Honestly I think it’s just because people are mean and want someone to bully and trans people aren’t quite as protected by society as other marginalized groups yet so they’re the easiest target. Plus probably from some people it’s fear that if other people are allowed to be who they are then they themselves might realize they aren’t the perfect little cis straight christian they want to be seen as.
My first thought in situations like this is that maybe he secretly wishes he were a she. It’s true just often enough that I think it’s worth considering as an option.
And honestly, I don’t care if it’s true or not. If, whenever a public figure publicly tries to humiliate or demonize some minority group, public discourse immediately starts talking about whether said public figure secretly is, or wants to be, a member of said minority group, then it serves as a deterrent for others wanting to humiliate or demonize minority groups.
A) You’re in the closet and don’t want people to know? Then don’t ridicule people who came out of the closet.
B) Oh, you’re not in the closet and don’t want people to think you are? What a coincidence. Also, don’t ridicule people who came out of the closet.
While what you’re saying comes from the right place, it can also be dangerous. That attitude/idea can lead to blaming the marginalized group for their own victimhood.
I do think it’s more common for gay than trans, and sometimes has a grain of truth. But much of the time people are just assholes looking for someone to bully and hate.
That attitude/idea can lead to blaming the marginalized group for their own victimhood.
Probably a dumb question, but how so?
I just see it as beating the bully with their own stick. I can’t imagine how anyone would see that and conclude that the bully’s victims are somehow to blame. Probably lack of imagination on my part, so help me out.
I think the way you applied it showed some nuance, as you talked about it in non-absolute terms. However, when applied broadly it can be harmful.
If we always assume that homophobes and transphobes are queer and trans, then we assume that queer and trans folx are the ones hurting themselves. It’s a small jump from there to say that closted lgbtq people are the source of lgbtq people’s trauma, which is both harmful and false.
Too many times some shitty person that blamed gays for everything and wanted to rule against them ended up “by mistake” in some party with a dick in his ass.
That doesn’t mean there aren’t actual bastards that hate anything they don’t understand.
I can understand if older people are confused by trans issues. That seems fair. I mean, just a few decades ago, people hardly even mentioned them unless they were making a joke.
When it comes to hate, though, I’m with you. At the end of the day, these are still PEOPLE we’re talking about. If they’re doing something you don’t approve of, then just don’t do it yourself. It doesn’t get any easier than that. No hatred required.
Seriously. Like, okay, you think that the whole transgender thing is a fad, or “attention-seeking,” or any other nonsense. Everybody is entitled to opinions, even stupid ones. I guarantee I have some stupid opinions, myself, about things that have no relevance to me.
But feeling the need to express those opinions, and feeling so strongly about it, and wanting to make legislation for it, and pretending you give two shits about girls’ and womens’ sports when 5 years ago you were talking shit about the WNBA because they were a joke to you, when you will knowingly interact with a trans person once or twice in a year, maybe, in your little podunk town, and since you are talking to them you won’t have an opportunity to use a pronoun for them… well there’s obviously something else at work here.
It makes it clear it’s just an excuse to hate, because trans people don’t affect them in the slightest.
It’s funny. Every time I see someone going on a rant about trans women in women’s sports, I ask them when they started watching women’s sports. I don’t get a response, but I do get a bunch of downvotes. Even on Lemmy.
My son started playing hockey when we was 5. There were an essentially equal number of girls and boys across the teams in our league with many hundreds of players across all the teams in all of the associations in the league. As they got older the number of girls started to drop off. Through U13 and into U15 the boys went through puberty and on average got bigger, stronger, faster, and more aggressive. In U15 we were down to 3 girls on our team. Going in to U18 we will have one. Some of the girls lost interest in hockey. Some left because they couldn’t compete at the same level as the boys. Our best girls went on to play girl’s hockey where they would have a more even playing field playing against other girls.
No, I don’t, “throw a shitfit” when I see a male athlete playing against female athletes (and frankly, labeling anyone who doesn’t agree with you as, “throwing a shitfit” completely devalues your position) but I do understand why those female athletes who choose to play female sports because they want a more even playing field and to play against other female athletes might see it as unfair to be forced to compete against a male athlete.
I absolutely believe in social equality for everyone but identifying as a woman socially and being female are two very different things.
(I’m happy to discuss this but if you start hissing and spitting about my being a TERF or a transphobe I will ignore you and block you and never give you or your opinions another thought.)
Class warfare, basically. These “wedge issues” are used to distract and break solidarity within the working class so that the elites can continue to exploit them.
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Honestly I think it’s just because people are mean and want someone to bully and trans people aren’t quite as protected by society as other marginalized groups yet so they’re the easiest target. Plus probably from some people it’s fear that if other people are allowed to be who they are then they themselves might realize they aren’t the perfect little cis straight christian they want to be seen as.
My first thought in situations like this is that maybe he secretly wishes he were a she. It’s true just often enough that I think it’s worth considering as an option.
And honestly, I don’t care if it’s true or not. If, whenever a public figure publicly tries to humiliate or demonize some minority group, public discourse immediately starts talking about whether said public figure secretly is, or wants to be, a member of said minority group, then it serves as a deterrent for others wanting to humiliate or demonize minority groups.
A) You’re in the closet and don’t want people to know? Then don’t ridicule people who came out of the closet.
B) Oh, you’re not in the closet and don’t want people to think you are? What a coincidence. Also, don’t ridicule people who came out of the closet.
While what you’re saying comes from the right place, it can also be dangerous. That attitude/idea can lead to blaming the marginalized group for their own victimhood.
I do think it’s more common for gay than trans, and sometimes has a grain of truth. But much of the time people are just assholes looking for someone to bully and hate.
Probably a dumb question, but how so?
I just see it as beating the bully with their own stick. I can’t imagine how anyone would see that and conclude that the bully’s victims are somehow to blame. Probably lack of imagination on my part, so help me out.
I think the way you applied it showed some nuance, as you talked about it in non-absolute terms. However, when applied broadly it can be harmful.
If we always assume that homophobes and transphobes are queer and trans, then we assume that queer and trans folx are the ones hurting themselves. It’s a small jump from there to say that closted lgbtq people are the source of lgbtq people’s trauma, which is both harmful and false.
Too many times some shitty person that blamed gays for everything and wanted to rule against them ended up “by mistake” in some party with a dick in his ass.
That doesn’t mean there aren’t actual bastards that hate anything they don’t understand.
Ahh, that makes sense. Thanks.
I can understand if older people are confused by trans issues. That seems fair. I mean, just a few decades ago, people hardly even mentioned them unless they were making a joke.
When it comes to hate, though, I’m with you. At the end of the day, these are still PEOPLE we’re talking about. If they’re doing something you don’t approve of, then just don’t do it yourself. It doesn’t get any easier than that. No hatred required.
Seriously. Like, okay, you think that the whole transgender thing is a fad, or “attention-seeking,” or any other nonsense. Everybody is entitled to opinions, even stupid ones. I guarantee I have some stupid opinions, myself, about things that have no relevance to me.
But feeling the need to express those opinions, and feeling so strongly about it, and wanting to make legislation for it, and pretending you give two shits about girls’ and womens’ sports when 5 years ago you were talking shit about the WNBA because they were a joke to you, when you will knowingly interact with a trans person once or twice in a year, maybe, in your little podunk town, and since you are talking to them you won’t have an opportunity to use a pronoun for them… well there’s obviously something else at work here.
It makes it clear it’s just an excuse to hate, because trans people don’t affect them in the slightest.
It’s funny. Every time I see someone going on a rant about trans women in women’s sports, I ask them when they started watching women’s sports. I don’t get a response, but I do get a bunch of downvotes. Even on Lemmy.
The people complaining about trans in women’s sports don’t watch women’s sports for the sports.
Pretty much, which is why they don’t watch women’s sports except things like beach volleyball.
They tend not to be big WNBA fans.
I watch women’s hockey because I love hockey and women’s hockey is more technical than men’s.
And would you throw a shit fit if a trans woman played on a women’s hockey team? Because those are the people I’m talking about.
My son started playing hockey when we was 5. There were an essentially equal number of girls and boys across the teams in our league with many hundreds of players across all the teams in all of the associations in the league. As they got older the number of girls started to drop off. Through U13 and into U15 the boys went through puberty and on average got bigger, stronger, faster, and more aggressive. In U15 we were down to 3 girls on our team. Going in to U18 we will have one. Some of the girls lost interest in hockey. Some left because they couldn’t compete at the same level as the boys. Our best girls went on to play girl’s hockey where they would have a more even playing field playing against other girls.
No, I don’t, “throw a shitfit” when I see a male athlete playing against female athletes (and frankly, labeling anyone who doesn’t agree with you as, “throwing a shitfit” completely devalues your position) but I do understand why those female athletes who choose to play female sports because they want a more even playing field and to play against other female athletes might see it as unfair to be forced to compete against a male athlete.
I absolutely believe in social equality for everyone but identifying as a woman socially and being female are two very different things.
(I’m happy to discuss this but if you start hissing and spitting about my being a TERF or a transphobe I will ignore you and block you and never give you or your opinions another thought.)
Well then I wasn’t talking about you.
It’s a wedge issue. That’s all that matters to them.
First, they don’t give a fuck about those people.
Second, intentional vagueness that can be weaponized. Be as heinous as humanly possible to keep the base talking about it.
Third, exaggerate issues that moderates care about like bathrooms, sports, and regretted transitions.
Fourth, ideally for them, the left will talk about all the heinous shit and not address the actual discussions.
Sorry, you lost me. What actual discussions are being ignored?
Class warfare, basically. These “wedge issues” are used to distract and break solidarity within the working class so that the elites can continue to exploit them.
Because they need a group to attack, used to be women and black people, then gays and now trans folks.