You work on changing it between and across elections. When in the ballot booth with fixed options, you pick the least harmful for the most at risk in the community, of the candidates that actually have a competitive chance of winning.
That’s how it’s going to be as long as we continue to use First Past the Post voting.
And since the only people who have the desire, and potentially the power, to change that are Progressives who caucus with the Democrats, vote Progressive in the primaries and Democrat in the general. If you’re not willing to do that, then yeah you might as well get comfortable with the current system.
Not only, it’s democracy at it’s core. Because there is no "perfect " leader, it’s an illusion that people like trump are more than happy to sell for the masses, but unfortunately even some progressive are buying it. Democracy is based on pragmatic nagotiations and gradual progress.
But there is a big difference between “perfect” and “beholden at all, in any fucking way, to their constituents.”
The DNC gets to refuse to run any progressive policies and say shit like “nothing will fundamentally change” because their entire policy is “at least I’m not Trump.”
Get enough Progressives and enough left-leaning Democrats together on the issue of rank choice voting, and it really could happen. Obviously, I’m of the opinion that it’s the only way it could happen. So even if the chances are small, it’s what I think we should shoot for.
I mean I wasn’t saying you’re wrong just pointing that the representation doesn’t need to be “perfect”
But also voting for the party that has sued to keep 3rd party off ballots & runs attack ads on third parties to hope that they eventually allow ranked choice or star or etc. is kinda not exactly looking probable but hey, here’s hoping.
Yes it sucks but that’s reality. Until half of America stops being fascist sympathizers at best this is what you have to deal with.
You guys are looking at the choice between eating a salad and swallowing a cyanide pill and complaining that you’d rather have pizza. Unfortunately, pizza isn’t on the table and if you do nothing that cyanide pill is getting forced down everyone’s throat. Complain about it as much as you like but at the end of the day you better choke down that god damn salad before we all get completely fucked over.
“Vote to kill your family or kill yourself.” Is quite the uh… great democratic message that really says “DNC, vote for us, because we’re not (all) openly facist.”
Like I know you probably did not brain that whole thing through there but like fucking lol.
Anyways my point was a counter to needing a perfect representative. They don’t need to be perfect, just need to actually care about what their constituents want/need. Yeah it is bad. Duh. We know it is fucked up that’s why people are discussing alternative ways to vote that do not boil down to Evil and slightly less evil. We don’t need pure good as a candidate. Just… someone who listens to those they want to vote for them?
Like… not actively supporting and contributing to genocide would be a cool start? Public health care would also be nice…
2020 saw 66% voter turnout, and 2018 saw 49% turnout. Both are records for a presidential and non-presidential year. Only 37% of Americans voted in all three elections in 2018, 2020, and 2022. Politicians do care about what their constituents want/need. They do listen. But they only care about and listen to the ones who vote. People who don’t vote don’t get a say, it’s really as simple as that, and the online cohort that cries most loudly about third parties and alternative means of governance usually does exactly zero between presidential election years to make any of that viable. Jill Stein will disappear again until 2028, like clockwork.
Progressives are only about 12% of the population. What you want is only a small part of the overall picture. The fact remains that just because you don’t feel like politicians are listening to you doesn’t mean they’re not listening to the huge numbers of people elsewhere on the political spectrum who probably fundamentally disagree with you on a number of different issues and think of something completely different when they talk about what they want in the healthcare system.
Being a part of a pluralistic democracy means having to wrestle with the fact that you are not the center of the universe, and that the entire population probably doesn’t think like you do, and they get to vote, too.
But also, when you split shit 50%, 12% progressive is basically 24% of your base. Actively ignoring 24% of your base seems fucking crazy, but again. Sure dude. The 2016 election went so well for them when they actively antagonised progressives. I’m sure that great strategy will keep paying off.
Also I’ve voted in every major and minor election since I turned 18. But my favourite part is you’re supposed to vote. But you’re told you have to vote for one of two candidates because the others are spoilers. But then they look at less than a third of a percent of the vote going to progressive party and ignore us.
Always cool.
Also, PSL is constantly doing work, organizing, and helping out communities. Their website honestly doesn’t even have a thing on the front about their presidential candidate last I remember checking.
You are right, and this is what I would end up doing if I were an American citizen, however I am not, and have never even visited either American continent.
However, as someone who grew up as an abused child, harmed by a society that blamed me for being poor, disabled, autistic, and an immigrant, I cannot help but feel that I would gladly swap my own life to save even one innocent person harmed by state terrorism. It leaves me feeling like I would prefer to be dead that see this happening.
Is this going to be American politics for the rest of time: continually voting for least worst of two options which will cause observable harm?
If yes, it would be nice if that changes at some point, thanks.
You work on changing it between and across elections. When in the ballot booth with fixed options, you pick the least harmful for the most at risk in the community, of the candidates that actually have a competitive chance of winning.
Support single transferable vote ranked choice voting if you want more options.
Approval voting is also good. Really any of the alternatives create more representative outcomes.
That’s how it’s going to be as long as we continue to use First Past the Post voting.
And since the only people who have the desire, and potentially the power, to change that are Progressives who caucus with the Democrats, vote Progressive in the primaries and Democrat in the general. If you’re not willing to do that, then yeah you might as well get comfortable with the current system.
Not only, it’s democracy at it’s core. Because there is no "perfect " leader, it’s an illusion that people like trump are more than happy to sell for the masses, but unfortunately even some progressive are buying it. Democracy is based on pragmatic nagotiations and gradual progress.
But there is a big difference between “perfect” and “beholden at all, in any fucking way, to their constituents.”
The DNC gets to refuse to run any progressive policies and say shit like “nothing will fundamentally change” because their entire policy is “at least I’m not Trump.”
Hence
Get enough Progressives and enough left-leaning Democrats together on the issue of rank choice voting, and it really could happen. Obviously, I’m of the opinion that it’s the only way it could happen. So even if the chances are small, it’s what I think we should shoot for.
I mean I wasn’t saying you’re wrong just pointing that the representation doesn’t need to be “perfect”
But also voting for the party that has sued to keep 3rd party off ballots & runs attack ads on third parties to hope that they eventually allow ranked choice or star or etc. is kinda not exactly looking probable but hey, here’s hoping.
Yes it sucks but that’s reality. Until half of America stops being fascist sympathizers at best this is what you have to deal with.
You guys are looking at the choice between eating a salad and swallowing a cyanide pill and complaining that you’d rather have pizza. Unfortunately, pizza isn’t on the table and if you do nothing that cyanide pill is getting forced down everyone’s throat. Complain about it as much as you like but at the end of the day you better choke down that god damn salad before we all get completely fucked over.
“Vote to kill your family or kill yourself.” Is quite the uh… great democratic message that really says “DNC, vote for us, because we’re not (all) openly facist.”
Like I know you probably did not brain that whole thing through there but like fucking lol.
Anyways my point was a counter to needing a perfect representative. They don’t need to be perfect, just need to actually care about what their constituents want/need. Yeah it is bad. Duh. We know it is fucked up that’s why people are discussing alternative ways to vote that do not boil down to Evil and slightly less evil. We don’t need pure good as a candidate. Just… someone who listens to those they want to vote for them?
Like… not actively supporting and contributing to genocide would be a cool start? Public health care would also be nice…
So two things:
2020 saw 66% voter turnout, and 2018 saw 49% turnout. Both are records for a presidential and non-presidential year. Only 37% of Americans voted in all three elections in 2018, 2020, and 2022. Politicians do care about what their constituents want/need. They do listen. But they only care about and listen to the ones who vote. People who don’t vote don’t get a say, it’s really as simple as that, and the online cohort that cries most loudly about third parties and alternative means of governance usually does exactly zero between presidential election years to make any of that viable. Jill Stein will disappear again until 2028, like clockwork.
Progressives are only about 12% of the population. What you want is only a small part of the overall picture. The fact remains that just because you don’t feel like politicians are listening to you doesn’t mean they’re not listening to the huge numbers of people elsewhere on the political spectrum who probably fundamentally disagree with you on a number of different issues and think of something completely different when they talk about what they want in the healthcare system.
Being a part of a pluralistic democracy means having to wrestle with the fact that you are not the center of the universe, and that the entire population probably doesn’t think like you do, and they get to vote, too.
Damn I didn’t know 69% was a small number of people.
https://thehill.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/04/wat_04242020.jpg
Or 55%
https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx
Or 60+%
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/10/23/7-facts-about-americans-views-of-money-in-politics/
Boy, I sure have unpopular ideas I would liked
But also, when you split shit 50%, 12% progressive is basically 24% of your base. Actively ignoring 24% of your base seems fucking crazy, but again. Sure dude. The 2016 election went so well for them when they actively antagonised progressives. I’m sure that great strategy will keep paying off.
Also I’ve voted in every major and minor election since I turned 18. But my favourite part is you’re supposed to vote. But you’re told you have to vote for one of two candidates because the others are spoilers. But then they look at less than a third of a percent of the vote going to progressive party and ignore us.
Always cool.
Also, PSL is constantly doing work, organizing, and helping out communities. Their website honestly doesn’t even have a thing on the front about their presidential candidate last I remember checking.
I call it “defensive” voting. Not voting for actual progress, just voting to prevent further deterioration.
I put practicality over ideology, and in accordance with this have already voted for Harris. But I can still express my disappointment.
You are right, and this is what I would end up doing if I were an American citizen, however I am not, and have never even visited either American continent.
However, as someone who grew up as an abused child, harmed by a society that blamed me for being poor, disabled, autistic, and an immigrant, I cannot help but feel that I would gladly swap my own life to save even one innocent person harmed by state terrorism. It leaves me feeling like I would prefer to be dead that see this happening.
Thats the natural end game of capitalism, yes.
Not much you can do about it, it’s human nature.
I think there is time for humans to prove otherwise, but maybe not so much as humans would want.