Dude the marvel cinematic universe is we…was one of the biggest hits to smash into the box office. Batman is one of the most popular fictional characters ever written. People are still talking about adventure time, regular show, Avatar the last Airbender, and they ended how long ago? SpongeBob is still on the air. Simpsons has lasted longer than most anime.

What are you talking about, Western comics and animation being less popular?

You want to know a pretty unbiased way to judge this? Look at a Halloween store. Spirit even has stuff from the hawk tuah lady, so you know they work fast and go with what’s popular. You might see an old Naruto costume or two, maybe a Goku, and an endcap of what’s popular this year possibly still demon Slayer. But you’ll see a bunch of stuff for Batman, Superman, hell the joker and Harley Quinn gave their own sections each, and that’s just DC.

As plenty of people have gone into the production pipeline, I’m gonna comment on the history of anime and manga and how that affects the way they’re produced, since I did a paper on it many years ago.

Manga dates back at least to the era of woodblock printing, as a famous artist by the name of Hokusai released a collection of prints titled The Manga, but the manga we know today was actually originally inspired by serialized Sunday comic strips from American newspapers imported via South Korea. The comparison to modern Western comics is clear, but I think this connection to the Sunday comics is why production houses like Shonen Jump have their weekly releases which allows them to try out new artists and comics without as much risk as Western comic publishers would have starting a new series with a full comic debut. Manga books can be better thought of as anthologies of weekly comic strips like Calvin and Hobbes rather than superhero comics.

Anime is very much inspired by Disney films, but both anime and manga target demographics of all kinds and every genre you can think of. I think this goes back to the woodblock prints of yore, which were an artform that had no particular demographic or subject matter, ranging from raunchy porn to advertising for theatre shows and anything in between. Add in the economic boom that Japan went through in the 80s just as anime was taking off - a time where money was so easy to come by in the industry that they were just greenlighting pretty much any project regardless of subject matter - and anime had no qualms about portraying adult themes like sex or body horror, as well as deeper musings like the common references to the atomic bombs and the deep cultural trauma that did to Japan.

Also of note: America was actually one of the last places to be introduced to anime and manga, and it took a long time to take off here. The rest of the world was getting into anime during the 80s while Steven Spielberg is quoted as saying that a cartoon movie for adults would never take off in the US in reference to the theatrical release of Akira, the profits of which funded many of the most famous studios of the 2000s.

In short, the cultural gulf between America and Japan divested the newspaper comic strip of its stereotype as a media for kids, which resulted in an artform that catered to all audiences and interests. And upon circling back to America decades later, this lack of the stereotype and willingness to show deeper stories found a niche that had been completely unattended to amongst the teens of the 2000s, who gobbled up media in a form that they had grown up with but treated with more respect than most kids’ cartoons. Also, it probably helped that many kids’ shows were created with the sole intent of selling more action figures.

I don’t have any idea really, but one possible contributing element is the speed of delivery. My understanding (possibly incorrectly) is that western comics are more commonly delivered on a one book per month cycle, whereas Manga delivers a lot more content in the same time period. Part of this production time can probably be attributed to coloring time (Western comics color every panel vs Manga printed in mostly black and white).

There’s also the accessibility of Manga and anime, having relatively newer characters without the burden of decades of backstory (not accounting for One Piece). Running an anime with (mostly) similar story line helps to bring potential new readers up to speed quickly with Manga, whereas the animated adaptations of western comics often seem to pick specific story arcs of comics, or make up entirely new stories.

Comics have an issue with Marvel and DC sucking up most of the air in the room just to rehash the same characters for the millionth time. I’m generally pretty unenthused with superhero stuff and the general aesthetic around that content, however I do like batman to an extent and have enjoyed the movies and stuff related to him. If I wanted to read a batman comic where do I even start? The beginning? Which beginning? His first appearance back in the 40s or the beginning of one of the many iterations of batman? Now I have to do research into 80 years of content just to figure out what to read, or just pick one at random.

The appeal of manga is just being able to read three series in a week that each explore a different setting/idea and are only one volume apiece. If someone tells me to read a longer series I can just start at chapter one and go until I hit the end. Manga/anime absolutely have some oversaturated settings/ideas as well but there’s generally a lot more space for other stuff to get seen and do well, get anime adaptations, etc

I think one of the biggest reason is how easy and accessible it is to read manga or watch anime. There are countless sites where you can consume each for free.

I tried a few years ago trying to find a way to read comics online for free and found nothing.

Sure not the most legal thing but when you are tight on cash, last thing I want to do is spend it on entertainment.

I did used to read a ton of comics growing up, but I would borrow them from the library.

Like others here, I was drawn to anime and manga for the varied storylines that had arcs that mattered, and an ending, and then stopped. And wrote something totally new.

Whereas comics would reboot the same story, and reboot it, and reboot it… Or they’d have a big arc that dramatically changed things… and two issues later suddenly its status quo all over again.

All of this made it hard to really get invested in their characters or stories. Why even do a story if you’re going to erase it all in the next storyline? Why care if so-and-so died if they’ll just be back in next week’s issue?

The other reason was strong female protagonists that weren’t all sexualized to the wazoo. In western comics it was all tight spandex and butt-boob shots and shots framed by women’s thighs… and most of the non-super women were just plot points to be stuffed in a fridge.

Meanwhile there were piles of strong, well-rounded, independent women of all different ages in manga and anime. Even the sexy women were developed characters first and sexy second. With western comics it definitely felt the other way around.

I grew up on Magic Knight Rayearth and Slayers and Iria and Cowboy Bebop. Watching those was like a breath of fresh air compared to Batman Reboot #242 or whatever.

And I really liked the varied art styles. Western comics were pretty much all of a muchness, the same style or close to it. Manga, meanwhile, had everything from Clamp’s super-detailed art to Dragonball’s more simplistic style. It gave them a much more unique feel.

If I want to read Spider-Man, I would probably post the question “where should I start with Spider-Man?” on something like Lemmy and I’d get a dozen different responses suggesting different comic runs or artists. That alone means I’m not getting the full Spider-Man story.

I can go pick up volume 1 of One Punch Man and know I’m at the beginning of a cohesive story.

At least from my perspective, manga and anime are mediums. They can be used to tell any story, and they are used like that. You can find manga and anime for any age group and in any genre. The medium is used for all kinds of stuff.

The problem with western comics and cartoons is that (at least from what I know), the medium is mostly only targetting kids or it’s superhero comics. It’s just so very limited.

For example, I’m currently watching Ancient Magus Bride. It’s a very non-traditional romance story in a fantasy setting with interesting characters and emotional dynamics. So far I’m really enjoying it. I simply can’t imagine a western cartoon/comic even attempting to produce a similar thing. Or well, perhaps I can imagine it but it just doesn’t happen for some reason.

Compare the population amount

is it? movies are dominated by superheroes

Continuity. Nothing ever matters with comics. Superman was a communist, a nazi, a zombie, a literal god and everything inbetween. But most commonly, he is about the same he was 50 years ago. Meanwhile I’ve been growing up alongside famous manga characters. I could be following Naruto to this day and he’d be roughly my age at most points.

Variety. I’m not into comics, I admit, but almost every popular comic I’ve seen is about some kind of superhero. Manga on the other hand have a wide range of topics and target audiences.

Accessibility. I can read a lot of manga right now. Offical, free and online (at least the most recent chapters). There’s no such thing for comics. And while we’re at it: Manga release at smaller chunks in shorter time intervals, which keeps more attention. Being black and white does help, I’d assume.

Anime. They are mass produced and serve to promote manga. There is no equivalent with comics and extended media like cartoons or movies and such often follow their own storyline. Assuming I’d be into the MCU, there is no single comic I could read to see exactly what’s next. If I watch a season of Jujutsu Kaisen, I can look up the correct chapter and continue the story seamlessly.

Is it more popular? Are you sure you’re not just making an assumption based on your anecdotal experiences?

There is creativity and risk in anime that no western media company would ever touch, even if its disagreeable or just shitty. Western stuff is cookie cutter slop aimed at checking all the boxes of a profitable product.

Western media seems to only push things that fit the mold of an investor worthy price of art. Anime goes for a “throw things at the wall” approach so things that are a gamble get made. I think its an issue of scale, anime has a smaller market so the stakes of fucking up massively are survivable while having a huge farm of original indy stories dreaming of being an anime to source from. Western stuff dose not not have the pool of creativity to lift from as scaring or offending investors with risk gets you fired. Triple A gaming seems to reached the same point, bureaucracy and safety prevents new ideas that are risky or they come out bland and boring. Without risk you stagnate and people think your boring. Animation is cheap enough to take risk but has less returns since the market is smaller.

TL;DR: Western media is too bloated to take the creative risk needed and they got to throw buckets of cash to prop up Ol’Reliable season 20 instead.

I suspect the fact that I had to think a minute before I could name a recently released western cartoon that wasn’t Disney or aimed at the under 6 crowd may have something to do with it.

Sadly Saturday Morning cartoons just aren’t a thing anymore in the US.

As for comics, when was the last time you saw a comic at a grocery store or gas station? I know Marvel still makes comics but I haven’t seen them in a store in almost 30 years.

Japan likes their anime and manga so there’s a lot of variety, but for whatever reason our corporate overlords here in America decided that we didn’t want our equivalent anymore.

I would argue that Western animation is more popular as anime, it is just different.

The largest media company in the USA started as an animation company and animation is at the core of the company’s identity.

After the Simpsons proved that prime time animation was profitable, there has been a resurgence in adult animation. There are several Western adult animated shows that are known as much as anime.

The eighth (Inside Out 2), fourteenth (Frozen II), and seventeenth (The Super Mario Bros Movie) top grossing films of all time are animated movies made by American companies. Moreso, the seventeenth movie uses Japanese IP but is made by Americans.