If Luigi dies, he won’t be the only one
They’re already being so awful at such a massive scale that it’s highly unlikely something similar won’t happen again. The worse they are to Luigi, the more fuel they throw on the fire that they created.
It’s always an option for them to stop doing terrible things systemically. They’re the ones who control that, and it’s up to them to do it.
What is the intent of the protest though? What would be the demands?
To stop fucking killing us for money
Well with some more Luigis the problems would be solved. But protest etc? I guess Republicans showed you how riots works and how dirty the methods are. They laugh about protesters.
Please please please go read some history about the black and women’s rights movements. Please go read some history about the cold war. The Vietnam war.
Please please please stop spreading this defeatist rhetoric that we can’t accomplish anything with our voices.
Please Go read some German history and some history about holocaust and Concentration camps. Read about the shit trump already done and what he still wanna do. Well maybe do a visit at your American concentration camp called Guantanamo…
Read about how the Jews were hunted down back then and then sent on by train… Yes, well with you it’s immigrants (i.e. everyone else lol ) and instead of going by train, they go by military airplanes.
That’s hyperbole, not a great message.
That’s not really hyperbolic when you take a look at the American healthcare system.
People are letting the elites know that we are displeased with the status quo.
The social contract is broken. They don’t have to pretend to give any fucks about fuxking working people over and we don’t have to pretend that we don’t cheer when they die esp under such poetic justice circumstances.
It is a dog eat dog world, always has been really. People are waking up to the fact that material conditions imposed on the working people are becoming untenable.
That’s not really a demand though.
Protests can’t just express general satisfaction.
Literally what protest do and more.
That’s just not true.
Anyone who’s ever organised a protest will tell you that you need a clear demand.
You can’t tell other people how to protest.
Well no but I can observe other protests and comment on what works well and what doesn’t.
This is more about sending a message imho
Sure ok.
I guess the point that I’m making is that protests that do not have a clear and concise demand are not really going to send a message to the people who need to hear it.
Free Luigi or nullify the charges.
Universal healthcare!
I don’t think that’s really achievable with the current political landscape.
I think you’re going to dismiss anything that isn’t “stay home”.
Pretty much, because when you really nail down what you’re protesting about, you want exemptions from the law for people you like, which is just bonkers frankly.
Easy on the leather there chief… You wouldn’t want to damage daddy’s jackboot too much
Any time you simplify someone else’s argument to “things you don’t like” or “people you like”, then you’re deliberately ignoring their reasoning for liking/disliking it. Hand waving it away as bonkers feelings is intellectually dishonest.
So in this case, if you like somebody who does the thing, and want anyone who does that to be exempted… then you just want the law to be different. And we have a few ways of accomplishing that.
Thank you for coming out and saying it instead of continuing to pretend that there can be some protest you might consider valid under any circumstances.
Was I pretending?
I really just want people to think about what they actually want. Lemmy doesn’t have much self awareness on this issue.
You can’t complain about Trump not facing justice but simultaneously want Luigi to walk.
Luigi is a hero, but he needs to face trial and should be convicted if there is sufficient evidence.
You can’t complain about Trump not facing justice but simultaneously want Luigi to walk.
Only if you can’t tell the difference between blatant corruption and jury nullification.
He’s not going to be epsteined. Epstein got epsteined because he knew too fucking much. Luigi doesn’t know anything more I do, his use for the ruling class now is example.
I think quite simply, it makes him look crazy.
That, and it is torture. Those suits are cold, like you are in danger of hypothermia at all times cold.
I think they actually want to protect him because if he dies somehow, he’ll become martyr.
I think it’s a mix of powerful people wanting him dead to avoid using a trial as a platform for his beliefs along with the chance he is found not guilty by a sympathetic jury.
Exactly. The turtle suit and “suicide watch” is because you get no blankets, the suit isnt particularly comfy, and a guard gets to bug you constantly to “check on you”. It’s harassment, plain and simple. They don’t want to off him, they want to make him miserable.
Hard disagree. If he goes on trial and is acquitted (or the jury is hung), that puts a target on all their backs. This is potentially much more dangerous than Epstein.
hmm, that’s also right, but I find it hard to believe he would be acquitted
I have no idea why he was arrested.
We were chilling on my yacht in the Mediterranean that day. Tupac brought the blunts.
Up to the jury, isn’t it?
Sure but if his peers decide he gets a reduced sentence or walks, he may become a symbol of much much more. Theyd prefer he “suicides himself”.
Yeah more likely he’ll get the Aaron Swartz treatment.
yea…
So they’re basically low-grade torturing him just because they can?
Disgusting.
Not low grade, its straight up actual torture.
Solitary confinement (which he has been put in unprompted multiple times) can make a person go insane, sleeping on a concrete floor with a back that had to be reconstructed can and will cause irreversible damage.
Just because it isn’t visible damage, does not make it a lesser form of torture.
Sounds like he must have been right about something.
I’m sure the CEO has been replaced after his death, so the same should happen with Luigi in the event that happens.
Doesn’t seem like we’ve had any copycats yet despite how many healthcare CEOs out there?
They all hired private security, many left the country and almost all are avoiding appearing in public or having their names known.
Ooh nice, chase everyone off to their own private islands.
Slightly ahead of schedule.
Epstein knew too much. Luigi is just hot.
People need to show up outside the courthouse and educate anyone who enters about jury nullification
Knowing about jury nullification is grounds to get you off the jury. Juries are already instructed they have that choice (in different words)
It’s enough to get you excluded from the jury, but if you are already chosen you deserve to be told explicitly: you can nullify this prosecution if you think it is wrongful
Every legal mind has been very clear that jurors should not be told about it; people who know about nullification explicitly rely more on their feelings than evidence and are more easily fooled by sympathetic defendants and vice versa. Nullification works both ways, you could convinct without reasonable doubt or evidence, which is also not black and white.
Nullification exists simply because jurors can’t be prosecuted for getting it wrong, so they can do whatever they want. But if you join intending to nullify, you technically commited purgery when you swore to “uphold the law”. It’s a very grey area because we technically want jurors to make informed and fair decisions, not selfish ones. Courts have been clear it shouldn’t be explicitly mentioned, but they also haven’t banned it because they believe in the idea of everyone coming to the conclusion the law doesn’t apply/he isn’t guilty of the crime despite clearly doing the thing, rather than declaring him “guilty without punishment”. It would be difficult to ban or make a law against this too. They’re just saying the law doesn’t apply in this case which is reasonable.
Of course in the case of luigi I would totally agree with them letting him walk, but nullification is a fragile thing, especially for those who need to be told directly they have that power. Plus, luigi will at best get a reduced sentence like in crimes of “passion” or for being in a crisis, he likely isn’t going to walk.
Edit: I think we can get banned for discussing this, i don’t know anymore.
It’s not perjury because nullification is part of the laws you’re upholding.
Nullification is not a law. It’s a hole in the law of 2 other laws
- juries can’t get in trouble for making the wrong choice
- can’t be tried twice for the same crime.
As we are always sure to err, we should err in the direction of mercy.
Interesting points. I would argue that it can’t be perjury if you swore your oath before you knew about nullification.
Simple. If ever questioned after by a judge:
“When asked if I knew about jury nullification, you must understand. I personally believe the only way to know something is to experience it firsthand. And so before, I did not know about jury nullification. Now, NOW your honor. NOW I know about jury nullification.”
I agree!
Telling others to not uphold the law can probably get you in trouble too so it would be hard to convince others. It could work (both ways) if everyone is told after the oath, and they all individually decide to do it.
This is jury tampering. As long as violence is not involved, it is only a misdemeanor punishable by a $1000 fine in my state
Ew, I totally would never crowdfund for that kind of behavior. We should share it around if anything so depraved were ever to surface so we never accidentally support doing such things. Despicable.
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Breaking news: courts unable to find jurors for Mangione case after citizens informed how the law works
Sounds like a plan.
I just floated the idea of flying to protest to my partner. 21st is a Friday. We could make it a weekend trip and be stupid tourists (we’ve each been multiple times, so there’s really no motivation to go other than Luigi). We’ll see what she says.
She can’t take time off work. We’re not going.
I’d totally go protest, but I also can’t get time off of work. I’ll just continue to not pay medical bills as my own form of protest. Insurance can pry the money out of my cold, dead hands.
Insurance can pry the money out of my cold, dead hands.
I actually think that’s United Health Care’s motto: “We’ll pry the money from your cold, dead hands.”
If I lived anywhere near New York I’d be there
Like they’re gonna be able to make Saint Luigi disappear.
Lol.
They are keeping social media pretty tidy but pepperidge farm remembers
Hey! Don’t leave my man alone, brothers, sisters and dear others. Show him we care for him and show him that he did nothing strange to any respectable human being. Greetings from outside the USA.
They are concerned that Conviction gonna inflame the plebs lol
