• @[email protected]
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    6118 days ago

    That mascot is a child. Please don’t make porn of fictional children even if you disagree with the politics or religion of that fictional child you’re making porn out of. Child porn is a bad thing

    • snooggums
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      11418 days ago

      She is really a 2,000 year old dragon child of god so it’s totally ok.

      -some priest

    • @[email protected]
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      5918 days ago

      If she’s drawn as an adult like the pucture used for the pist I don’t think it would be a problem anymore, you can’t really lock down a fictional character’s age it just comes down to features their drawn with and I guess if someone feels the need to go out of thier way to give an age

        • @[email protected]
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          117 days ago

          I used one in my original post I guess I rushed posting on my break and didn’t get someone to proof read it first

      • M137
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        418 days ago

        Why do you hate punctuation and just basic grammar?

        • @[email protected]
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          -518 days ago

          don’t know I just always hated it since elementary school, I want to see grammarly removed from the face of the earth and would pay good money to make sure no one takes their place not even joking about that

      • @[email protected]
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        -1418 days ago

        Doesn’t matter. It is a depiction of a child. The “Oh it’s actually a 10 billion year old dragon, she just looks and acts like she’s 8” is not a credible defense. And don’t pull “that’s not what I said or am implying”, regardless it’s an image of a child no matter how you try spinning it, real or not. CP is CP.

        • @[email protected]
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          918 days ago

          I’m not giving the Chinese myth dragon “defence”. She’s not real. Full stop. It’s okay if you don’t like it

        • Lightor
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          317 days ago

          Is it a child? What age are they? I couldn’t find it anywhere. Looking at the official image it’s hard to say. She could be 7 or 30. The Internet is going to Internet.

          But this “CP is CP” thing is a little odd. I mean without knowing her age you’re just assuming. The C in CP is child, are they a child or are you just upset that you think they kinda look like one? It’s also way weird, she’s not real. Do you get upset about anime dogs being killed? Do you get upset about violence in anime? I mean what if it is some old being in a young body? Isn’t CP wrong because they don’t know better and are helpless victims to the F’d up thing. That’s not the case here. I’m honestly just confused.

          • @[email protected]
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            -317 days ago

            It is a depiction of a child.

            Your implying, that so long as information can’t be validated and the image can’t be verified as a real person it’s ok. Cool, all you need is a filter and CP is fine!? Pictures of hate crimes are cool because it’s just a picture?

            What I find weird is the number of people in Lemmy who are trying to define a grey line when it’s CP and when it’s not. Reddit had a very real problem with CP and starting to think Lemmy very much does.

            • Lightor
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              17 days ago

              Is it? You keep saying it’s a child, I’m trying to stay objective, is it? Pictures of real hate crimes are bad. But plenty of shows and movies depict hate crimes and you don’t seem to be fighting that fight, seems like inconsistent morals.

              Yes yes, I get it, you’re against CP, I am too. My point is this isn’t CP, this isn’t a child. This is a make believe spiritual being that you think looks like a child. Hell in the pic shown she clearly isn’t a child. I mean if you take a kid and draw a picture of what you think they’d look like as an adult is that CP? The pic isn’t a child. I mean, honest question.

    • @[email protected]
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      1118 days ago

      Nobody except pedos will argue that child abuse is bad. AI cartoon porn in my opinion is fine. It’s a victimless crime. Literally nobody gets hurt. There is no studies confirming that someone who watches pedo cartoons will end up doing real life child abuse, in fact some studies show the opposite effect.

      I welcome AI porn. Cartoon or real life looking. Zero real women get taken advantage of and we get to pick whatever kink we want knowing that nobody was hurt in the making of the AI porn.

      • HubertManne
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        1618 days ago

        I agree. Its always a tough stance. Its like ultimately I want nazis to be able to speak freely as long as they don’t actually do the stuff they spout. As far as im concerned when you try to ban stuff not in reality you are in the realm of trying to ban thought.

        • @[email protected]
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          2718 days ago

          I mean, Japan has had csam cartoons for decades. They have a lower CSA rate compared to the USA. Not saying it’s totally related, but it doesn’t seem like if someone has access to cartoon csam they will normalize it and do it in real life.

        • Lightor
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          417 days ago

          Sure, the same way video games normalize stealing cars. Or the same way movies normalize killing people. I mean at some point you gotta stop blaming media.

        • @[email protected]
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          -818 days ago

          So if legalized porn reduces rapes as studies show, how to we figure out if this existing allows for less abuse to kids, or if it spawns long term interest

          • @[email protected]
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            1818 days ago

            Cartoon csam has been legal in Japan for decades. They have a lower CSA per Capita than the USA.

            There are some brain studies that show the area of the brain that is responsible for caring for children is butt up next to the part of the brain that is responsible for sexual pleasures. The study suggests that there might be a misfiring of the synapse between the different sides of the brain that might cause someone to be a pedo. These people don’t experience sexual pleasures without thinking about kids. It’s literally a disability.

            My opinion is that we don’t know if removing AI generated csam would make things worse for real life kids or not. But flat out banning it without proper research would be irresponsible.

            • BlackLaZoR
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              1018 days ago

              But flat out banning it without proper research would be irresponsible.

              I think the whole argument is moot. AI image generation is available to pretty much everyone. It’s impossible to control what what people are doing with it

              • @[email protected]
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                18 days ago

                Maybe if self hosted, but if the AI is hosted by someone else… I imagine it would be as easy as key words being reported/flagged

                • BlackLaZoR
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                  1018 days ago

                  Self hosting is trivial these days. Any modern NVIDIA card and hundreds of models available online.

            • @[email protected]
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              18 days ago

              Thanks for the thoughts on such, the way people were only downvoting originally and not providing any actual explanation to why, had me thinking it was just going to have been dumb to ask.

        • @[email protected]
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          1518 days ago

          If a pedophile sexualizes fake AI children in his basement but is a productive human in society and never acts in real life. Do you think this person deserves to be in jail?

          • @[email protected]
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            -1518 days ago

            A: all models are trained on something

            2, you’re building your own straw man here. You’ve set up an extremely narrow condition under which this particular type of pedophilia is acceptable. Prove to me that that’s the norm, that it’s a typical use scenario, and that people looking at that crap are exclusively looking at loli, and not images meant to look like real people, and there’s a debate to be had there. But if you think any of that is true you’re lying to yourself. Sexualization of others is not going to happen in a vacuum under sterile conditions, it’s going to bleed in to real life.

            • @[email protected]
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              1418 days ago

              Prove to me that removing this will not bleed into real life even more than it is not? You can’t either.

              What I can prove is that Japan has csam cartoons for decades and they have less CSA per Capita than the USA. Is it possible that the Japanese know something we don’t? Who knows.

              Can you prove to me that the AI trained models were done with real csam materials? If so, not reporting this to the FBI seems irresponsible.

            • @[email protected]
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              217 days ago

              Generative models does not work like that, if it were so, how do you explain that I can generate a picture of a purple six legged cat throwing lasers from the eyes in space?

              In a very very very simplified way, the models are trained that from noise it de noises it until the image is “restored”. A part of the model learns to remove noise until a drawing of a child is restored, another learns to restore the image of a drawing of a nude woman. Basically you say to the model that from noise it has to restore the drawing of a nude child it combines the two proceses (also it is trained to combine things in a way that makes sense).

        • @[email protected]
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          718 days ago

          That’s like saying the only people who bake wedding cakes are bakers…

          I mean yeah. But what of it? Or are you already implying a level of abuse and connotation to the mental disorder?

          • @[email protected]
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            -618 days ago

            The act of baking does indeed make you a baker. Definitionally.

            Just because you aren’t going pro doesn’t mean you aren’t making a cake.

            • Lightor
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              17 days ago

              Me making box mix cake that tastes like ass doesn’t make me a baker. That’s silly.

        • @[email protected]
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          218 days ago

          Sure but like I asked above, if porn reduces rapes, how do we know that this (gross) doesn’t reduce children being sexually assaulted. I can’t think of a single safe way it could be tested or monitored to find the better long term evil

      • @[email protected]
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        18 days ago

        The “kink” you are picking is drawn child porn. I don’t care if nobody was directly hurt by your consumption of drawn child porn you are consuming child porn. You are a pedophile. Somebody attracted to children sexually.

        I don’t care if studies showing pedophiles who watch drawn child porn aren’t likely to offend. They are pedophiles. I know it’s a wild thing to state but I don’t like pedophiles. The debate on legality due to harm reduction is another thing all-together but at no point did I bring that up. I only asked that we not support or make AI porn of fictional children.

        Your support of a subset of child porn, particularly AI and drawn is noted though. Thank you for stating as much.

        • They are pedophiles. I know it’s a wild thing to state but I don’t like pedophiles.

          This makes sense and all, but a pedophile who hasn’t harmed a child hasn’t caused any harm. These people have a disorder that should be treated, but this isn’t always easy. If this can give them some outlet that prevents any actual harm being done to children, then that can easily be argued to be a net positive.

          I prefer these people jack off to AI porn over real child porn or worse, them turning to actual sexual abuse of children. What’s wrong with preventing child abuse?

          • @[email protected]
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            18 days ago

            I would agree if we see some meta-analysis suggesting this but the evidence is small towards the effect. The studies you state in other comments are inconclusive, are not the majority, and only show mild effects. This is not scientific fact yet and all evidence shows a mild effect at best.

            Even if it did though they are still a pedophile. They are masturbating to child porn. We should not accept that as a positive thing and we should not support people who make child porn. These are the people who need to seek help most. If part of that help is jacking it to drawn child porn so be it but be it so under the care of a professional.

            The fact that one doesn’t offend only stops one from being a monster. A child molester, or child rapist. A pedophile is still immoral.

            My issue is that child porn is inherently wrong. It is a fundamental negative whether drawn or generated. Some things are not about material harm they are about base morality. Sexualizing children is a fundamental wrong.

            If the only thing stopping you from raping, molesting, or otherwise harming a child is drawn child porn you are not a good person. That is terrifying, and disgusting.

            Lastly, our brains are neuroplastic. Anyone can develop a fetish through constant exposure to something in a positive sexual setting. Something may disgust you, say poop, but if you jack off to the thought long enough you will develop a fetish. This, unlike the claim that drawn child porn is helpful, is well known. Harm to children or not this creates more pedophiles. People who think of children in a sexual manner

            • @[email protected]
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              1318 days ago

              No sane person is denying what you’re saying. With a Children of my own, I want to do anything and everything possible to protect them.

              That said, there are research that people who consume cartoon csam that haven’t done real life abuse. They have a problem. Taking away something that doesn’t hurt anyone might not improve our protection of our children, but make things worse.

        • @[email protected]
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          1218 days ago

          If a pedophile sexualizes fake AI children in his basement but is a productive human in society and never acts in real life. Do you think this person deserves to be in jail?

    • Kairos
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      18 days ago

      This is not child porn.

      Please define child porn.

      Edit: becauae y’all seem to wanna put words in my mouth: I also think that sexualized cartoons of children is bad. I never said otherwise. I’m referring to the US federal legal definition.

      • @[email protected]
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        118 days ago

        The feds define it as:

        Any visual depiction of sexually explicit conduct involving a person less than 18 years old

        Visual depiction includes cartoons.

        Don’t argue with me, call the feds and debate it with them. Maybe give them your hard drive, too. That’s probably better for everyone.

        • circuscritic
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          18 days ago

          Thanks for calling the FBI, how may I direct your call?

          I like to discuss what actually constitutes child pornography and how to rectify the laws that are causing my beautiful sensual artwork to be unfairly maligned on the internet.

          I couldn’t agree more. What’s your home address, we’d love to hear your complaint in person

            • @[email protected]
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              1018 days ago

              Turns out with laws definitions can be pretty important. Here it’s the whole difference between if your quoted definition fits the situation or not.

        • Kairos
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          18 days ago

          No it absolutely does fucking not include cartoons. (Edit: at least in the US)

          And yes, even if it’s of a real person/child. Apparently they’re working on changing that.

          • @[email protected]
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            18 days ago

            The fuck…you pedo shits are some brazen fuckers aren’t you.

            Edit: lots of neckbeard ass pedos apparently in this thread. CP is fucking CP even if it’s AI or fucking Anime you sick fucks

            • Kairos
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              18 days ago

              What indicated that I would be a pedo?

              And kind reminder, child sexual abuser != pedophile. (And the other way around)

              • @[email protected]
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                -1018 days ago

                Might be the fact that you’re defending this shit and acting like it’s completely ok.

                • @[email protected]
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                  18 days ago

                  Are they defending it? Seems more like they’re saying that the US legal system doesn’t consider it to meet their classification of child pornography, as opposed to saying that it’s okay.

                  It would be like saying the UK criminal justice system only considers penile penetration to be rape, with other forms being folded under sexual assault. That doesn’t mean that they’re defending rape, and saying it’s just sexual assault.

                  • @[email protected]
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                    -418 days ago

                    https://lemmy.world/comment/13282924

                    That’s you defending it. CP is not magically going to increase because it gets banned, it’s not fucking smoking for teenagers. It’s literally grown ass men being fucking pedos, who feed into this shit. It’s like giving a taste of some drugs to an addict. You think they’re not going to go further into their addiction?

            • Kairos
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              18 days ago

              Okay, dickhead. Do you treat everyone who talks about child abuse laws as a predator?

              Let me tell you EXACTLY what will happen if the federal government treats cartoon pornofraphy the same as real CSAM: the amount of CSAM being viewed goes up. Way up.

              The reason why real child sexual abuse is heavily penalized and cartoon stuff isn’t is because real child sexual abuse is worse. Would you rather have people looking at cartoons or real children?

              On top of that, shows like Euphoria,/and others would become just as illegal as real child pornography. After all, the characters depicted are minors, but the actors are adults. Would you be okay with someone watching Euphoria being punished the same as somene looking at real child sexual abuse?

              “Oh but I would rather people not veiw anything of sexualized children, real or not-” well I hate to break it to you: its going to happen anyway. The point of criminal punishment is harm reduction. And punishing looking at a cartoon and child pornography the same is only going to increase viewership of real child pornography.

              And I’m not even defending it [cartoons] but I definitely would like for real child sexual abuse to decrease, so I’m okay with (edit: CARTOONS) existing. YOU are reading into my comment.

              • @[email protected]
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                -918 days ago

                Kairos

                Holy shit. Before you “ackchually” maybe you should look up this shit? Images or video of a minor that depict an act of sex abuse against an identifiable minor CAN include drawings. There have been some cases where people have been convicted of only that (in other cases the person usually had “real” CSAM so it’s hard to determine what the outcome would have been). Here’s a highlighted excerpt from a case in the 5th circuit from a great thread literally about this:

                https://bsky.app/profile/jackscellphone.bsky.social/post/3ksissuq2ft2w

                And, yes, before you push your glasses up your nose and “buh buh buh”, it does say the charge is obscenity. But, again, I encourage you to read the full thread linked below to understand why that doesn’t fucking matter at all.

                The thread this is by someone that has extensive experience in trust and safety in social media. This very long thread has a lot of information you should read before you “okay, dickhead” and then slippery slope something that already happened:

                https://bsky.app/profile/rahaeli.bsky.social/post/3kuuk2nlkrk2a

      • @[email protected]
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        18 days ago

        I shouldn’t need to define child porn but here’s a definition:
        Sexually gratifying content involving the sexualization of children.

        This fictional child is a child. Porn of that child is child porn. Drawn, generated, or any other way this is child porn.

        I’ve heard the “it’s just pixels” argument before and can’t accept that. If we can recognize that the pixels are pornographic, that they represent the character lucy, and that lucy is a child we can agree that this is porn of a child. Child porn.

        How does this not match the term “child porn”.

        It is drawn porn of a child

        • @[email protected]
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          2018 days ago

          So if a person draws a stick figure and jerks off to it thinking it’s a child stick figure.

          Who gets to define how old a cartoon is?

          Who cares what someone jerks off to. Does it hurt anyone in any way?

          • @[email protected]
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            18 days ago

            Holy shit man what the fuck are you on about.

            If somebody jacks off to the thought of a child they are a pedophile. Yes.

            The cartoon has a childs proportions. It has a childs body. The creator has defined it as a child. You are unironically doing the “it’s a thousand year old dragon” shit.

            You are a danger to the kids you claim to have. Do you jack off to the thought of their naked bodies? Do you think that would be ok to do? If you do nothing to harm them directly by your own reasoning it would be ok right?

            No. That is abhorent. Please get professional help

            • @[email protected]
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              1718 days ago

              No I don’t jerk off to kids. I am approaching this mental health issue with an open mind and not emotionally like some people here.

              As someone who suffers from a different mental issue, unrelated to pedos, you have to understand that people with a disability don’t want to do some of the things they are doing.

              Pedos know they have a mental illness. They don’t want to do the things they are doing. If watching and consuming AI cartoon csam keeps them from acting out their urges in real life then yes please do that. Seek help at the same time.

              I can’t guarantee that keeping AI cartoon csam will reduce CSA. But you can’t guarantee removing it can either. So let’s all have an adult conversation here.