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I realize that this is a very hot political season. Its impossible to keep a “good vibes” feel with this year’s election politics, so I’m not asking for “Don’t be an Ass” or other such naive statement. But please try to be on your best behavior. This is “BestOfLemmy”, and not a political debate site.
I’ve nuked a couple of subthreads that have gotten too hot. Please report anything you think is unhelpful to the greater discussion. I’ll remove distracting posts as I see them, but I don’t promise “good moderation” here. I’m just gonna cleanup what I can see and when I see it.
The general rule for “BestOfLemmy” is to be an appropriate place for a Lemmy beginner to get a feel of Lemmy in general. Yall are somewhat forgiven for the heated topic, but its not a complete pass. Try to keep the perspective of “newbies to Lemmy are stopping by here first”. And think about how you’d like to present yourself to them.
This is my guiding principle for moderation. This isn’t a debate subsite, or debate community. I’m not necessarily interested in having everyone here complete their back-and-forth discussion (especially if it gets heated, swear words, accusatory tones, etc. etc.).
So to you, the best of Lemmy is “vote for my candidate or you’re a traitor”? And ON TOP OF THAT, you want people to accept it or get their comment deleted? What kind of reasoning is that? You could just remove such an obviously inflammatory post instead of acting in such way. Especially since you literally admitted this is not to encourage a conversation or a debate:
This isn’t a debate subsite, or debate community. I’m not necessarily interested in having everyone here complete their back-and-forth discussion (especially if it gets heated, swear words, accusatory tones, etc. etc.).
I’m sure new users will love to see this kind of behavior by the mods of this community
I’m deleting the worst of posts that have degenerated into just two members insulting each other over and over again.
You can see the topic is mostly open for your discussion. Just don’t make your posts devolve into useless bullshit and I’ll keep the posts up.
I know it’s careful balance and it’s basically impossible to get it correct on political topics. But I’ll do my best.
I’m simply being honest here. I’m not going to let 5+ posts of insults just stay around here. But this is also a topic with literally hundreds of comments so I’ll be making mistakes as a moderator.
I’m not passing out bans here, yet anyway. I’m just deleting posts that have gone off the rails (as well as the threads / earlier posts that led to overheated discussion).
It’s my second day on lemmy. I came from Reddit because their moderation is so careless.
I am so tired of moderators using their power to police discussions, rather than keep people safe. Anyone can walk away from an argument at any time; you’re not protecting them from that. In fact, what you’re doing is silencing them at a time when they’re frustrated and have no where else to vent. They come here because they need to get it out.
I’m going to start looking for another platform. People like you are the reason I left Reddit.
Its almost as if the system of unpaid volunteer moderators has its limits.
I’m here on Lemmy because as limited as the system of unpaid volunteer moderators is… its better than the CEO of Reddit who has begun to influence the discussion from the top down. If there is a system of unpaid volunteer moderators, at least they should be supported. And Lemmy seems to be place for that.
Farewell 15 hour old novelty account. We hardly knee ye.
His name was Robert Paulson.
My friend, Reddit is still a worse option in my opinion.
I mean, I literally came on this post and started calling out the mod. But you see what they did?
I wasn’t banned. My comments weren’t deleted. Instead they engaged my talking points and tried to offer their opinion instead. I didn’t call them an asshole, they didn’t call me an idiot. We are just talking and disagreeing.
You are never going to find anything like that over Reddit.
Feel free to browse around the different instances though. You might disagree with the mod of this community and/or instance, but you can always find a different one that better fits your views if you think this is a dealbreaker for you.
Finally, Lemmy is very young compared to Reddit. It doesn’t have nearly the same amount of tools available to mods, and yet it’s already more transparent with its mod logs being so open and accessible.
Welcome to Lemmy by the way! We are trying our best lol
So… if you don’t get to say whatever you want with zero consequences, you threaten to leave?
Enjoy the walk back to Reddit, and tell the bots we said hello!
We’re all very sad about whatever you’re being offended by when adults are in the room.
You left reddit because of mods… not the other million things spez and co has done? Have fun on the next platform, friend.
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“vote for my candidate or you’re a traitor”?
More like, vote against the conservative-fascist coalition if you don’t want the US destroyed. If you’re skeptical, we can open up any history book and read about how the German conservative-fascist ruling coalition of the 1930s turned out.
I’m not skeptical. I know exactly what I said and your paternalistic tone is not necessary. You’re not the only one who heard of the Nazi, you know? We are all very aware.
It’s not even about the post itself (even though it’s an extremely low effort screenshot). It’s about the fact that, a community that is supposed to showcase the best of Lemmy, is:
- Proudly showing that this kind of post is supposed to represent Lemmy, which would be sad
- Moderated by someone who legitimately is defending such low effort memes (and honestly mentality) without even pretending that it’s for the sake of engaging in a conversation.
It’s literally just a screenshot of a comment with 4 upvotes that is proudly saying “follow my reasoning and stfu. Otherwise you hate your country”. And the mod is in the comments saying “yeah, agree with this and myself or I’ll delete your comment. I might ban you too depending on how I feel. After all, this is not a conversation”.
And you can tell this is exactly what is happening because every single user that is pointing out how hypocritical and low effort this is, is getting downvoted to hell and called a fascist. And keep in mind, you don’t even know how I’m going to vote in all of this. You and most users here are just attacking other users because they are voicing a different opion than “vote for Harris or you’re a traitor”…Now THAT is truly the best of Lemmy: mindlessly downvoting and replying with a snarky joke.
Part of the reason why I nuked entire discussions is because its an effective way to stop the downvoting, dogpiling, and snarkiness. I’m doing what I can here. Its a big topic, I’m not going to be here all day and I’m the only moderator. I’m ultimately going to have to trust all of you to be on better behavior when I leave to do my things today.
Real talk. I’m trying to set up the conditions for this thread to work out even in my limited absences. I cannot promise prompt deletions or even “fairness” in these circumstances. Chances are, I’m going to come back and there’s going to be 5 hours of back-and-forth trash, downvoting, yadda yadda. I’m not an idiot, I can see and 100% expect that this will happen. When that happens, I’ll have no choice but to delete the whole sub-discussion, starting from the moment it got heated.
And yet, this topic isn’t breaking any rule that I’ve set up ahead of time. And I’m not seeing it as such a massive problem that I need to invent a new rule to specifically nuke this particular topic. I’ve listed out my reasoning for the two rules of this community already. If you want to argue on the basis of those rules (or alternatively, if you want to propose a 3rd rule to be added), I’m willing to meta-discuss the rules with you here.
But don’t take my “delete comment” movements for something else. Lemmy has very few tools for moderation. On other forums, I would have edited yall’s posts rather than delete them outright. I’m forced to delete because its against Lemmy’s philosophy to allow moderator-edits to posts.
I’m not trying to make you feel bad with the “delete comment”. Its just honestly the smallest bit of action I can do on Lemmy. I’m not trying to threaten you, I’m not trying to cause anyone any kind of grief. I get it, its a political topic and you have opinions you want to get out. So talk, get them out. I’ll do what I can to keep the best of the discussions up but I’ll also be deleting the dogpiles as they come up.
Moderating is a pain in the ass. We appreciate ya
That’s what you took from their comment?
That’s literally what they wrote. I even quoted them. At least read the whole comment before writing nonsense
Okay. So… I took your advice and I read their whole comment, and I’m now left to ask:
That’s what you took from their comment?
“Vote for my candidate or you’re a traitor” is not an opinion anymore. You’re an American traitor if you vote for somebody who’s killing the rule of law from within. The destruction of America that Putin wants will not be militarily.
You’re not a traitor. You are just proving the point I made below in my comments about not knowing anything about the user and mindlessly accusing them. You’re also just talking about unrelated stuff since nobody has mentioned Putin, so miss me with your scare tactics and focus on what we’re talking about instead of going off your own tangent. Do better
The general rule for “BestOfLemmy” is to be an appropriate place for a Lemmy beginner to get a feel of Lemmy in general. Yall are somewhat forgiven for the heated topic, but its not a complete pass. Try to keep the perspective of “newbies to Lemmy are stopping by here first”. And think about how you’d like to present yourself to them.
This is what you want new people to see? “vote for my candidate or you hate America”? Propaganda bullshit? I’m sure I’ll write in a candidates name as I do every four years as, once again, neither major party is worthy of my vote, but the arrogance of people like you makes me want to vote for Trump out of spite.
Voting for fascism out of spite lmao
That’s exactly what they do. One in ten Bernie Bros voted for Trump in 2016.
That should tell you all you need to know.
I don’t think that’s necessarily true either lol
News flash bud:
You don’t get to just show your ass and then expect people to kiss it. That’s not how it works. You’re not entitled to anyone’s respect when you refuse to offer it yourself. We all saw you all whine and cry in 2016 and again in 2020. You’re no different now.
So no, you don’t get the respect you demand just because you can stomp your feel loud enough.
Theres a reason no one takes any of you seriously,
You taught them not to.
Are you drunk? What the hell are you talking about? Showing your ass? Respect being demanded? Kissing my ass? Who was whining? Who is “any of you”?
:/
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This post being presented as the best of Lemmy with all the downvote brigading for wrongthink is making me want want to leave Lemmy again. I used to run an instance a while back before the first reddit migration and just gave up (when lemmy.ml and lemmygrad was dominating the lemmyverse) and this whole mess of a post have only made it seem like everything is worse.
And that’s after I’ve spent the last two weeks blocking users I find awful instead of spending all that time insulting and downvoting people “that have the wrong opinion”.
Maybe the best of Lemmy is downvotes and snarky “don’t let the door hit your ass in the way out” comments? I see no point I’m mentioning what seems like the worst of Lemmy these days.
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Thank you mod!
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What if I hate America and voted for Kamala?
Thank you for having more mercy than hatred.
I just hate Donald Trump more.
Thanks for that, too
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Good enough, for the next few weeks.
Idk who nuxcom is but is this really a contender for best of Lemmy? You see the same comment in every other post so is this person that special or do we have a slow day?
My vote is very much on slow day and, given a choice, would nuke this thread entirely, if that helps.
If folk MUST steal other’s work, at least pick something that is semi-uniquely them and not literally a post made while taking a shit.
Actually I was eating cereal but just liked how you put it. Sorry if I offended by reposting. Felt it was a compliment.
Yeah, this is what I’m here to protect. “BestOfLemmy” isn’t a political channel. But it is a manual curation and manual sharing community.
The idea that you like a post and feel like that’s enough to share is what I’d like to encourage. It gets weird with politics because now others are less inclined to post here because of this post however. But if the priority is to encourage posts and sharing here, I cannot delete a topic like this that was posted in good faith.
Its not like I’ll accept all topics of political nature either, but given how close we are to the election it makes sense why you’d be thinking about this right now.
There are two rules currently written for “BestOfLemmy”, and they are:
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Manual Curation – If someone thinks its best-of material, it is allowed here.
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Newbie to Lemmy perspective – Posts should be beneficial to new Lemmy users. I’ll ban topics on a case-by-case basis that violate this (ex: deep server vs server feuds or other “community vs community drama” topics).
From #1: The poster clearly thinks its worth sharing, so it deserves a topic. That’s sufficient. For #2: it is a very political season (with only days remaining before the USA’s voting days), so I think most people looking into Lemmy here would forgive us for a politically charged topic like this.
I evaluate that this topic was posted in good faith, and that newbies would accept such a topic here. So that’s why it stays.
From a “BestOf” perspective: my main problem with the post is that it links to a picture of the post, rather than the original topic and the original discussion that created this particular post. I might make a rule against image-posts (ie: do not make unnecessary screenshots. Prefer to link to various topics and other discussions on Lemmy. Screenshots are counterproductive to the greater Lemmy community).
It seems labeling any thread “best of” in advance would be premature.
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Guess I felt they summed it straight up.
I don’t disagree with the point but I have seen the same comment more than 100 times here lol. But I can see where you are coming from.
“If you don’t vote Harris, you hate America”
Great way to convince the folks at hexbear and .ml to vote Trump
They weren’t going to vote for Harris anyways. If she magically brought peace to the middle east tomorrow, they’d find some other reason to not vote for her.
They won’t be voting in the election because 85% of them are not American.
As if anyone of them is old enough to vote. They sound like 14 at most.
I mean basically everyone except usamericans somewhat hates the US. Its like a love hate relationship. Cant live with them, cant live without them.
Anyone in the world who doesn’t somewhat hate their own country is kind of an idiot.
“see what you made me do? You made me do the exact opposite of what you’re asking me to do.”
Yeah, nah, bro, that’s not how this works. They were already going to vote Trump, no matter what.
Refusing to vote for Harris and actually voting for Trump are 2 different things, I know you can make the argument that both lead to the same outcome but they are 2 different choices
I mean, sure. In the same way that when you pull up to a traffic circle, you can go left or right. After all, they’ll both lead to the same place, right?
They are two different things, in the same way that running towards a rabid dog, and sitting still while a rabid dog runs towards you, are two different things
“I just don’t think the dog should have rabies in the first place” is a perfectly reasonable thing to say, and it’s not going to make the dog not have rabies
Weve reached agreement
They just showed how dumb you are tho, so yeah I guess you’re right here.
America is like 100x more powerful than Russia, so it’s really fucking weird that an ex-president is beholden to Putin.
It’s money and blackmail for sure.
Sure it’s weird.
His vp pick fucks couches. I’d say it’s on brand.
The whole thing is fucking weird.
But what’s weird and what governs the future lives to be lost are separate issues entirely.
If it’s weird and beholden to Putin, idk what else there is to say.
My gut says that Putin has some very embarrassing dirt on Trump.
Edit: is/says
Couch fucking nazis
Putin masturbates over the thought of destroying the US. He can’t do it militarily so he does that by sowing division, spreading false narratives, putting Americans against Americans and ultimately having a US president who is his lapdog
That doesn’t explain why a former president is his lapdog. Putin has his motivations which are obvious. Trump’s motivation beyond being a greedy, selfish, morally devoid asshole are not so clear.
Well a motivation could be his narcissism (among other reasons)
It’s the Foxbat all over again
USAmerican politics really seeps into every nook and cranny on the goddamn web. I’d much rather read about something happening in the rest of America than USAmerica. It gets really annoying…
It’s because we have the least stable democracy and the most economic influence out of any country in the world
!bestoflemmy
wait
Read it as ‘we have at least stable democracy’, hung for a few moments
Like it or not, these guys can duck up the entire world pretty badly. I can’t afford to ignore it, even if I don’t live anywhere near the U.S.
What are you going to do with the knowledge of them fucking up their economy and voting for a talking orange? What’s that knowledge worth? Are you going to pull your money out of all the AMZN stocks you bought? Send a strongly worded letter to Kamala for not being more radical? Fly across the sea to assassinate an upcoming dictator?
Why is this where your mind goes? Genuinely.
Tell me what you’re going to do with the daily updates on the election or some other dumb shit happening in the USA. I’m genuinely curious.
I’m going to understand that this is a pretty consequential election and Americans are going to want to talk about it?
And you wouldn’t have that without the daily updates? From one day to the next you forget there’s an election and need a constant reminder? How old are you? Do you need to get checked for dementia?
Talking about it would be enough.
It would find it’s way to a citizen that could make a difference.
There is a reason most modern dictatorships restrict access to the the Internet.
No yeah even most people that live here can’t do shit about it. It’s basically celebrity shit, to most people, it’s just that they’re obviously going to removed about it because it maybe tenuously has an effect on their lives. We may be cooked
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Not sure what you wanted to say but your instance filtered it.
Can’t wait for this to be over. In the meantime I should set up some keyword filters in my Lemmy client
Ah that’s actually a great idea
I live here. I want Trump to lose this election so bad. Mostly because if he is elected, I do think there is a real danger of him abusing his power. That his policies may kill thousands of Americans again.
But also, because I am so fucking tired of hearing about every little thing he says. I wish we could go back to the not verging on the edge of fascism politics were I don’t have to hear or worry about what inane thing the most powerful person in my country has said today.
I’m in America. I’d want that too, which is kind of the motivation - get that narcissist gone for good, and that should free up a loooooot of attention he’s stealing.
As a USAmerican in a swing state I’m pretty sick of it too.
Imagine this shit polluting your SMS and email and postal mail and people ringing your doorbell in addition to the rest of the web.
Why do people keep saying USAmericans? It looks and sounds stupid, you can just say Americans, everyone will know who you’re talking about .
Because USians didn’t stick, but their pompousness continued on. E: in the form of saying usamericans
I prefer burgerlanders personally.
Most xenophobes do.
^worlds lamest attempt at insulting someone.
Not an insult, just a description
I didn’t know geographical size denoted who gets to claim being called Americans. You’re arguing in bad faith and you know it, because you know no one else in the world calls anyone else Americans except for people from the United States of America. It’s silly to argue otherwise, I’m not saying anything controversial here.
People love being anti-american contrarians on the internet even if it means being abhorrently wrong.
you can just say
Americanspeople, everyone will knowwhoyou’re talking about USA.Fixed this for you. Kind of a pet peeve of mine when people use ‘defaults’, like everyone on the internet are in America, or if you’re talking to someone from a capital of a different country they will assume you’re also in the capital, everyone lives in America timezone, everyone using English uses en_US locale, and if by some bizarre chance you’re in another country you can only switch language and country together, etc
Ask someone from South America
Does anyone else in the world call them Americans? No and you know it
Considering America’s choices and influence impact every country on earth, (positive or negative), is it really a surprise?
Does it have to be a surprise to be annoying?
Probably not, but then it also shouldn’t come as a surprise that you being annoyed will have little impact
Never said it would 🤷
Nothing’s stopping you from reading anything else? The internet as a whole is mostly american-based, so there’s plenty out there to read about.
The internet as a whole is mostly american-based
Well that’s a narrow-minded view…
It is though. Not saying it should be that way or that it should remain that way, or that there aren’t internet spaces out there that aren’t American based. Just that the large majority of it is.
nope.
tldr: If you vote for Trump, you hate America.
longer:
If you vote for Trump, you’re selfish, psychopathic, and are trying to damage the US more than it already is.
If you vote for anyone who isn’t Trump, you are helping the US take a step in the right direction.
tldr: If you vote for Trump, you hate America.
This part is true
If you vote for anyone who isn’t Trump, you are helping the US take a step in the right direction.
Until we are no longer bound by the Electoral College, this is dangerously false. “Not Trump” isn’t a candidate, and the single candidate with the most votes get the electoral votes. If Trump gets 49% and the “not Trump” votes get 51% but no single “not Trump” candidate gets above 49%, then Trump wins even though Trump got less votes than “not Trump”
The only way to meaningfully vote “not Trump” is to vote for the “not Trump” candidate who everyone is rallying around rather than throwing a stupid protest vote to a third party candidate.
In the 2016 republican primary, Trump got 44.9% of the vote. Three “not Trump” candidates got 50.2% combined, but it was divided between them.
If it is a protest vote, as goes your assumption without evidence? it’s dumb, but it’s their right.
most people vote on policy, so they’re voting for third party candidates that have a stronger stance on whatever policy there is.
in this particular election, Harris already achieved more effective policy change than third candidate platforms in terms of environmentalism, minority rights, and so on, so it makes logical sense to vote for her if you’re a political liberal, but if somebody wants to vote for Stein or anybody else because that candidate is more aligned with their views, that is just as valid as voting for Harris.
they are voting as they should, not as some are hoping they will be scared into voting.
voting sincerely is not “stupid”.
voting sincerely is not “stupid”.
If we ever move to some kind of ranked choice or go by the popular vote instead of this gamed Electoral College system? Sure, vote your conscience. Until then, I expect people to rub two brain cells together, see and acknowledge there is a bigger picture, and realize that their moral purity protest vote is counter-productive when everything they want will be impossible if Trump wins.
The system is broken, but that doesn’t mean you have to abandon your principles.
their vote is as valid as any other.
it may be less effective because of the adequated US electoral system, but any vote itself is as valid as any other.
“I expect people to rub two brain cells together”
they’re not dumb, you’re insulting them because they disagree with your perspective.
“see and acknowledge there is a bigger picture”
they probably understand your perspective, there’s no reason why they wouldn’t .
“and realize that their moral purity protest vote”
again, they see things differently, so you are insulting them for no reason.
people talk about third party votes incorrectly as you are here, but most third-party voters vote for the candidate they most believe in, not purely is a protest against the two-party system .
that is a false narrative constructed by the people who have fallen prey to some moral adherence two-party system.
“everything they want will be impossible if Trump wins.”
you are scared of what might happen if Trump wins. third party voters are not willing to compromise their values over their fear.
in this particular election, I don’t think there’s much argument for any of the third party candidates over Harris, but any of those votes are valid and valuable.
No. It really is. In 2016, 50,000 Pennsylvanians, including myself, voted for Jill Stein because we didn’t like Hilary. Trump won Pennsylvania by less than 50,000 votes and won the presidency.
It was fucking stupid and we wouldn’t even be discussing this piece of shit today, if we hadn’t revenge voted.
it sucks that Trump won, but your vote was valid and no third party voter was throwing their vote away.
they just lost.
Trump won for many other reasons besides third party voters.
there were a lot of bullshit tactics in 2016 that added up to way more votes lost that had a stronger impact on the election result than third-party voters sticking to their values.
shit, gerrymandering is still legal in the US and your voter registrations have practically no protection from interference. That’s insane.
If you voted according to your values, you voted well.
I get what you’re saying, because that’s what I was saying in 2016, and if more people voted third party, it WOULD make a difference in the future.
But if those third party voters vote for Harris, it would make a BIGGER difference NOW.
yup.
If you voted according to your values, you voted well.
Exactly. And while I agree, I also live somewhere that uses a variety of ranked choice voting for some elections.
If someone truly wants to vote their values they should also have some understanding of how their voting system works.
If a vote for the candidate you believe in results in your least preferred candidate getting ahead, shouldn’t you consider a compromise vote to get a candidate closer to your values in power?
“If a vote for the candidate you believe in results in your least preferred candidate getting ahead, shouldn’t you consider a compromise vote to get a candidate closer to your values in power?”
sure, and they probably do.
your statement implies that third party voters are politically illiterate and aren’t considering their vote, which doesn’t hold any water.
do you think all Harris or Trump voters are carefully considering their options?
many are voting according to a familiar primary color.
from simple logic, third-party voters are likely more politically considerate than primary color voters.
a lot of the arguments against third-party voting are arguments against voting in general.
that is usually my problem, as it is here, with complaining about third-party voting.
it is completely predicated on the assumption that 3rd party voters are making the “wrong” decision in some fundamental way that primary color voters are not, although the hypothetical flaws that could apply to a third- party voter already apply to primary color voters.
If you don’t assume that the right to vote is “wrong” for people who don’t agree with you in the first place, then your complaints about third party voting fall apart.
third party voters like a different candidate.
and that’s good and they should vote for them if they want to.
a lot of the arguments against third-party voting are arguments against voting in general.
Maybe. But with the system in place a vote for a third-party candidate is effectively an abstention. I think you’re right that they’re more politically considerate and wanting to make a difference. It’s the desire to make a difference and effectively abstaining that seems incongruous.
Sincerity doesn’t preclude stupidity. Voting to maintain an aesthetic while knowing it’s causing greater harm is stupid.
“Sincerity doesn’t preclude stupidity.”
nor does sincerity require it.
bland sort of statement, isn’t it?
“Voting to maintain an aesthetic”
is that how you vote?
try not to project your insecurities onto others.
It is their right and it’s our right, if not duty, to call them out for exercising their right to the extreme detriment of the very constitution that grants them that right.
“if not duty”
definitely not duty…
“for exercising their right to the extreme detriment…”
…since this isn’t happening.
“…that grants them that right.”
a right you are trying to bully them into not exercising because they won’t do what you say.
interfering with somebody’s right to vote is not as jingoistic as you hope to perform.
Working to split the vote against Harris is effectively a vote for Trump and for fascism.
third party voters are not working to “split the vote”, they are voting for their preferred candidate.
also known as “voting” in healthy democracies.
and no, a vote for a different candidate is not a vote for Trump, that is fundamentally inaccurate fear-based alarmism.
it’s okay that you’re afraid, but that’s no reason to dismantle democracy.
third party voters are not working to “split the vote”, they are voting for their preferred candidate.
Unfortunately with the electoral college, it is splitting the vote. Without ranked choose voting, voting for anyone other than a D or an R is literally throwing your vote away.
No, they aren’t.
they’re living and voting according to their principles.
The system is broken, but that doesn’t mean you have to abandon your principles.
their vote is as valid as any other.
it may be less effective because of the adequated US electoral system, but any vote itself is as valid as any other.
To quote DBZa’s Android 16:
“But there you stand, the good man, doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles into blood-stained dust, the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns.”
Life isn’t some black and white fair tale story where if you stick to your guns hard enough everything will turn out ok. Sometimes you have to abandon your principles to protect them.
“…doing nothing”
voting is literally the political opposite of doing nothing.
“your rigid pacifism crumbles into blood-stained dust,”
this quote is irrelevant; it is a wildly inaccurate analogy for actively voting.
“Sometimes you have to abandon your principles to protect them.”
pffffff hAHaha sorry Chamberlain, but especially in politics, self-righteous groveling submission isn’t as honorable or as effective as the fearful snakes hissing in your ear assure you it is.
I really want this to be true, and I used to believe it, but our voting system is convoluted with a winner-takes-all mechanism. It isn’t a direct democracy where all votes are equal and it’s naive to ignore our elector-based system that encourages total domination of the big boys over everyone else.
Give me ranked choice voting and I’ll vote for my actual preferred candidate. Otherwise, I have to vote for who can actually have a chance to win.
I’m saying this sincerely: it’s fantastic that a growing minority of Americans have finally understood and begun talking about the critical flaws in their broken electoral system. it really only happened to this election cycle, as far as I can see.
living in a broken system does not invalidate your vote.
it may make their vote less effective, but a third-party vote is just as valid as any other.
they’re living and voting according to their principles.
The system is broken, but that doesn’t mean you have to abandon your principles.
their vote is as valid as any other.
duverger has nothing to do with the electoral college. this is a Gish gallop
duverger’s “law” shows that the problem with fptp is that people strategically vote, leading to party consolidation. values voting prevents party consolidation
This explains the stupid in America’s voting system that makes “voting for not-kamala” the same as “basically voting for trump”. It sounds like idiotic extremism if you don’t have the specific context this video provides. In truth it’s just a weird aftereffect of bad voting rules. It’s worth checking out!
i’ve been well aware of us electoral problems for a long time.
I’m assuming your video is either about ranked choice voting or the electoral College?
I am happy that Americans have finally learned about ranked choice voting this election cycle and are eagerly spreading the news, I really am.
it is “idiotic extremism” to blame third party voters for systemic problems.
you want third party voters to vote like you vote.
That’s fine.
but they don’t have to listen and them voting for Jill Stein or anybody else’s just as valid as them voting for kamala.
it may not be as effective, or logical this election cycle, since Harris has already enacted so many third-party progressive policies, but everyone should vote for their preferred candidate.
yup, FPTP videos.
I am very glad Americans are finally paying attention to this part of electoral reform.
you can track down gerrymandering, registration purges, and several other significant problems in the US electoral system that actually difference your elections.
after you collect them all, it is glaringly obvious that third party voters, who vote for good candidates, unjustifiably receive the brunt of ire that should be focused on systemic electoral policies.
voting is good.
it is good that people are voting for third party candidates.
it’s great that people are voting for Harris.
voting is good.
I wish we’d get a candidate that didn’t run purely on hey look how shitty trump is. It’s so lazy and barely worked last time.
She has a platform, proposed policies, lots of positive working class messaging, and tons of other stuff.
She is not only running on look how shitty Trump is. That is just the part that gets attention.
And yet during the q&a she fumbled so hard because all she could say is “Trump bad”, going so far as to avoid every question. Shit like “if you could push anything through the Congress, what would be the one primary issue you would choose?”. Literally there on the plate. But she didn’t answer, instead saying “all of them are important”. She said that Trump’s wall was a good idea. When asked if she’d be for appointing more judges to the Supreme Court, she said she wants to reform it but she doesn’t know how and needs to do research. Of course no change re: Palestine. She even said that now that Sinwar is dead, there will be peace in Palestine. And then she said that people who see Palestine as an important issue will still vote for her because of the price of groceries. And then kept talking about Trump. And then when asked if she would support Israel more than Trump would, she again avoided the question, and again defaulted to “Trump bad”.
Her platform is how shitty trump is and embracing republican policies.
Have you actually read her 70 page platform?
Yes
There are much more rewarding works of fiction to spend that time on
Witty, but you’re acknowledging that she does actually have a platform which extends beyond “not trump”, even though too much of the marketing is sharing that message.
I don’t like to be told to read something by people who don’t have any reading comprehension.
She has a platform in the sense that she has a bunch of shit she’s willing to say after a political career of being willing to say literally fucking anything. “It’s just a debate hahaha!”
Oh wait. Did she actually say she’d raise the minimum wage to 15 dollars an hour and you believed her? Did the woman that illegally kept marijuana offenders in prison after the feds directed her to release them in order to use them as slave labor tell you that she’d legalize marijuana AND YOU BELIEVED HER??
Is that why you’re so credulous to every astroturfed line that comes out of their bot farm? You’re just stupid like that?
I’m not a fan of hers, nor am I credulous to everything she says. But I acknowledge that she has a platform, which is more than I can say for a stupid someone, whose “platform” is just two pages of heartstring issue bullet points. To be clear, I didn’t tell you to read anything. I asked someone else if they’ve read her platform, and you jumped in.
https://kamalaharris.com/issues/
She has a website that very clearly explains her platform.
And yet, when she was served up an easy gimme question at the last town hall debate, she shied away and waffled about bipartisanship.
CAROL NACKENOFF, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR AT SWARTHMORE COLLEGE: Good evening… My question is this: if you could accomplish only one major policy goal that required congressional action, what would it be, and why?
HARRIS: Well, there’s not just one. I have to be honest with you, Carol. There’s a lot of work that needs to happen.
But let’s – let’s – I think that maybe part of this point that – I how I think about it is we’ve got to get past this era of politics and partisan politics slowing down what we need to do in terms of progress in our country. And that means working across the aisle.It doesn’t though. She states what she wants to do, but not how she will do them. Because she doesn’t know how things work. She says she’s cutting taxes, but then talks only about child tax credits. Sorry, tax credits is not the same as cutting taxes, and the credits she’s talking about doesn’t help everyone, just parents and business owners. How will she cut taxes? It never says.
Finding out more about her is very easy, your lack of knowledge does not equal a lack of information
It’s weird nobody ever posts about her policies then. It’s always shit posts like the one we’re on now.
There are tons every day. Not surprised you don’t see it on ml
I browse all the popular instances
Because all the media will report is what Trump farted today.
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This is what happens if your only source of news is Reddit and Lemmy. Just watch any of her extensive interviews and rallies and you will get a whole lot more.
It’s not working this time at all.
You’re right, I do hate America.
Yes, we all know that’s your motivation
I voted for Biden because I wanted to stop fascism. I hated America, but I figured the world would suffer from a Trump presidency.
Then Biden did genocide.
The world suffers and fascism is already here. You’re just voting for red or blue flavors. Death to America, I won’t do it anymore.
“I hate genocide - but death to America”
Gonna assume you’re a troll…which makes me the idiot for commenting
The US was founded on settler-colonial genocide. Surely you know Hitler was inspired by the reservations? Read a fucking book.
You’re right but you’re still an asshole. If you think Biden was bad, you should know that things can always get worse. It’s entirely likely that Trump starts a war with Iran alongside Israel and surrenders Ukraine to Russia. Him using nukes is on the table too. It’s too big a risk. That’s where we are at. Risk minimization.
Biden is already helping Israel aggress against Iran! They’re the most violent state in the region and the US is enabling their ability to start WW3 by provoking all their neighbors. It’s already a regional war and it’s going to get worse no matter who is elected.
As for Ukraine, we could have already had a negotiated peace deal. Instead, Biden and the Democrats want to fight to the last Ukrainian and so they sabotaged peace talks and blew up the Nord Stream Pipeline. They have no one to blame but themselves for the current situation in Ukraine, and it’s their fault that Ukraine will be in an even worse position when Trump steals the election.
They never wanted Ukraine to win anyway. The purpose of the war was to let Russia bleed itself of blood and treasure. If they wanted the war to actually end they’d have given Ukraine the support it actually needs, but they would never and will never do that.
All of that said? If I really though Democrats were the lesser evil I’d vote for them. They’re doing genocide, marching us to WW3, don’t give a shit about meeting our climate goals, and are happy to let Republicans hurt us to help them win over votes. Fuck the Democrats, death to America, and when Trump steals the election you’ll be on my side in the resistance anyway. Why wait?
Trump would make this worse in every respect. Trump can’t steal the election if he loses in a landslide. Votes from people like you could make this happen.
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It is against US law and international law to send weapons to a country guilty of genocide.
Did Harris forget about this?
I agree, and it’s complete bullshit.
But I’m going to vote for “genocide and some safety for my Trans and female friends” over “more genocide, gay bashing, and forced birthing”. It’s our only two choices until there is either a change in the voting system, or better yet, a revolution.
I respect this even if I don’t agree with it. If you believe voting for Harris is harm reduction then you have to and it is a moral imperative. So I do understand and empathize with people who are honest about how the Democrats are failing but still see critical issues like democracy, gender equality and rights, and the environment better handled by them.
However I believe this hope and faith is misplaced. But I realized this after 6 presidential elections, so I don’t dare to deny you your own experience and personal growth. In 2020 I still had hopes that the border detention will be over if we just get Trump and his racist goons out. The border camps are still here…
Somehow it feels like the government is on autopilot and the only thing elections change is the intensity.
I appreciate the respect and I can assure you that it is mutual. I can completely understand where you are coming from, and your stance. “Harm reduction”, is a good way to put it, because that’s all it really feels like. It doesn’t feel good to feign support for a regime that supports such atrocities, but here I am thanks to our joke of a system.
Trump “wants them to finish the job”,…
And Biden did what to stop them over the past 12 months? Vetoed UN ceasefire twice, vetoed Palestinian statehood, sent thousands of tons of weapons to Israel despite knowing they break international law and have blocked aid entry to civilians, and now is helping Israel invade Lebanon and strike Iran. Trump is saying it but Biden is doing it now.
Whose fault is it that the genocide continued for a year and might be inherited by Trump? In the end we find out that in 2023 Biden is as bloodthirsty as he was in 1982 when Israel invaded Lebanon.
Trump assassinated Solemani. That was the starting point.
We both agree on “genocide bad” so why do you make a difference if it’s done by Biden or trump or Harris?
I think you hope for the destabilization of the USA and their downfall, which is totally legit as you seem to be from the Middle East. But don’t veil your intentions by hiding behind bogus arguments, defending Trump as the better choice. He isn’t, only for religious extremists who want to command the private lifes of others… oh wait, that’s basically extremist Muslims or Project 2024 Christians. Ahh… now I understand! SORRY… you are 100% correct from your perspective.
I never defended Trump. In fact you will find that Trump is far less popular than Harris among Arab Americans and Muslim Americans. No Democratic presidential nominee in fact won a majority of white votes since LBJ, not even Clinton in 1992 and 1996. It is white people who mostly support Trump and Republicans. An insignificant minority of Arabs or Muslims not voting for Harris in Michigan or Pennsylvania won’t matter. I’m merely trying to communicate why genocide is a redline for many of us and the Democrats lost many of us. Again it is clear that the DNC isn’t alarmed by losing votes in an insignificant minority of Americans.
You are assuming too much about me too. I’m not Muslim or religious for example.
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I thought that was just them being Dutch.
Dutch guy here, fair assessment.
Though I did not vote for Wilders. I voted for the animal rights party, because they are against war. Period.
Sadly, we have a lot of idiots in this country that believe that foreigners are the root cause of all problems, because of years of indoctrination by certain politicians. Which is why the far right won.
Won’t someone PLEASE think about the CONSTITUTION!
Trump spent four years breaking the law and Biden spent four years not putting his ass in jail. Meanwhile, you’ve NYPD officers putting bullets into the heads of people adjacent to turnstill jumpers. You’ve got paramilitary raids on college campuses and suburban neighbors to thrash peaceful protesters. You’ve got pipeline companies stealing property with the government’s blessing, while locals blocking the illegal construction are sprayed with tear gas. You’ve got a billionaire actively buying votes three weeks before an election, while the FEC twiddles its thumbs. You’ve got illegal overseas occupation of territory from Okinawa to Al Anbar to Guantanamo Bay. You’ve got a SCOTUS that’s taking bribes to issue rulings and Congressmen taking bribes to write laws and Governors taking bribes to turn over public property to private interests.
Whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case it is unfit to exist.
Biden spent four years not putting his ass in jail.
The president cannot escape the systems of checks & balances we have to unilaterally imprison someone.
The president cannot escape the systems of checks & balances
The DOJ took SBF from indictment to jail inside three months. They have been fucking around on the Trump indictments for over two years.
SBF’s case was completely different, since the legality of his actions was much more easily provable as a crime. Not only was every transaction on the actual blockchain, which is immutable and couldn’t have possibly been faked, but his actions didn’t exactly have any nuance that could be argued in court. There were funds, they weren’t his, but he used them. Case closed.
Trump’s case involves not only a lot more possible statutes he could have violated, but also a lot of arbitrary actions that don’t perfectly fall into a rigid box of “this is legal” or “this is illegal.”
Plus, if you have more money to draw out legal fights, you can keep them going for longer, regardless of your case. SBF had most of his assets confiscated since they were almost entirely from the fraud, so he didn’t have the same luxuries.
the legality of his actions was much more easily provable as a crime
Trump was convicted of a full 37 counts in the Stormy Daniels indictment. He’s lost multiple civil cases for defamation, totaling hundred of millions in judgements. Rudy Guliani lost his law license in New York over electoral interference. And 623 of the J6ers have received sentences. The idea that these folks are difficult to prosecute is absurd. But you do need to get them in front of a jury first.
Trump’s case involves not only a lot more possible statutes he could have violated, but also a lot of arbitrary actions that don’t perfectly fall into a rigid box of “this is legal” or “this is illegal.”
You can wave your hands at the legal system and insist “Its too hard!”, as so many in the Democratic Party have already done. But in the few cases where Trump or his minions do actually get in front of a jury, they consistently lose.
Plus, if you have more money to draw out legal fights
OJ’s original criminal legal team bankrupted him. Once he was out of cash, he started losing courtroom fights. He eventually ended up in jail for assaulting a Vegas pawn shop owner over some illegally fenced sports memorabilia.
Trump’s been involved in substantially more criminal activity and could be prosecuted significantly more than The Juice. But cases have to go to trial first. We have 91 indictments, but only one case that’s made it through a full trial, in large part because federal prosecutors are dragging their heels.
That ruling does not affect the ability of the president to put someone else in jail, unilaterally, of their own decision.
Yeah the constitution totally doesn’t need a rewrite or a few extra amendments thrown in
It needs to be thrown out and restarted from scratch. The status quo is not good, it is very bad and I’m suspicious of anyone who defends it
Personally I don’t think it’s helpful to treat a slavers’ pact like how some people treat the bible.
I couldn’t give less of a turd about a constitution, especially one that’s been the source of endless oppression and genocide. It’s a fundamental reason why the usa is such a trash heap.
Article V cries out to be invoked. The most important part of the document and the least regularly employed.
