• IninewCrow
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    25214 days ago

    Who’s the cheap one in this equation?

    … the customer who is paying the owner of the restaurant for the food AND is obligated by social convention to pay extra to the waiter who is underpaid.

    or

    … the restaurant owner who doesn’t mind living in a world where we have normalized underpaying restaurant workers to the point where we pass down that responsibility to the customer who is already paying for the food.

    Pay your workers a proper wage and get rid of the idea of tipping.

    • @[email protected]
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      7814 days ago

      Don’t like tipping? Protest the policies by not going to restaurants, dont shove it on the workers who are stuck in the system.

      The owner is 100% happy you came to pay him and not the waiter he didnt wanna pay anyway.

        • idunnololz
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          14 days ago

          Yeah this protest only works if there are also another set of restaurants that specifically tell you not to tip that you can give business to. I have been to some but they are very rare where I live.

        • @[email protected]
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          14 days ago

          At this point youre just being disingenuous. There’s a thousand comments in this thread answering that question, and explaining why stiffing the workers doesn’t really affect the owners, or incentivise them to change anything.

          • Robust Mirror
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            13 days ago

            If no one is going there and they don’t know why, and they’re losing money because they’re not getting enough business, they’re not going to decide the solution is to start paying their waiters more. That will just cause them to close down sooner.

            Also, just as they don’t know why people stopped going there unless every single one calls them and makes it clear it’s due to tipping/wages, the people protesting aren’t going to know even if they do start paying the waiters more.

            Almost every waiter I’ve ever spoken to also prefers tipping because they make more than if they were being paid more, because the business isn’t going to pay them as high as they were making in tips (on average).

            The only way they even could, is if they raised the price of everything by 25%. As much as people say they’d be fine with that, such high prices would drive some number of people away. There’s also the issue that if the business owner realised people would pay that much higher, they’d inevitably keep some for themselves and only somewhat increase server wages.

            This isn’t to say that I think avoiding tipping is the way to fix it either, just that I don’t think it’s as clear cut as just avoiding the business.

            • @[email protected]
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              113 days ago

              Yeah lets ignore all of history and just invent stuff about “free markets”. All this and you haven’t addressed why we bother with minimum wage at all if this was true. Or why we bother with OSHA if construction workers would just pressure companies to change.

              You know when the ad for your phone bill says “no hidden fees” ? They know that’s what people cared about, and they changed it. Now it’s just commonplace even when it’s not regulated. Shoving this on the worker makes no sense, the employer has the leverage

              • Robust Mirror
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                013 days ago

                Those are laws. If you want a law that bans tipping and assures a higher wage for waiters then sure, that’s fine, but boycotting businesses won’t get those laws made.

                • @[email protected]
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                  13 days ago

                  Cmon dude. All these people are saying we don’t need these laws because waiters can just quit to pressure businesses to pay them well. So why do these laws even exist? You didnt even respond to the last post. I wont hold my breath.

                  Businesses that don’t have convoluted pay schemes that involve tips will die, and businesses that advertise tipping isn’t a thing will thrive, like has happened many times in the past.

                  You know what doesn’t change anything? Forcing the people stuck in the system to get more stuck in the system…

      • @[email protected]
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        1314 days ago

        Thats one way of looking at it… but if everyone would stop tipping, they would be forced to pay them a living wage or go out of business when all the staff quit. Its actually in the consumers power to effect that change, but only on a mass scale. Unfortunately its an awkward social coercion tactic at play now, which just continues to perpetuate the problem pitting us against each other just as capitalism intends to.

        • @[email protected]
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          113 days ago

          If tips are bad, the worker quits. If sales are bad, the worker is fired and might collect unemployment benefits.

        • @[email protected]
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          13 days ago

          So we don’t need OSHA? We can just let construction workers quit if the contractors make them do dangerous stuff?

          Youre a bit oblivious to your privilege. People can’t just quit or yknow, they starve.

      • @[email protected]
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        013 days ago

        Honestly, in these debates more often than not I find that the waiters don’t want tipping culture changed either. A lot (not all, I understand) of waiters make bank on tips and then don’t accurately report them as income so it’s not even taxed correctly. They don’t want that to change.

      • @[email protected]
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        -514 days ago

        Fuck that, there’s federal mandated minimum wage if waiters don’t make enough through tips. You’re a misinformation spreading lunatic. Probably right wing too.

    • @[email protected]
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      5214 days ago

      Tipping is fine, but as in “keep the change”, not “we need to change this tipping culture”

    • @[email protected]
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      414 days ago

      I have no problem with tipping, I have a problem with expected tipping.

      Waiters should be paid properly and tips should not be expected or even mentioned. If I get exceptional service, I may want to leave a tip. There should be an optional tip section when paying the bill, but no separate screen or list of expected tips (or even percentage calculations) anywhere at all.

    • @[email protected]
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      114 days ago

      And who is hurt by not tipping

      The staff member who is likely significantly impoverished…

      OR

      The business owner who got the $12 he’s charging you for tendies?

      The business owner doesn’t give two shits if you tip, they get paid either way and $7.25 an hour per employee is pocket change to them.

    • @[email protected]
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      -414 days ago

      Here’s the equation. Restaurants keep food costs low by paying servers next to nothing. If they paid them what they deserve, the cost of your meal would increase.

      So by not tipping, you are benefiting from the low cost of food while screwing over the person that has no control over the situation. YTA

      If you don’t want to tip, don’t go to a restaurant that has servers.

      Now, other places that actually pay a living wage and also have a tip button (ie concession stands at a sporting event) can get fucked.

      • @[email protected]
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        1614 days ago

        Except that I’m fine if the cost of my meal increases if they paid their servers what they deserve.

        • @[email protected]
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          614 days ago

          Same here. I’m just saying don’t protest tipping by not tipping. You’re screwing the wrong person.

        • @[email protected]
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          413 days ago

          Honestly if you think about it. The cost of your meal going up and the cost of tipping are not different in their end result for the consumer.

          The employee still gets the short end because people won’t always tip. Or even show up.

          The owner gets the long (?) end because they don’t have to pay their workers a higher wage (very bad if it’s a slow day) and the customers who otherwise wouldn’t have eaten there if the prices were high will still eat there and not tip.

          So it really doesn’t effect the consumer at all but it does effect the employee quite a bit for sure.

      • @[email protected]
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        1014 days ago

        Are you suggesting that food prices will go up by more than the cost of the tip tacked on?

        Because if not it’s really just more honest pricing, and the same (or reduced) impact on customers, but without having to do math or having the option of being a leech.

        • @[email protected]
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          014 days ago

          If tipping ended and restaurants paid their servers, food prices would go up. That is undeniable.

          You are eating at a discount with the expectation that you will pay the owner’s employee for them. Yes, it is unfair and sucks but the one making out like a bandit here is the owner.

          So, not tipping is your way of benefiting personally on a discounted meal AND STILL giving the owner money. And the only one you have punished in your equation is a server (the leech???) who is generally living off that tip day to day.

          So if you want to make an impact, quit going to restaurants that have tipping as an expectation! That’s it! Otherwise you are just encouraging the owner to keep the status quo!

          • @[email protected]
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            14 days ago

            It’s not a discount if you are expected to pay more to add a tip.

            But dude, quit changing the subject, I’m not talking about people not tipping within the current system, never have been, and neither was the person you originally replied to. I’ve worked tipped positions, so I very much understand how they work.

            So again, are you suggesting that if we do away with tipping, costs of food would increase by MORE than the present amount of a tip that gets tacked on? Because that’s the only way prices for the end consumer actually meaningfully raise. Most likely they will actually go down overall. Because again you have to pay the tip too.

            You are really bad at reading comprehension btw. That, or you are a piss-poor troll and intentionally misrepresenting literally everything… the option to be a leech is the customer, who in the present system can skip the tip. Like a leech.

            Also, there aren’t any restaurants around me that scrapped tipping, not a single fucking one within at least an hour of where I live, so your suggestion is impossible for me and very privileged.

      • @[email protected]
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        014 days ago

        So by not tipping, you are benefiting from the low cost of food while screwing over the person that has no control over the situation. YTA

        Customers aren’t the assholes for the failures of the restaurant industry, just as customers aren’t the assholes for the refusal of the federal government to ensure restaurant workers are paid a living wage.

        Customers who don’t tip are not the enemy.

    • @[email protected]
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      -1714 days ago

      The owner is evil, but anyone who doesn’t tip a waiter that earns too little to be able to afford to live is an asshole.