Nobody here is telling women what not to wear though. “You are doing the same like thlse forcing a hijab?” jose1324 isn’t killing people for wearing them
By saying “fuck that this gesture is possible” the conclusion is that it shouldn’t, which means that women wouldn’t wear hijab in the first place. But as they choose to do so, that means infringing on their choice.
And it should be very telling that in places like Iran women face repression if they want to not wear hijab, and the western countries working towards the opposite sentiment of repression for wearing hijab.
No, nothing about what Jose said implies that they wouldn’t want women to be allowed to wear a hijab. This gesture is possible because Islam forces women to keep their head covered when they’re around men. If they were allowed to uncover their head around men, then this gesture would hold no weight.
in places like Iran women face repression if they want to not wear hijab, and the western countries working towards the opposite sentiment of repression for wearing hijab.
Stop making these stupid comparisons. Iran imprisons women if they choose not to wear hijabs. Western countries offer women the option not to.
Earlier this month a women in Germany was banned from court service for refusing to take of her hijab. The EU court ruled that banning women from wearing scarfes in the work place is legal, if it is embedded in a “neutrality policy”
Fuck right off. Not being allowed on a beach or to work in jobs that necessitate no favor towards any particular groups is not the same as being fucking tortured and imprisoned.
Which i never said. But this is the direction we are heading, if we don’t stop it know. If you take a care to look at history you will see that repression never was just flipped on and off. It is always a gradual shift and it needs to be stopped in the beginning and every increase of repressions need to be seen in the context that there is a threat of it worsening. And oh boy will it be worsening with the current traction of fascist and far right politicians in the West.
This is the same reason why we need to defend all marginalized groups and their rights and not be selective. If it becomes more okay to repress Muslims more, it will become more okay to repress LGBT more again. It will become more okay to repress Black and Brown people more again and it will become more okay to repress Jewish people more again.
If secular doesn’t mean to separate state and religion but to suppress freedom of religion then absolutely yes. Because a theocratic state is doing just the same.
Also it is always ironic when states claim to be “secular” while having christian holidays as public holidays because “culture”.
“Choose” is a very loaded word here. Yes, technically, they have a choice between wearing a hijab and an alternative, but what is that alternative? For someone in a conservative Muslim community, there is an extreme stigma against choosing not to wear a hijab, so it’s a choice between wearing one or being shunned. If it’s a theocratic country, it’s a choice between wearing one and death. Yes, technically a choice, but no more of a choice than being robbed at gunpoint and “choosing” to empty your pockets to not be shot in the head.
Thank you. And those who continue to don such symbols of oppression when they do have a real choice are choosing to express violence against their subjugated peers.
There’s a reason why every free society rejects universal dress codes, and I for one will choose to stand again them whether they are for church or middle school.
And you know that because you spoke with so many of these women, or you know that because you think being from a white western country entitles you to know best for everyone in the world?
Because I spoke with some of them, lived in different countries and my readings are not limited to information about my place of origin. What about you, do you come from a place that lets you know better about the world than mine, or your argument about having knowledge limited to your origin doesn’t apply to you?
That shows how ignorant you all are. Anything that covers the hair and neck is a hijab. You all delude yourself into believing it is some special kind of garnment or some special way it has to be put on. And that is because it has to fit your narrative of what you believe muslims are or how muslims life, with a lot of white supremacy sprinkled on it.
In modern usage, hijab (Arabic: حجاب, romanized: ḥijāb, pronounced [ħɪˈdʒaːb]) generally refers to various head coverings conventionally worn by many Muslim women.[1][2] It is similar to the tichel or snood worn by Orthodox Jewish women, certain headcoverings worn by some Christian women, such as the mantilla, apostolnik and wimple,[3][4] and the dupatta worn by many Hindu and Sikh women.[5][6][7] Whilst a hijab can come in many forms, it often specifically refers to a scarf wrapped around the head, covering the hair, neck and ears but leaving the face visible.
Literally the first picture in the Wikipedia Article shows a women with her Hijab in a style that you could find women in eastern Europe to wear too.
And who can judge about the purpose? And who has the right to judge about the purpose? And who has the right to arbitrarily forbid the one and embrace the other over his perception of the purpose?
It all boils down to white people, in particular white men thinking they are superior to muslim women and they get to decide what is best for them. That is deeply ingrained racism.
I am sorry, but please educate yourself before making such nonsensical statements. Veiling has been a part of culture and religion outside of Islam for millennia. And if you look at the second source, you’ll see that veiling also has been a mean of liberation and that banning it is part of a long history of oppressing women
I imagine because in, “civilized” nations… women are just sexual objects. Watch the ads, the movies, the cartoons, the magazines… all industries pertaining to women are sexualized. You must do this, that, wear this, that in order to be acceptable.
I like how you wrote “civilized” as if I made some comment disparaging primarily Muslim nations. By “the rest of the world”, I simply meant those who aren’t pressured by their culture to wear head scarves.
Actually, I believe Muslim majority nations are more civilized than civilizations with Democracy. Democracy ultimately divides and creates disgruntled citizens. I quoted civilized in my initial comment as a sarcasm.
The flak you’re getting for this is bizarre. There are tons of women who wear a hijab by choice. It’s self expression, hell people even do pinups/porn in them so it’s not like the religious association is absolute or binding.
Women should not be forced to wear a hijab, but they also shouldn’t be forced not to. Feminism is about choice, the choice between embracing traditional roles and rules or eschewing them with equal acceptance.
Fuck people that want to tell women what not to wear. You are doing the same like those forcing a hijab.
Most women choose to wear hijab and are defending the right to do so.
Nobody here is telling women what not to wear though. “You are doing the same like thlse forcing a hijab?” jose1324 isn’t killing people for wearing them
By saying “fuck that this gesture is possible” the conclusion is that it shouldn’t, which means that women wouldn’t wear hijab in the first place. But as they choose to do so, that means infringing on their choice.
And it should be very telling that in places like Iran women face repression if they want to not wear hijab, and the western countries working towards the opposite sentiment of repression for wearing hijab.
No, nothing about what Jose said implies that they wouldn’t want women to be allowed to wear a hijab. This gesture is possible because Islam forces women to keep their head covered when they’re around men. If they were allowed to uncover their head around men, then this gesture would hold no weight.
Stop making these stupid comparisons. Iran imprisons women if they choose not to wear hijabs. Western countries offer women the option not to.
There is bans of hijabs in many places. A few years back France infamously banned wearing them to the beaches and arrested women for refusing it.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/burkini-ban-why-is-france-arresting-muslim-women-for-wearing-fullbody-swimwear-and-why-are-people-so-angry-a7207971.html
Earlier this month a women in Germany was banned from court service for refusing to take of her hijab. The EU court ruled that banning women from wearing scarfes in the work place is legal, if it is embedded in a “neutrality policy”
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/9/24/muslim-women-struggle-with-germanys-hijab-ban-in-workplaces
It is not on the same level like in Iran, but as i said they are moving towards it, step by step.
Fuck right off. Not being allowed on a beach or to work in jobs that necessitate no favor towards any particular groups is not the same as being fucking tortured and imprisoned.
Which i never said. But this is the direction we are heading, if we don’t stop it know. If you take a care to look at history you will see that repression never was just flipped on and off. It is always a gradual shift and it needs to be stopped in the beginning and every increase of repressions need to be seen in the context that there is a threat of it worsening. And oh boy will it be worsening with the current traction of fascist and far right politicians in the West.
This is the same reason why we need to defend all marginalized groups and their rights and not be selective. If it becomes more okay to repress Muslims more, it will become more okay to repress LGBT more again. It will become more okay to repress Black and Brown people more again and it will become more okay to repress Jewish people more again.
Not to mention that… Muslim women go to the beach and Muslim women do work. I’m speaking generally, of course.
Secular state is as bad as theocratic state, gotcha, hope you’ll get your gold medal this summer.
If secular doesn’t mean to separate state and religion but to suppress freedom of religion then absolutely yes. Because a theocratic state is doing just the same.
Also it is always ironic when states claim to be “secular” while having christian holidays as public holidays because “culture”.
Ah yes, the many beatings of women wearing hijab in the western world, truly horrific
It’s impressive how you turned this to be my fault lmao. Fuck you man, I don’t decide what people want to wear. Go take a hike
“Choose” is a very loaded word here. Yes, technically, they have a choice between wearing a hijab and an alternative, but what is that alternative? For someone in a conservative Muslim community, there is an extreme stigma against choosing not to wear a hijab, so it’s a choice between wearing one or being shunned. If it’s a theocratic country, it’s a choice between wearing one and death. Yes, technically a choice, but no more of a choice than being robbed at gunpoint and “choosing” to empty your pockets to not be shot in the head.
Choice under the threat of violence is no choice at all. Indistinguishable from authoritarian barbarism.
Thank you. And those who continue to don such symbols of oppression when they do have a real choice are choosing to express violence against their subjugated peers.
There’s a reason why every free society rejects universal dress codes, and I for one will choose to stand again them whether they are for church or middle school.
In democracies (and absence of family pressure) maybe, but in most of the world, I doubt it.
And you know that because you spoke with so many of these women, or you know that because you think being from a white western country entitles you to know best for everyone in the world?
Because I spoke with some of them, lived in different countries and my readings are not limited to information about my place of origin. What about you, do you come from a place that lets you know better about the world than mine, or your argument about having knowledge limited to your origin doesn’t apply to you?
How many non-muslimic women wear hijabs because they like to?
How would one even get the idea to wear a hijab at all if it weren’t for religion?
My grandmother would always wear a scarf covering her hair and she wasn’t religious.
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_European_headscarf
Umm. Wut?
That’s not a hijab. Please stop.
That shows how ignorant you all are. Anything that covers the hair and neck is a hijab. You all delude yourself into believing it is some special kind of garnment or some special way it has to be put on. And that is because it has to fit your narrative of what you believe muslims are or how muslims life, with a lot of white supremacy sprinkled on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab
Literally the first picture in the Wikipedia Article shows a women with her Hijab in a style that you could find women in eastern Europe to wear too.
You don’t need to speak to a slave to know slavery is wrong.
They’re supposed to mirror Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ (pbut). She wore a hijab.
Shouldn’t the freedoms of women and education of men have evolved in 2000 years?
Everyone can still wear a scarves on their heads. Believe it or not it’s not a new or exclusively religious article of clothing.
Any scarve that covers the hair is considered a hijab. There is no special scarve for a hijab and hijabs can take all shapes, colors and patterns.
Their purpose is not the same.
And who can judge about the purpose? And who has the right to judge about the purpose? And who has the right to arbitrarily forbid the one and embrace the other over his perception of the purpose?
It all boils down to white people, in particular white men thinking they are superior to muslim women and they get to decide what is best for them. That is deeply ingrained racism.
Funny how suddenly iranian women can become white people. Funny how suddenly turkish people can be white people. Just keep playing the victim.
Would they choose to wear a hijab if that religion did not exist? Looking at the rest of the world, the answer is a resounding “no.”
https://www.ancient-origins.net/history-ancient-traditions/veil-wearing-tradition-0017535
https://daily.jstor.org/the-power-of-the-veil-for-spanish-women/
I am sorry, but please educate yourself before making such nonsensical statements. Veiling has been a part of culture and religion outside of Islam for millennia. And if you look at the second source, you’ll see that veiling also has been a mean of liberation and that banning it is part of a long history of oppressing women
Enough said I guess.
👌
I imagine because in, “civilized” nations… women are just sexual objects. Watch the ads, the movies, the cartoons, the magazines… all industries pertaining to women are sexualized. You must do this, that, wear this, that in order to be acceptable.
I like how you wrote “civilized” as if I made some comment disparaging primarily Muslim nations. By “the rest of the world”, I simply meant those who aren’t pressured by their culture to wear head scarves.
Actually, I believe Muslim majority nations are more civilized than civilizations with Democracy. Democracy ultimately divides and creates disgruntled citizens. I quoted civilized in my initial comment as a sarcasm.
The flak you’re getting for this is bizarre. There are tons of women who wear a hijab by choice. It’s self expression, hell people even do pinups/porn in them so it’s not like the religious association is absolute or binding.
Women should not be forced to wear a hijab, but they also shouldn’t be forced not to. Feminism is about choice, the choice between embracing traditional roles and rules or eschewing them with equal acceptance.
Articles from women who choose to wear a hijab:
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-right-to-choose-to-wear-or-not-hijab/
https://gchumanrights.org/gc-preparedness/preparedness-civil-and-political-rights/article-detail/the-hijab-ban-and-human-rights-of-muslim-women-in-europe.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2023/01/28/american-muslim-women-hijabs-symbolize-right-choose
https://www.aclu.org/documents/discrimination-against-muslim-women-fact-sheet