I think it’s on a case by case basis but having help desk ppl help you out and opening powershell and noodling without any concept of problem solving made me make this face once.
It probably goes both ways, I’m a dev and I assembled computers at 12 yo so I believe I have a lot of experience and knowledge when it comes to hardware. I’ve also written code for embedded platforms.
IT people in my pov can really come across as enthusiast consumers when it comes to their hardware knowledge.
“did you guys hear Nvidia has the new [marketing term] wow!” . Have you ever thought about what [marketing term] actually does past just reading the marketing announcement?
At the same time I swear to God devs who use macs have no idea how computers work at all and I mean EXCLUDING their skill as a dev. I’ve had them screen share to see what I imagine is a baby’s first day on a computer.
Interesting comment on the Mac. At my workplace we can choose between Mac or Windows (no Linux option unfortunately, my personal computer runs Debian). Pretty much all the principle and senior devs go for Mac, install vim, and live in the command line, and I do the same. All the windows people seem over reliant on VSCode, AI apps, and a bunch of other apps Unix people just have cli aliases for and vim shortcuts. I had to get a loaner laptop from work for a week and it was windows. Tried using powershell and installing some other CLI tools and after the first day just shut the laptop and didn’t work until I got back from travel and started using my Mac again.
If you don’t have access to Linux, MacOS is the closest commercially available option so it makes sense.
Also please take what I said lightly, I by no means want to bash Mac users and generalize them. It just has been my experience. I’m sure there are thousands of highly competent technical users who prefer Mac.
Lmao, devs who insist on using VIM and the terminal over better graphical alternatives just to seem hardcore are the worst devs who write the worst code.
“Let me name all my variables with a single letter and abbreviations cause I can’t be bothered to learn how to setup a professional dev environment with intellisense and autocomplete.”
I know it has a steep learning curve with no benefit over GUI alternatives (unless you have to operate in a GUI-less environment).
Which makes it flat out dumb for a professional developer to use. “Lets make our dev environment needlessly difficult, slowing down new hires for no reason will surely pay off in the long run”.
I have serve-web running as a service, but that only works well on desktop screen layouts — from my experience, it runs terribly on mobile. However, even then, my tab layout isn’t synced between devices. My tmux saves all of my open projects, so I could throw my phone in a woodchipper at any moment, pull out my laptop, and be exactly where I left off. Good luck doing that with vscode.
I have serve-web running as a service, but that only works well on desktop screen layouts — from my experience, it runs terribly on mobile.
Congrats, if you’re trying to write software from your phone you should be fired as a software engineer.
Again, it is stupid as fuck for any software developer to use VIM. If you have to telnet into some random bullshit server for whatever reason you’re obviously in a different position. But real, good, maintainable software is not written and built by teams insisting on creating learning curves for no reason.
Or maybe…hear me out…different people like different things. Some people don’t like GUIs and enjoy working in the command line. For some other people, it’s the opposite.
You are making prejudiced, generalized, assumptions and presenting them as facts.
You are at best naive if you think people use vim and a terminal instead of “better graphical alternatives” (which there are none of if you’ve really gotten into vim/emacs/whatever). And we don’t do it to seem hardcore (maybe we are, but that’s a side effect). Software in the terminal is often more simple to use, because it allows chaining together outputs and has often simpler user interfaces.
The second paragraph is word salad. Developers should name their shit properly regardless of editor and it’s quite simple to have a professional dev setup with ‘intellisense’ and auto complete in neovim. In fact, vim/neovim and I assume emacs too have much more features and flexibility of which users of IDEs or vscode wouldn’t so much as think of.
I assume your prejudice comes from the fact that vim is not a “one size fits all no configuration needed” integrated development environment (IDE) but rather enables the user to personalize it completely to their own wishes, a Personalized Development Environment. In that regard, using one of the “better graphical tools” is like a mass produced suit while vim is like a tailor made one.
Just let people use what they like. Diversity is a strength.
I tried using VScode to play around with Golang. I had to quit coding to take care of something else. I hit save, and suddenly I have way fewer lines of code. WTF? Why did/would saving delete code? After much digging, it turns out because the all knowing VSCode thought because I had not yet referenced my variables, I never would, and since my code I wanted to save and continue later wouldn’t compile, it must be quelled. Off with its head!
Anyway, I decided to use vim instead. When I did :wq, the file was saved exactly as I had typed it.
This is either false, or you didn’t understand the environment you were working in.
You have to explicitly turn on the setting to have VSCode reformat on save, it’s not on by default, and when it is on, it’s there for a reason, because having software developers that do not all follow the same standard for code formatting creates unpredictable needless chaos on git merge. This is literally ‘working as a software developer on a team 101’.
You know neovim can use the exact same LSPs (Language Server Protocol) for intellisense as VS Code right? There’s intellisense, git integration, code-aware navigation, etc. Neovim can be everything VS code is (they’re both just text editors with plugins), except Neovim can be configured down to each navigation key so it’s possible to be way more efficient in Neovim. It’s also faster and more memory edficient efficient because it isn’t a text editor built on top of a whole browser engine like VS Code is.
I use a Neovim setup at home (I haven’t figured out how to use debugger plugins with Neovim and the backend I work on is big enough that print debugging endpoints would drive me insane) and I can assure you I have never given variable names one letter unless I’m dealing with coordinates (x, y, z) or loops (i, j) and usually in the latter scenario I’ll rename the variable to something that makes more sense. Also, we don’t do it to seem hardcore, it’s because there are actual developer efficiency benefits to it like the ones I listed above.
By your own logic you “can’t be bothered” to learn how to edit a single config file on a text editor that has existed in some form for almost 50 years (vi). Stop making strawman arguments.
WSL is interesting because it manages to simultaneously offer everything a Linux user would want while also actually capable of none of what a Linux user would need it to do. Weird compatibility issues, annoying filesystem mappings that make file manipulation a pain, etc
In a Windows environment I’ve found it honestly works better to either ssh into a Linux machine or learn the PowerShell way of doing it than to work through WSL’s quirks
I have to use windows for work. Installed vim through winget and set a powershell alias, allowing me to use it similarly to linux.
Windows ist still just ass though.
Agreed. I have colleagues that I write scripts for (I don’t do that any more, I stopped and shit stopped working, so they solve things manually now), they don’t know shit about scripting… and still don’t.
On the other hand, I’ve had the pleasure of working with a dev that was just this very positive, very friendly person and was also very knowledgeable when it came to hardware, so we were on the same page most of the time. He also accepted most of my code changes and the ones that he didn’t, gave him an idea of how to solve it more efficiently. We were a great team to be honest. We’re still friends. Don’t see him as frequently, but we keep in touch.
Our entire .NET shop swapped to MacBook Pros from Dell Precisions for like 2-3 years because our head of development liked them more. Then went back to having a choice after that. So now we have a mix. In all honesty it’s not much different for me but I use everything…Windows, Mac, Linux. Whatever works best for me for the task at hand. DotNet runs on all three so we kind of mix and match. Deploying to Azure allows a mix of windows/linux and utilizing GitHub Actions allows a mix of windows/linux in the same workflows as well. So it’s best to just learn them all. None of them are perfect and have pros/cons.
I dabble in hardware and networking too. I built my first computer when I was 11 by myself. My parents are kind of tech illiterate. I have fiber switches and dual Xeon servers and the such in my house. My NAS is a 36 hot swap bay 4U server. That knowledge definitely helps when deploying to the cloud where you’re responsible for basically everything.
Also, yes. I can do more than .Net languages…that’s where my job currently falls though.
They do exist and some of them swear Mac has better workflows (than windows because most of the time your options are Windows or Mac). I would call them loonies but I’ve seen some smart people use Macs.
I think it’s on a case by case basis but having help desk ppl help you out and opening powershell and noodling without any concept of problem solving made me make this face once.
It probably goes both ways, I’m a dev and I assembled computers at 12 yo so I believe I have a lot of experience and knowledge when it comes to hardware. I’ve also written code for embedded platforms.
IT people in my pov can really come across as enthusiast consumers when it comes to their hardware knowledge.
“did you guys hear Nvidia has the new [marketing term] wow!” . Have you ever thought about what [marketing term] actually does past just reading the marketing announcement?
At the same time I swear to God devs who use macs have no idea how computers work at all and I mean EXCLUDING their skill as a dev. I’ve had them screen share to see what I imagine is a baby’s first day on a computer.
To close this rant: probably goes both ways
Interesting comment on the Mac. At my workplace we can choose between Mac or Windows (no Linux option unfortunately, my personal computer runs Debian). Pretty much all the principle and senior devs go for Mac, install vim, and live in the command line, and I do the same. All the windows people seem over reliant on VSCode, AI apps, and a bunch of other apps Unix people just have cli aliases for and vim shortcuts. I had to get a loaner laptop from work for a week and it was windows. Tried using powershell and installing some other CLI tools and after the first day just shut the laptop and didn’t work until I got back from travel and started using my Mac again.
If you don’t have access to Linux, MacOS is the closest commercially available option so it makes sense.
Also please take what I said lightly, I by no means want to bash Mac users and generalize them. It just has been my experience. I’m sure there are thousands of highly competent technical users who prefer Mac.
Lmao, devs who insist on using VIM and the terminal over better graphical alternatives just to seem hardcore are the worst devs who write the worst code.
“Let me name all my variables with a single letter and abbreviations cause I can’t be bothered to learn how to setup a professional dev environment with intellisense and autocomplete.”
Spoken like someone who knows absolutely nothing about vim/unix.
I know it has a steep learning curve with no benefit over GUI alternatives (unless you have to operate in a GUI-less environment).
Which makes it flat out dumb for a professional developer to use. “Lets make our dev environment needlessly difficult, slowing down new hires for no reason will surely pay off in the long run”.
This is it – the dumbest shit I’ll read today, and I was just dunking on Nazis.
I can run Neovim on my phone via Termux. I can run Neovim over SSH. I can run Neovim in tmux. That’s not possible with VSCode.
Bruh, there’s a whole help page on that:
https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/ssh
I have serve-web running as a service, but that only works well on desktop screen layouts — from my experience, it runs terribly on mobile. However, even then, my tab layout isn’t synced between devices. My tmux saves all of my open projects, so I could throw my phone in a woodchipper at any moment, pull out my laptop, and be exactly where I left off. Good luck doing that with vscode.
Congrats, if you’re trying to write software from your phone you should be fired as a software engineer.
Again, it is stupid as fuck for any software developer to use VIM. If you have to telnet into some random bullshit server for whatever reason you’re obviously in a different position. But real, good, maintainable software is not written and built by teams insisting on creating learning curves for no reason.
I prefer Micro via Terminus
Lol nice bait
Or maybe…hear me out…different people like different things. Some people don’t like GUIs and enjoy working in the command line. For some other people, it’s the opposite.
It’s just different preferences.
You are making prejudiced, generalized, assumptions and presenting them as facts.
You are at best naive if you think people use vim and a terminal instead of “better graphical alternatives” (which there are none of if you’ve really gotten into vim/emacs/whatever). And we don’t do it to seem hardcore (maybe we are, but that’s a side effect). Software in the terminal is often more simple to use, because it allows chaining together outputs and has often simpler user interfaces.
The second paragraph is word salad. Developers should name their shit properly regardless of editor and it’s quite simple to have a professional dev setup with ‘intellisense’ and auto complete in neovim. In fact, vim/neovim and I assume emacs too have much more features and flexibility of which users of IDEs or vscode wouldn’t so much as think of.
I assume your prejudice comes from the fact that vim is not a “one size fits all no configuration needed” integrated development environment (IDE) but rather enables the user to personalize it completely to their own wishes, a Personalized Development Environment. In that regard, using one of the “better graphical tools” is like a mass produced suit while vim is like a tailor made one.
Just let people use what they like. Diversity is a strength.
I tried using VScode to play around with Golang. I had to quit coding to take care of something else. I hit save, and suddenly I have way fewer lines of code. WTF? Why did/would saving delete code? After much digging, it turns out because the all knowing VSCode thought because I had not yet referenced my variables, I never would, and since my code I wanted to save and continue later wouldn’t compile, it must be quelled. Off with its head!
Anyway, I decided to use vim instead. When I did :wq, the file was saved exactly as I had typed it.
This is either false, or you didn’t understand the environment you were working in.
You have to explicitly turn on the setting to have VSCode reformat on save, it’s not on by default, and when it is on, it’s there for a reason, because having software developers that do not all follow the same standard for code formatting creates unpredictable needless chaos on git merge. This is literally ‘working as a software developer on a team 101’.
You know neovim can use the exact same LSPs (Language Server Protocol) for intellisense as VS Code right? There’s intellisense, git integration, code-aware navigation, etc. Neovim can be everything VS code is (they’re both just text editors with plugins), except Neovim can be configured down to each navigation key so it’s possible to be way more efficient in Neovim. It’s also faster and more memory
edficientefficient because it isn’t a text editor built on top of a whole browser engine like VS Code is.I use a Neovim setup at home (I haven’t figured out how to use debugger plugins with Neovim and the backend I work on is big enough that print debugging endpoints would drive me insane) and I can assure you I have never given variable names one letter unless I’m dealing with coordinates (x, y, z) or loops (i, j) and usually in the latter scenario I’ll rename the variable to something that makes more sense. Also, we don’t do it to seem hardcore, it’s because there are actual developer efficiency benefits to it like the ones I listed above.
By your own logic you “can’t be bothered” to learn how to edit a single config file on a text editor that has existed in some form for almost 50 years (vi). Stop making strawman arguments.
Why wasn’t wsl an option?
WSL is interesting because it manages to simultaneously offer everything a Linux user would want while also actually capable of none of what a Linux user would need it to do. Weird compatibility issues, annoying filesystem mappings that make file manipulation a pain, etc
In a Windows environment I’ve found it honestly works better to either ssh into a Linux machine or learn the PowerShell way of doing it than to work through WSL’s quirks
Windows is an option
I have to use windows for work. Installed vim through winget and set a powershell alias, allowing me to use it similarly to linux. Windows ist still just ass though.
Agreed. I have colleagues that I write scripts for (I don’t do that any more, I stopped and shit stopped working, so they solve things manually now), they don’t know shit about scripting… and still don’t.
On the other hand, I’ve had the pleasure of working with a dev that was just this very positive, very friendly person and was also very knowledgeable when it came to hardware, so we were on the same page most of the time. He also accepted most of my code changes and the ones that he didn’t, gave him an idea of how to solve it more efficiently. We were a great team to be honest. We’re still friends. Don’t see him as frequently, but we keep in touch.
Do they exist? Are you sure they are devs?
Our entire .NET shop swapped to MacBook Pros from Dell Precisions for like 2-3 years because our head of development liked them more. Then went back to having a choice after that. So now we have a mix. In all honesty it’s not much different for me but I use everything…Windows, Mac, Linux. Whatever works best for me for the task at hand. DotNet runs on all three so we kind of mix and match. Deploying to Azure allows a mix of windows/linux and utilizing GitHub Actions allows a mix of windows/linux in the same workflows as well. So it’s best to just learn them all. None of them are perfect and have pros/cons.
I dabble in hardware and networking too. I built my first computer when I was 11 by myself. My parents are kind of tech illiterate. I have fiber switches and dual Xeon servers and the such in my house. My NAS is a 36 hot swap bay 4U server. That knowledge definitely helps when deploying to the cloud where you’re responsible for basically everything.
Also, yes. I can do more than .Net languages…that’s where my job currently falls though.
I’m writing python in PyCharm on my M2 right now.
They do exist and some of them swear Mac has better workflows (than windows because most of the time your options are Windows or Mac). I would call them loonies but I’ve seen some smart people use Macs.
MacOS is literally certified UNIX though.
I’m not a Mac user at all, and I’m lucky enough to be able to run Linux full time at work, but it seems like macs should be alright in many cases.