t need it). If this happens just wash your hands of it and document it as a key growth factor.
The goal of these meetings is often to justify projects that leadership has already agreed on, don’t want to be challenged on, and are simply looking for the numbers they can put on a slide and parade to the board or investors.
It’s a very hard sell to convince them to drop or realistically modify projects. There are execs who will listen to the numbers, but I’m finding them increasingly rare now that everyone is in greedy self preservation mode.
My worst example: a company brought me on to validate and provide recommendations for a big project that was struggling. I looked at the numbers, the margins were always going to be terrible, it needed massive economy of scale and to be successful (always always a red flag!), cost a lot to make, and the revenue numbers were forecast to be low thousands a year. I told the CEO and execs this project was doomed, drop it and focus elsewhere, but they felt it would be a huge breakout success, making up a significant portion of corporate revenues, and the numbers were irrelevant (so why did they hire me?).
They still offer that product, it still definitely makes no money.
More executives are learning the Jack Welch style of management, which is to destroy everything for short term gains, have zero talent, and contribute nothing.
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They just get someone to fire you if you do that.
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A whole quarter? Make it 15 cents. That’s 40% right there!
You stats guys act like what you do is so hard, and I came up with that on the spot.
No, I think they mean a financial year quarter. You know how companies have stuff like quarterly earnings calls?
Quarter? Where!
In the couch! That’s a sign of exponential growth right there. Just find more quarters in the couch. You engineers are so stupid.
Tsk tsk tsk, infinite money glitch