• @[email protected]
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        31ā€¢14 days ago

        Europe is about to experience what africa and south america have been experiencing for decades.

        Buckle up.

        • @[email protected]
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          30ā€¢13 days ago

          The difference is that Europe should be more capable of resisting America. Weā€™ll see if that actually happens but given how things have gone before when the EU went after American companies I donā€™t think theyā€™ll budge easily.

          • @[email protected]
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            1ā€¢13 days ago

            Not when combined with ā€œcompletely unrelatedā€ tarrifs and psyops from china and russia.

            10 years until europe falls.

  • magnetosphere
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    134ā€¢13 days ago

    Not even in office yet, and already making threats.

    Iā€™d like to see Europe tell Vance to fuck off. I suspect that if Europe gives in now, the Trump administration will make this same threat every time Europe does something he doesnā€™t like.

    Trump will be an unreliable NATO ally anyway, so it isnā€™t much of a risk on Europeā€™s part.

    • OpenStars
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      24ā€¢13 days ago

      And this was from September so not even elected yet.

      Tbh it kinda sounds like they just want to leave NATO regardless.

      • magnetosphere
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        13ā€¢13 days ago

        I get the same feeling, too. Theyā€™re just looking for an excuse to ditch Europe - perhaps as a sacrifice to Putin.

        • OpenStars
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          12ā€¢13 days ago

          Ofc they wonā€™t SAY that - theyā€™ll talk about ā€œwhat a fantastic savings it will be, to not spend that moneyā€, and probably theyā€™ll work up gently to the point of sending US citizens to become meat shields like the North Koreans and so many others lately. But at each stage, it will always be what ā€œweā€ wanted to do - itā€™s ā€œourā€ idea to do it, I tell you!?

          img

    • @[email protected]
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      22ā€¢13 days ago

      I wouldnā€™t be surprised if he pulls the US out of NATO and the UN, since he hates both organizations.

        • @[email protected]
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          6ā€¢13 days ago

          Republicans will control Congress. Iā€™m sure theyā€™ll be fine rolling anything back.

        • @[email protected]
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          2ā€¢
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          12 days ago

          Do you not understand what the word ā€œdictatorā€ means? He told us what heā€™s going to be. Congress is irrelevant, and if it continues to exist, it will be to rubber stamp, at best.

      • @[email protected]
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        2ā€¢12 days ago

        If I recall correctly countries canā€™t withdrawl from the UN without their approval

        Problem is though that the un-united dystopia of america could cause issues in the UN

      • OBJECTION!
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        13 days ago

        The US pulling out of the UN would allow them to pass all sorts of cool stuff, like recognizing and admitting Palestine and calling for a ceasefire, recognizing the universal rights of children, and condemning the far-right, all of which the US used its veto power to stop against overwhelming support on the other side.

    • @[email protected]
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      12ā€¢13 days ago

      Itā€™s going to be a hell of a long 4 years, for America and the rest of the world. Damn.

    • sunzu2
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      7ā€¢13 days ago

      EU countries could start by carryng their weight in NATO.

      Ukraine war exposed EU as incoherent imbeciles unable to maintain a proper security posture, esp Germany and their Nazis nepo baby regimeā€¦ Straight šŸ¤”

      Vance behavior is out of line but you need to check that bravado that is not support by anything.

      Pay for your own defense and help Ukraine properlyā€¦ This is your fucking war that was caused by German being a Putinā€™s bitch. Industrial economy relying on a geopolitical adversery for energy while 40k American protect it from Russia for free. Classic parasite behavior.

      Mutti merkal so good šŸ¤”

      • @[email protected]
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        19ā€¢
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        13 days ago

        The EU has by now significantly outpaid the US, and out-supported the US in Ukraine. However, for historical reasons, it lacks certain items which Ukrainians badly need (tactical ballistic missiles and anti-missile defense, to bring good examples).

        On the matter of aircraft, I should especially emphasize that EU countries have given fighter aircraft, but the US has not. The US is currently attempting to get through the bureaucracy of approving a Swedish AWACS aircraft (with some US components) going to Ukraine.

        Educate thyself here, military people use this resource and approve of it:

        https://protectukrainenow.org/en/report

      • @[email protected]
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        7ā€¢13 days ago

        You offended a bunch of Germans here. Donā€™t forget the Americans are sitting in Germany mostly to bomb Syrian kids though, theyā€™re not defending Europe from anything.

        • sunzu2
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          1ā€¢13 days ago

          You offended a bunch of Germans here.

          Maybe they will get in their dense authority bootlicking brains that their political leadership has fumble Germanyā€™s geo politcal posture for benefit of oligarchā€™s who seed wealth came largely from slave labour during the third reich.

          These oligarchs sold German geopoltics our for cheap Russian gas, they obstruct proper policy vis-a-vis Russia because they want a ā€œrapprochementā€ jfcā€¦

          Nahhā€¦ instead they get butthurtā€¦ me country good šŸ¤”

          Pathetic.

          In US at least critically thinking people US ourselves for what we areā€¦ A global empire with all the bullshit that it entails. Having to dance around Germanā€™s sensibilities onlineā€¦

          Get a fucking clueā€¦

  • @[email protected]
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    116ā€¢13 days ago

    Holding Western stability hostage in the name of the oligarchs, good job voting everyoneā€¦

    • @[email protected]
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      39ā€¢13 days ago

      No no no, you see, we showed the democrats by not showing up to vote! /s

      uuughā€¦ I made myself sick quoting those jackass fucktards. (I did vote, and screamed until I was blue in the face to get people to vote. About every year.)

    • @[email protected]
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      16ā€¢13 days ago

      The sad part is that that also describes what the Democrats did to get us into this mess.

      • @[email protected]
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        10ā€¢13 days ago

        stfu, leftist extremists had one fucking chance to stop this from happening but they got fucking greedy.

        now we all have to pat the price.

        • @[email protected]
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          18ā€¢
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          13 days ago

          You have data to back that up I assume?

          Biden had polling in his hands that said Trump would get 400 electoral votes against him on the day he decided to run for a second term. Then he held on just long enough to make certain we would have no primary and be stuck with a candidate who couldnā€™t shake the stink of his presidency.

          Harris lost the popular vote by over 4-million votes. There arenā€™t that many ā€œleftist extremistsā€ in the whole damn country, and only a small subset of those wouldnā€™t have voted for Harris.

          The vast bulk of those who stayed home were left leaning apolitical normies. Most of the country fits in that group.

          • @[email protected]
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            12 days ago

            A candidate who couldnā€™t make it to the first primary in her last campaign for this position too! I felt what I could only describe as ā€œmeta-uneaseā€ about her.

            If I felt so unmotivated, how uninspired was everyone else?

            Also I think the racial rhetoric from the Dems is turning some Black voters off.

          • @[email protected]
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            12 days ago

            Harris lost the popular vote by over 4-million votes. There arenā€™t that many ā€œleftist extremistsā€ in the whole damn country, and only a small subset of those wouldnā€™t have voted for Harris.

            You have data to back that up I assume?

            Literally did the thing you criticized them for.

            • @[email protected]
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              12 days ago

              Best I could do without a definition for the stupid use of ā€œleftist extremistsā€ with no definition. My point is, there is zero evidence to blame this election on leftists of any stripe.

        • @[email protected]
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          5ā€¢12 days ago

          Dunno if it was enough to change the results, but I agree 100%. As a progressive myself: fuck these people.

  • @[email protected]
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    92ā€¢14 days ago

    Old article, btw. This is from Sept 2024. I get thatā€™s what he promised, and while I think heā€™s a complete asshat, letā€™s not discount that he and Trump said and will say anything to appear smart, capable, and as if they have a plan.

    Time will tell if this actually comes to pass, but Iā€™m not actually going to hold my breath for this one.

    • OtterOP
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      14 days ago

      Good note, I didnā€™t notice that in the original post. I edited the title

  • Jesus
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    75ā€¢13 days ago

    These autocrats have always wanted to drop NATO.

    Letā€™s not pretend like X is their reason. Supporting autocracy is their reason, and now theyā€™re trying to come up with excuses to get the public onboard.

    • @[email protected]
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      21ā€¢13 days ago

      Yes, but they need to repay the rat elon for all his support during the campaign. This might even be true

      • @[email protected]
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        23ā€¢
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        13 days ago

        So, NATO had a problematic operation, trying to establish (and coordinate the establishment of) guerilla stay-behind troops to use in the event of Soviet takeover - and the operation went especially problematic in Italy during the Years of Lead, where some of those guys associated with right-wing terrorists. The year was 1969 or so.

        Basing on this, how do I conclude anything about the NATO of today?

        Disclaimer: I was asked to hold an anti NATO speech during a protest event during a NATO summit. Being a moderately honest anarchist, I held a speech denouncing the practises seen in Afghanistan (the year was 2012), but emphasized that collective self defense is a valuable thing to have (a common attitude here in Eastern Europe), and added that if the alliance would bother doing what it says on the sticker, I would support it.

        NATO is an alliance of various countries. Some of them arenā€™t nice or democratic (classic example: Turkey). Mixed bag, and constantly changing. Membership in NATO is not a letter of indulgence for a member state to do anything - allies are obliged to help only if someone attacks a member state. If a NATO member attacks someone else, allies can ignore the affair or even oppose the member (example: Turkey recently bombed Kurdish troops in Syria so sloppily that threatened US troops shot down a Turkish drone).

        • @[email protected]
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          9ā€¢13 days ago

          ā€œAccording to several Western European researchers, the operation involved the use of assassination, psychological warfare, and false flag operations to delegitimize left-wing parties in Western European countries, and even went so far as to support anti-communist militias and right-wing terrorism as they tortured communists and assassinated them, such as Eduardo Mondlane in 1969ā€

          Based on this conclude what you want about the NATO of today.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steadfast_Defender_2024

          • @[email protected]
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            13 days ago

            Based on this, I conclude: the NATO of today is a mostly defensive alliance with some taints in its history.

            It is currently very busy doing a real job - opposing a conquering dictator named Vladimir Putin.

            I wish it luck, as long as it sticks to its declared purpose. If it oversteps, I will revise my opinion.

            • @[email protected]
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              7ā€¢13 days ago

              taints in its history

              Ooh, letā€™s play ā€œfind the dark historyā€! What better way to distract from todayā€™s issues and avoid talking about solutions for tomorrowā€™s problem!

              This is me agreeing with you, to be clear. The description ā€œtaints in its historyā€ is so ubiquitous as to be useless. Yes, acknowledging the errors of the past is important to learn from them and improve, but the focus needs to be on that learning and improving.

              The NATO has potential to be a force of security. In a modern world, conflict between peers is more destructive than ever and the returns on aggressive action are more strongly affected by the strength of the defense, such a union of forces can discourage attack by making it too unprofitable.

              Of course, that requires the union to actually stand united and the potential aggressor to be reasonable and motivated by the stateā€™s prosperity. Neither of those seem entirely guaranteed right nowā€¦

            • @[email protected]
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              13 days ago

              Your opinions are certainly grounded in reality at least. Itā€™s refreshing to read something sensible for a change.

            • @[email protected]
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              4ā€¢13 days ago

              It is currently very busy doing a real job

              Yes iā€™m sure they are doing a very busy job like they were in their tainted history (false flag operations to delegitimize left-wing parties in Western European countries)

              If it oversteps

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Response

              ā€œSeveral of the operations were along the coast in the borders between sea and land, and together with roads and populated areas. Surveillance, patrols, road control posts, vehicle inspection, control of air space, minesweeping, evacuation of civilians, and riot control were important part of the exercise.ā€

              • @[email protected]
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                13 days ago

                If you are sure about something, then bring evidence of considerable off-label activities.

                In response to your response about ā€œNordic Responseā€:

                Surveillance, patrols, road control posts, vehicle inspection, control of air space, minesweeping, evacuation of civilians, and riot control were important part of the exercise.ā€

                Those are realistic military duties in war time. Every military practises them. Where do you find a fault?

                An example from real life: the Ukrainian military has checkpoints on roads near the frontline. Moving with a vehicle, youā€™d expect to show papers, say a few words and maybe even show transported goods. The purpose? Finding reconnaisance / sabotage groups, which every competent enemy is expected to send. If an opponent doesnā€™t send recon or saboteurs, they are fools. If a military doesnā€™t learn how to deter those, theyā€™re fools.

                How does one learn? After dry reading in a classroom: one holds an excercise. Thereā€™s a home team and an opposing team. The home team checks, the opposing team infiltrates. Both teams report what they achieved, results get compared. If the blue team found the ā€œsaboteursā€, good. If the red team ā€œblew upā€ all bridges and pipelines in the area, people think hard about what they did wrong. If they donā€™t practise, they donā€™t get to think hard.

                • @[email protected]
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                  1ā€¢12 days ago

                  Those are realistic military duties in war time. Every military practises them. Where do you find a fault?

                  Where do i find a fault in conducting vehicle inspections and riot control at peace time, from an organization with a shady past involving false flag operations, psychological warfare and assassinations aimed at delegitimize left-wing parties.

                  Dunno buddy let me keep thinking

                  An example from real life: the Ukrainian military has checkpoints on roads near the frontline. Moving with a vehicle, youā€™d expect to show papers, say a few words and maybe even show transported goods. The purpose? Finding reconnaisance / sabotage groups, which every competent enemy is expected to send. If an opponent doesnā€™t send recon or saboteurs, they are fools. If a military doesnā€™t learn how to deter those, theyā€™re fools.

                  The ukrainian military also have checkpoints in the west border to make sure any male between 18 and 60 doesnā€™t leave the country so that they can be forced into war.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobilization_in_Ukraine

                  How does one learn? After dry reading in a classroom: one holds an excercise. Thereā€™s a home team and an opposing team. The home team checks, the opposing team infiltrates. Both teams report what they achieved, results get compared. If the blue team found the ā€œsaboteursā€, good. If the red team ā€œblew upā€ all bridges and pipelines in the area, people think hard about what they did wrong. If they donā€™t practise, they donā€™t get to think hard.

                  To me this sound like military rhetoric coming from a military man. You self defined yourself as being a moderately honest anarchist, i suggest you to keep doing your anarchist readings and re-read the works of Emma Goldman and Errico Malatesta.

                  https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/emma-goldman-preparedness-the-road-to-universal-slaughter

                  https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/errico-malatesta-the-european-war-and-the-international-workers-organization

              • sunzu2
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                1ā€¢12 days ago

                said a guy living under nato umbrella šŸ¤”

                How is that coffee in your posh good? living large?

          • @[email protected]
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            3ā€¢13 days ago

            Yeah dude! Tell them! Also tell them what was the normal operations at the time! And what are Russia and China doing today!!!

          • @[email protected]
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            2ā€¢12 days ago

            As if the US and a whole lot other countries are not doing Psy-Ops and other behind the scenes actions. pulling strings on the world stage.

      • @[email protected]
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        10ā€¢13 days ago

        You wanting the same thing JD Vance wants should trigger a warning in your brain before you say anything else.

  • @[email protected]
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    13 days ago

    As a European, i say, ā€œPlease go ahead.ā€ While I like the idea of Nato, I want my politicians to be forced to take action in creating an eu Military and not rely on Nato for defence.

    Also out of curiosity, will you guys be deporting immigrants like Elon Musk? Who invalidated their visa.

  • @[email protected]
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    66ā€¢
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    12 days ago

    And then you get idiots that will tell someone that is not American : ā€œuh why do you care so much about our election, itā€™s not your countryā€

    Well yes your (vice) president is starting to extort the rest of the world before even starting his mandateā€¦

    • @[email protected]
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      13ā€¢13 days ago

      An NATO without the US would be better for the whole world although I know that itā€™s not Vance intention

      • Maple Engineer
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        11 days ago

        Very much this.

        Just look at the TPP. The US tried to write the rules and the rest of the partners said, ā€œNo.ā€ The US said, ā€œScrew you guys, weā€™re going home!ā€ and stormed off in a snit assuming the deal would fall apart without them but it didnā€™t and it ended up being better without the US imperialist bullshit. Then, US farmers realized that they were getting fucked because the US wasnā€™t part of the deal ([1], [2], [3]) and the US came back demanding to be let in and the US imperialist bullshit restored to the agreement. Once again the partnerd said, ā€œNoā€.

        Letā€™s let the US leave whatever they want to leave, renegotiate everything without them, then only let them return under the new terms. The world will be a much better place in the end.

        EDIT: Trump ordered the US to withdraw from the TPP because the partners wouldnā€™t be bullied into accepting one-sided andi-competitive, anti-consumer protections for US industry and a dispute resolution process that favoured the US but that the US would ignore when it lost.

      • FlashMobOfOne
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        5ā€¢13 days ago

        This is the absolute weirdest thing about Trumpā€™s governance to me: how sometimes he ends up doing good things for terrible reasons, like when the US redeployed from Syria.

    • JackFrostNCola
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      4ā€¢12 days ago

      Also, we draw lines on maps and build borders but the environment doesnt care where pollution & emissions originate, everything spreads everywhere in the end.

    • @[email protected]
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      7ā€¢12 days ago

      Yup.

      In case anyone hasnā€™t noticed, the goalposts for norms have significantly shifted in the last decade. This is historically how it always begins.

      Buckle up. Protect yourself.

    • @[email protected]
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      12 days ago

      Yes, and if called out, they say it happens for freedom of speech, which is absurd given that the richest man on earth provides the infrastructure and has a large presence on the platform himself.

    • @[email protected]
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      12 days ago

      Yes, and if called out, they say it happens for freedom of speech, which is absurd given that the richest man on earth provides the infrastructure, (soon) influences the legislative rules and has a large presence on the platform himself.

  • @[email protected]
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    55ā€¢14 days ago

    Cool, no more need for American military bases in our countries then. Or sharing intelligence with them. Or propping up their arms industry.

    • @[email protected]
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      15ā€¢14 days ago

      Thereā€™s still that little issue of building up your own. Most EU countries have been demilitarizing for 30 years more and more, with the strategy being ā€œitā€™s a new world without wars, and also big daddy USA will protect us, and if not them, then Britain and France willā€. Britain has done an exit, and France alone is kinda lazy.

      • @[email protected]
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        23ā€¢14 days ago

        Most EU countries have been demilitarizing for 30 years more and more, with the strategy being "itā€™s a new world without wars, and also big daddy USA will protect us,l

        Thatā€™s not the Europe I see now and sounds like a US President trope. I would agree that post-Cold War that was the case, but Iā€™d say in the last decade at least, itā€™s not.

        But, genuine question as Iā€™m open to being wrong, saved this is an area that interests me, do you have sources for this?

        • @[email protected]
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          8ā€¢13 days ago

          Yeah, the person above isnā€™t being accurate at all.

          While here in the UK we rely heavily on the US for control of Trident, the US dropping NATO support would just require additional defence spending and closer alignment with Europe. If Trump is bought by Russia, Putin would see this as a Very Bad Thing, and would want to keep the US in the fold because even with the US NATO would likely steamroll Russia.

          The Trump dynamic is somewhat problematic, should it fester elsewhere in Europe. Globalisation was an important trait to maintain for the US, whereas most populist movements move towards buying local or supporting national interests above all else. Europe is largely self-sufficient, even in defence, so Trump would probably cut off huge numbers of imports/exports just to prop up Elonā€™s shitty cars.

          • @[email protected]
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            1ā€¢13 days ago

            Putin has been working to dismantle NATO for a long time though. Whether he is right or wrong, he clearly feels that the US pulling out of NATO is in his interest.

      • @[email protected]
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        5ā€¢14 days ago

        Britain has in no way done an exit. Going out of a trade and economic union has nothing to do with their military commitments.

    • RVGamer06
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      4ā€¢14 days ago

      People in Sardinia are going to be happy about this

    • @[email protected]
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      13 days ago

      That would work, if the EU hasnā€™t been sleeping on their defense, and relying on Daddy USA to protect Europe

  • @[email protected]
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    52ā€¢13 days ago

    This is why billionaires shouldnā€™t exist.

    The other thing I need to mention is that is that Elon Musk is far from the only billionaire with a massively disproportionate influence on elections and society. Or even the biggest. He is just the biggest attention whore of them all.

    • @Good_morning
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      I imagine him and other billionaires in a group chat with him word vomiting every time he has an idea of how to further fuck the USA.

    • @[email protected]
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      3ā€¢12 days ago

      Itā€™d be messed up for the government to do this even if he wasnā€™t a billionaire though. End corporations in bed with government.

  • @[email protected]
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    51ā€¢14 days ago

    The Republican vice presidential nominee and Ohio senator claimed in an interview with YouTuber Shawn Ryan that a top EU official had threatened to arrest the billionaire [Musk] if he allowed former President Trump back on X.

    ā€œSo what America should be saying is, if NATO wants us to continue supporting them and NATO wants us to continue to be a good participant in this military alliance, why donā€™t you respect American values and respect free speech?ā€ Vance asked. ā€œItā€™s insane that we would support a military alliance if that military alliance isnā€™t going to be pro-free speech. [ā€¦]

    ā€œIā€™m not going to go to some backwoods country and tell them how to live their lives,ā€ Vance added. ā€œBut European countries should theoretically share American values, especially about some very basic things like free speech.ā€

    The US ranked 26th in the world when it comes to free speech, with several members of the European Union higher up the list,Ā according to the 2024 Global Expression Report.

    If anyone is interested these countries are ahead of the USA from 1-25: Denmark Switzerland Sweden Belgium Estonia Norway Finland Ireland Germany Iceland Portugal Austria New Zealand Canada Argentina Spain Czech Republic Italy Latvia Costa Rica Uruguay France Dominican Republic Netherlands Vanuatu

    • @[email protected]
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      26ā€¢14 days ago

      Insult Musk on Twitter, wait until posts are censored, sue X for not having freedom of speech. Howā€™s that for American values?

      • exu
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        6ā€¢14 days ago

        Freedom of speech only applies against the government. Private companies are free to throw you off their platforms for any reason or no reason at all.

        • @[email protected]
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          12 days ago

          Well if he isnā€™t already, itā€™s only a matter of time before Musk is part of the government (ugh goddammit I want to vomit), and I would not put it past them to attempt to make X some kind of ā€œofficialā€ government app. Tons of money for Musk, and the US government now controls the data of hundreds of millions of users, as well as complete control over what is and isnā€™t shown on the site.

          See how easy it is to come up with this shit? Fascism is easy mode for amoral sociopaths.

      • @[email protected]
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        5ā€¢13 days ago

        Also threaten to pull broadcast licenses for any news agency that looks at you with squinting eyes. Yay freedom of speech.

  • @[email protected]
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    49ā€¢14 days ago

    So, the US wants to lose the only influence it actually has on Europe?

    I say go for it.

    • sunzu2
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      3ā€¢13 days ago

      40k Us troops to stationed in Germany alone to defend Europe from Russia who is slaughtering ukrianiansā€¦ Instead of you knowā€¦

      Sure US has no influenceā€¦

      How do you think it costs US taxpyer?

        • sunzu2
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          2ā€¢13 days ago

          Must be nice being a German when Americans pays for your shit.

          Fucking parasites.

          • @[email protected]
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            10ā€¢13 days ago

            Yeah because a magic border makes it so that things donā€™t affect all of us. Isnā€™t that wonderful?

            I legit donā€™t understand how anyone can think so small.

            If a fire starts in a city where everyone has your attitude, how long before it all burns down?

            Whether we like it or not, borders arenā€™t magical lines that protect us from the damage done behind one of those lines. Humanity is responsible for the wellbeing of humanity. No silly little line is going to change that.

            Imagine the consequences weā€™d still be suffering (yes, we. All of us) if the US hadnā€™t joined in WWII.

            I honestly donā€™t understand how anyone can think of their fellow humans as parasites. Weā€™re all in this together. One big ego with enough support can destroy all of our lives and throw us back into the dark ages.

            We have thousands of years of history to guide us. Look into it.

            • @[email protected]
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              1ā€¢12 days ago

              Sure, but itā€™s not the USā€™s job to protect the world. Iā€™m a US citizen, and Iā€™m not a fan of us spending ~5x vs Germany on defense, especially when Germany is such an economic powerhouse in the EU.

              I would really like to cut defense spending, but for that to happen, other NATO countries need to increase their defense spending. I absolutely think we should stay in NATO (for the reasons you stated), but NATO is supposed to be an alliance, not a set of countries protected by the US. Yes, itā€™s in our interest to protect the EU, but itā€™s also in the EUā€™s interest to protect the US. We should have each otherā€™s back.

              • @[email protected]
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                1ā€¢12 days ago

                No, they donā€™t. The US military spending far outpaces any other country. The US spends more than the next 10 countries combined! You donā€™t ā€œneedā€ that much spending, but your GDP is happy for that extra trillion every year that some day will trickle down for sure wink wink.

                In summary, your rhetoric is pure propaganda of conservative talking points, unfortunately.

                • @[email protected]
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                  1ā€¢12 days ago

                  Itā€™s really not.

                  While I agree we need to drastically reduce military spending, that decision has consequences. Weā€™d need to shut down foreign bases, reduce naval presence around the globe, and increase our reliance on reserves instead of standing military. If we do that, thatā€™ll embolden other countries (like China, Iran, and Russia) to fill that void unless other partners step up.

                  Military spending (and deficit spending in general) is a major issue Iā€™m concerned about, and Iā€™m unhappy with both major parties here. I like Trumpā€™s pressure on the EU to step up their part, but I donā€™t like his increases to military spending. I like Bidenā€™s and Harris focus on social programs instead of military spending, but I donā€™t like their lack of cuts. Neither party is actually interested in turning swords into plow shears, they just court the military industrial complex differently.

                  We need to increase taxes and cut spending, yet both parties seem to do the opposite.

            • sunzu2
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              1ā€¢12 days ago

              solid understanding how european security works right here ;)

      • @[email protected]
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        7ā€¢
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        13 days ago

        The US WANTS to be in those bases because it gives them a lot of soft power in foreign relationships, and a base to project power in the part of the world.

        If the US gives up NATO, you can also kiss goodbye to any sort of influence on the European countries decision making, as well as any resemblance of military logistic in that part of the world (as well as any sales of military equipment to European countries as itā€™s starting to happen, with many countries investing in their own military industrial complexes). This is why in the past 50 years, regardless of the party, every single US president supported NATO regardless of spendings. It took a moron to say they want out

        • AreaSIX
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          3ā€¢13 days ago

          The US WANTS to be in those bases because it gives them a lot of soft power in foreign relationships

          Iā€™d say that military bases within European countries is the definition of projecting hard power. If 40 000 soldiers in a military base are called ā€˜soft powerā€™, whatā€™s hard power then? Nuking the city?

          • @[email protected]
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            1ā€¢12 days ago

            40k really isnā€™t that many, especially when it comes to war. That said, those bases can likely handle a lot higher population, which would rapidly increase in wartime.

        • sunzu2
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          1ā€¢12 days ago

          After war in urkaine started why did germany authorize +7k surge?

          Asking for a friendā€¦

          So much cope and denial in this thread haha

          pathetic

  • @[email protected]
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    49ā€¢
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    14 days ago

    This is expected. A hallmark of fascism is state capitalism ā€” a fusion of the corporation and the state ā€” with corporations administered more like org units of the fascist party.

    Many of us have been saying that this is the natural end state of capitalism all along, if itā€™s allowed to run its course.

    • @[email protected]
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      1ā€¢14 days ago

      Problem is that itā€™s hurting the economy, meaning that if your hypothesis is right, capitalism collapses rather quickly if left on itā€™s on devices.

        • @[email protected]
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          1ā€¢13 days ago

          Yeah thatā€™s exactly what I mean. Itā€™s the best example that state capitalism is extremely destructive and cannibalizing the economy.

              • sunzu2
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                5ā€¢13 days ago

                I am sure as fuck ainā€™t worried about China but pretending like they didnā€™t build a functioning economy whatever it maybe is just childish

      • @[email protected]
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        1ā€¢
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        12 days ago

        Yeah, but you just distract the idiots with ā€œillegalā€ immigrants, and abortion, and perceived ā€œenemies withinā€, etc. etc.

        It works every single time.

        • @[email protected]
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          1ā€¢12 days ago

          It only ever works for a decade or two before it obliterates the economy every single time.