Or don’t vote against your own interests by voting third party. Because First Past the Post means that any third party is going to act as a Spoiler, siphoning votes away from the major party that is ideologically closest to the Spoiler.
What you should do is hold your nose and vote against the literal fascist.
Then on November 10th or so (for incumbents that win) and Jan 10th or so (for the newly elected), start writing actual letters to your congressmen, Call them, email, seek them out in person at meet and greets, and push for voting reform.
Now, the temptation will be to advocate for RCV. This is the wrong move as well. RCV is inherently broken and can actually produce worse results than First Past the Post, while also having some diehard fans who promise the fucking moon. No, if you want third parties to have any chance at all of growing and possibly winning, you need to advocate for Approval or STAR.
So remember, start pushing voting reform the second we kick the fascist to the curb. Push on day one of the new session, and keep pushing. Do the work ahead of time, and maybe, we can revisit the third party issue in the future.
I haven’t held my nose for a democrat for going on fourteen years and I’m not going to start now.
I’m politically active far beyond voting and have spoken face to face with several representatives. They don’t care or listen.
No amount of voting reform will fix the fundamentally unjust American political system.
I have been doing the work and will continue to do so. Voting for PSL in this election is part of that work.
If you’re reading this, don’t fall for the “oh if only we had star or ranked choice” fiddlefarting around the edges garbage. We live in under a fundamentally unjust political system and especially when both major parties are advocating in support of genocide there is no reasonable argument for performing the calculus required to declare one the lesser evil.
it must be really nice to be privileged enough to have this viewpoint. and all for what? so you can give yourself a nice ethical pat on the back when you help siphon from the dems, and the gop comes after women and minorities? not sure what your background is but damn dude that’s some fucked up shit
Ok I’ve heard all kinds of different reasons someone might be privileged, but doing work on the ground for years and laying the groundwork for real activism rather than whatever the hell you call this terminally online bullshit, is now what you people call privilege?
ground activism is great! but this person’s comment pretty much sums up to “whichever if the two candidates win in November, I won’t be effected enough to consider not tossing my vote into the trash to prove a point,” as do all 3rd party arguments. that’s privileged.
many many people quite literally have their lives on the line with this election, it’s extremely disrespectful to put them all in danger for some self centered, ill-thought out attempt at morality.
Occupy died because of “terminally online bullshit”? I guess that terminally online bullshit is either more effective than what you’re suggesting or your analysis sucks.
One whole paragraph followed by a comment like that implies someone is usually talking about the whole episode going on and not just the keywords you singled out.
I still don’t get why you think occupy died, but regardless it wasn’t because of online shit or coopted lingo.
I’ve bumped into a bunch of you online socialists before and every one of you thinks your efforts made some profound difference when in reality socialism is still a nothing nowhere movement in the US and we get more fascist every election cycle.
And whose fault is that? When you give your vote away for free you get rightward drift. Make the fuckers earn it instead of leaving the switch on Vote Blue No Matter Who like the good little liberal you are.
Maybe they just like the GOP but don’t want to admit that they like them.
They also completely disregard the fact that the Voting System itself causes the very problems they have with the political system.
First Past the Post is 100% the reason why we vote against a party, rather than for a candidate.
That combined with the Permanent Apportionment Act of 1929 have caused all sorts of problems. That too is something to advocate against. But one thing at a time.
What background do I need to have in order to be allowed to recognize that the mathematics of lesser evils don’t make any sense?
Is there some amount of subjugation I can be under that allows me to have a materialist analysis?
Literally me: Don’t encourage these scumbags, don’t wait another moment to stand up for what you know is right, voting is the easiest way to make your voice heard!
You: wow, must be nice!
If youre reading this, don’t listen to people who try to mobilize identity politics against you. They don’t know or care who you are and would hate you more if you were a minority speaking out.
What background do I need to have in order to be allowed to recognize that the mathematics of lesser evils don’t make any sense?
A mathematically illiterate one.
See, we live under a system of First Past the Post, otherwise known as Plurality.
It’s a system that forces a two party system. Not as a conscious choice, but as a consequence of the very system itself.
Here’s the kicker. Plurality voting actively punishes you for supporting a third party.
If you siphon votes away from the lesser of two evils, the greater evil wins.
It’s a pretty simple concept. And since we are just weeks away from the election, anyone who is actively pushing for third parties is automatically suspect.
Because the problems with Plurality are not some newly discovered quirk. They’ve been studied for centuries, but most extensively by Kenneth Arrow in the 70s.
What I’m saying is that most of the money given to support Third Parties, comes from people who are on the opposite side of the spectrum from those Third Parties.
Simply put, Trump and company throw money at the Greens and Socialists to siphon support away from the Dems, so that Trump and company can win with fewer votes.
So you, advocating for a third party, are mathematically indistinguishable from a Trump supporter.
My vote isn’t going to be counted for trump, and is for a party in opposition to his program.
You have a funny way of figuring out if someone is a trump supporter. Is it perhaps based on the old “with us or against us” chestnut?
You should know before you keep pushing that line, I will not vote Harris. If there was no party for socialism and liberation, I’d vote a different third party. If there were no third parties, I’d write a candidate in.
If you want to pick up a Harris vote, look elsewhere.
But you’re publicly advocating for others to drop their support of Harris in favor of a third party.
Which is mathematically identical to telling people to vote for Trump. So I name thee a Trump supporter, because that’s the only person who benefits from your actions.
And again, Ranked Choice is flawed to its core. It’s the only voting system in existence that fails the monotonicity criterion. Basically it’s the only voting system in existence where you can rank someone lower and it increases their chances of winning the election.
Ranked Choice is so flawed that every place that implementes it, has a movement to repeal it. Sometimes a successful movement (Like in Burlington Vermont)
Ranked Choice is a step back and actively harms real efforts at Voting Reform.
Or don’t vote against your own interests by voting third party. Because First Past the Post means that any third party is going to act as a Spoiler, siphoning votes away from the major party that is ideologically closest to the Spoiler.
What you should do is hold your nose and vote against the literal fascist.
Then on November 10th or so (for incumbents that win) and Jan 10th or so (for the newly elected), start writing actual letters to your congressmen, Call them, email, seek them out in person at meet and greets, and push for voting reform.
Now, the temptation will be to advocate for RCV. This is the wrong move as well. RCV is inherently broken and can actually produce worse results than First Past the Post, while also having some diehard fans who promise the fucking moon. No, if you want third parties to have any chance at all of growing and possibly winning, you need to advocate for Approval or STAR.
So remember, start pushing voting reform the second we kick the fascist to the curb. Push on day one of the new session, and keep pushing. Do the work ahead of time, and maybe, we can revisit the third party issue in the future.
No.
I haven’t held my nose for a democrat for going on fourteen years and I’m not going to start now.
I’m politically active far beyond voting and have spoken face to face with several representatives. They don’t care or listen.
No amount of voting reform will fix the fundamentally unjust American political system.
I have been doing the work and will continue to do so. Voting for PSL in this election is part of that work.
If you’re reading this, don’t fall for the “oh if only we had star or ranked choice” fiddlefarting around the edges garbage. We live in under a fundamentally unjust political system and especially when both major parties are advocating in support of genocide there is no reasonable argument for performing the calculus required to declare one the lesser evil.
Walk away from omelas.
it must be really nice to be privileged enough to have this viewpoint. and all for what? so you can give yourself a nice ethical pat on the back when you help siphon from the dems, and the gop comes after women and minorities? not sure what your background is but damn dude that’s some fucked up shit
Ok I’ve heard all kinds of different reasons someone might be privileged, but doing work on the ground for years and laying the groundwork for real activism rather than whatever the hell you call this terminally online bullshit, is now what you people call privilege?
This shit is why Occupy died.
ground activism is great! but this person’s comment pretty much sums up to “whichever if the two candidates win in November, I won’t be effected enough to consider not tossing my vote into the trash to prove a point,” as do all 3rd party arguments. that’s privileged.
many many people quite literally have their lives on the line with this election, it’s extremely disrespectful to put them all in danger for some self centered, ill-thought out attempt at morality.
Occupy died because of “terminally online bullshit”? I guess that terminally online bullshit is either more effective than what you’re suggesting or your analysis sucks.
One whole paragraph followed by a comment like that implies someone is usually talking about the whole episode going on and not just the keywords you singled out.
I still don’t get why you think occupy died, but regardless it wasn’t because of online shit or coopted lingo.
I’ve bumped into a bunch of you online socialists before and every one of you thinks your efforts made some profound difference when in reality socialism is still a nothing nowhere movement in the US and we get more fascist every election cycle.
And whose fault is that? When you give your vote away for free you get rightward drift. Make the fuckers earn it instead of leaving the switch on Vote Blue No Matter Who like the good little liberal you are.
It’s the collective fault of the American electorate.
Maybe they just like the GOP but don’t want to admit that they like them.
They also completely disregard the fact that the Voting System itself causes the very problems they have with the political system.
First Past the Post is 100% the reason why we vote against a party, rather than for a candidate.
That combined with the Permanent Apportionment Act of 1929 have caused all sorts of problems. That too is something to advocate against. But one thing at a time.
What background do I need to have in order to be allowed to recognize that the mathematics of lesser evils don’t make any sense?
Is there some amount of subjugation I can be under that allows me to have a materialist analysis?
Literally me: Don’t encourage these scumbags, don’t wait another moment to stand up for what you know is right, voting is the easiest way to make your voice heard!
You: wow, must be nice!
If youre reading this, don’t listen to people who try to mobilize identity politics against you. They don’t know or care who you are and would hate you more if you were a minority speaking out.
A mathematically illiterate one.
See, we live under a system of First Past the Post, otherwise known as Plurality.
It’s a system that forces a two party system. Not as a conscious choice, but as a consequence of the very system itself.
Here’s the kicker. Plurality voting actively punishes you for supporting a third party.
If you siphon votes away from the lesser of two evils, the greater evil wins.
It’s a pretty simple concept. And since we are just weeks away from the election, anyone who is actively pushing for third parties is automatically suspect.
Because the problems with Plurality are not some newly discovered quirk. They’ve been studied for centuries, but most extensively by Kenneth Arrow in the 70s.
What I’m saying is that most of the money given to support Third Parties, comes from people who are on the opposite side of the spectrum from those Third Parties.
Simply put, Trump and company throw money at the Greens and Socialists to siphon support away from the Dems, so that Trump and company can win with fewer votes.
So you, advocating for a third party, are mathematically indistinguishable from a Trump supporter.
Wow if third parties are so powerful then how come you’re not voting for one too?
It seems like a great way to force the major party of your choice to pay attention to your politics.
I’m not voting Third party because I’m not a Trump Supporter.
But you may be one. Mathematically speaking.
My vote isn’t going to be counted for trump, and is for a party in opposition to his program.
You have a funny way of figuring out if someone is a trump supporter. Is it perhaps based on the old “with us or against us” chestnut?
You should know before you keep pushing that line, I will not vote Harris. If there was no party for socialism and liberation, I’d vote a different third party. If there were no third parties, I’d write a candidate in.
If you want to pick up a Harris vote, look elsewhere.
But you’re publicly advocating for others to drop their support of Harris in favor of a third party.
Which is mathematically identical to telling people to vote for Trump. So I name thee a Trump supporter, because that’s the only person who benefits from your actions.
[Nobody cares]
[Jill Stein is a vapid, forgettable cunt with 0 plans for governance or policy change]
[You supporting her only makes you look like the same type of human-garbage]
Hope this helps 🫶
I’m literally suggesting people vote for a party and candidate different than stein.
Did you reply to the correct comment?
https://alaskabeacon.com/briefs/alaskas-presidential-election-allows-voters-to-rank-up-to-eight-candidates/
there is at least one state that has implemented ranked choice voting
And again, Ranked Choice is flawed to its core. It’s the only voting system in existence that fails the monotonicity criterion. Basically it’s the only voting system in existence where you can rank someone lower and it increases their chances of winning the election.
Ranked Choice is so flawed that every place that implementes it, has a movement to repeal it. Sometimes a successful movement (Like in Burlington Vermont)
Ranked Choice is a step back and actively harms real efforts at Voting Reform.