I just want to talk at the fellas here. Man to man.
If you do this shit, the women will leave and not come back. I know the incels are going to think that’s typical female behavior, and I’m here to say, no, it’s not. It’s typical for someone, of any gender, to want to exit a situation where they feel vulnerable, and that’s what is happening.
Think of it like this: you end up in prison, and your naked, alone, you have no allies or friends, while taking a shower with about 100 other dudes, and Bubba comes over with a grin saying “you’re awful pretty”. How would you feel? I’m guessing you would want to nope the hell out of there and never take a shower with Bubba in the room, ever again. And that’s natural. You were in danger, you want to avoid that danger. While the circumstances might be different for the women you’re interacting with, that raw emotion, the exact same one you would have felt with Bubba talking about how pretty you are, the feeling that gave you, it’s exactly the same.
Now think, after Bubba made such a statement, what could Bubba do to win your trust to shower next to them again at all? Probably not much. Same deal fellas. There’s little to nothing you can do or say to make them feel comfortable being around you when you’ve done something that inspires that unsafe feeling of danger.
Now, how could Bubba avoid the situation of you feeling like you’re in danger and wanting to get out of there. A reassurance? Like Bubba instead saying “don’t worry, I’ll protect you”… You’re going to wonder “from what?” Because until Bubba spoke up, you had no feeling of danger. How does that make you feel? Well, I would feel like there’s danger that Bubba knows about that I don’t, so now I’m on edge, looking for what Bubba is talking about, and all of a sudden, I’m having the same feeling of danger, just this time from an unknown assailant. That’s not good either. I’d still want to gtfo and not go back. Worse now since I don’t know what the danger actually is. Not only would I not want to shower with Bubba nearby like in the previous scenario, but now I don’t want to be left alone with anyone.
Same deal fellas. By trying to reassure the lady, you imply that there’s danger indirectly; she gets creeped out and leaves to not come back.
So, what’s the right thing to do here?
It’s easier than you think. Treat them like you would any of your male friends. Treat them like a person. You don’t need to reassure your male friends that you’ll protect them, nor do you feel the need to defend them when their “honor” is challenged. Let them handle it, but have their back if they need you… and only if they need you.
Be a friend first, and if something happens that makes your relationship with that person, more than just friends, so much the better. Don’t expect it, women aren’t slot machines, where you put in enough tokens of niceness and eventually you win the sex jackpot. It doesn’t work that way. It never has, and it never will. You can’t force someone to like you, and if you try, you’ll either take any attraction that they might have had for you, and destroy it, and/or simply cause them to feel unsafe and creeped out, and they’ll find a way to exit and never return.
People, regardless of gender, just want to do things they enjoy. If you also enjoy those things, then engage in the enjoyment of those things with the other people who enjoy them. Don’t make it about gender. If, beyond that, you both like eachother, you’ll find a way to spend more time together and that’s when things can grow to more than just being friendly, as long as you’re both agreeable to it.
If you continually obsess over the fact that their anatomy is different, you’ll end up filling whatever negative ideas you have about the other gender, and push yourself so deep into a hole of confirmation bias that you may never recover. Just be people. Treat others the same, as people.
I believe in you. You can do better. Always improving.
You will fall, you will be rejected, you will have set backs. And that’s all normal. It’s a part of learning. You got this.
Lemmy is the best social media platform out there, holy shit
Good, that you finally realize. :p
Imma be real with you. I ain’t reading all that.
You’d probably like TikTok.
I can summarize: It’s an appeal to reason written from the perspective of a nice, caring, socially aware man called Bubba, who doesn’t understand why women run from him when he approaches them in the shower.
Tldr?
Tldr?
Don’t be a dickhead.
Treat women as if they were just people
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Don’t ask girls out. The end.
for you, probably a good life rule.
This is some nice advice but
Treat them like you would any of your male friends.
Don’t do this. Understand that you wouldn’t do this with any random guy either. As with any new acquaintances everyone is cautious in the beginning and women more so. Whether you find the new girl appealing or not all you have to do is cautiously get to know her through your interactions with her, like any other relations you may build with initial strangers and get used to their presence and predilections.
You’re telling me not to rip a wicked funny fart and sock her hard in the shoulder when she’s too much of a panty waist to laugh? Pfsh.
Some guys have no idea how to talk to chicks.
SHHH!! Don’t say that shit out loud you’re gonna raise the competition.
Thank you for this. You are eloquently and (hopefully) non-threateningly (is that even a word?) stating a message that really, really needs to be said again and again until everyone friggin’ gets it.
IMO, A nontrivial amount of blame goes to the fathers of such people.
This shouldn’t imply that those who need to hear this are exempt from blame; they should have simply been educated by their parents on simple social etiquette…
Of course, I’m also certain that a nontrivial number of those father’s actively encouraged such misbehavior.
Trust is at its most basic a finite resource. Whenever a person messes up they recover by giving some of that trust away. Eventually that trust runs out. In rare cases you can regain some of it. However, in the vast majority of situations you’ll never get back all that trust lost.
So spend wisely.
Or rather don’t spend at all.
Think of it like this: you end up in prison, and your naked, alone, you have no allies or friends, while taking a shower with about 100 other dudes, and Bubba comes over with a grin saying “you’re awful pretty”. How would you feel?
Erect?
I’m imagining one of those problem-guys saying specifically this during a game.
TIL - asking someone on a date is the equivalent of prison rape.
If this is what you gleaned from reading all of that then yes, YOU asking someone on a date may be the equivalent of prison rape.
It’s really unfortunate that the people that need to read that top comment most are incapable of processing it
Bubba here.
I’m a nice guy: I give some small, cute dude a compliment and he acts like a total bitch about it? I’m the “creep” because I jokingly asked him if he wants to come back to my cell? Oh, my comments make him uncomfortable? Give me a fuckin’ break.
Maybe if he doesn’t want guys checking him out he should stop acting and dressing like such a slut.
It’s the implication
So…asking someone on a date implies you’re going to prison rape them.
Found the “Bubba” in this scenario…
Incel detected, opinion rejected
Thanks Chat GPT-4, life is so much better since you came along!
This text is not from generative AI like GPT-4.
How do I know?
- Its original, e.g. the part around bubba. And with original I do not mean the exact phrase but the idea of the simile.
- Is is not generic. A genAI always resorts to getting very generic the longer the text it is forced to generate is.
- I does not follow a usual structure. genAI resorts to following a language teachers paradigm. Introduction, main part, conclusion.
and other minor signs.
This is just a fellow human giving solid advice.
Thank you GPT-4.5, you truly are an update.
you mean treating women like humans, and letting it precede what your peepee wants? how preposterous.
Meanwhile I just try to have normal conversation but they go for avoidance manuever right away.
It can often be how you go about it. If you just dive in and start talking to them, even if well intentioned and you literally do just want to talk to someone new about whatever, because of all those past experiences of guys only trying to do that to get with them, they’ll see you as probably just another one of those creepos.
It’s a dance, and it’s an annoying one at times for sure, and it takes practice. If you can recall the last time you tried to strike up a conversation, or next time it happens, afterwards, really stop and think about it from the other person’s perspective. If you know a woman you trust, try asking her to go over the whole interaction with you.
In college I was a major incel neckbeard loser and truly was the epitome of the green text above. I’m not proud of it. I took a chance and asked a few women I knew why I kept being single and lonely and if they could advise. They did exactly that for me. Took me through some of my interactions, explained where I went wrong, and helped me reframe my thoughts. I now am pretty much always able to strike up a conversation wherever I’m at.
TL:DR - find someone you trust to walk you through the why. You got this
I see, maybe that was it, even tho I did not have intention to get accustomed to. Btw idk why I am downvoted that much, do people think I am lying? Huh. I thought it was possible to be interested in becoming friends, even tho it is towards women…
Also, people do not know of those who avoid just based on looks?
Sure there’s people out there who will avoid you based on looks but usually though it’s something else. If you’re confident, kind, and properly socializing, then looks often don’t matter.
The thing about looks that matter is how you present yourself. Keep up the hygiene, keep your clothes cleaned, and just present your best self as a person.
I say this as a fat dude who hasn’t bought new clothes in 10+ years and even then bought what I liked not what was in style. I still do just fine. For us men, our look is in our attitude.
You seem like you really want to find the answer to getting out there but you’re getting in your own head. Just let it slide, go have fun, don’t focus on other people, don’t worry about past slip ups once you’ve learned from them, maybe find a mentor. You do that, and the rest will happen. It just takes time and patience.
This is why all of my gaming groups just start with an orgy and get that out of the way right off the bat. Everyone gets everything. Sex communism solves all. (Major /s if not obvious)
How do I sign up comrade?
“willing and able”
To monitor the emergency exit door of the orgy room.
Wait, isn’t this what session 0 is for? Getting all the tension out and working through your issues?
Can I wear full plate to the orgy?
It is in fact required
Always wear protection
That’s why I only have sex surrounded by landmines. And I put one up my ass because I’m not GAY DONT TOUCH MY ASSHOLE
Only the massively oversized codpiece is required, but you’ve got to attach it to something
That’s classism!
Found the Greek!
Sex communism solves all.
Controlling the means of reproduction!
I really wish this didn’t have a giant kernel of truth to it. I’ve had to leave so many tables because such a large percentage of people insist on making it weird, that I largely have given up.
On more than one occasion, there has been a dude that intentionally played a lesbian character upon learning that I would be playing and not so subtly directed the million unnecessary sexual advances at me in an indirect manner.
Apart from that general incel style bullshit, there seems to always be a fucking white knight nice guy that refuses to see past my rl gender and acknowledge that I am playing something like a male half orc stereotypical barbarian.
D&D has been a huge passion of mine since the 2e days, and I really understand that it draws in people that tend to be socially inexperienced and/or impeded in some way (hell, I’m one of them), but at this point I am trying to play with 40+ year-old men that are fine in social situations outside of the game, but once the session starts they immediately get creepy.
I know this is long and ranting, but I think there are a lot of people that need to hear it. Even if the overall tone of the game is light-hearted and silly, you still need to be a fucking adult when interacting with other adults.
I know when you are pretending to look at your phone as an excuse to stare at my tits. Stop.
I would recommend learning how to play roll20 (free to play virtual table top) and finding a westmarches Discord server. I moved to an area where I have zero friends and got into playing dnd that way. It’s pretty fun, flexible scheduling, out of game roleplaying whenever. I’m a 38 y/o cis male so I can’t say there will be no issues, cus I never really experienced them at all. I’d totally imagine you’d have a different, and hopefully better, experience than irl games. Feel free to DM if you’d like more info.
I second this. There are some really great Discord communities to play on that I’m part of. Generally, it’s much easier to keep the creeps out by just banning them. It doesn’t have to be a Westmarches server, but any TTRPG server with an actual community that runs game on the server itself, instead of just another LFG fishing pond.
I know when you are pretending to look at your phone as an excuse to stare at my tits. Stop.
While this may be true, I brought a laptop on a game yesterday and I’m not sure the girl on the opposite side of the table didn’t think something like that when my eyes were on top of the screen. Which was a lot of times, because naturally all the people are above the screen and only the keyboard and the table are below the screen.
So - please consider the fact that if there’s a direct line of sight to your tits, and someone has to look in that general direction, they may occasionally from time to time look there. And also that due to, eh, basic uncontrollable instincts they may do that unconsciously a bit more than they need. Like looking at a bunch of pencils and noticing the red ones more than the grey ones.
Also when I talk to girls about my hobbies, they very often apparently perceive this as some nonsense to get romantic. Usually that means that they gradually ignore me more and more and refuse to believe that it’s more complex. Though kinda recently (and long ago before that which led to a trauma, but eh) it was me who thought that they are fine with talking about hobbies, while being more romantic was expected, eventually led to being ignored too.
At least in the adult world, I think most women can differentiate looking around the room/staring into space and staring at their tits.
I assure you, they’re the experts. 🤣
I also included staring at their tits unconsciously, when not thinking where they are staring, or unintentionally. All more probable due to instincts.
…people secretly stare like that? What? Tbh, it is unfair that people can get away with that yet I cannot ever have social interactions by me being autistic.
… How the hell do you pretend to look at your phone but also look at tits… I need to know for… Reasons lol.
camera? also, no.
No way people actually do that
Yeah that’s why I’m wondering. Do they point their camera at her tits and look at them through the phone and pretend to type or something? Wouldn’t everyone else see the boobs on the camera?
Why not just stare off into space? I already hate looking people in the face so looking at their chest is like second nature to me. Where is anyone else going to look when everyone is ideally facing each other around a DnD table. Up?
I’d be bored of seeing Diana of Ephesus’ tits after the third session even if she came in without a shirt lol.
Find a group of mostly older/married people. It might not solve the problem, but it’ll delay it enough that you can get a solid playtest of your latest build before things go to shit.
When I was young, the more females that joined, the less it happened. DND, MTG, whatever.
females
They are called girls, you know.
Isn’t “women” preferable over both terms? Pretty sure if I used the term “girls” around most women I know they’d find it offensive. But most women I know are between 25 and 50 years old.
most women I know are between 25 and 50 years old
Oh, so you only hang out with FEMALES AFTER THEYVE HIT THE WALL AND ARE NO LONGWR VALUABLE AND THEY PROBABLY ARE MANIPULATING YOU WITH THEIR VAGINAS EVEN THOUGH THEIR VAGINAS ARE POINTLESS AFTER 20
(I literally felt gross typing that. Even though the people who genuinely think that way would probably say, like 17, not 20. Yuck.)
17 is ok if you’re into older girls I guess. /s and also yuck
It’s crazy how wrong it feels typing that, right?
Possibly. They didn’t say how young they were, so I assumed teens, not 30s.
I’d say “women” in a professional setting, but among friends I don’t see it as an offensive thing. It’s just an informal or casual thing. I’m a guy, and the group of women often includes my wife. But it’s said in a friendly tone.
I think singular vs plural matters too. I would say “good night girls” to a couple of friends leaving, but not “good night girl” to one friend leaving.
If you say “boys and girls” that’s ok imo, but saying “men and girls” is probably condescending again
I agree with that amendment. It’s about context just as much as tone and intent.
I always wondered why some nerds (affectionate) use the terms males/females. Maybe they’re copying some science fiction book they read?
Up until like 7 years ago, the word lacked major misogynistic connotation. It used to be fairly common in certain subsects, including nerds, and it all but died in them. I wonder when “female” will become kosher again. This century is unlikely, given the Tate taint. The evolution of language is fascinating.
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My friend, you’re 44 and haven’t learned the art of not giving a fuck what people think of you? Wear that sick trench coat. Worst case scenario, someone laughs at you, and you brighten their day a bit.
Upvoted and I’m technically in agreement with you, but at the end of the day most of us humans are social creatures and how we fit in is, on some level at least, important to us.
I will say though if dressing like a neckbeard is fundamental to who someone is, they should absolutely go for it. But for me, who thinks fedoras (sans modern context) do indeed look cool, that’s not enough to overcome the stigma. It’s all about finding our personal balances, I guess.
.
I hope you just go and enjoy life how you want. Fuck other people. Wear a fedora and swing Satan’s pretending it’s a lightsaber.
We die at the end of our lives, not the people who judge us. Be free.
Yeah I just gave up on that. I’d rather be an unpopular me than a popular someone else. The world should be different and my friends all feel the same way.
Whoa. Just be yourself. It’s ok.
fedoras used to be hella cool. trenches, katanas, all that shit.
I dunno if this was ever true, but I think you’ll find more success the more you lean in, because the more you lean in, the harder it is to take you seriously. pair your trench coat with cargo shorts. wear a flea market xxl silk anime shirt with goku on it, unbuttoned, behind that, you gotta wear a mario or zelda shirt or something. a thinkgeek style of shirt. wear some crocs with the jibbits in em. maybe wear a cool casio watch, a silver one. get a fanny pack, put this in the belt loop of your trench coat. See if you can get a katana around there too. get some coke bottle glasses, some morpheus glasses that just sit on the bridge of your nose too. get some ankle high socks, get a couple cool bracelets, if you’re balding, shave the top, go for a horseshoe shape, grow out your hair, and put it in a ponytail. get your glasses to have a strap.
do all that, and then you’ll wrap back around to being cool, and stylin’. you’ll be hip with the youths.
I blame the ferengi
But they’ve been around for way longer than seven years no?
I think we just realized how overly clinical and dehumanizing it is and it just became an easy tell that that person probably, whether they realize it or not, doesn’t really see women as equally human to men, like women are only the sex characteristics that make them biologically female.
To be clear, im referring to the phenomenon where someone, despite frequently using the word ‘men’, is seemingly only able to refer to women as ‘females’. You almost never see ‘males’ used in that standalone way outside of clinical contexts. So yeah, blame those people for ruining it, not the rest of us for wising up to it.
Sometimes it’s just a non-native speaker thing
I use it to distinguish sex and gender. Only some females have to deal with periods and pregnancy, but all women have to deal with social mysogeny. In this context I would use women because it’s a gender issue not a sex issue.
I think it might also be an age thing, if you’re in high school/late teenager and talking about your female peers it’s a neutral sounding term for when “girls” is too casual and “women” makes them seem too old.
Your best bet is to try and find groups with better ratios of guys to gals. These groups tend to self regulate and give the creeps the boot.
People play fantasy games to live out their fantasies. And for some sad people, their fantasy is to touch women because they act so repulsively no one wants to risk getting close to them.
Just be fat, it worked for me.
Are you serious? It doesn’t work that way where I am.
Be fatter/s
Or move out of Alabama
Thats like saying stop being related to your boyfriend kek
Beef Adders are the most dangerous and delicious snakes
Yup, and no matter how the DM handles it, it’s still a pain in the ass.
My table? That shit don’t fly, but it’s still going to mean some dude getting butt hurt and needing a firm talking to. Might go years without it happening, but I don’t know a DM that hasn’t run into it it once or twice with new groups or new players.
One of my long term players is a woman. She was a “girl” when she started with the core group, if you count 16 as a girl still.
She’s a great player, and a good friend. The number of times I’ve had to tell guys to fuck off and not come back is absurd. Shouldn’t even be once, though you’d expect teenagers to pull it. No, it was grown ass men. The last one, we were all 40ish in the core group, and the guy that pulled it was older than us. He was an acquaintance from where I used to work, and had always been chill with women. No bullshit, no problems. But he still couldn’t get past the idea that she was there and obligated to give him a shot just because they shared a hobby.
This is why a lot of women keep our nerdy hobbies to ourselves and don’t really talk about them much in public.
People get weird.
My wife plays FPS games and doesn’t even speak because the moment she does, half the dudes feel like they need to show off and get her attention, and the other half get sexually frustrated and laser focus on only her.
In counter strike it seems to manifest pretty quickly as misogyny.
I only play FPS in VR and the male/female interactions are weirdly wholesome. Literally never seen the behaviours that are sadly the norm in flatscreen gaming. I’m still not sure why this is the case, maybe the reporting system is just better, or it’s something to do with feeling more present in VR.
There’s no need to speak in online games anyway. I never use a mic or headset to play games like that, I still just use the chat. Voice chat always off.
Really liked your work in The Baby
It’s spelled Barbie
… and it is art.
Swear you were in the baby too, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k2x1yP2cpE8&t=827s
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I’ll save her.
You should shoot your shot
Already did after seeing that cute picture ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
Tap for spoiler
/s
I like how often people who start white knighting are looked down on by both sides. Something about the disingenuousness of it I guess
It is because to the harasser they are killjoys. To the aggrieved they are robbing them of agency to help themselves. However, fuck the harassers, and sometimes people need help and don’t know how to ask. I would rather be called a white knight than a creep or someone who did nothing and was thus complicit in the harassment. I’m old and grumpy though and if I’m “helping” it is because I’m sick of the bullshit not because I care if people think I’m a good person; I think that intent matters.
killjoys
I thinks it’s more they know they white Knight is doing the same thing they are but with a holier than thou smug attitude.
Hang out with more LGBT people. If I wanna get laid, I can turn on Growlr and have a dude deliver himself to my basement.
… So what you’re saying is you’re choosing the bear?
He is the bear.
This post & username combo has me in a state I can only describe as Terroroused.
Guy chiming in. I use to go to small, monthly lan parties a lot. Every now and then a woman would show up and 4 or 5 of the average 10 total guys would make weird jokes about there being a female present. I don’t think I ever saw the same woman twice.
a female
Men and females
Read it again. This self-proclaimed man uses ‘women’ to describe some people, and also uses ‘females’ for how some other people describe them.
I’m not mocking the commenter.
I’m not sure your point. I used both “woman” and “female” in my comment. I used the term “female” specifically when I did to reinforce the idea that certain people in the group saw the women more as foreign objects than new people.
I don’t hang out with those people and if you asked me if I stepped in to do anything about that weirdness, I wouldn’t have because it would have been a loss cause. I hang out with better groups now a days.
I’m not mocking you. I’m mocking the people you’re talking about.
Wahmen and Femoids.
That’s sad. At our LAN there were two women regularly. One lost interest in PC games and the other now comes with her friend. She’s pretty good at Chivalry. What a bloodthirsty girl…
It’s was weird. Growing up, I took the “girls don’t play video games” attitude as self deprecating machismo. Finding out that, no, this was how many people, including many girls my age, though was… disappointing.
Would have been nice if more of the women in mmorpgs I played growing up were like that. Too many guilds were torn apart intentionally by women who damn well knew what they were doing and knew that at least one of your staff members was easy to twist around their fingers.
Edit: For anyone seething, women are people and they deserve respect like anyone else, but they are also people, and some of them are assholes.
Yeah this is the flipside to OP. Don’t know why you’re getting down voted. Women can be misanthropic trolls just as much as men can.
Never thought I’d sign up for socials again but you’re an angry little misogynistic shit who happens to be so close to the truth.
You’re not being downvoted because you’re wrong. You’re being downvoted because you came into a thread about women’s issues and detracted from it for your own grievances. You say you respect women? Prove it by shutting the fuck up and listening when they speak about their problems without having to make everyone about yourself. Learn from this and maybe you’ll become a more likeable person and you’ll find a woman that wants to get on your dick.
Don’t bother responding. I said everything that needed to be said, you’ll either get it or you won’t.
Women can also be assholes, deal with it. And don’t gatekeep threads like this, it’s annoying and stupid.
This is an online forum. You can’t tell me not to respond or not to discuss something. Doing so isn’t misogynism. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the community this is posted in is not a women’s exclusive space either.
You want to see misogynism? Go hunt down the guys who treat women like objects in the OP. I don’t know what you want from me.
To think you “signed up for socials” just to try to white knight a hypothetical person, fuckin loser you’ve made this entire thread worse with your shitpost.
Now that you’ve signed up, you can now block users and communities. Dont forget to block me!
It’s also about women entering men’s spaces. Some people’s experience is women causing the issue
I was in a guild on a mmorpg that was predominantly women, and there was a squabble between a couple women.
I said, “Settle down, you both have very big penises.” One responded, “Uh, were girls.” I replied, “Then why are you having a dick measuring contest?” It didn’t go over particularly well, but the bickering died down.
Knowing my luck they would both turn on me if I was in that situation.
I do appreciate how there’s more women in online games now though. FFXIV has a lot of women, and it’s great because I don’t have to be that guy anymore and deal with identity politics if someone acts out. There will probably be another woman in the group who is equally annoyed by whatever bad behavior is going on and call it out.
It is nice to blame women for being manipulative and not the men for falling for the manipulation and causing the infighting, right?
/s
Everyone involved is at fault yeah. Don’t know what you want me to say.
So it’s better to victim blame then? Got it.
So… victim blaming?
My advice is to find a more diverse group. Married and LTR folks are typically less likely to engage in this behavior, especially if their partners are there too. Its tough when you’re in your 20s because 20something guys are all trying to throw their 3 pointer despite the odds.
Either that or find an overtly lewd mixed-gender/mixed-sexuality group and embrace it. I played a very racy campaign in Uni that was a lot of fun. Everyone was onboard with what was going on though before it started and we knew it was going to get weird in a fun way. It was a fun way to also explore my own gender/sexuality in a safe no-contact fantasy way.
Some married women tend to assume you (unmarried somewhat attractive woman) want their man.
Man, there is just no winning is there?
It’s people, there is never any winning. You do your best to find chill people and don’t waste your precious limited leisure time with people who make you feel bad.
It’s people, there is never any winning.
This is my new life motto.
You do your best to find chill people
This is my new life motto.
Yeah usually the ones being unfaithful themselves are the most controlling and paranoid.
I’m done with the bars and their drunks, and the apps with the spying, out of school, and don’t date coworkers, the advice given to me every time I complain about the fact that there are no other “third places” to meet women romantically 100% of the time is “get a hobby.” Well, see above. There is no place, women do not want to be talked to anywhere but the bar or apps which ime have been bad places to find long-term companionship.
Can we do something about this? Can we maybe start “bars” where the focus isn’t alcohol but it is socially acceptable to say “hey I think you’re cute wanna go get some damn coffee?”
There is no place, women do not want to be talked to anywhere but the bar or apps which ime have been bad places to find long-term companionship.
Come the fuck on. The rules have been the same from the dawn of time.
#1 Be Attractive
#2 Don’t be unattractive
You’ll hear shit on the internet all the time about how women don’t want to be approached, don’t want to be hit on, don’t want anyone to flirt with them… but it’s all bullshit because the person saying it is an INDIVIDUAL. It’s right for them but it isn’t right for all women. I promise, women date men all the time!
It doesn’t matter that they get all the upvotes in the world from all the white knights and other women who are sick of the attention. That’s fine. Don’t harass women who shut you down and you can freely ignore the loud voices on the internet.
Since forever in western society, Men have to generally try to make the first move - even if it’s just asking a woman out for coffee - and based on the response you either move on or keep trying. It’s literally that simple. It’s also mostly a numbers game… but the be attractive thing is no joke. Don’t be an asshole. Don’t be a slob. Learn how to cook and do chores and keep your place clean… if you don’t have a place, bust your ass until you get to a point where you can get one.
All the tropes where women say they don’t date anyone at xyz is bullshit beyond the individual level. If someone finds you attractive and they want to date you they are going to give positive body language and positive answers to the things that would escalate towards that goal if they really want you. If they don’t, they just don’t want you, try someone else.
If you’re getting angry about women not wanting you and it makes your blood boil and you think you deserve something… you are ignoring rule #1 and rule #2, quit being a fucking asshole.
Finally… why in the fuck you wouldn’t date someone at work is beyond me. People marry someone they met at work all the time.
that’s some great piece of advice in here
Great post tbh its refreshing to see an intelligent thought out response on social media for a change lol
I promise, women date men all the time!
You can’t prove that! Until I see evidence this is all conjecture! Hell for all I know all those supposed women who date those men met them in said bars or apps!
Lol kidding. I know, I have even dated a few myself, buuuut I did indeed meet them all in bars (or school.) I sorta was drinking way too much and spending way too much money though, and unfortunately covid happened, inflation went tits up, I couldn’t bar then because quarantine and I can’t really bar much now because my local grocer has decided all my money is his, besides the whole “drinking like 1 drink instead of 15+” thing, and I’ve kind of become disillusioned with that whole scene. The girl I was dating at the start of quarantine was even worse than me, like “a bottle of vodka a night” bad, and frankly I’d just like maybe something a little different, and even besides her, the four previous I also met at a bar, and they were also not much better off (though the last one was the worst by a mile the rest were just like “me then” not “me now.”)
Don’t be an asshole. Don’t be a slob. Learn how to cook and do chores and keep your place clean… if you don’t have a place, bust your ass until you get to a point where you can get one.
Only when I need to; I’m clean and shower I swear, I’m just a punk, the vest is just well seasoned; own my house (well…the bank does, for now, but whatever).
give positive body language
Oh did I mention I literally have a diagnosed “learning disability” that basically amounts to “this fucking moron misses a lot of social cues?” Lol 'cause that is kinda a thing.
No work because I like my job and don’t wish to cause any possible issues with it. Y’know, like if it doesn’t work out or whatever, I’d just like to avoid the possibility for awkwardness entirely.
I mean I’m not entirely ruling it out, shipping has fairly high turnover, so maybe we’ll hire a single person at some point and we vibe, and maybe she decides not to stick around, and I see if she wants to chill “now that she’s leaving and we can’t see each other here anymore,” but that’s a lot of “ifs” lol. I mean at the moment there’s just flat out no options at my work unless I want to try and cause a divorce lol.
I used to date at work sometimes back in my restaurant days, but that’s just what it is. I have considered picking up a little side waiting gig though just to try and meet someone single, then I can be the one who quits if it gets weird, and pick up some cash for the dates on the way. Working too much OT for that one right now though but I have it in my back pocket.
OH and I’m not angry at women for not wanting to be hit on anywhere, I’m just advocating for the creation (or someone tell me about some if they exist pls) of a place where it is ok. Another poster has stuff like “singles hikes” in their area, that is kinda what I’m looking for. Frankly we just need more “third places” because the old ones are all dead except bars and church, is basically my complaint here.
Though as you say “the complaints are individuals, shoot your shot.” Like they said to Shooter McGavin in Happy Gilmore, I guess I’ll just have to “play it where it lies” even if that is on a giant guy’s foot, or at the grocery store or a hobby like this post.
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That would have line up with “dirty” but go off queen.
I’m a good looking, personable guy, so my experience is certainly biased by that. Also coming from someone from the us.
But I’ve found you can approach women in most places. The thing is to just not be creepy about it, and learn how to pick up on cues that she is not interested or uncomfortable. And once “no” has been established, still treating them the way you had before.
If, like described in the geentext, you’re claiming you own someone, or you’re fighting with friends over it when noone is even dating anyone, the problem is not with approaching the woman.
Frankly, same, with the difference that I’ve been around women both irl and online who complain about it constantly, so since I don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable I stopped. Seems to be around the time the apps came out that it stopped being socially acceptable ime, though I’m not sure that’s the cause.
with the difference that I’ve been around women both irl and online who complain about it constantly,
You mean you’ve been around women who felt comfortable complaining about it around you. Which likely means that they don’t think of you as a creep, and now you think of yourself as one…
The bad apples won’t care they’re going to continue to creep, the men you’re comfortable with get scared off. Please, for everyone’s sake, both genders and everything in-between and laterally, start to actually talk about how the young’uns are supposed to continue the human race because they sure as fuck don’t seem to have an idea. A mere 20 years ago we could sit in mixed company laughing and groaning during an impromptu “everyone’s best and worst pickup line” contest, that levity among friends. Levity is serious business re-learn it.
A mere 20 years ago we could sit in mixed company laughing and groaning during an impromptu “everyone’s best and worst pickup line” contest, that levity among friends. Levity is serious business re-learn it.
You still can. The discourse is because a large chunk of the male population doesn’t understand how to do that without being creeps. Don’t be a creep and women will like being around you
How large is the chunk that doesn’t dare do it because they think their behaviour would be considered creepy, even though they’d do perfectly fine? Because that was the case I was replying to, not the overall situation.
If gals want to keep up the overall “don’t talk to me if I haven’t talked to you first” approach, fine, but then y’all gotta start being more proactive with your own pick up skills. And starting pick up line contests yourselves in suitable company, instead of letting decent guys sit there, coming to believe any muscle they move in your presence to be an offence. Thinking they can’t show themselves they start to hide themselves, now they can’t be read properly any more, their intentions might very well still be pure but because something is hidden well anything could be hidden there, and now you’ve got an actual creep on your hands.
Tbh some of the complaining was about pretty innocuous stuff, like not pushy or anything (well of course I wasn’t there but sometimes the stories just sound like “normal shooting your shot” stuff. And they likely trust me because I haven’t tried asking them out, at least in part. If I did I bet that’d change right quick haha.
I’m with you brother, there’s not one place within 100 miles of me that you can just sit and drink coffee and have a gay old time. There’s about 30 of them.
Ah, but can you profess burgeoning romantic interest in your fellow patrons at those or are we back at the original “no that isn’t appropriate to ask out a woman just trying to enjoy her coffee, either?”
At the 30 coffee shops near me it doesn’t exactly seem encouraged, but if you insist, I’m willing to try. Even makes “can I buy you a coffee” easier since we’re already there assuming it is appropriate.
The only rules are the ones you make playbooiiii
Ehh not buying that. By your logic I can just take what I want. Pretty sure that’s called “crime” as it is against the “rules.”
But I’ll play along: Sure, and I’ve decided that as a rule I’d like to not be considered creepy, and as such am attempting to ask people out in a venue that won’t make women uncomfortable or scared or whatever other negative attributes one pins on those seeking romantic partnerships outside of tinder or the liquor hut.
Sure, I could throw caution to the wind, say fuck it, be scared, think I’m creepy, eventually someone will get coffee with me," and it frankly seems like I’m at this last resort, so I may start, but I will feel skeevy when some girl is obviously like “I’m just trying to enjoy my work/the gym/hobbies/the store/coffee shop/school/park/etc.”
I guess you may be right though at the end of the day, fuck em, a dude gotta eat. Them having negative feelings about it is a them problem I spose.
I think you are overthinking it way too much. I’m just talking about the social norms. Who said anything about committing crimes??? Did you think I was talking about breaking the law? Wtf? You trying to grab a tit while you say hey? Just say what’s up and if she doesn’t bite, go to the next one. Don’t get discouraged, it’s all about getting out there and practicing but it sounds like you may have some social insecurities that need to be addressed first… playbooiiii LOL
The only rules are the ones you make playbooiiii
Is what I was making a joke about. There are, in fact, “rules,” being the crux of the joke.
But no I mean the fact that supposedly no woman wants men to say what’s up anywhere but the bar, which I do not frequent, or the dating apps, which are spyware.
I think I’m starting to understand why you are having problems playbooiiii
Playboooooooioooii
say fuck it, be scared, think I’m creepy, eventually someone will get coffee with me
I mean no but kinda. One thing that’s practically always going to be the case is that you’re physically intimidating, and you should never shirk away from acknowledging that, and be comfortable with it. The trick is to look like a roller-coaster: Intimidating, sure, but it’s not going to throw you around unless you get on and when you do, you’ll still be safe.
I mean, it was a little hyperbolically stated lol. I don’t mean actually be creepy of course.
But fair enough, “fuck it” it is! I don’t really want to start drinking again which seems like my only other option lol.
No. Not if there will be girls there.
The things is, yeah, get a hobby. Find a hobby that often has some kind of social interaction and stereotypically attracts women in your age range. Foster a sincere, genuine interest in that hobby and don’t treat it like a meat market. Get to know people, and make friends.
Also, while you’re at it, get in shape; lift weights, do cardio, watch your macros. Take daily showers, and wear clean clothes every single day. Clean up your space at home, and keep it that way. Work on yourself, and make yourself a person that you would want to date if someone didn’t know anything about you or your personality (because “nice” isn’t a personality).
There’s nothing wrong with dating at work per se, but you need to be very, very careful because it’s easy to quickly go from light flirting to “hostile work environment”, and I’ve known more than a few people that didn’t understand the difference. If you’re a supervisor, you should absolutely not, under any circumstances, date or attempt to date anyone directly below you on the org chart.
Yeah, I have some hobbies. One is D&D. See OOP. Pretty sure she’s complaining about me (kidding, which I really wish I didn’t have to specify lol but I do.)
I’m not exactly in shape but I’m not exactly out of it either, I’m kinds standing in shape’s doorway letting all the AC out. Supposedly dad bods are in however. I don’t use macros I use linux (again, jk.) I do take showers nightly which oughta be close enough and jeans don’t get dirty enough to change every day, but the rest I do. Alright you got me, I have cat toys and laundry on my floor. I’ve seen worse though, and from women at that! I already am fairly up my own ass, I think I’m pretty fuckin’ neat, the issue is where can I talk to people (just something as simple as “hey I think you’re cool, you seeing anyone? Wanna drink some coffee?”) other than an app or bar?
There’s nothing wrong with dating at work per se, but you need to be very, very careful because it’s easy to quickly go from light flirting to “hostile work environment”, and I’ve known more than a few people that didn’t understand the difference.
Not a supervisor, but yeah it just seems like a whole can of worms I’d rather leave closed. Back in the restaurant days it was actively encouraged but this place is different. Not “corporate” but still not full of cool degenerates like my old haunts. Oh and the only woman there even near my age is married to a guy who also works there, so they’d have to hire someone or those two would have to divorce (and even then…)
I have thought about picking up a bullshit 1-2 days a week waiting shift literally just to meet women who work there, (not specific like I’m stalking some poor waitress, just “any restaurant,” most employ some women lol) but atm I’m working too much OT.
Yeah, I have some hobbies. One is D&D.
Per my prior comment - “Find a hobby that often has some kind of social interaction and stereotypically attracts women in your age range.” That is not D&D, my dude. To later points - that’s where you need to be to meet people. I’m going to assume that you don’t go to church, and you said that you were out of college. That said, taking personal enrichment classes can be a good place to meet people and make friends, like finding classes on pottery throwing, or jewelry making. (Lapidary tends to attract more men though, which is a little odd.) Classes on making stained glass, maybe? Or ballroom dancing.
I’m not exactly in shape but I’m not exactly out of it either […] Supposedly dad bods are in however.
Yeah, no. Get in shape. I mean the kind of shape where you have a resting heart rate below 60bpm, can run at least a 5k and survive, lifting free weights, etc. In general people that are in good physical condition, and look like it, will have a far easier time dating, because that’s your first impression. The ‘dad bod’ thing isn’t about women preferring men that look like X, Y, or Z, but is more a statement that personality and how a man acts is more important than how he looks. HOWEVER, your appearance is going to be the first thing that people see, so you want to start on a high point.
For reference, when I was dating, I was riding my bike about 28 miles/day, 5 days/week, and in the gym about two hours a day.
I do take showers nightly
I would suggest morning rather than nightly. People sweat at night, and you want to start the day as fresh as possible.
I’ve seen worse though, and from women at that!
Irrelevant. You’re trying to create a positive impression.
Not a supervisor, but yeah it just seems like a whole can of worms I’d rather leave closed.
It is not something I’d recommend if you work closely with a person.
Honestly, I think that the best bet is going to be trying to make friends through classes that you take for enjoyment, and just trying to be social there. Like, no pressure, not goal-oriented socializing, just trying to meet people and make friends socializing.
Find a hobby that often has some kind of social interaction and stereotypically attracts women in your age range." That is not D&D, my dude.
Sees post about woman complaining about her D&D group
“Women don’t play D&D!”
Bruh Crit Roll came out, your info is like 10yr out of date, women play TTRPGs now. Nerdy ones mostly but that’s cool.
Pottery class is a good idea though, I could get into that shit!
Cool plastic surgery it is lol. Nah ngl I think you’re wrong about the whole “you have to look like them steroid using celebs” but who knows.
Unfortunately I can’t ride my bike that long as I have a job. I’m 5’6" 130lbs no abs, they can take it or leave it at that point tbh, fuck em if they want to be shallow. I’m not going to completely change who I am and become a gym rat, I don’t think it’s as serious of an issue as you make it out to be.
Well too bad! Nightly it is, I’d rather sleep on clean sheets than get home greasy and sweaty from a 10hr shift of manual labour and pretend that getting into bed in that state is not disgusting as fuck, and I’m not taking 2 showers a day unless I need to.
Well cats gotta play, the laundry I can indees pick up but if they don’t want a dude with cats tbh I’m not the one.
Yeah I don’t reccomend it either which is why I say I don’t want to do it, logically.
Yeah that pottery class idea sounds like a good one.
Bruh Crit Roll came out, your info is like 10yr out of date, women play TTRPGs now. Nerdy ones mostly but that’s cool.
It’s still heavily stacked towards being men. If your end goal is to meet women that you can be friends with, and possibly date, you want to reverse those ratios.
Nah ngl I think you’re wrong about the whole “you have to look like them steroid using celebs” but who knows.
For a first impression? It absolutely helps. That’s the whole point of a first impression; they have absolutely nothing to go off but your appearance, so you need to make your appearance look as good as possible. Being bigger than, say, Dwayne Johnson in his prime probably isn’t going to help. And the kind of fitness I’m talking about can absolutely be achieved without resorting to illegal drugs or cosmetic surgery.
Unfortunately I can’t ride my bike that long as I have a job.
That was how I got to and from work. Work was 14 miles, one way, in city traffic. I carried work clothes in a large messenger bag and changed when I got to work. (This obvs. doesn’t work if you have a job that requires you to carry e.g. tools to and from job sites.)
I’m not going to completely change who I am and become a gym rat, I don’t think it’s as serious of an issue as you make it out to be.
Look, that’s on you. But the idea that, “I’m good enough, I’m smart enough, and doggone it, people like me” didn’t work well for Stuart Smalley either. A lot of people think that you shouldn’t have to change anything about who you are in order to find or attract a partner, or that people should ‘accept me as I am’; I disagree with that. If you aren’t finding people that are interested in who you are–and that you are likewise interested in–then the problem isn’t with other people, it’s within you, and incumbent on you to make the changes in yourself. You want your own psychological needs and desires met, but at the same time, you need to be ready and able to meet the needs and desires of another person. And yes, that means making changes. And those changes can be difficult and uncomfortable to make.
You can argue about which changes are, and are not, reasonable to make, but ultimately, if you aren’t willing to make changes, then you can’t expect to find what you say you want.
Well cats gotta play,
I have 6 of them (three Sphynx, one Cornish Rex, a Siamese, and a formerly feral Manx, down from an all-time high of 10). I’m aware. But I still pick up their toys, vacuum the floors/carpet/upholstery, clean their boxes, wipe up the food they pull out of their bowls, etc.
There’s also group activities where you can meet friends of friends who are single. Baseball games, concerts, weddings, camping trips etc.
My friends have mostly moved, the ones that are still here we chill when we can but we’re all adults with lives and known each other for years, not many new faces usually.
It can be a little bit of a pain making new friends as an adult, but it’s totally doable. If you make yourself available you’ll find em. I found what works for me (30s dude) is to just ask. A friend complaining about having to go to a cousin’s wedding? Just ask if you can join and try to make it fun. Then just start listening to conversations and joining in. Doing that I met one guy who does music production on the side for local bands and because of one comment we got talking about AI (something I’ve done some small work with) and how I thought it would impact him in the near future. He reached out through a mutual acquaintance to get my number and is planning to now invite me to his wedding next year.
I’ve got more examples but feel I’m rambling. My friend group had majorly shrunk when I moved two ish years ago and I just went through it. Even adults with kids like friends and can become good ones.
I’ve heard of a club in my country where you put on a colored bracelet based on whether or not are you looking for a partner. Seemed like a cool idea but I think it didn’t catch on.
I’m into it tbh, I’d join up! Sounds like a good idea.
Try searching for “Traffic Light Party” or “Stop Light Party”. Bars/clubs don’t usually do it as a continual thing now but some still host them as special events. Heck, if you can find a place that has done it in the past you could always just ask them if they’ve thought about doing another.
That sounds like a key party lol idk about all that! Jk I’ll google what that is and if there are any near me, thanks!
At least in my area, key parties are pretty openly called key parties. Those are usually hosted at hotels though. For obvious reasons, lol.
Lol I was just making a joke.
Is speed dating still a thing?
It is! And it worked great for me and my partner! We both got tired of the apps, and neither of us are big socialites, and felt like speed dating was a long-shot, but after meeting at speed dating, we went on a coffee date (so we could talk for more then the 7 minutes they gave us at speed dating), and everything just felt right! I won’t say it was love at first sight, but within the year we’d moved in together, and couldn’t be happier with each other. Just search online for speed dating in whatever decent-sized city you’re in or near, and you’ll probably find something!
Idk, but that’s a damn fine idea!
Not for people in their 20s.
At least four years ago (or whenever right before Covid started. I’m so bad with time) my 25 year old cousin in law went to a string of speed dating events. They still exist. Heck. I just duckduckgo’d “my state speed dating” and in about twenty seconds found ten within a 30 minute drive over the next month.
I love tabletop gaming but unless it’s a very large very active group that meets frequently, it’s not a great choice for meeting people for dating purposes. (It is great for making friends, though).
Even when it is a large group, there are better choices, in my experience.
Better ways, IMHO: Volunteering, joining a large church, joining a coed sports league, or joining a large music ensemble (choirs in particular are great).
But you still need to use common sense. To meet available people, you need to go where the available people are. If you volunteer to deliver meals to the elderly, that’s truly wonderful, but you probably won’t meet the person of your dreams doing that.
Volunteering maybe. Church is crazy, you want me to join a whole ass religion just to meet a woman and then what, pretend to be christian for the rest of my life?! I’d sooner go back to the drink! Sports I’m not really into, and everyone keeps saying “don’t just do it to meet women” but like, that’s exactly what I’d be doing. Idk maybe like ping pong or something but idt we have a local ping pong league near me, I’ll look. Choirs are very churchy are they not? That’d be the same as either sports or church in either case, depending.
Yes, “where are the people” is essentially my question. Some insist “literally everywhere, just do the thing and let em complain, fuck em” which seems to be the leading suggestion. Another dude said his area has singles hikes and shit so I’m gonna check that out too if my area does.
Aw :(
That sucks.
For real, I was just reading this and thinking: “Damn, that was totally me back in the day, those poor girls.” 🙁
Well, the best thing you could’ve done is grow enough to have the maturity to post this comment. So there’s that
