Evangelical Christian leader Russell Moore revealed this week that many evangelical pastors have become alarmed that their Trump-loving congregants have become so militant that they are even rejecting the teachings of Jesus Christ.In an interview with NPR, Moore said that multiple pastors had told h…

            • @[email protected]
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              1 year ago

              Yea, it’s an archetype, but it’s funny how some predictions are oddly specific for such a broad recurrent archetype:

              “… a despicable person will arise… a man of contempt… to whom the royal honor has not been rightfully conferred. He will slip in when least expected and will seize the kingdom through flattery and intrigue.” Daniel 11:21

              “He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior… He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them.” Daniel 8:25, 2 Thess 2:10

              “But then the court will convene, and all his power will be taken away.” Daniel 7:26

              From these, the Antichrist’s description is starting to sound like Hannah Arendt’s banality of evil and how that is scarier than fictional supernatural evil with horns and pitchforks.

            • StarServal
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              1 year ago

              Trump is capable of reading. I mean he read Mein Kampf. He just loses interest in it if he doesn’t see his name mentioned every x number of words.

        • j4yt33
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          -11 year ago

          He’s just a fascist wannabe dictator and some people want that. It’s really nothing new or special

          • @[email protected]
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            111 year ago

            yep there are many like him around the world, and I’d wager to say that most of them are actually potentially more dangerous than Trump because they’re smarter and actually have an agenda of their own. What really did the USA in was not the person Trump, but rather that the whole republican apparatus and especially the corporate media went all in with him after it became clear he’d win the primaries. With the 2 party system, that means that basically half of the country was set up to deify him in a way that they haven’t really tried with previous republican candidates

      • Aesthesiaphilia
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        551 year ago

        Remember, the Antichrist is not just “really evil person”. It’s “really evil person who convinces a lot of people that he’s a good person and a prophet”.

          • Kabe
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            121 year ago

            The term is open to interpretation, but it certainly doesn’t simply refer to non-christians.

            Some interpretations view the antichrist as a specific individual or figure who opposes Christ in some hypothetical, end of days type situation, while others see it as a broader symbolic representation of a certain figure or person that represents the complete opposite of Christ’s teachings or the spirit of Christianity.

            “Anti” can mean “opposite” just as much as it can mean “against”.

          • @[email protected]
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            51 year ago

            That is a whole lot of “probably” and “looks like” disclaimers for such an absolute claim.

            • stopthatgirl7OP
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              91 year ago

              At the time, it was more the Romans. It’s only after Rome became Christian that the narrative shifted to blame the Jews for everything.

      • Raltoid
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        If you’re thinking of the modern pop-culture version of the anti-christ, then no.

        If you compare his behaviour to how the bible actually describes the anti-christ, then yes.


        According to the bible he is supposed to:

        • Be a divisive non-politician who comes into power against peoples expectations.

        • Be overly arrogant with great boastful speeches

        • Lead many people away from Jesus and cause them to blindly follow himself.

        • Lead a very powerful military nation

        • Publically threaten people as a common tactic

        • Be very focused on winning/conquering

        • Rise to power through collusion, lies and corruption.

        • His election into power will by some be seen as a miracle

        • Will use his power to enrich themselves and their allies

        • Spread lies and falsehoods as truth, general lies and deception.

        • It specifically says he will reward his allies with land/property

        • Become angry and threaten the “King of the south”(Mexico)

        • Be supported by some of the nations most powerful religious leaders(super churches and such support him)

        • See themselves as above everyone else

        • Disregard the needs of the most vulnerable in society

        • Some will rise up in protest and face violence in return


        Some things that are almost too on the nose:

        • Only see one term

        • Attempt to stay in power but defeated by the legal system

        • Use his armed forced to remove people from a church for their own nefarious needs

        • During their rule there will be large inflation in food cost, while oil remains cheap

        • There will be a pandemic and mass death during their rule

        • Supposed to worship the “god of fortresses” (in reference of walls and keeping people out)

        • Followers will wear a mark on their forehead (maga caps)

          • prole
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            01 year ago

            Yeah, that one caught me off guard too… Pretty sure it doesn’t.

            • Raltoid
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              The bible has a bunch of different references to oil, as it was used a lamp fuel(and some rituals).

              This one refers to Revelation 6:6

              And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

              From KJ or this one from the NIV

              Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “Two pounds of wheat for a day’s wages, and six pounds of barley for a day’s wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!”

              Referring to how the price of food would go up, but oil and alcohol would not.

              • prole
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                21 year ago

                Pretty disingenuous to suggest that has any relation to fossil fuels and using them in internal combustion engines.

                But, then again, that’s what Christians excel at: rationalizing their awful beliefs.

        • j4yt33
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          11 year ago

          That’s an interesting read, thank you! Although I would still say most points on this list still apply to many fascist dictators

          I’m not sure about the point regarding “one term”, surely the bible didn’t know about the system of presidential terms? How exactly does it say there? Same about oil, what is the biblical equivalent?

          • @[email protected]
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            11 year ago

            It’s all from the Benjamin Corey post I linked in a reply to the comment you’re replying to. The BIble is talking about different oil-- either food, or lamp oil. 'One term’s is a happy coincidence, the bible says ~3.5 years

              • @[email protected]
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                11 year ago

                No, just a coincidence. Except that both are used as fuel, I suppose, though fueling very different things

      • @[email protected]
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        271 year ago

        Man there was this (satirical, but not inaccurate) blog about how trump actually matches many features of the anti-christ, but I can’t find it now, only a bunch of blogspam copying it

      • TWeaK
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        61 year ago

        I agree, you don’t have to look far down the road to see even worse (DeSantis).

        • El Barto
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          Bro. There is a guy who literally started a war over nothing, killing and raping indiscriminately, and threatening with nukes.

          And there is a dude in a nation of more than a billion people, running concentration camps, possibly committing genocide as we speak.

          And to define the Antichrist, you’re focused on U.S. politics???

          • Mossy Feathers (She/They)
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            301 year ago

            Someone mentioned this somewhere else in the thread, but the antichrist isn’t just a super-duper evil dude; he’s an evil dude with a religious following. He’s a guy where people voluntarily worship him. Not because they’re forced, not because they’re apathetic and just going with the flow, they willingly worship him. Additionally, trump has had pastors claim him to be sent from God, or that he is some kind of savior, which, iirc, is another characteristic of the antichrist. As evil as the others are, I’m pretty sure trump fits the bill better than they do.

          • TWeaK
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            61 year ago

            There is a guy who literally started a war over nothing, killing and raping indiscriminately, and threatening with nukes.

            I wouldn’t be surprised if DeSantis did this, given the opportunity.

            a dude in a nation of more than a billion people, running concentration camps, possibly committing genocide as we speak.

            Now that definitely sounds like DeSantis.

      • donuts
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        61 year ago

        Just think about how many of the seven deadly sins (pride, greed, wrath, envy, lust, gluttony and sloth) Trump embodies. Like… fuckin’ all of them?

          • donuts
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            31 year ago

            I’m not saying it’s “special”. Hypocritical, counterintuitive, ironic, sure…

            What I’m saying is that Trump represents the very antithesis of what Christianity preaches. He is a very high-profile and public embodiment of their “seven deadly sins”. Which, to me at least, is very anti-christ-like. I’m not sure why you need that spelled out…

            • j4yt33
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              11 year ago

              I mean, if we’re being all passive-aggressive I’ll also happily point out that the seven deadly sins have nothing to do with the antichrist technically, they are not even mentioned in the bible afaik. So bit of a crappy argument really

      • Hogger85b
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        1 year ago

        It may be there are worse people but they are more akin to satan (e.g Hitler was atheist (well not really he believed in the occult but didn’t go down religion). Trump claims to be some sort of Jesus figure to religious so hits some.of the “pretends to be Christ” points of.the antichrist

        (Edit Hitler religious views are very complex but I still. Stand by point he less acted like “Christ” figure than trump)

        • @[email protected]
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          I’m going to take issue with your simplification and classification of Hitler, and the wider Nazi ideology here because I think this is very important given some of the patterns we see repeating from the early 20th century. There was a lot of nuance to the public and politically expedient viewpoints that Hitler professed regarding religion throughout his life versus his private viewpoints which colored the ideological mechanisms of Nazism.

          It is tacitly incorrect to state that Hitler was an occultist, or an atheist by modern convention.

          Regarding Occultism: He detested the mysticism, neo-paganism, and occult underpinnings that Himler brought to the party (specifically the SS). Hitler made it very clear that he considered these viewpoints to be sophistry and repugnant to his own view of the world, but he allowed them in so far as he supported Himler as a leader of the party.

          Regarding atheism: Hitler, likewise, considered atheism to be an ideological evolution of Jewish Bolshevism that he believed was essentially responsible for the rise of Soviet Communism. It is well documented from close confidants who surrounded Hitler, and wrote about his views contemporaneously that he believed atheism was an ignorant and dangerous return to the animalistic hedonism of humanity.

          Why am I bothering to quibble over these distinctions? Well, for one thing because truly dangerous political leaders generally possess the intelligence, as well as tactical forethought to manipulate and twist at the very heart of the tribal labelism that proliferates through the uneducated masses of society. They then warp these convenient in-group / out-group dynamics to fit the needs of their political ambitions. We see this today, although in a much lazier fashion, with the alliance of convenience between the neo-conservative and christian nationalist movements that have proven to be a foundational undergirding to the “Trump Cult” as it were.

          We should all understand the complicated historical relationship of religion and politics from the 20th century. Especially regarding the manipulation of those relationships which lead to the rise of authoritarianism on a scale never seen before or since. Lest we go down that same road again, except the next time will invariably be the last time because the power of the technological panopticon we are now capable of creating would enslave humanity or destroy our species.

          PS: If you’re interested in understanding the complexities of the religious and ideological positions espoused by Hitler throughout his life as well as the Nazi party as a whole this Wikipedia article on the subject is actually really good.

          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler

  • @[email protected]
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    1681 year ago

    I’m not surprised. I’ve heard stories as far back as 2015 or 2016 about people storming out in the middle of their pastor’s sermon because the pastor directly quoting Jesus’ sermon on the mount was too “woke.”

    Mark my words: if conservatives can no longer advance their cause under the guise of Christianity, they won’t abandon conservatism. They will abandon Jesus.

    • @[email protected]
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      This is an extremely interesting thought experiment, and one that is not without precedent. I left a comment below about the misrepresented and often repeated claims regarding Hitler’s (as well as Nazism more broadly) views on religion, occultism, and atheism.

      I bring this up again here because what happened in Germany was essentially the opposite of the proposition you are suggesting. Instead of throwing Jesus out of Christianity, Hitler made a specific and distinct push to remove any perceivedly Jewish teachings from what became German “Positive Christianity”. This included the removal of the Old Testament, the Pauline epistles, and the framing of Jesus as a dogmatic Aryan ideologue who opposed the teachings of Jewish mysticism.

      The notion that the modern crypto-fascist & christian-nationalist movements might take the opposite approach by throwing out or obfuscating the teachings of Jesus which they perceive as liberal or socialist in nature and therefore counter to the authoritarian hegemony they seem to be advocating for is a fascinating proposition. I also happen to believe you are correct, and that we have been seeing this happen in real time over the last several decades at least.

      I am sincerely afraid that the most damaging threads of the 20th century will be repeated again, and I’m not so sure that humanity is as prepared as it should be to fight against that potentiality. The destruction of education in this country, and the tears in the facade of infinite-growth-capitalism have made the United States the perfect hotbed for this kind of ideology to rise again…

      • @[email protected]
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        271 year ago

        I am sincerely afraid that the most damaging threads of the 20th century will be repeated again

        Looks at Uyghur camps in China

        • @[email protected]
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          No country joined WW2 to liberate the Jews. No one is going to fight China for the Uyghurs. These are atrocities that help sell the morality of a war fought for other reasons. Defeating the Nazis was certainly a moral victory and they were a great evil, but that’s not why we fought them.

          No one is coming to the rescue of the Uyghurs. Enduring sanctions is likely to be the worst consequence China faces.

          • @[email protected]
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            101 year ago

            While not the worst consequence, there’s also been a great destruction of culture.

            Japan and Korea have been becoming more popular on the world stages, where they’re celebrated for anime and pop songs. Meanwhile, for all its money, and all its genuinely rich and interesting history, entering a forum to announce you’re Chinese might end up prompting snarky responses like “Oh hey, do they give you your own Uyghur family to treat as slaves?”

    • @[email protected]
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      371 year ago

      They won’t think they’re abandoning Jesus. They will start worshipping some different badass with the same name who brings vengeance upon his enemies with swift application of firearms. They’ll call that entity Jesus, but it will have no relationship to the Christian concept of Jesus.

    • @[email protected]
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      21 year ago

      I suggest you check out the Conservapedia Bible Rewrite project/Conservapedia Bible Project for a good laugh.

    • @[email protected]
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      621 year ago

      You have a point, however, there seems to be a difference in severity. It’s like how openly and aggressively racist some of these folks have gotten. Sure, they always probably harbored those feelings, but now they are more brazen about it, and the behavior is getting worse as a result.

      • SokathHisEyesOpen
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        411 year ago

        They just needed someone in a position of authority to tell them it was okay to be awful.

        • @[email protected]
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          101 year ago

          Jepp. Ever heard the argument from for instance atheists that you don’t need the bible to know right from wrong? They are unfortunately incorrect. These guys definitely need some higher power telling them.

          • SokathHisEyesOpen
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            141 year ago

            I was just talking to my son about this last weekend. We were discussing the merits of organized religion. He said “I don’t need the threat of eternal punishment to act morally”. I said “you’re right, and neither do I, but there seems to be a great many people who do. So although the church is largely an instrument of control, it’s a necessity for a great many people”. It is going to have a profoundly negative impact on our society when these people are completely unleashed.

            • @[email protected]
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              31 year ago

              I would rather have people act morally because of empathy and even social pressure, versus “master told me to.”

              Granted, if the church and its teachings disappeared today, things may get a bit more rough in the near future. Religion works on some people because they were raised in it and need it to stay normal. But if they weren’t indoctrinated since birth, it would not have such a hold on their morality.

              Also granted, I’m sure there are plenty of people who would still act better with it than without it. Just speaking in general terms here.

              • @[email protected]
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                21 year ago

                I would also prefer if people just acted out of empathy but I believe some people just can’t. Ironically while many claim that autistic can’t they are often more empathetic than others.

                What I really dislike with this kind of Christians is that they have so much text regarding compassion but they still just care about the parts that can be used to judge others. even though they claim to read the Bible literally. Which of course they don’t.

                • @[email protected]
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                  21 year ago

                  Yeah, I would say that it’s another example of those Christians cherry picking the parts of the Bible that are convenient for what they already believe, but they aren’t even doing that. The majority are just repeating lines they were fed.

            • @[email protected]
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              21 year ago

              Aw, how sweet that you think a negative impact on society from religion is something that will happen in the future.

          • @[email protected]
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            21 year ago

            Problem is that the morality taught by Christianity, and most other large organized religions, is extremely outdated and has spent many hundreds of years being corrupted by those in power to oppress others. I mean these people literally believe that God will punish our entire society if we don’t eradicate LGBTQ groups. I actually think these people would be much more tolerant of others if they had never encountered organized religion and just learned to coexist with others organically.

            • @[email protected]
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              11 year ago

              While I partly agree with you, my point was not so much the content of the laws but that some people need an invisible all seeing power to make sure that they’re following them.

              They have trouble empathising with others unless it also directly affects them. There are for instance a number of republican politics who only supported the LGBTQ after their own child came out as gay or what ever. And that’s the best case scenario.

              Religion in the US is weird though. You got the extremist kicked out from Europe and you southern state branches where pastors either moved north or stopped talking about equality for all men. What remains is non of the kindness and only cruelty and punishment that some people seem to get off on.

              My own take on the morality of the laws in the Bible is that we would be better off if we more looked to the reason for the why of the laws than just reading what the law said. What spoken of in tanakh (or old testament) regarding men having sex for instance isn’t about to consenting adults but a question of rape of the penetrated man. Or in an interpretation from a Danish theology, incest of a male relative. Except for the question of rape and incest, it doesn’t have any bearing today regarding same sex relationships.

    • @[email protected]
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      01 year ago

      Arguable. The stories have him talk about the right price and your rights with slaves, and as commonly understood “not one jot or tittle” would directly conflict with “let he who…”, unless the second is an edict (“hey, you, sinless one, go chuck a rock at them and bludgeon then go death”).

      Where the bible isn’t monstrous, it’s at best inconsistent.

  • @[email protected]
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    1041 year ago

    …did the pastor just wake from a 6 year coma?

    ‘Christians’ switched to Cult-45 the day Trump entered into politics.

    • @[email protected]
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      581 year ago

      I grew up fundamentalist, and they had abandoned his teachings in the 80’s in service to Emperor Reagan.

      • Flying Squid
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        301 year ago

        I mean, really, when did Christians ever follow Jesus’ teachings considering how many people were converted by the sword…

        • @[email protected]
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          461 year ago

          It’ll be the ones you don’t hear about, for example my grandparents who are some of the kindest, most compassionate people you’d meet. They hosted refugees, consistently voted progressive, and changed church when their previous one started being more anti-LGBT. There’s just no headlines in Christians actually acting like Christians.

          • @[email protected]
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            131 year ago

            Because they’re actually following the teachings of the Bible especially the notes on the hypocrites. They just do good, they don’t talk about doing good in places where people will hear them.

            Good on them :)

              • @[email protected]
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                21 year ago

                If my kin are anything to go by, youre never too old to kickass and take names. Hell my great grandfather won his first bout against death, lost the second though.

    • @[email protected]
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      141 year ago

      Christians have ignored the teachings of Jesus from the start. Just one example: You cannot serve God and money. Matthew 6:24. I think Jesus was a communist who would probably also be crucified today by the people who proclaim to be Christians.

      • @[email protected]
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        71 year ago

        Paul derailed the Church right out of the gate. Here’s a guy who has had an absurd amount of control over the fate of Christianity who never met Christ, and who advocates principles that directly contradict Christ’s own teachings while being very similar to the teaching of the Jewish temple Paul previously held power in as a Pharisee. Paul took Christ’s teachings and merged them into a contemptible, incoherent hybrid of Christ’s message and the Jewish law-focused faith, brought full circle back into a religious bureaucracy by the Roman Catholics.

  • @[email protected]
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    961 year ago

    No one hates Jesus and his teachings as fiercely as a Christian. Christians would be the firsts in line to crucify Christ for his hippie, soft ideas again if he were to resurrect, this has been known for centuries.

    • LifeBandit666
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      251 year ago

      I have a 20 year old t-shirt that says “If Jesus comes back we’ll kill him again” on it in tiny white script. People always thought it was a statement of my intentions but it was always just a comment on society.

    • SokathHisEyesOpen
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      11 year ago

      That’s simply not true. A truthful statement is that these people were never Christians. They flew the Christian flag because it lent them credibility and control. But it has been a long time since we’ve seen any Christian values from the loudmouths we see in the news claiming to be Christians. Actual Christians aren’t the people you see on the news. I know a few and they’re great people who do a lot for their communities and the people around them.

      • prole
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        1 year ago

        A truthful statement is that these people were never Christians.

        This is like the most very basic “No True Scotsman” that you can do.

        These people are Christian, whether you like it or not. You don’t get to decide that they aren’t. All Abrahamic religions and their holy books are full of awful awful stuff. And no, not just the Old Testament.

        Now you know how most Muslims feel.

        • SokathHisEyesOpen
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          -21 year ago

          If you’re not at least attempting to follow the teachings of Christ, then you’re not a Christian. Just calling yourself something doesn’t make you that thing. I can say I’m a Rock Star until I’m blue in the face, that doesn’t change the fact that I’m not even musical.

          • @[email protected]
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            11 year ago

            What you’re missing is that your rational response doesn’t let people feel justified in hating people

            You know, like atheists think religion makes you act. Turns out that’s a humanity thing and not a religion thing

      • @[email protected]
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        61 year ago

        Not a true Scotman. Read a history book. Christians have been beheading, slaving and murdering people ever since Constantine converted in his death bed. It was never about being a good Christian in the eyes of God. Religion has always been about power.

  • @[email protected]
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    701 year ago

    Shouldn’t he be like the false prophet they warn themselves about? I mean, is not that I expected some of those dumbfucks to even know what the bible says, but fuck, the level of idolatry is astounding.

  • @[email protected]
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    1 year ago

    “I never thought the leopard would eat MY face.” These people got in bed with quite possibly the most godless person on Earth, Trump is very likely one of the first true Atheist Presidents we’ve ever had. He’s probably paid multiple women for sex and abortions, cheated on all of his wives, lies on a constant and regular basis, and is just generally a shitty person on every level. This is the person they hitched their wagon to to get Roe v Wade overturned. I sure as hell hope it blows up in their face.

    • @[email protected]
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      311 year ago

      I think it already is blowing up in their face, and agree fully with your sentiment. While atheists dont depend on religion to define their morals, they get the opportunity to self-define their morals. A narcissistic egotisticial born-with-a-silver-spoon person like Trump is a wolf in sheep’s clothing parading as one of them. He decays or corrupts everything he touches, and the GOP and evangelical Christians have been rubbing all up on him for 7 years. Both groups are in crisis these days.

      The GOP has no true platform beyond revenge politics, and the churches are bleeding congregation members… people leaving either because they aren’t on board the crazy train of their church peers or leave because they’ve allowed their beliefs and morals to twist out of whack in conflict of scripture.

    • prole
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      121 year ago

      Not only that, but all of that was well known prior to him winning the election.

      They don’t care.

    • @[email protected]
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      31 year ago

      it’s not that he’s athiest - he still firmly believes in a God and a Supreme Being™, it’s just that he sees himself in the role…

    • @[email protected]
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      11 year ago

      Just a note… whether he is atheist or follows a religion isn’t actually related to his garbage character.

      I get it… I know some religious people mistakenly think that morals come from religion. So it’s interesting they pick someone who doesn’t even put on a show of practicing their religion.

      Of course, as the rest of us know, any amount of observation in life will show that there are both decent and despicable people in both religious and non-religious camps.

      But, yeah it is painfully ironic that religious people hitched their wagon to that lying, adulterous, greedy, gluttonous, (etc) slime bag.

    • @[email protected]
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      01 year ago

      All that immoral behavior you mentioned reads much more like the behavior of an outspoken conservative Christian rather than an atheist. You know, all the “rules for thee but not for me” type stuff.

      It may be true that neither of them really believe deep down, but only one is using it to look good while being shitty.

  • @[email protected]
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    551 year ago

    They keep saying that Jesus will return. Yet if he ever did they would dismiss him as a “dirty hippie” and cheer for the cops who beat him to death.

  • graycube
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    531 year ago

    They like the “is Lord” part. The idea of divine royalty and unquestioning loyalty. They aren’t so keen on teachings of kindness, introspection, self awareness, caring, mutual respect, humility, poverty, etc.

      • @[email protected]
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        51 year ago

        In the 30+ year old words of Bill Hicks:

        They believe the bible is the exact word of God - Then they change the bible! Pretty presumptuous, huh? “I think what God meant to say…”

  • @[email protected]
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    1 year ago

    Moore also said that one problem is that many Christians simply feel alienated and lonely, as politics have come to take over the community outlets that churches once held.

    Oh, hey, it’s basically me. There isn’t room for “love your neighbor as yourself” in the Republichristian party. I don’t feel welcome at church anymore.

    • Bobby Yale
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      71 year ago

      You’re at the wrong church then. A good one can be hard to find in some areas…

  • Aesthesiaphilia
    link
    fedilink
    461 year ago

    Almost as if they never gave a shit about Jesus’s teachings in the first place and only cherry picked a couple of things that fit their existing desires.

    Now they’re just going mask off.