Oh god this is me.
Arguing with a VP that their expectations aren’t realistic, our market is saturated and cost of are increasing.
“You’re just not being creative enough, 20% annual growth isn’t even worth me being in this meeting. Come back when you have bigger numbers”
Oh okay. I just spent a quarter doing deep competitive analysis on every project on our roadmap and backlog with detailed per line analyses, but sure, your gut knows more.
Isn’t that just the most frustrating thing about working in the corporate world? People like us that look at actual data will never make it past being middle management at the highest. If you wanna make it to the top, you have to be able to confidently pull numbers from your ass.
It’s even worse with snake oil salesman and AI.
A guy built an AI model (i.e. wrote a prompt for the ChatGPT API) which generates fantastic looking offline test results for a problem. He promised the execs this will drive significant growth, so he’s on the fast track straight to the top and definitely got some nice bonuses. All his projects get big teams and resources.
I looked at the “projected” numbers, they make no sense, it’s just straight up made up numbers. It solves a problem nobody actually has, so nobody actually uses the output. The real usage numbers are abysmal.
Doesn’t matter, we’re counting on this for growth, haven’t I seen the model scores he demo’d?!
honestly though props to him for exploiting executives, everyone should jump on the train and milk the executives dry, then jump ship and start their own businesses.
His numbers will be fed into KPI’s, so everyone looks good. No one cares if it actually works, get your golden parachute and bail.
I suggest you get your resume together asap. Shit is going to go south really quick.
Update on this.
My VP just offered me a role on a different team because apparently the axe may be coming down on that whole team, I guess my numbers made the rounds after all.
Did you take it? That sucks, my dude.
Yeah, it isn’t much of a choice
“Executive presence”
“Rich daddy who owns 10% of the company”
“Managing by walking around.”
I have a similar story. A few years ago, when I was young and naïve, I worked at a startup that tried to build electric busses.
The person who planned how long each prototype construction task was going to take was the CFO, who had zero technical experience, when I tried to explain my job to her, she said “Sorry, Justas, I am just a woman, I don’t understand anything.”
Later I heard that CFO in question estimated new prototype construction to take 3 months. That seemed farfetched, so I went to the garage to talk to the assembly people and they said “3 months? We’ll be lucky if we get finished in 9!” To which she replied “They don’t know anything, I am the one in charge of the planning!”
I left shortly afterwards and was the last person to receive my salary on time. They started going into debt and I recently read an article about them going into bankruptcy. So much shit happened there I could write a book about it.
So much shit happened there I could write a book about it.
Please do! Or at least a series of blog or fediverse posts.
Which community do you think would be appropriate?
You’ve found your spirit animal
That feeling when you’ve finally found your spirit animal and it turns out to be a middle manager who’s only slightly better looking than the previous president…
a middle manager who’s only slightly better looking than the previous president
A good deal smarter though
True
MFW aware of existence in general
Godspeed. Have been in similar spot with the owner/CEO. Instantly killed my desire to continue. Found another job.
I think I’m due for my next job.
That’s so annoying.
Any way to force the ball into their court? IDK, “which one of these line items deserves another look”, that kind of thing… if you put all your creativity into trying to call their BS, you know :)
If you do tell them you’d need a completely unrealistic scenario for that project to hit a good number then one of two things will happen:
“well you need to think of changes to those projects to get there, that’s what we’re paying you for”
or “you haven’t considered that X initiative will massively boost the numbers, so we’ll easily hit our goal” with X being some project a self aggrandizing jackass confidently promised will deliver absurd results and now leadership loves them (currently that’s anyone saying to add AI to stuff that very much doesn’t need it). If this happens just wash your hands of it and document it as a key growth factor.
The goal of these meetings is often to justify projects that leadership has already agreed on, don’t want to be challenged on, and are simply looking for the numbers they can put on a slide and parade to the board or investors.
It’s a very hard sell to convince them to drop or realistically modify projects. There are execs who will listen to the numbers, but I’m finding them increasingly rare now that everyone is in greedy self preservation mode.
My worst example: a company brought me on to validate and provide recommendations for a big project that was struggling. I looked at the numbers, the margins were always going to be terrible, it needed massive economy of scale and to be successful (always always a red flag!), cost a lot to make, and the revenue numbers were forecast to be low thousands a year. I told the CEO and execs this project was doomed, drop it and focus elsewhere, but they felt it would be a huge breakout success, making up a significant portion of corporate revenues, and the numbers were irrelevant (so why did they hire me?).
They still offer that product, it still definitely makes no money.
More executives are learning the Jack Welch style of management, which is to destroy everything for short term gains, have zero talent, and contribute nothing.
Wowww.
Thanks for the informative response :)
They just get someone to fire you if you do that.
I’ve seen plays clever enough to dispel suspicion it’s simply a “no you’re wrong” kind of move.
You’re not wrong though heh, they’re on the lookout for yes men I’m sure.
A whole quarter? Make it 15 cents. That’s 40% right there!
You stats guys act like what you do is so hard, and I came up with that on the spot.
No, I think they mean a financial year quarter. You know how companies have stuff like quarterly earnings calls?
Quarter? Where!
In the couch! That’s a sign of exponential growth right there. Just find more quarters in the couch. You engineers are so stupid.
Tsk tsk tsk, infinite money glitch
To be fair to Saruman, this orc didn’t think to use the nearby forest to stoke the fires until he was told to. Not the brightest bulb.
What happened after they used the forest?
The trees slaughtered his workers, broke a damn, and destroyed the factory.
Typical executive short term thinking, yeah, Saruman hit his production targets, but he Boeinged them by doing it.
Removed by mod
Totally deserved as well. They boeinged themselves pretty good.
As someone currently waiting to board a flight home, I am not as appreciative.
fr what’s happening? just today there was another incident…
Upper management switched from engineers to failure MBA people. Not knowing how to do anything, the company is falling apart for short term gains.
They are all Jack Welch level genius with nothing to contribute, no talent, and lots of confidence. Maximum Dunning-Kruger.
You would think that all the doors would be checked again by now
Oh, me too. Makes me all warm and fuzzy.
Well if the boss would quit sexting with an egurl all the time maybe he could have helped out with the whole ent thing
This is the most hilarious summary of the plot of The Two Towers I’ve ever seem.
Wait, who is the egurl? Sauron?
Yes.
Yeah but middle-manager orc was immediately on board. As soon as he knew he wouldn’t have to take responsibility he was just a yes-orc.
At least this time Saruman(c-suite for sure) didn’t catch a golden parachute from the board on his way out the door to guide(Sabatoge) another kingdom(company)
I didn’t really catch this until now, but the LotR “hell” is just your spirit not being let into Valinor like the original conceptualization in Christianity. Neat.
This is like when you acquire a company, transfer the best workers, then ask the former CEO (now VP of something) to meet insane targets and later fire them for cause after they fuck everything up, negating their whole parachute package.
Just like how all public companies focus on the quarterly numbers and nothing else. No one gives a shit about next year or even next quarter. It’s always “how much money are we making in the next 3 months, all else be damned.”
Gotta keep them stock prices inflated. Forget being in business in 10 years. Forget being able to pay reasonable dividends. Forget the strategic plan. What are we doing to boost stock prices RIGHT FUCKING NOW?!?!
I get paid based on the quarterly numbers, as long as I liquidate whatever stock i get as soon as possible then next quarter doesn’t matter.
Jesus I’ve gotten cynical though.
“Always you must meddle, looking for trouble where none exists.” -David Calhoun, CEO, to John Barnett, Quality Control
I love the later bit where Wormtongue says “There is no such army”, and Saruman shows him the army he must have spent an hour walking through on the way in.
“seriously wormtongue, you need to go outside more often”
“He’s coming, guys… hide! …omg he’s gonna be so surprised when he walks out on that balcony!”
HAHA, yes!
And then the solution was to piss off the Ents.
God, I love the extended editions.,
He’s got uruk HR breathing down his neck and the Orc union delegate isn’t accepting overtime
“Looks like meetings are back on the menu!”
Another job lost to gubukGPT
I was gonna make a joke about a Palantir AI service and then I remembered Palantir is a real company now being run by Morgoth.
