I have been around long enough to know that this conversation has happened ever since Windows 7.
And each time and every time an OS EOL I spend time investigating a couple of Linux distros to try that switch.
This time is no different. From Redhat to Debian to Ubuntu to popOS to Mint. Each one is significantly better than the last.
But even 2024, I’m having to spend time inside the terminal to make the OS act more like Windows.
Tailscale has no native app. Gotta install it in the terminal. I want to use my touch screen in the browser to swipe the back button. Nope, I spent 2 hours on forums and ChatGPT and had to install something in the terminal. I was not successful. My Nvidia video card is not working properly. I gave up after.
Why am I spending hours trying to make my experience like Windows when Windows is right there. Sure sure, privacy and advertising yada yada. Install Adguard and disable services that you don’t agree with.
I deal with this issue every few years grappling with a new linux install. And then gaslighted into thinking it’s a non-issue when asking for help. “No big deal, just copy these long lines into the terminal to install this thing that would take a single click on Windows”. Like being obstinant is a virtue
So you’re saying you don’t spend hours on a new Windows install?
Or that things that take a moment on Linux may take half an hour on Windows, but God forbid it happens the other way around, unacceptable?
I mean, things that take a single click on Windows are apparently not all you do to make Windows usable, otherwise installing it and setting it up would take less time, right?
The point frankly was that I don’t see your point.
Unix-like systems have Unix shell as the most basic and universal interface.
If your point was that it’s a downside that it even exists, then you are basically saying that something you can’t use should be taken away from those who can. Not many allies.
My first computer was all terminal, all the time. It was called the Commodore 64. After that, MS-DOS on an IBM PC (& compatible). I can do the typity-type. But most new adopters of tech aren’t using terminals or command lines… they’re using touch screens and voice commands.
Microsoft and Apple adapted, making their graphical user interfaces more robust, user-friendly, and compatible with modern workflows… and in turn, those workflows evolved syncretically. The terminal, or command-line, is still accessible, but it’s no longer the primary method for installing or accessing programs.
No Linux distribution that I know of has reached the same level of usability, and I think it’s because Linux is a platform built by nerds, specifically for nerds to use. I’m a massive nerd myself, but I can see how a lot of new users, who are used to being able to use their computer with just a mouse, would feel excluded and unable to invest the time to learn to adapt.
There’s no need for bad faith replies; there is nothing attacking nor scathing in my words.
That’s not what I meant, I just took a leap from complaining about the usual advice in the Web involving CLI to the only way to prevent it - as in having some particular GUI as universal, if not more, as CLI, for advice involving it to work.
I mean, for example, in OpenBSD there are no distributions and X server is part of the base system, so they in theory could make a GUI configurator, but OpenBSD configuration is already much simpler than usual Linux, yes, with editing config files. It’s simpler than OpenWRT subjectively. That configurator likely wouldn’t be in demand.
In FreeBSD they still could have some GUI configurator maybe not completely official, due to there being no X11 in the base system, but still functional. Maybe that even exists.
But with Linux various distributions exist.
If you are talking about user-friendly GUIs fit to do various stuff in a particular distribution, OpenSUSE’s one is better than those proprietary things you mentioned. I think Mageia and Calculate Linux too had nice GUI configurations, and maybe OpenMandriva. Obviously Fedora has one, as the go-to “user-friendly” distribution, being from Red Hat and all.
No Linux distribution that I know of has reached the same level of usability, and I think it’s because Linux is a platform built by nerds, specifically for nerds to use.
So you have tried all in the list above and have this impression?
I hate GUI configurators due to my own personal issues with modern UI\UX. They make me anxious. But OpenSUSE’s one in particular even for me felt as good as it gets.
So you are an Edge user then, without any non-MS desktop software, I take it?
A lot of time we spend installing Unix-like systems is, well, picking unnecessary stuff, like themes, fonts, moving widgets on a taskbar, moving profiles for various software, like Firefox, qBittorrent, aMule … , setting up audio players.
If I could do that on Windows to any satisfactory result, I would.
If I don’t count that, installing the OS itself usually takes me like 15 minutes maybe. Not counting the time to write the image, or the time to free a partition, or something like that.
On Linux, you would get random things you have to fix. Oh, weird, the back button on my mouse doesn’t work in Firefox. Hm… Interesting, my Nvidia video card isn’t working correctly. Ummm, my laptop doesn’t go to sleep when I close it, but overheats it instead. Random shit like this.
Because posts like these are fundamentally misleading, Linux isnt a Windows replacement nor is it meant to be (it also wouldn’t make sense since Linux is older then Windows, at least the NT kernel). Honesty if you’re trying to make Linux as similar to Windows as possible just use Windows.
Linux is not like Windows. Linux will never be like Windows. It is first and foremost a general operating system, not necessarily a Desktop operating system.
IMO, that means you will never truly be able to completely avoid using the terminal here or there.
Telling people that it’s easy to switch from Windows to Linux is just not true. Linux just works differently and going in with the expectation that things will work the same way only serves to disappoint those brave enough to attempt the switch.
If you try again, go in with the mindset that you’ve never used a computer before, and without needing to depend on Linux for your day to day computer work. See it as a tinkering side project, and maybe it will stoke your curiosity enough that you’ll want to use it day to day.
Don’t get me wrong. I am running headless Linux for my pfsense and home assistant. There is a place for Linux. But telling me I should ditch windows for Linux is basically asking me to stop using my PC how I normally want to and spend the next few weeks becoming a hacker only to give up and reinstall windows.
If you still have time & energy to troubleshoot you can create posts for your issues. ChatGPT may give incorrect advice.
I switched because my OS drive was HDD and Win10 was slow & unstable. The background tasks of Win put heavy load on the PC because I didn’t have an SSD. Linux was also slow but a bit more bearable, plus it was stable. Did an SSD upgrade years later.
Real talk.
I have been around long enough to know that this conversation has happened ever since Windows 7.
And each time and every time an OS EOL I spend time investigating a couple of Linux distros to try that switch.
This time is no different. From Redhat to Debian to Ubuntu to popOS to Mint. Each one is significantly better than the last.
But even 2024, I’m having to spend time inside the terminal to make the OS act more like Windows.
Tailscale has no native app. Gotta install it in the terminal. I want to use my touch screen in the browser to swipe the back button. Nope, I spent 2 hours on forums and ChatGPT and had to install something in the terminal. I was not successful. My Nvidia video card is not working properly. I gave up after.
Why am I spending hours trying to make my experience like Windows when Windows is right there. Sure sure, privacy and advertising yada yada. Install Adguard and disable services that you don’t agree with.
I deal with this issue every few years grappling with a new linux install. And then gaslighted into thinking it’s a non-issue when asking for help. “No big deal, just copy these long lines into the terminal to install this thing that would take a single click on Windows”. Like being obstinant is a virtue
So you’re saying you don’t spend hours on a new Windows install?
Or that things that take a moment on Linux may take half an hour on Windows, but God forbid it happens the other way around, unacceptable?
I mean, things that take a single click on Windows are apparently not all you do to make Windows usable, otherwise installing it and setting it up would take less time, right?
I’m having trouble seeing your point, would you kindly restate?
The point frankly was that I don’t see your point.
Unix-like systems have Unix shell as the most basic and universal interface.
If your point was that it’s a downside that it even exists, then you are basically saying that something you can’t use should be taken away from those who can. Not many allies.
I didn’t say it should be taken away, did I?
My first computer was all terminal, all the time. It was called the Commodore 64. After that, MS-DOS on an IBM PC (& compatible). I can do the typity-type. But most new adopters of tech aren’t using terminals or command lines… they’re using touch screens and voice commands.
Microsoft and Apple adapted, making their graphical user interfaces more robust, user-friendly, and compatible with modern workflows… and in turn, those workflows evolved syncretically. The terminal, or command-line, is still accessible, but it’s no longer the primary method for installing or accessing programs.
No Linux distribution that I know of has reached the same level of usability, and I think it’s because Linux is a platform built by nerds, specifically for nerds to use. I’m a massive nerd myself, but I can see how a lot of new users, who are used to being able to use their computer with just a mouse, would feel excluded and unable to invest the time to learn to adapt.
There’s no need for bad faith replies; there is nothing attacking nor scathing in my words.
Is my viewpoint unreasonable?
That’s not what I meant, I just took a leap from complaining about the usual advice in the Web involving CLI to the only way to prevent it - as in having some particular GUI as universal, if not more, as CLI, for advice involving it to work.
I mean, for example, in OpenBSD there are no distributions and X server is part of the base system, so they in theory could make a GUI configurator, but OpenBSD configuration is already much simpler than usual Linux, yes, with editing config files. It’s simpler than OpenWRT subjectively. That configurator likely wouldn’t be in demand.
In FreeBSD they still could have some GUI configurator maybe not completely official, due to there being no X11 in the base system, but still functional. Maybe that even exists.
But with Linux various distributions exist.
If you are talking about user-friendly GUIs fit to do various stuff in a particular distribution, OpenSUSE’s one is better than those proprietary things you mentioned. I think Mageia and Calculate Linux too had nice GUI configurations, and maybe OpenMandriva. Obviously Fedora has one, as the go-to “user-friendly” distribution, being from Red Hat and all.
So you have tried all in the list above and have this impression?
I hate GUI configurators due to my own personal issues with modern UI\UX. They make me anxious. But OpenSUSE’s one in particular even for me felt as good as it gets.
I have never spent hours on a Windows install. Full stop.
This is my routine. Install windows, sign in. Install tailscale. Change my trackpad settings. Done.
My Adguard takes care of the rest.
So you are an Edge user then, without any non-MS desktop software, I take it?
A lot of time we spend installing Unix-like systems is, well, picking unnecessary stuff, like themes, fonts, moving widgets on a taskbar, moving profiles for various software, like Firefox, qBittorrent, aMule … , setting up audio players.
If I could do that on Windows to any satisfactory result, I would.
If I don’t count that, installing the OS itself usually takes me like 15 minutes maybe. Not counting the time to write the image, or the time to free a partition, or something like that.
Yes, I use edge.
On Linux, you would get random things you have to fix. Oh, weird, the back button on my mouse doesn’t work in Firefox. Hm… Interesting, my Nvidia video card isn’t working correctly. Ummm, my laptop doesn’t go to sleep when I close it, but overheats it instead. Random shit like this.
No, I wouldn’t and I don’t.
Good thing you’re not me.
Because posts like these are fundamentally misleading, Linux isnt a Windows replacement nor is it meant to be (it also wouldn’t make sense since Linux is older then Windows, at least the NT kernel). Honesty if you’re trying to make Linux as similar to Windows as possible just use Windows.
Maybe you’ve been sold a bit of a lie.
Linux is not like Windows. Linux will never be like Windows. It is first and foremost a general operating system, not necessarily a Desktop operating system.
IMO, that means you will never truly be able to completely avoid using the terminal here or there.
Telling people that it’s easy to switch from Windows to Linux is just not true. Linux just works differently and going in with the expectation that things will work the same way only serves to disappoint those brave enough to attempt the switch.
If you try again, go in with the mindset that you’ve never used a computer before, and without needing to depend on Linux for your day to day computer work. See it as a tinkering side project, and maybe it will stoke your curiosity enough that you’ll want to use it day to day.
Absolutely.
Don’t get me wrong. I am running headless Linux for my pfsense and home assistant. There is a place for Linux. But telling me I should ditch windows for Linux is basically asking me to stop using my PC how I normally want to and spend the next few weeks becoming a hacker only to give up and reinstall windows.
If you still have time & energy to troubleshoot you can create posts for your issues. ChatGPT may give incorrect advice.
I switched because my OS drive was HDD and Win10 was slow & unstable. The background tasks of Win put heavy load on the PC because I didn’t have an SSD. Linux was also slow but a bit more bearable, plus it was stable. Did an SSD upgrade years later.
You can achieve the same thing by installing Tiny11.