Okay I’m gonna post something like an actual answer, which I feel like will get downvoted bc y’all are men but whatever.
Women’s bodies are sexualized, plain and simple. Breasts perform the biological function of nourishing a baby, but that has seemingly become secondary to their entity as an object of sexual desire, namely by men. So you have 3 factors - breasts are seen as sexual in nature, sex is considered taboo in many western cultures, and men are generally the ones who hold positions of power. Put that all together and you have laws and cultural attitudes that require that breasts be concealed in public.
Men’s nipples are completely fine though. Men can walk around shirtless (in many places, perhaps not “most” but 100% more than can be said for a woman) and no one bats an eye, but the female nipple is considered obscene because it is seen as sexual.
All this “they don’t” “not in Europe” “yeah aren’t you disappointed” “hurr durr udders” fuckouttahere with that dismissive bullshit lmao
Breasts don’t need to be large throughout adult life for the purpose of nursing. Look at the non-human apes and other primates. The hypothesis that large adult human breasts outside of nursing evolved due to sexual selection is completely reasonable.
Sexual selection is not inherently good or bad. It just is. If that theory is correct, then breasts which are (on many women) large before and between nursing stages came about due to sexual attraction. There was selection for women with larger breasts and selection for men attracted to them. It’s not the responsibility or fault of either sex, and the genes increasing both the attraction in males and the breast size in females are passed through both sexes. Fathers and mothers who have daughters with larger breasts and sons attracted to them will have more grandkids.
None of this comes with the baggage of how we should set up our society. We can suppress sexual activity in public, demand consent, be free to cover or not cover regardless of how it was we got to where we are today.
Isn’t the breastfeeding function part of the reason breasts are sexualized? In other words - biologically males seek a female that can provide for her offspring so there’d be an evolutionary advantage for women who can at least appear to be able to do so.
It’s not illegal for women to be topless. Anywhere that it’s acceptable for aan to be topless, legally it is the same for a woman.
Anyways, I question the argument that western society has sexualized the female breast and that there’s not an inherent attraction there, and idgaf about frued or why even, it’s there. Every person who finds breasts attractive remembers the first time they saw a pair and were just dumbstruck in awe at them, like they were in silhouette with choirs singing.
My thinking, besides covering up because of cold, is a safety issue, on multiple fronts.
You got boobs on your chest, they can catch branches. scratch scratch, sweat, infection, ded. That’s a bad look.
Motherfucking grabby people. especially back in ye olden where ppl took what they could get and it was a lot easier to get away with shit.
Some men be thirsty, crazy thirsty. Or just crazy. Maybe if Helen had covered the fuck up Troy would still be a thing, we don’t know. And not to go full saudi levels of modesty, but there is some truth there. Yes. Teach your men not to rape, 100% could not agree more. But college cheer squads shouldnt do a 10k nude awkwardly dropping their things that are really hard to pick up. Imagine the millions of dollars of damage from ppl wrecking as they drove by. Imagine the headlines, “City Destroyed! Miles in ruins. 87 dead along the path of destruction. {Local university} cheer squad knew their one weakness, they were weak!”
The points extreme but that’s also the point, in its vagueness we can all gleen the wisdom that is the sentences intent.
I can flip it to prove the point. A football cornerback teaching college freshwomen their O-chem in grey sweats is gonna be suuuper distracting, yea? Especially as he has to show everyone how to set up titrations or distillation glassware.
This isn’t new thinking. Modesty has existed for forever. Women do not need low cut clothing (even if it’s my fav) to be sexy. Sex appeal is within the person. Just think about the various ways a school uniform could be worn. It can made suggestive. How a person carries themselves (I call it grace) will make or break attractiveness, writ large.
So idk. There’s a lot there. In my opinion and the law of my state, go ahead. It’s yr body, I don’t, nor should anyone, own you.
I would be concerned for yr safety tho, cuz some folk jus be wack yo and some wack folk mob around w frens. It’s easy to get overwhelmed, for any of us, this ain’t the movies.
I think OP agrees with you too, but the question is more around the “why”. Once, we were also like animals, and didn’t have clothing. To the animal brain, things like large breasts or wide hips means better reproduction. Did we start to cover up because it was cold and we got sick? It makes more sense to me that we started for practical reasons, and the hyper-sexualization came later, probably with religion.
Today, women are sexualized to an insane degree, and expanded to any number of inane body parts and not just breasts.
I think OPs question could also be phrased as “why did sex become so taboo?” And we might get a broader picture.
Okay I’m gonna post something like an actual answer, which I feel like will get downvoted bc y’all are men but whatever.
Women’s bodies are sexualized, plain and simple. Breasts perform the biological function of nourishing a baby, but that has seemingly become secondary to their entity as an object of sexual desire, namely by men. So you have 3 factors - breasts are seen as sexual in nature, sex is considered taboo in many western cultures, and men are generally the ones who hold positions of power. Put that all together and you have laws and cultural attitudes that require that breasts be concealed in public.
Men’s nipples are completely fine though. Men can walk around shirtless (in many places, perhaps not “most” but 100% more than can be said for a woman) and no one bats an eye, but the female nipple is considered obscene because it is seen as sexual.
All this “they don’t” “not in Europe” “yeah aren’t you disappointed” “hurr durr udders” fuckouttahere with that dismissive bullshit lmao
I think OP knows all this and agrees with it as well. I think they were asking historically when the shift happened.
Breasts don’t need to be large throughout adult life for the purpose of nursing. Look at the non-human apes and other primates. The hypothesis that large adult human breasts outside of nursing evolved due to sexual selection is completely reasonable.
Sexual selection is not inherently good or bad. It just is. If that theory is correct, then breasts which are (on many women) large before and between nursing stages came about due to sexual attraction. There was selection for women with larger breasts and selection for men attracted to them. It’s not the responsibility or fault of either sex, and the genes increasing both the attraction in males and the breast size in females are passed through both sexes. Fathers and mothers who have daughters with larger breasts and sons attracted to them will have more grandkids.
None of this comes with the baggage of how we should set up our society. We can suppress sexual activity in public, demand consent, be free to cover or not cover regardless of how it was we got to where we are today.
Isn’t the breastfeeding function part of the reason breasts are sexualized? In other words - biologically males seek a female that can provide for her offspring so there’d be an evolutionary advantage for women who can at least appear to be able to do so.
I think it’s more “Women have them, but men and children usually don’t”.
I’m in Washington State.
It’s not illegal for women to be topless. Anywhere that it’s acceptable for aan to be topless, legally it is the same for a woman.
Anyways, I question the argument that western society has sexualized the female breast and that there’s not an inherent attraction there, and idgaf about frued or why even, it’s there. Every person who finds breasts attractive remembers the first time they saw a pair and were just dumbstruck in awe at them, like they were in silhouette with choirs singing.
My thinking, besides covering up because of cold, is a safety issue, on multiple fronts.
The points extreme but that’s also the point, in its vagueness we can all gleen the wisdom that is the sentences intent.
I can flip it to prove the point. A football cornerback teaching college freshwomen their O-chem in grey sweats is gonna be suuuper distracting, yea? Especially as he has to show everyone how to set up titrations or distillation glassware.
This isn’t new thinking. Modesty has existed for forever. Women do not need low cut clothing (even if it’s my fav) to be sexy. Sex appeal is within the person. Just think about the various ways a school uniform could be worn. It can made suggestive. How a person carries themselves (I call it grace) will make or break attractiveness, writ large.
So idk. There’s a lot there. In my opinion and the law of my state, go ahead. It’s yr body, I don’t, nor should anyone, own you.
I would be concerned for yr safety tho, cuz some folk jus be wack yo and some wack folk mob around w frens. It’s easy to get overwhelmed, for any of us, this ain’t the movies.
You are 100% correct.
I think OP agrees with you too, but the question is more around the “why”. Once, we were also like animals, and didn’t have clothing. To the animal brain, things like large breasts or wide hips means better reproduction. Did we start to cover up because it was cold and we got sick? It makes more sense to me that we started for practical reasons, and the hyper-sexualization came later, probably with religion.
Today, women are sexualized to an insane degree, and expanded to any number of inane body parts and not just breasts.
I think OPs question could also be phrased as “why did sex become so taboo?” And we might get a broader picture.