• @natural_motions
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    43 months ago

    But if people recognize Trump as the significantly worse candidate, and don’t vote for Biden, then they are fully in support of Trump and whatever comes from his second term.

    No, they aren’t. They simply can’t morally support a pro-genocide Democrat. They cannot support a party that refuses to fight but also demands the right to take all the air out of the room.

    I really hope people learn this time around that you can’t vote shame people into supporting a candidate. Dems really need to reform their approach and reassess, the lesser of two evils strategy has brought the country fully into fascism, it isn’t working.

    • @[email protected]
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      63 months ago

      If you consider yourself a liberal, you have 2 options here. Trump, or not Trump. If you are voting for anybody other than Biden (or not voting at all), you are voting FOR Trump.

      You think Biden is a pro genocide democrat, great, then support the anti democratic and pro genocide republican candidate and we’ll see what happens.

      Vote shaming or not, it is reality. If 2016 is not a lesson for liberals, then we might as well quit caring entirely and just give up whatever rights and freedoms we claim to value.

      Remember when liberals almost had a 5-4 Supreme Court majority, but instead we have a 6-3 republican majority? Let’s see what a 7-2 republican majority looks like 4 years from now.

      • @natural_motions
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        33 months ago

        Sure, and you are actively voting for genocide. You are complicit.

        See how that works?

        If 2016 is not a lesson for liberals, then we might as well quit caring entirely and just give up whatever rights and freedoms we claim to value.

        No, we don’t give up caring, but it’s important to understand that Biden is not a stop gap, he’s not the lesser of two evils, he does not represent a force in opposition the fascism or a “chance to turn things around down the road”. By empowering Democrats like Biden, you are signaling to them that they can keep weaponizing extreme right-wing nut jobs to get their own right-wing corporate shitheads in power.

        I refuse to enable that. I’m done playing it that way.

        And unfortunately, voters like you will need to personally be effected by the reality of where establishment Democrats have led us with their “lesser of two evils, bi-partisan compromise with fascists” bullshit before you actually understand the necessity of Democratic reform. Until you actually experience it you will continue to think it’s this abstract thing where you can vote for whoever the chosen Dem is and nod along with MSNBC telling you that’s the best that Dems can do and “next time we promise, no genocide lol.”

        This coming election is already lost to the right, whether it’s Trump or Biden, they both represent the same direction. A Biden admin is not more workable than a Trump one, it doesn’t represent an opportunity to move things forward on anything that matters. Whether it be climate change, human rights, our democracy etc. Biden proved that with his shell game of corporate pork that he’s shoved through during his time in office.

        So the choice becomes about the long-term strategy – you can vote for Biden and genocide and simply delay the inevitable as the cycle repeats itself next general or mid-term and you again find yourself faced with the choice of empty right-wing suits verses extremist nutcases, pretend that somehow your vote is doing anything to push the right back, or you can embrace the reality that you’re already in a pitched battle against fascism that’s going to take at least a century of pain and strife to win and send the Democrats a message that they cannot win elections playing chicken with our rights.

        It isn’t a war that can be won with bipartisanship, or by milquetoast Republican-lite dipshits with corporate money spilling out of their ass.

        • @[email protected]
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          33 months ago

          Sure, and you are actively voting for genocide. You are complicit.

          It doesn’t work that way because Trump, Biden AND 3rd party are all votes FOR genocide. There is no way that you can vote AGAINST genocide this election cycle.

          but it’s important to understand that Biden is not a stop gap, he’s not the lesser of two evils, he does not represent a force in opposition the fascism or a “chance to turn things around down the road”

          I’ll just say that I disagree with most of what you said after this. Biden IS the lesser of 2 evils, and I believe we can make progress both through Biden and in 4 years when the slate is wiped clean.

          I get that you disagree, and that’s fine, but your take sounds like a nihilistic view that we must burn down the house so we can rebuild anew (hundreds of years later).

          To me, that’s a very depressing outlook that tells me that yes, we should just give up caring.