Honestly it’s absolutely shocking that there are anti-abortion women at all tbh but it’s also in the same country where half the country wants to elect an inept treasonous convict
there are a lot of women in jeebus camp who’ve been indoctrinated since birth to do what they’re told by men. they argue that it frees them of the ‘burden’ of thinking for themselves and making their own decisions. because the belief that those things are too much work for a woman is part of the indoctrination
A lot of working class men and enbies are taught to think that way too when it comes to questioning Capital or the government. Most people want to avoid pain and effort. If society tells them that taking responsibility for their own lives is painful, they won’t do it. Look at how many people “hate talking about politics”. It’s learned helplessness. They don’t want to be involved in making the decisions that affect their lives. They want a strong person to do it for them. That’s why fascism is able to fester.
As a relatively indecisive person (after I found out about Lemmy it took me around two years to decide on an instance to sign up to), I totally get the zen of not having to make your own decisions.
What I don’t get is wanting to force my choice on others.
letting someone else decide for you IS a decision (which you’re 100% free to make), but it has consequences just like any other decision. maybe it’s easier to just blame someone else for everything that goes wrong–i could never live that way
How many of these anti abortion politicians have sent their mistresses out of state for abortions, probably even pressuring or coercing them using their more advanced legal, financial, and social standings?
Even as a personal belief it can be problematic when it causes harm to children you have while your own life circumstances don’t really make that a good idea (e.g. being gravely ill and dying soon after the birth, leaving the child a predictable orphan; having genetic diseases that will kill any children you have after significant suffering with no chance of a cure;…). There are always at least two people to consider in any decision not to abort, even if one is only a future potential person (but unlike the decision to abort, where that person does not exist in that future, when they are born they actually can suffer).
It isn’t really shocking if you look at it objectively and see from their perspective for a moment.
A genuine pro-lifer, by definition, believes that abortion is morally equivalent to murdering a newborn, because the unborn is equivalent to a baby, to them.
So imagine how such a person would read what you just said:
It is perfectly fine being against murder for personal beliefs, but to be against giving others the choice to murder is shocking.
It’s understandable that the above sentiment would come off like the words of a madman.
Because there is truly no ‘debate’ to actually be had about whether or not one believes the unborn ‘count’ as babies, it’s completely futile to argue with pro-lifers on that axis.
Nor should one be surprised that they are ‘anti choice for others’ when itI comes to this, as I am sure you are against others having the choice to murder at will, regardless of whether you wish to murder anyone.
It’s like saying that it’s shocking that a hypothetical group of people who believe theft is the worst possible crime you can commit, believe in capital punishment for thieves. Sure, it sounds bizarre to everyone else, but it shouldn’t be surprising at all that they feel that way, given that they believe.
Majorities of both men (61%) and women (64%) express support for legal abortion.
Abortion isn’t a ‘battle of the sexes’ topic, and you should be wary of anyone perpetuating this myth. In my experience, those most likely to do so, are those who see men in general as ‘the enemy’, and use this narrative as a tool to confirm and spread their bias.
It isn’t really absurd though, I don’t think. If one genuinely believes abortion is murder, it makes perfect sense for that person to not be pro-choice, the same way the rest of us are against people being allowed to legally kill newborns. Whether that individual person is capable of being pregnant does not actually factor into it at all, it’s just a matter of what one believes about how the unborn should be ‘considered’ (i.e. baby vs. ‘clump of cells’).
I have no problem with abortion, so I don’t agree with pro-lifers, but I am not at all confused by it. The opposition to abortion directly follows from their beliefs about the unborn.
That said, though the two are often conflated, just because someone is pro-choice doesn’t necessarily mean they’re okay with abortion, they could very well be someone who believes more strongly in the individual’s right to choose, than in everyone copying them. I’ve met a large number of women who are fiercely pro-choice but have said they couldn’t bear to abort their own pregnancy, even if it was unwanted.
Honestly it’s absolutely shocking that there are anti-abortion women at all tbh but it’s also in the same country where half the country wants to elect an inept treasonous convict
there are a lot of women in jeebus camp who’ve been indoctrinated since birth to do what they’re told by men. they argue that it frees them of the ‘burden’ of thinking for themselves and making their own decisions. because the belief that those things are too much work for a woman is part of the indoctrination
A lot of working class men and enbies are taught to think that way too when it comes to questioning Capital or the government. Most people want to avoid pain and effort. If society tells them that taking responsibility for their own lives is painful, they won’t do it. Look at how many people “hate talking about politics”. It’s learned helplessness. They don’t want to be involved in making the decisions that affect their lives. They want a strong person to do it for them. That’s why fascism is able to fester.
As a relatively indecisive person (after I found out about Lemmy it took me around two years to decide on an instance to sign up to), I totally get the zen of not having to make your own decisions.
What I don’t get is wanting to force my choice on others.
letting someone else decide for you IS a decision (which you’re 100% free to make), but it has consequences just like any other decision. maybe it’s easier to just blame someone else for everything that goes wrong–i could never live that way
Rich people know that they are exempt to most rules and sometimes they just want to impose them on others.
100%
How many of these anti abortion politicians have sent their mistresses out of state for abortions, probably even pressuring or coercing them using their more advanced legal, financial, and social standings?
Need babies for war
It is perfectly fine being anti-abortion for personal beliefs, but to be anti-choice for others is shocking.
Even as a personal belief it can be problematic when it causes harm to children you have while your own life circumstances don’t really make that a good idea (e.g. being gravely ill and dying soon after the birth, leaving the child a predictable orphan; having genetic diseases that will kill any children you have after significant suffering with no chance of a cure;…). There are always at least two people to consider in any decision not to abort, even if one is only a future potential person (but unlike the decision to abort, where that person does not exist in that future, when they are born they actually can suffer).
It isn’t really shocking if you look at it objectively and see from their perspective for a moment.
A genuine pro-lifer, by definition, believes that abortion is morally equivalent to murdering a newborn, because the unborn is equivalent to a baby, to them.
So imagine how such a person would read what you just said:
It’s understandable that the above sentiment would come off like the words of a madman.
Because there is truly no ‘debate’ to actually be had about whether or not one believes the unborn ‘count’ as babies, it’s completely futile to argue with pro-lifers on that axis.
Nor should one be surprised that they are ‘anti choice for others’ when itI comes to this, as I am sure you are against others having the choice to murder at will, regardless of whether you wish to murder anyone.
It’s like saying that it’s shocking that a hypothetical group of people who believe theft is the worst possible crime you can commit, believe in capital punishment for thieves. Sure, it sounds bizarre to everyone else, but it shouldn’t be surprising at all that they feel that way, given that they believe.
And if these women had an ectopic pregnancy they’d be the first in line to abort it while denying that right to other women.
Those numbers are horseshit though, lol. There is no significant difference between the sexes on this topic:
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/
Abortion isn’t a ‘battle of the sexes’ topic, and you should be wary of anyone perpetuating this myth. In my experience, those most likely to do so, are those who see men in general as ‘the enemy’, and use this narrative as a tool to confirm and spread their bias.
I was only saying it was just absurd there are women who are not pro-choice. Thanks for linking this correcting OP, though.
It isn’t really absurd though, I don’t think. If one genuinely believes abortion is murder, it makes perfect sense for that person to not be pro-choice, the same way the rest of us are against people being allowed to legally kill newborns. Whether that individual person is capable of being pregnant does not actually factor into it at all, it’s just a matter of what one believes about how the unborn should be ‘considered’ (i.e. baby vs. ‘clump of cells’).
I have no problem with abortion, so I don’t agree with pro-lifers, but I am not at all confused by it. The opposition to abortion directly follows from their beliefs about the unborn.
That said, though the two are often conflated, just because someone is pro-choice doesn’t necessarily mean they’re okay with abortion, they could very well be someone who believes more strongly in the individual’s right to choose, than in everyone copying them. I’ve met a large number of women who are fiercely pro-choice but have said they couldn’t bear to abort their own pregnancy, even if it was unwanted.
Well, a lot of women think life begins at conception, not at birth. And yeah, complications happen, but that’s life.