I am asking myself if the Canadian population knows what that means to them. At irregular intervals, the EU is given more powers in order to have more power. There is currently a debate about whether the 27 armies should be converted into a European army. This would also affect you if you are part of the EU. In many areas, Canada would lose its powers and passing them on to the EU. This can be seen very clearly in financial policy. You would have to adopt the Euro as your currency and the European Central Bank would make interest rate policy. Of course there are more positive things, but you have to understand and accept that you would lose some of your independence.
The EU needs to change quickly if it wants to survive. All democracies are under pressure. As a European I beg Canadians to focus less on joining us and more on US blue states to join and side democracy alongside Canada. Try to built an North American democratic union. Not all Americans like Trump…give them a choice to pick sth. else.
I’m a Canadian that’s lived in the EU, and then moved to the UK just. when they Brexited. Your statements here are inaccurate.
At irregular intervals, the EU is given more powers in order to have more power.
The EU is a collection of independent states who, through an [ever-evolving complex array of treaties](https:// commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Supranational_European_Borties.svg) between those states have formed a cohesive union to pursue their collective interests. Each state makes its own decision to become a party to a treaty or not, and so what you might see as a singular union from the outside is actually a patchwork of agreements when you look closer.
At no point is the EU “given” power, nor is it taken. However, in the interests of the union in general, many of these treaties have non-negotiable requirements. Notoriously, membership in the customs union requires the freedom of movement, goods, and capital. Additionally, there’s considerable pressure to applying members to join the Eurozone as that simplifies a lot
There is currently a debate about whether the 27 armies should be converted into a European army.
This is a great illustration of my point above. The EU does not have its own standing army. Instead, the member states have not seen any value in forming one… that is until recently when Russians started invading nations on its borders and the cohesive structure of NATO started falling apart. Now people are talking about it, and if the idea proves workable, some of the EU states will likely propose and possibly sign a treaty. It is highly unlikely that membership in the EU would automatically include membership in a defence union.
Canada would lose its powers and passing them on to the EU.
This is sort of true, but no more so than how we’ve given up our rights with other treaties. For example, were Canada to join the Schengen treaty, we’d have to allow passport-free access from Schengen member countries, in exchange for our rights to do the same. To reference a treaty you might be more familiar with, under NAFTA, Canada enjoyed a stable market for its oil exports to the US, but under that treaty, Canada’s hands were tied when looking for non-US markets for that same oil. Like any treaty, it’s a relationship with give-and-take, hopefully to the mutual benefit of both parties.
You would have to adopt the Euro as your currency and the European Central Bank would make interest rate policy.
This is likely, though as a member of the EU and Eurozone, Canada would have seats in the European Parliament, respresentation in the the European Commission, and would therefore have some influence on things like interest rate policy.
Conversely, consider the benefits of joining the Euro vs. our current situation where our currency is effectively tied to the US dollar because our economies are so tightly coupled. Consider the implications of tariff-free trade without currency conversions between 27 rich countries.
Of course there are more positive things, but you have to understand and accept that you would lose some of your independence.
This is the classic eurosceptic line: “but muh indententz!” It’s a claim made in a vacuum of ignorance about how the world actually functions.
All EU member states are independent for value of that term. Canada is economically and politically dominated by the US. They’ve bullied our government, crippled our industries, and even killed national projects like the Avro Arrow, and yet we still think of ourselves as “independent”.
We live in a community of nations, and with that comes living with the understanding that we can’t just invade other countries and take whatever resources we like. That’s a restriction on our independence, but we don’t see it that way because it’s normalised. Similarly, Italy can’t stop Germans from moving to Milan and setting up sausage restaurants, and the Dutch can’t sell their own feta-like cheese and call it “feta” because it wasn’t made in Greece. Sure that’s an encroachment on their “independence”, but it’s a move that makes sense when the alternative is allowing Italians to live in France, or for the Dutch to secure the rights to the name “gouda” in the markets of 27 member states.
It’s not about giving away your independence. It’s about forming a super-state with like-minded nations to grow your power as a collective and making that decision as an independent state.
I’ve lived in Vancouver, Ottawa, Toronto, Amsterdam, London, and Cambridge. I watched the UK tear itself from the Union and have seen first hand what a catastrophic act of self-harm that was, all in the name of “independence”. The UK is now poorer, more xenophobic, and less safe. Were Canada ever offered the opportunity to join the EU, I should hope that we’d do better than the Brits.
At no point is the EU “given” power, nor is it taken. However, in the interests of the union in general, many of these treaties have non-negotiable requirements.
If you watch the history of the EU and its predecessor and you will see that the EU became more powerful. It started with a coal and steel union and now it is a defense, free trade, law, financial, and securing democracy partnership. Of course this was implemented because the members wanted it, but I think this will end in a United States of the EU. I do not have a problem with it, but many people (especially the people that are political disenchantment) would not like it.
It is highly unlikely that membership in the EU would automatically include membership in a defence union.
The European Parliament discusses this topic because of Manfred Weber the chairman of the biggest group EPP. Weber showed its interest in this topic in the German political talkshow of Martin Lanz. The biggest advocate of a European army is Macron the French president. He does have a other view of a European army as Weber, but after trying to create a more European army structure for many years he signaled to be willing to talk about it.
Canada would have seats in the European Parliament, respresentation in the the European Commission, and would therefore have some influence on things like interest rate policy.
That is true but the European liberals Renew Europe are not the biggest group in the Parliament. Macrons party lost so many voters to Le Pen (right extremist). The German SPD and Greens lost many voters to the conservative parties. Sweden and Austria shifted to the right as well. The parliament shifted to the right and I think it would not be changed by the Canadians EU election results. The new Icelandic government has now announced that it will hold a referendum on the issue of EU membership by 2027. The polls in Norway becoming more and more positive about joining the EU. This could shift the EP to the left and the centre.
They’ve bullied our government, crippled our industries, and even killed national projects like the Avro Arrow, and yet we still think of ourselves as “independent”.
I do not have enough knowledge about the Canadian history of politics.
My hot take is that we need more federation and coalition-building, not less. That’s why I would absolutely join the EU in an instant.
Agree completely on the federalization, but disagree on actually joining the EU.
Frankly, we’re not ready for it. Our industries and regulations have far more in common with the US than the EU, and we’ll need a serious transition period to match their standards. While I do think in the long term such standards are a good thing, it would be economically damaging in the severe in the short term.
That said, I think the best would be to slowly match their regulations with the hope of joining the EU, without actually committing to it in the short term, but to close our relations with them in the meantime and leave the option open if it becomes more advantageous later on. Matching regulations with a fair and reliable trading partner always helps, not to mention that their regulations are far healthier and environmentally friendly.
I’m not versed at all in those matters. I trust what you say is correct, and I agree wholeheartedly.
Absolutely, agreed. The issue here is that Canada may not qualify, as we’re North American rather than European. (While it’s true that we’re right next to Greenland and the French territory of Saint Pierre and Miquelon, neither territory is part of the EU but rather both are considers “overseas” territories of EU members, so being next to them doesn’t help extend the definition of “European”.)
Also see https://www.europarl.europa.eu/enlargement/briefings/23a2/_en.htm - Morocco is just below Spain and Portugal as you can see on this map, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco#/media/File:Morocco_(orthographic_projection,_WS_claimed).svg - but it was rejected membership in the European Communities. Sadly, based on geographical criteria alone, the case for Canada being “European” is much weaker than Morocco or Turkey.
Back in the day, I had high hopes that the CPTPP would evolve into something similar to the EU with its own version of Schengen.
Thank you for clearing that up,
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But seriously, I hope we jump in some kind of equivalent EU-oriented wagon.
America is threatening to take away 100% of Canada’s independence. Joining the EU would be in Canada’s best interest, although I don’t think it will happen (hope I’m wrong though).
We could still move in that direction and gain benefits without full blown membership. Increased trade with decreased trade barriers, defensive pact, etc.
I like this idea. If we’re just associating rather than becoming full members, that’d also give us more leverage on things like (for example) not adopting the Euro.
Fairly inexperienced with international finance, but wouldn’t adopting a stronger currency be good for Canada? We would lose part of our canadian-ness by not having a loonie, toonie, etc, but wouldn’t having the euro mean buying goods internationally would be favourable for us?
The main thing we’d lose is the autonomy to manage our own economy. Given that’s something we’ve handled especially well resulting in impressive economic stability in spite of global events, it’s not a thing to be sacrificed lightly - or at all.
The main benefit of joining the Eurozone is tight economic integration that lets member nations share the larger group’s economic stability. That benefit is never going to substantively materialize for a nation physically separated by an ocean. But we’d still be losing the right to decide how many power coupons we print, directly regulate our own banks, and set interest rates/inflation targets.
I’m open to other forms of EU association, but the Eurozone is a solid hell no.
Oh, I agree! I just wanted to say if that was the sole stumbling block to moving closer to the EU, then your idea would prevent that from blocking everything else.
Several countries in the EU does not have the euro.
The european army is probably never going to exist, instead a coalition will, which is much better anyways (so Orban can’t fuck things up, for example).
In the EU, everything is negotiable except the free trade and free movement (maybe some more, I’m not a specialist)!
There were exceptions when the EU was formed for things like currency, but I don’t think they’re allowing that anymore. If the UK wanted to rejoin, they’d have to switch to the Euro - they had a lot of favourable exceptions made for them to be in the EU in the first place, and they just gave them up.
In the EU, everything is negotiable except the free trade and free movement
That is not right. Every country must transpose all EU directives into national law. If they fail to do so, they have to pay fines.
Example
The delayed implementation of the EU directive on the protection of whistleblowers into national law is costing Germany dearly. On Thursday, the European Court of Justice (ECJ) ordered Germany to pay a fine of 34 million euros to the EU for breaching its obligations. The Luxembourg judges justified the move with the importance of the high level of protection required by the directive for whistleblowers who report breaches of EU law.
…
With its ruling in case C-149/23, the ECJ is complying with a complaint filed by the EU Commission in February 2023. The member states were actually obliged to take the necessary measures to legally comply with the provisions of the directive by the end of 2021. The German government was unable to notify the Commission of implementation because the black-red coalition initially failed to agree on a common line. At the time, the SPD wanted the law to also apply to infringements of German law. This was not just in areas such as financial services and tenders, product and food safety, data protection, the environment and health, which are regulated throughout the EU. CDU and CSU were against it.
I would truly welcome membership in the EU. As far as the military is concerned, being all for one is something is very much in keeping with most Canadian’s feelings when it comes to our allies. On another post a European person declared that Canadians are the Golden Retrievers of the world!
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