This needs to happen with Appl too. AppleTV/Safari/Messages/etc app for MacOS + SIP my ass. Its not integral and if you’ve made it so you need to unmake it so, along with other bundled crap. SIP should literally refer to that and only that in aggregate which is necessary to ensure the system is able to function, not per se function in an un-overruleable way for the maker.
Don’t forget TV brands like samsung and LG who force some apps down your throat even if you don’t want them. You can’t remove those apps. Amazon is even worse with their firetv devices, they just install apps on your behalf that you can’t remove. We don’t own anything anymore.
Ya but I can just use a box and not have the TV itself connected to the internet and you can have it in gaming mode so you basically never see the splash screen with all tha crap
I do this as well, but the smart TV bullshit on my Vizio constantly switches itself back on.
I have a button on my remote now that fixes my input by switching to the box in one fell swoop because this happens so much. There is no setting to stop this, as I already have it set to not change the input.
Yes. They should allow removing apps like Safari and, as you said, Apple TV, iMessage, and other non-basic (on a computer) utilities, then downloading them again from the App Store.
On an unrelated note, I also turn off SIP to change the icons of system apps.
Wait Windows users are allowed to manage their software ?!? Get out of town.
As a certified windows user, can confirm, I do not have free will to install anything
yes, and it’s easier than linux
checks notes Registry editing?
You can remove Windows completely from your life with very little effort, no matter where you live and it’s free! In the world of today there is no need whatsoever for that exploitive and in short bad OS anymore.
unless you want your programs to run
I mean some stuff is still running windows 98. What programs are you really needing to run?
Same ol Adobe and Microsoft products
God I love people that pretend switching to Linux is for everyone. They’re the same dipshits that install Mint on their grandmothers machine without asking, then get defensive when she takes issue with it.
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I want to say that there’s no way people would install Linux without consent on someone else’s machine, but people have done crazier things.
I got a good one. That mandatory garbage Cricut software.
I think almost every Microsoft product has a FOSS alternative (that works in windows usually too) if you want to get away from them. GamePass/The Xbox app/Windows store doesn’t, but that’s almost it. If there isn’t an alternative, it’s not unlikely that it’ll work through WINE. What software specifically are you looking for?
Microsoft office and games with anticheat are two big categories.
There are alternatives for office. LibreOffice, which has been around forever.
As for anti-cheat, yeah that’s up to the devs. Easy Anti-cheat supports Linux in the latest version, but it requires developers to implement it. I’ve been playing Hunt Showdown and it’s fine. Counterstrike obviously works. I’d say on average, most anti-cheat is fine. It does require actual effort on the devs though, unlike games that just run with WINE/Proton totally fine most of the time without them doing anything.
LibreOffice is great if you don’t need perfect compatibility with Microsoft office. If you do, the only good option is, well Microsoft Office.
Ableton Live with plugins is osx or windows. Windows if you want custom hardware in any meaningful sense.
Which one? apache2? mysql? php-fpm? python? ftp? smb? nodejs?
Not sure about you, but I’m using those to make my living.
This comment is so out of touch.
I work in CAD and 3D printing and I’d be completely dead in the water if I used Linux.
No fusion 360, no cura
I bet there are plenty of other apps that I rely on that are not available on Linux.
I’m not some sort of Windows fanboy either. I’m disgusted with their action in the recent years.
I run Linux on my home server, but not my main computing machine
Let’s be realistic here, your experience is not universal
To be fair, PrusaSlicer and its derivatives do have native Linux support. And you can use Onshape from the browser on Linux just fine and it is honestly really good. I do a lot of this stuff too
I’m not an expert, but I really doubt that most open source software can compete with the features and support of enterprise products. In almost every industry there are FOSS alternatives to professional software, but they mostly get ignored. If you really could pump out the same quality of work as quickly, I don’t think that most companies would forego the opportunity to save some money on licensing fees.
Well, first off I wasn’t presenting a “FOSS first” argument here. Onshape is a closed-source browser based CAD software but it works really well and I enjoy it. PrusaSlicer IS FOSS, but it is developed by the folks at Prusa who build the Prusa i3 printers - it is widely considered to be the “standard” for 3D printing slicers, better than CURA for sure.
Second off, this argument has an element of truth but kind of misses the plot. It is DEFINITELY possible for FOSS to be better and widely used and there are a couple of examples. I don’t have a ton of time right now but just for fun I’ll list a few. Blender is a great one, don’t really need to explain how good it is. Also, KiCAD is really good these days too, second only to Altium. There are many more as well!
I agree that’s it’s possible, and hopefully it gets to be more common in the future. It’s hard to compete with professional software since they often have large full-time dev and support teams, but there is a handful of examples of FOSS software that debatably outperform the competition.
Agreed, I hate how people blindly use Windows because “that’s what my shitty HP laptop shipped with”
…unless you have a machine that doesn’t run linux well.
If it’s been a while you could try again as the kernel gets updated with support for various hardware.
One of my laptops was awful with Linux but after a good while I tried reinstalling a fresh distro and it ran like a dream.
Yeah. Many of the complaints surrounding Linux and hardware are BS. But complaints about Linux running well on cutting edge hardware are often founded.
Linux devs can only stary supporting new hardware once they have access to it or to accurate specs. Often, this is only once the hardware has been released.
But 6-month old, and moreso 1-year old hardware? Generally works like a (good) dream.
This is why hardware vendors that design for Linux are so important (thanks, System 76!).
Yeah. I was thinking of a particular gaming laptop, which does run almost perfectly with the latest kernels. But it’s not all the way there yet.
As in the PC has some hardware which only has proprietary drivers from the manufacturer?
Or newer open source drivers that are buggy or missing features.
Sort of?
I run Visual Studio Enterprise, no, VS Code is not sufficient for some needs.
I have to edit complex PDFs in Adobe. Free, open source readers are not enough.
Even the best linux RDP or WebRTC or otherwise apps still don’t seem to provide quite the same speed as RDP into windows hosts/servers.
I have to use Teams daily across multiple orgs, and the seemingly discontinued Linux support in lieu of the less-featured browser app / PWA just doesn’t fly.
I’ve found building windows apps on Linux, while seemingly supposed to be net similar, often times do not turn out right.
Need full featured O365 to integrate with your work’s O365? No go. Closest is installing edge on Linux and using the web version, which is subpar.
I hate windows, I use Linux when I can, but to say you can remove it from your life with very little effort is a blanket statement that is just unrealistic for many. To say there is no need is just off base.
Source: I use Windows, PopOS, KDE, Mint, and that apple OS thing that I hate more than Windows.
I agree it’s very easy and takes very little force to remove windows from your life. Adopting another OS in the other hand…
Like that would fix the OS.
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Too many of the programs I use are Windows only.
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I use many proprietary pieces of software that are only available for Windows.
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Tell that to someone that uses fusion 360 to earn their living.
If you are just going to Facebook and downloading movies and stuff sure…
Linux is great for my home server, terrible for my main machine.
It runs just fine https://github.com/cryinkfly/Autodesk-Fusion-360-for-Linux
Your problem is using your personal machine for work.
Why the hell would I buy an entire different machine just for web browsing and games? Should also get a third one for porn? Lol
It’s great that Linux works for you but you need to realize that it does not work for everyone yet. Your experience is not the same as everyone else’s. If I could run every application I need on Linux I would switch today. I am not happy about my dependence on Windows, but I live in reality
But can you remove Windows from Windows?
Delete system 32
Nice try, but you need permission from SYSTEM to delete system32.
Throw a brick at Windows to brick it.
You need to triforce it.
Does this also impact Apple, will they also need to allow removing Safari? If yes, is it possible that they might allow removing other things like iMessage and Apple TV?
On macOS it’s always been possible to remove built in apps. To do so now though requires disabling SIP and mounting as R/W. Then you can use something like this to remove all traces https://freemacsoft.net/appcleaner/
They regenerate after an update, there is also a way to remove Edge on Windows by manually running the uninstaller from the terminal with some options, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s not easy and you can’t just uninstall it like any other app.
there is also a way to remove Edge on Windows by manually running the uninstaller from the terminal with some options
Well to this statement, no. Microsoft disabled that method with the release of 22H2. Attempting to do so now does nothing. I was aware of this and it was shared on Reddit and other forums all the time until it stopped working. In fact, just six months ago people were sharing it on Reddit and realized it wasn’t working. https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/140d0y2/how_do_i_uninstall_microsoft_edge/
I do agree with the sentiment. It should be easy to uninstall these apps.
Manually removing the files is still an option 😈
I don’t understand why they won’t allow it even with the command line. People who hate Edge and want to uninstall it to free up disk space should be able to. They will never use it anyway (max accidentally).
If even MS themselves calls it “benefits”, why not enable it for all by default?
Because fuck you.
Why is this a topic at all? Don’t you own your machine?
I’m surprised I own my shoes at this point. Any tech bros wanna take care of that with an app?
The year is 2030. You will own nothing, and you will be happy.
I’m already so happy. How much happier can I get? 😢
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C’mon bro, its nowhere near that facile although I’ll concede that once people are more aware of the options, it might help get things going in the right direction. Bes positive and joyfully share you expertise ;)
So far, but try uninstalling Edge and then imagine an average non-technical user trying to.
I give it less than a year before this goes the way of the Windows 10 start menu registry tweak.
Debloat windows if you need to use it for work or something
A youtuber that actually devs and provides tools for the public?
What a gigachad.
Can you just do right click uninstall? or do you have to follow a 12 step hacker method that would cause updates to stop working until you reinstall windows again?
Windows has become the most bloated ad-infested spyware os in existance and more people are leaving it more than ever before. In just few more years, it will be a thing of the past
Reading the article, you do some registry edits to tell Windows that it’s in Europe. Then you uninstall as if you were in Europe. No word on what other consequences this might have.
If you have to tell Windows that you are in Europe then the title is nonsense.
“You too can drink alcohol even if you’re underage”… All you have to do is Lie, and get a fake ID". > Wow thanks.
This is what I want to know as well. Is it a simple process or more involved?
You Linux supremecists are so edgy…
I use Linux sometimes, too… But like… This shit is getting so old. We get it, you like Linux.
I only have Linux on my servers at home and at work, as well as on my laptop, and I agree with that, it’s arrogant and getting so damn old. Lemmy has such a boner for Linux and loves shoving it in everyone’s faces.
You do realize that Lemmy is an opensource platform, which runs on Linux, and is maintained by volunteers who are passionate about Linux? Does it really come as surprise that Lemmy is full of Linux enthusiasts?
If you don’t like all the Linux talk here, feel free to move to a proprietary social network instead, maybe one with a red alien logo or with a blue ‘f’…
Being an enthusiast doesn’t mean you have to preach about it everywhere you go. This post isn’t talking about Linux whatsoever. They’re starting to remind me of religious nuts that always make everything about their religion.
But its not the same person preaching about it everywhere now is it? If you think you’re seeing it everywhere, it’s because this is a community built and run by Linux enthusiasts, so naturally you’ll see a lot of people talking about Linux here.
This post isn’t talking about Linux whatsoever.
No, but OP was talking an alternative solution, which of course, was tongue-in-cheek, but apparently it triggered the parent poster in a PTSD sort of manner.
It’s not the same religious nut preaching about it everywhere, either, doesn’t make it any less annoying. It also doesn’t make it any less annoying to be preached everyday even if you live in a community based around the religion.
It’s also not about people talking about Linux. As a subscriber to Linux memes and Linux gaming communities, I have no issue with people talking about Linux. It’s when they are plugging Linux in an article that has nothing to do with it, especially in a community that is very aware about the existence of Linux, that it simply becomes a circlejerk and an attention seeking behaviour, instead of providing actually useful response to the post.
Everyone here knows Linux is an alternative to Windows, we don’t need the crazy Linux fanboys reminding us by posting stupid jokes about it on non-Linux posts.
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No, but OP was talking an alternative solution, which of course, was tongue-in-cheek, but apparently it triggered the parent poster in a PTSD sort of manner.
Or maybe people think tuxangelicalists are annoying
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your platform.
You do realize you’re posting this on a opensource platform, which runs on Linux, and is maintained by volunteers who are enthusiastic about this stuff?
If you don’t like all the Linux talk here, feel free to move to a proprietary platform instead, maybe one with a red alien logo…
I don’t get why you’re offended by someone jokingly pushing Linux?
To be fair, there are so many opportunities to make these jokes because of how Microsoft behaves that maybe that’s the real issue here?
It doesn’t look like they’re getting offended to me.
Imagine you have a friend that you see daily. Every time you see them, they make the same joke. How quickly do you think you’ll get tired of the joke?
Everyone here makes the joke only once. But you have many friends here!
Stop driving into things, Jerry, and we’ll stop making jokes about how you hit them!
You food supremecists are so edgy…
I eat food sometimes, too… But like… This is getting so old.
We get it, you like food. Now let people talk about eating human shit without constantly talking about what you put in your mouth.
We just want to eat human shit in peace. Stop telling us there’s a better way, we get it, you don’t like human shit and you think we should be eating food instead. Stop preaching about it.
Come on now, Windows is technology too. It’s valid to be a Windows peasant here, this isn’t Linuxcirclejerk.
So you’re claiming that all of Lemmy is a Linux only community?
When did I say that? I implied it’s only natural for there to be a lot of Linux enthusiasts, in a community built and run by Linux enthusiasts. So it shouldn’t come as a surprise seeing these sort of posts everywhere.
Because Linux, by its very nature, is the solution to these kinds problems, but if you insist on suffering through using Windows thats on you.
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So what? I was not talking about situations where there is vendor lock-in. I needed Windows for Photoshop in the past, I’m not that dumb.
I’m talking specifically about stuff like ads, privacy, unremovable bloatware, forced logins and such. And I stand by what I said: Linux by its very nature will not have these issues. And its very reasonable for people to recommend it in face of those.
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If you use Windows you know they will re-enable that on the next update, after you took your time turning all the garbage off. That was the final drop in the bucket for me to switch away from Windows some years ago actually.
I do agree Windows can be pretty decent when you do that, but if I am to have all this work to set up my machine, and then having them undo it, then I might as well learn a system that actually does what I tell it to.
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Same. I recently built a new machine and considered putting win10 on it instead of 11 due to all the complaints I’ve read. Instead, I just went with 11 to give it a try. After install it took me about an hour, but I had all recommendations, ads, and other annoyances turned off. After that setup, I’ve really liked the OS. Everything just works. Plug in new hardware and it just works. Download some random new software and it just works.
I say this as a software engineer that works with Linux systems daily.
For my personal use, I want my pc to just work. I spend enough time configuring and making things work at my job, I want my home pc to be no hassle and to work with everything I throw at it.
For this, windows is, by far, the best.
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It’s good, but you can’t know for sure if you removed all bloatware. Also if you install updates you can easily miss newly added ones.
Windows is like Reddit. There is more content and users, but we use Lemmy for a reason. So I’m not surprised that many people joke about GNU/Linux in this thread. GNU/Linux is not for everyone, but so do Lemmy.
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I got it to work on Ubuntu back then, but it was annoying as hell.
Why Fedora exactly? Genuinely curious!
I hope you’ve got backup solution if Windows ever prevents you from working.
It must be important if you’re prioritizing it over your software freedom…
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Hopefully a reinstall is the most you ever need and there is no chance Microsoft would ever happen to make changes that shaft you.
Software freedom is about being in control over your own computing. If being in control of your research and the results is important then I think it should be important to you too.
I consider myself like a smoker telling you smoking causes cancer in regards to my use of proprietary software. I am proud of the efforts I’ve made over the years to reduce using proprietary software.
Can’t be in control of your own computing if you can’t do your computing at all. From their responses, it’s clear that Linux is not supported for hardware essential to their workflow. How is this difficult to understand?
Last time I used Linux it came with its own bag of problems like hunting down drivers and incompatibility issues and random bugs that wouldn’t let me use the wifi without digging up solutions in some obscure forum. Maybe it’s not the case anymore but I don’t hear many people lauding it for its competitive UX and ease of use.
GNOME’s UX has come a looong way in just like 3 years.
I assume the same is true for KDE now that Valve is investing money in it.
I hope so! Nothing against Linux but it did feel a bit like a raw steak at times 😅
I understand how it can feel that way when you are not used to Linux. I felt the same way in the beggining when I was learning it.
Out of all mainstream desktops, GNOME is the only one which dares to create a new workflow which is simple yet very powerful
familiarity of kde is good too.
and its just getting better and better too!
Huh, my experience is the exact opposite. On Linux there was zero hunting for drivers of any kind. At all. They were all just included in the Linux kernel. Out of the box drivers for everything I had.
On windows it was: ok first I need my motherboard chipset driver, now I need my WiFi driver, and now my graphics driver, now the driver for this microphone, and finally the driver for this controller.
Each of which I had to search online for the right website, download an installer, run an installer, and delete the installer afterwards.
To me, that was a much more clunky experience.
Another fosstard
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You think i’m paying for windows?
You’ve never bought a laptop with Windows?
But aside from that, even if you downloaded an ISO then cracked it, you’re still paying for it in the same way you pay for Google services - with your personal information.
Let just say you don’t pay… with money.
Most people who think Windows came with the computer for free don’t know that the licence cost is baked into the total cost.
In Soviet Russia, Windows crash you!
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You’re either being intellectually disingenuous, or you’re new to Lemmy. Every goddamn thread about Windows here ends up littered with “jokes” about how great Linux is, and how shitty Windows is.
It’s beyond exhausting at this point.
And the goddamn distros can’t even support a fingerprint reader nor a nvidia card, or forces you to do some terminal voodoo to make the thing work, or crashes without warning after an update.
But somehow that’s better than Windows. -_-
to be fair its not Linux that doesnt support nvidia, its the other way around.
and it works fine if you dont have more specific use cases.
It’s Nvidia that has poor support for some standards, not the other way around.
And it’s not like people don’t run into issues, probably more often, with Windows update. The last time I updated Windows my audio got fucked and even rolling back the update and reinstalling audio drivers didn’t work. I had to reinstall windows entirely, which takes a bizarrely long time.
And yeah, IMO, it’s far better than Windows, and it’s not even close. But it’s just a tool. Use Windows if you want to use Windows.
Windows fanboys will justify anything just because it locks them in and forces them to use it. People with stockholm syndrone justifying terrible anti-consumer decisions by Microsoft are the ones really exhausting me.
Use it if you want to, or need to, but don’t be mad at the people actually trying to come up with and improve the solutions we have.
I just want a PC that works and linux ain’t it hun
Funny how my Linux PC works flawlessly without intervention then.
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Funny, this is my main gripe with Windows. It doesn’t just work in the same way Linux does. I get an update, it takes 5-25 seconds and everything still works, every time.
I get a Windows update and I’m filled with dread crossing my fingers everything still works when it finally reboots, and that it hasn’t “accidentally” reset all the telemetry settings I turned off.
Plus not having to hunt for drivers and use weird installers for software that I have to hunt for online. Some windows listening to my dark mode preference and others not, etc etc.
To me, my PC is just a tool. I don’t care what runs on it, as long as it works reliably, is intuitive, looks cohesive, and doesn’t get in my way. Windows unfortunately doesn’t hold up to that.
Again with the WU psychosis, get new material
Too bad?
Was half-expecting Rick Astley ngl
Beat me to it!
Still waiting for that LTSC
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Linux users when somebody doesn’t type out an essay to install a program
Uhm actually its very easy you just
Sudo apt ant sofo lror irir 8 6 9 7778 k j hofor -76
And press enter and debug your missing dependencies for the next two weeks, I mean how hard is that?
You’re so incredibly dumb. Smart people know that you should really write a script with vim and then run it. I only had to restart my computer once before saving!
I once got stuck in vim. I had to kill it. Then I uninstalled it.
I wish Nano was the default on everything. The fact that Git on Windows uses Vim is so incredibly annoying.
More like:
Search in the app store, press install.
As opposed to the absolute nightmare of finding executables on random websites, downloading them, running an installer program, pressing next a bunch of times, then deleting the installer afterwards.
App management is something Linux does very well, and Windows very poorly.
On no other OS is it the norm to do it like you’re expected to do it on Windows.
I can chat about bad points in Linux all day, I’m not blind to the faults of any of these OSes, but a Windows user saying installing software on Linux is hard really does have me giggling
E: pictures say a thousand words. Here’s the difference:
Installing an app on Windows: https://imgur.com/a/QoLzZlk
Installing an app on Linux: https://imgur.com/a/prsi9ZW
Need I say more?
E2: people still saying installing apps in Windows is easier despite photographic evidence to the contrary cannot be helped. You’ve gone too deep. Next you’ll be saying climate change isn’t real and the earth is flat lmao. The evidence is right there in front of you!
What I do to install software on my Linux PC:
Open the app store. Search. Click install. Done.
Updates are done through the same app store that I used to install it.
What I do to install software on my Windows PC:
Open my web browser. Search for the software. Pick the right website (with most software this is easy, for some software it’s not immediately clear, be careful not to download from a dodgy site). Navigate to the downloads page. Pick 64-bit Windows (not Mac!). Press download. Open file explorer. Navigate to Downloads. Find the installer exe. Double click. Go through the installer. Press next/tick/untick options. Press finish. Go back to the file explorer, delete the installer exe. Go to my desktop, delete the shortcut it has added (I hate it how every installer seems to do this!)
Updates are either done when I open the app and it does a check, which is frustrating, when I open an app I want it to open, I don’t want to see a prompt to update, OR through a separate updater app that runs at startup, making my PC sluggish at boot.
There are shortcomings in Linux, and there are things Windows does pretty well. It’s funny that you picked the thing Linux is literally the best at hands down, and Windows is the worst at, hands down. It’d be like if you complained about MacOS not being visually consistent lol
You should have picked something that Linux is genuinely bad at, like HDR support or something.
E: pictures say a thousand words. Here’s the difference:
Installing an app on Windows: https://imgur.com/a/QoLzZlk
Installing an app on Linux: https://imgur.com/a/prsi9ZW
Again, truly, I’m not here to say Windows is unusable and Linux is perfect, but of all the examples to praise windows and shit on Linux for, you chose software installation? Are you actually insane?? lmao
You missed the bit where you scan it with an antivirus program which flags it but the download site says that might happen and you have to decide who to believe
I’m sorry, but the “fragmentation” of Linux distros and the number of ways to install a program on Linux are also issues.
On Linux (or at least Ubuntu), you have to manage sources to install some programs, and that is WAY too complex for an end user. Fine, you can always use the CLI or search online, but then you run into fragmentation issues. “Why is there no Ubuntu download? Do I click the RPM one?”
On Windows, yes, it’s more clicks on average, but it’s a very consistent experience across all programs. You either open up the Microsoft Store, or you Google the name of the program you want and hit “next” until it’s done. No managing sources and no deciding which file extension you need. The only issue would be deciding between 32 bit and 64 bit.
No, you search the store, pick the app, press install. The end user doesn’t care or know whether the package manager is installing a flatpak or an RPM.
It’s not like people installing Windows programs need to know whether the installer is an .exe or an .MSI file, they just know that pressing the installer they downloaded brings up an installer. They don’t need to know about the low-level packaging fundamentals.
It’s not just more clicks on average, it’s more confusion, more prone to installing non-genuine software, and still fragmented. Do I install 32 bit? 64? Arm32? Arm64?
As for there are too many ways to install a program, what nonsense is that? You’re not made to open the terminal, just as you are not made to open powershell and use Winget. You can literally use this exact same argument against windows, yet you aren’t.
Look at the pictures I linked to. One is far easier than the other, and Windows isn’t the easy one.
