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I realize that this is a very hot political season. Its impossible to keep a “good vibes” feel with this year’s election politics, so I’m not asking for “Don’t be an Ass” or other such naive statement. But please try to be on your best behavior. This is “BestOfLemmy”, and not a political debate site.
I’ve nuked a couple of subthreads that have gotten too hot. Please report anything you think is unhelpful to the greater discussion. I’ll remove distracting posts as I see them, but I don’t promise “good moderation” here. I’m just gonna cleanup what I can see and when I see it.
The general rule for “BestOfLemmy” is to be an appropriate place for a Lemmy beginner to get a feel of Lemmy in general. Yall are somewhat forgiven for the heated topic, but its not a complete pass. Try to keep the perspective of “newbies to Lemmy are stopping by here first”. And think about how you’d like to present yourself to them.
This is my guiding principle for moderation. This isn’t a debate subsite, or debate community. I’m not necessarily interested in having everyone here complete their back-and-forth discussion (especially if it gets heated, swear words, accusatory tones, etc. etc.).
The general rule for “BestOfLemmy” is to be an appropriate place for a Lemmy beginner to get a feel of Lemmy in general. Yall are somewhat forgiven for the heated topic, but its not a complete pass. Try to keep the perspective of “newbies to Lemmy are stopping by here first”. And think about how you’d like to present yourself to them.
This is what you want new people to see? “vote for my candidate or you hate America”? Propaganda bullshit? I’m sure I’ll write in a candidates name as I do every four years as, once again, neither major party is worthy of my vote, but the arrogance of people like you makes me want to vote for Trump out of spite.
Yep voting against Harris is voting against the US. The problem is the US has failed a lot of people. And they don’t care, this argument is an endorsement. People on the Left need to be prepared for what is coming.
It feels like the heat got turned on almost all the way up with this election
It is against US law and international law to send weapons to a country guilty of genocide.
Did Harris forget about this?
I agree, and it’s complete bullshit.
But I’m going to vote for “genocide and some safety for my Trans and female friends” over “more genocide, gay bashing, and forced birthing”. It’s our only two choices until there is either a change in the voting system, or better yet, a revolution.
I respect this even if I don’t agree with it. If you believe voting for Harris is harm reduction then you have to and it is a moral imperative. So I do understand and empathize with people who are honest about how the Democrats are failing but still see critical issues like democracy, gender equality and rights, and the environment better handled by them.
However I believe this hope and faith is misplaced. But I realized this after 6 presidential elections, so I don’t dare to deny you your own experience and personal growth. In 2020 I still had hopes that the border detention will be over if we just get Trump and his racist goons out. The border camps are still here…
Somehow it feels like the government is on autopilot and the only thing elections change is the intensity.
I appreciate the respect and I can assure you that it is mutual. I can completely understand where you are coming from, and your stance. “Harm reduction”, is a good way to put it, because that’s all it really feels like. It doesn’t feel good to feign support for a regime that supports such atrocities, but here I am thanks to our joke of a system.
Trump “wants them to finish the job”,…
And Biden did what to stop them over the past 12 months? Vetoed UN ceasefire twice, vetoed Palestinian statehood, sent thousands of tons of weapons to Israel despite knowing they break international law and have blocked aid entry to civilians, and now is helping Israel invade Lebanon and strike Iran. Trump is saying it but Biden is doing it now.
Whose fault is it that the genocide continued for a year and might be inherited by Trump? In the end we find out that in 2023 Biden is as bloodthirsty as he was in 1982 when Israel invaded Lebanon.
Trump assassinated Solemani. That was the starting point.
We both agree on “genocide bad” so why do you make a difference if it’s done by Biden or trump or Harris?
I think you hope for the destabilization of the USA and their downfall, which is totally legit as you seem to be from the Middle East. But don’t veil your intentions by hiding behind bogus arguments, defending Trump as the better choice. He isn’t, only for religious extremists who want to command the private lifes of others… oh wait, that’s basically extremist Muslims or Project 2024 Christians. Ahh… now I understand! SORRY… you are 100% correct from your perspective.
I never defended Trump. In fact you will find that Trump is far less popular than Harris among Arab Americans and Muslim Americans. No Democratic presidential nominee in fact won a majority of white votes since LBJ, not even Clinton in 1992 and 1996. It is white people who mostly support Trump and Republicans. An insignificant minority of Arabs or Muslims not voting for Harris in Michigan or Pennsylvania won’t matter. I’m merely trying to communicate why genocide is a redline for many of us and the Democrats lost many of us. Again it is clear that the DNC isn’t alarmed by losing votes in an insignificant minority of Americans.
You are assuming too much about me too. I’m not Muslim or religious for example.
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wow, seems both trump and harris supporters are not just pro-genocide but bigots as well.
Yeah totally pro genocide. The only one against it is you,… Hero! Everybody clap for this morally pristine specimen.
I thought that was just them being Dutch.
Yeah the constitution totally doesn’t need a rewrite or a few extra amendments thrown in
Idk who nuxcom is but is this really a contender for best of Lemmy? You see the same comment in every other post so is this person that special or do we have a slow day?
There are two rules currently written for “BestOfLemmy”, and they are:
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Manual Curation – If someone thinks its best-of material, it is allowed here.
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Newbie to Lemmy perspective – Posts should be beneficial to new Lemmy users. I’ll ban topics on a case-by-case basis that violate this (ex: deep server vs server feuds or other “community vs community drama” topics).
From #1: The poster clearly thinks its worth sharing, so it deserves a topic. That’s sufficient. For #2: it is a very political season (with only days remaining before the USA’s voting days), so I think most people looking into Lemmy here would forgive us for a politically charged topic like this.
I evaluate that this topic was posted in good faith, and that newbies would accept such a topic here. So that’s why it stays.
From a “BestOf” perspective: my main problem with the post is that it links to a picture of the post, rather than the original topic and the original discussion that created this particular post. I might make a rule against image-posts (ie: do not make unnecessary screenshots. Prefer to link to various topics and other discussions on Lemmy. Screenshots are counterproductive to the greater Lemmy community).
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My vote is very much on slow day and, given a choice, would nuke this thread entirely, if that helps.
If folk MUST steal other’s work, at least pick something that is semi-uniquely them and not literally a post made while taking a shit.
Actually I was eating cereal but just liked how you put it. Sorry if I offended by reposting. Felt it was a compliment.
Guess I felt they summed it straight up.
I don’t disagree with the point but I have seen the same comment more than 100 times here lol. But I can see where you are coming from.
America is like 100x more powerful than Russia, so it’s really fucking weird that an ex-president is beholden to Putin.
My gut says that Putin has some very embarrassing dirt on Trump.
Edit: is/says
Couch fucking nazis
Sure it’s weird.
His vp pick fucks couches. I’d say it’s on brand.
The whole thing is fucking weird.
But what’s weird and what governs the future lives to be lost are separate issues entirely.
If it’s weird and beholden to Putin, idk what else there is to say.
It’s money and blackmail for sure.
It’s the Foxbat all over again
“If you don’t vote Harris, you hate America”
Great way to convince the folks at hexbear and .ml to vote Trump
As if anyone of them is old enough to vote. They sound like 14 at most.
They weren’t going to vote for Harris anyways. If she magically brought peace to the middle east tomorrow, they’d find some other reason to not vote for her.
They won’t be voting in the election because 85% of them are not American.
I mean basically everyone except usamericans somewhat hates the US. Its like a love hate relationship. Cant live with them, cant live without them.
Anyone in the world who doesn’t somewhat hate their own country is kind of an idiot.
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I’m sorry, I don’t understand what you are saying. If trump assassinates or jails anyone who opposes him, there would be no one remaining to oppose him. And if these “better people” do appear, why wouldn’t he just assassinate or jail them too?
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What if I hate America and voted for Kamala?
Thank you for having more mercy than hatred.
I just hate Donald Trump more.
Good enough, for the next few weeks.
Thanks for that, too
Yall suckin eachothers pee pees hardcore
Sorry for being grateful to someone contributing to me, ideally, not being killed by a fascist government. I’ll remember to be more ungrateful and apathetic next time we disparate folk all have to band together to prevent a fascist from being elected by the dumber half of the country.
Summin wrong with suckin dick?
Just like your mom. And your dad.
You’re right, I do hate America.
Yes, we all know that’s your motivation
I voted for Biden because I wanted to stop fascism. I hated America, but I figured the world would suffer from a Trump presidency.
Then Biden did genocide.
The world suffers and fascism is already here. You’re just voting for red or blue flavors. Death to America, I won’t do it anymore.
“I hate genocide - but death to America”
Gonna assume you’re a troll…which makes me the idiot for commenting
The US was founded on settler-colonial genocide. Surely you know Hitler was inspired by the reservations? Read a fucking book.
You’re right but you’re still an asshole. If you think Biden was bad, you should know that things can always get worse. It’s entirely likely that Trump starts a war with Iran alongside Israel and surrenders Ukraine to Russia. Him using nukes is on the table too. It’s too big a risk. That’s where we are at. Risk minimization.
Biden is already helping Israel aggress against Iran! They’re the most violent state in the region and the US is enabling their ability to start WW3 by provoking all their neighbors. It’s already a regional war and it’s going to get worse no matter who is elected.
As for Ukraine, we could have already had a negotiated peace deal. Instead, Biden and the Democrats want to fight to the last Ukrainian and so they sabotaged peace talks and blew up the Nord Stream Pipeline. They have no one to blame but themselves for the current situation in Ukraine, and it’s their fault that Ukraine will be in an even worse position when Trump steals the election.
They never wanted Ukraine to win anyway. The purpose of the war was to let Russia bleed itself of blood and treasure. If they wanted the war to actually end they’d have given Ukraine the support it actually needs, but they would never and will never do that.
All of that said? If I really though Democrats were the lesser evil I’d vote for them. They’re doing genocide, marching us to WW3, don’t give a shit about meeting our climate goals, and are happy to let Republicans hurt us to help them win over votes. Fuck the Democrats, death to America, and when Trump steals the election you’ll be on my side in the resistance anyway. Why wait?
Trump would make this worse in every respect. Trump can’t steal the election if he loses in a landslide. Votes from people like you could make this happen.
I wish we’d get a candidate that didn’t run purely on hey look how shitty trump is. It’s so lazy and barely worked last time.
This is what happens if your only source of news is Reddit and Lemmy. Just watch any of her extensive interviews and rallies and you will get a whole lot more.
Finding out more about her is very easy, your lack of knowledge does not equal a lack of information
It’s weird nobody ever posts about her policies then. It’s always shit posts like the one we’re on now.
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There are tons every day. Not surprised you don’t see it on ml
Because all the media will report is what Trump farted today.
She has a platform, proposed policies, lots of positive working class messaging, and tons of other stuff.
She is not only running on look how shitty Trump is. That is just the part that gets attention.
And yet during the q&a she fumbled so hard because all she could say is “Trump bad”, going so far as to avoid every question. Shit like “if you could push anything through the Congress, what would be the one primary issue you would choose?”. Literally there on the plate. But she didn’t answer, instead saying “all of them are important”. She said that Trump’s wall was a good idea. When asked if she’d be for appointing more judges to the Supreme Court, she said she wants to reform it but she doesn’t know how and needs to do research. Of course no change re: Palestine. She even said that now that Sinwar is dead, there will be peace in Palestine. And then she said that people who see Palestine as an important issue will still vote for her because of the price of groceries. And then kept talking about Trump. And then when asked if she would support Israel more than Trump would, she again avoided the question, and again defaulted to “Trump bad”.
Her platform is how shitty trump is and embracing republican policies.
Have you actually read her 70 page platform?
Yes
https://kamalaharris.com/issues/
She has a website that very clearly explains her platform.
And yet, when she was served up an easy gimme question at the last town hall debate, she shied away and waffled about bipartisanship.
CAROL NACKENOFF, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR AT SWARTHMORE COLLEGE: Good evening… My question is this: if you could accomplish only one major policy goal that required congressional action, what would it be, and why?
HARRIS: Well, there’s not just one. I have to be honest with you, Carol. There’s a lot of work that needs to happen.
But let’s – let’s – I think that maybe part of this point that – I how I think about it is we’ve got to get past this era of politics and partisan politics slowing down what we need to do in terms of progress in our country. And that means working across the aisle.
USAmerican politics really seeps into every nook and cranny on the goddamn web. I’d much rather read about something happening in the rest of America than USAmerica. It gets really annoying…
Considering America’s choices and influence impact every country on earth, (positive or negative), is it really a surprise?
It’s because we have the least stable democracy and the most economic influence out of any country in the world
!bestoflemmy
wait
Like it or not, these guys can duck up the entire world pretty badly. I can’t afford to ignore it, even if I don’t live anywhere near the U.S.
What are you going to do with the knowledge of them fucking up their economy and voting for a talking orange? What’s that knowledge worth? Are you going to pull your money out of all the AMZN stocks you bought? Send a strongly worded letter to Kamala for not being more radical? Fly across the sea to assassinate an upcoming dictator?
Why is this where your mind goes? Genuinely.
Tell me what you’re going to do with the daily updates on the election or some other dumb shit happening in the USA. I’m genuinely curious.
I’m going to understand that this is a pretty consequential election and Americans are going to want to talk about it?
Talking about it would be enough.
It would find it’s way to a citizen that could make a difference.
There is a reason most modern dictatorships restrict access to the the Internet.
No yeah even most people that live here can’t do shit about it. It’s basically celebrity shit, to most people, it’s just that they’re obviously going to removed about it because it maybe tenuously has an effect on their lives. We may be cooked
Why do people keep saying USAmericans? It looks and sounds stupid, you can just say Americans, everyone will know who you’re talking about .
Because USians didn’t stick, but their pompousness continued on.
Can’t wait for this to be over. In the meantime I should set up some keyword filters in my Lemmy client
I live here. I want Trumpet to lose this election so bad. Mostly because if he is elected, I do think there is a real danger of him abusing his power. That his policies may kill thousands of Americans again.
But also, because I am so fucking tired of hearing about every little thing he says. I wish we could go back to the not verging on the edge of fascism politics were I don’t have to hear or worry about what inane thing the most powerful person in my country has said today.
I’m in America. I’d want that too, which is kind of the motivation - get that narcissist gone for good, and that should free up a loooooot of attention he’s stealing.
As a USAmerican in a swing state I’m pretty sick of it too.
Imagine this shit polluting your SMS and email and postal mail and people ringing your doorbell in addition to the rest of the web.
nope.
tldr: If you vote for Trump, you hate America.
longer:
If you vote for Trump, you’re selfish, psychopathic, and are trying to damage the US more than it already is.
If you vote for anyone who isn’t Trump, you are helping the US take a step in the right direction.
tldr: If you vote for Trump, you hate America.
This part is true
If you vote for anyone who isn’t Trump, you are helping the US take a step in the right direction.
Until we are no longer bound by the Electoral College, this is dangerously false. “Not Trump” isn’t a candidate, and the single candidate with the most votes get the electoral votes. If Trump gets 49% and the “not Trump” votes get 51% but no single “not Trump” candidate gets above 49%, then Trump wins even though Trump got less votes than “not Trump”
The only way to meaningfully vote “not Trump” is to vote for the “not Trump” candidate who everyone is rallying around rather than throwing a stupid protest vote to a third party candidate.
In the 2016 republican primary, Trump got 44.9% of the vote. Three “not Trump” candidates got 50.2% combined, but it was divided between them.
If it is a protest vote, as goes your assumption without evidence? it’s dumb, but it’s their right.
most people vote on policy, so they’re voting for third party candidates that have a stronger stance on whatever policy there is.
in this particular election, Harris already achieved more effective policy change than third candidate platforms in terms of environmentalism, minority rights, and so on, so it makes logical sense to vote for her if you’re a political liberal, but if somebody wants to vote for Stein or anybody else because that candidate is more aligned with their views, that is just as valid as voting for Harris.
they are voting as they should, not as some are hoping they will be scared into voting.
voting sincerely is not “stupid”.
No. It really is. In 2016, 50,000 Pennsylvanians, including myself, voted for Jill Stein because we didn’t like Hilary. Trump won Pennsylvania by less than 50,000 votes and won the presidency.
It was fucking stupid and we wouldn’t even be discussing this piece of shit today, if we hadn’t revenge voted.
it sucks that Trump won, but your vote was valid and no third party voter was throwing their vote away.
they just lost.
Trump won for many other reasons besides third party voters.
there were a lot of bullshit tactics in 2016 that added up to way more votes lost that had a stronger impact on the election result than third-party voters sticking to their values.
shit, gerrymandering is still legal in the US and your voter registrations have practically no protection from interference. That’s insane.
If you voted according to your values, you voted well.
I get what you’re saying, because that’s what I was saying in 2016, and if more people voted third party, it WOULD make a difference in the future.
But if those third party voters vote for Harris, it would make a BIGGER difference NOW.
yup.
voting sincerely is not “stupid”.
If we ever move to some kind of ranked choice or go by the popular vote instead of this gamed Electoral College system? Sure, vote your conscience. Until then, I expect people to rub two brain cells together, see and acknowledge there is a bigger picture, and realize that their moral purity protest vote is counter-productive when everything they want will be impossible if Trump wins.
The system is broken, but that doesn’t mean you have to abandon your principles.
their vote is as valid as any other.
it may be less effective because of the adequated US electoral system, but any vote itself is as valid as any other.
“I expect people to rub two brain cells together”
they’re not dumb, you’re insulting them because they disagree with your perspective.
“see and acknowledge there is a bigger picture”
they probably understand your perspective, there’s no reason why they wouldn’t .
“and realize that their moral purity protest vote”
again, they see things differently, so you are insulting them for no reason.
people talk about third party votes incorrectly as you are here, but most third-party voters vote for the candidate they most believe in, not purely is a protest against the two-party system .
that is a false narrative constructed by the people who have fallen prey to some moral adherence two-party system.
“everything they want will be impossible if Trump wins.”
you are scared of what might happen if Trump wins. third party voters are not willing to compromise their values over their fear.
in this particular election, I don’t think there’s much argument for any of the third party candidates over Harris, but any of those votes are valid and valuable.
Sincerity doesn’t preclude stupidity. Voting to maintain an aesthetic while knowing it’s causing greater harm is stupid.
“Sincerity doesn’t preclude stupidity.”
nor does sincerity require it.
bland sort of statement, isn’t it?
“Voting to maintain an aesthetic”
is that how you vote?
try not to project your insecurities onto others.
It is their right and it’s our right, if not duty, to call them out for exercising their right to the extreme detriment of the very constitution that grants them that right.
“if not duty”
definitely not duty…
“for exercising their right to the extreme detriment…”
…since this isn’t happening.
“…that grants them that right.”
a right you are trying to bully them into not exercising because they won’t do what you say.
interfering with somebody’s right to vote is not as jingoistic as you hope to perform.
Working to split the vote against Harris is effectively a vote for Trump and for fascism.
third party voters are not working to “split the vote”, they are voting for their preferred candidate.
also known as “voting” in healthy democracies.
and no, a vote for a different candidate is not a vote for Trump, that is fundamentally inaccurate fear-based alarmism.
it’s okay that you’re afraid, but that’s no reason to dismantle democracy.
third party voters are not working to “split the vote”, they are voting for their preferred candidate.
Unfortunately with the electoral college, it is splitting the vote. Without ranked choose voting, voting for anyone other than a D or an R is literally throwing your vote away.
No, they aren’t.
they’re living and voting according to their principles.
The system is broken, but that doesn’t mean you have to abandon your principles.
their vote is as valid as any other.
it may be less effective because of the adequated US electoral system, but any vote itself is as valid as any other.
To quote DBZa’s Android 16:
“But there you stand, the good man, doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles into blood-stained dust, the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns.”
Life isn’t some black and white fair tale story where if you stick to your guns hard enough everything will turn out ok. Sometimes you have to abandon your principles to protect them.
“…doing nothing”
voting is literally the political opposite of doing nothing.
“your rigid pacifism crumbles into blood-stained dust,”
this quote is irrelevant; it is a wildly inaccurate analogy for actively voting.
“Sometimes you have to abandon your principles to protect them.”
pffffff hAHaha sorry Chamberlain, but especially in politics, self-righteous groveling submission isn’t as honorable or as effective as the fearful snakes hissing in your ear assure you it is.
I really want this to be true, and I used to believe it, but our voting system is convoluted with a winner-takes-all mechanism. It isn’t a direct democracy where all votes are equal and it’s naive to ignore our elector-based system that encourages total domination of the big boys over everyone else.
Give me ranked choice voting and I’ll vote for my actual preferred candidate. Otherwise, I have to vote for who can actually have a chance to win.
I’m saying this sincerely: it’s fantastic that a growing minority of Americans have finally understood and begun talking about the critical flaws in their broken electoral system. it really only happened to this election cycle, as far as I can see.
living in a broken system does not invalidate your vote.
it may make their vote less effective, but a third-party vote is just as valid as any other.
they’re living and voting according to their principles.
The system is broken, but that doesn’t mean you have to abandon your principles.
their vote is as valid as any other.
This explains the stupid in America’s voting system that makes “voting for not-kamala” the same as “basically voting for trump”. It sounds like idiotic extremism if you don’t have the specific context this video provides. In truth it’s just a weird aftereffect of bad voting rules. It’s worth checking out!
i’ve been well aware of us electoral problems for a long time.
I’m assuming your video is either about ranked choice voting or the electoral College?
I am happy that Americans have finally learned about ranked choice voting this election cycle and are eagerly spreading the news, I really am.
it is “idiotic extremism” to blame third party voters for systemic problems.
you want third party voters to vote like you vote.
That’s fine.
but they don’t have to listen and them voting for Jill Stein or anybody else’s just as valid as them voting for kamala.
it may not be as effective, or logical this election cycle, since Harris has already enacted so many third-party progressive policies, but everyone should vote for their preferred candidate.
yup, FPTP videos.
I am very glad Americans are finally paying attention to this part of electoral reform.
you can track down gerrymandering, registration purges, and several other significant problems in the US electoral system that actually difference your elections.
after you collect them all, it is glaringly obvious that third party voters, who vote for good candidates, unjustifiably receive the brunt of ire that should be focused on systemic electoral policies.
voting is good.
it is good that people are voting for third party candidates.
it’s great that people are voting for Harris.
voting is good.
