Start telling people now, over on reddit. BEFORE they start cracking down. That way, everyone will know, and the growth will happen even more rapidly.
I straight up don’t understand the appeal of a bigger userbase here. More users isn’t inherently better, and will definitely introduce more issues and problem users that will tax our still developing and somewhat fragile platform. Wanting that “instantly” is just asking for the collapse of Lemmy, imo.
It will help more niche communities grow. I left reddit, generally don’t miss it. I also give zero shits about tech, programming and Linux. I am a sports fan though, big NBA fan. There’s just zero conversation on those instances. I would like to see the user base grow so I can engage some conversations about those interests. I sure as shit ain’t going outside and making friends lol
Big this.
I am still interested in the mentioned tech, programming ad linux communities but the biggest issue is definitely smaller communities lacking in numbers. But I see more and more users and conversations on here over time. It has definitely increased since I joined. Hopefully we’ll see the smaller communities grow as well.
I am with you. I don’t care about what the loonix lunatics and privacy criminals preach (I already use uwunutu btw), I just wanna see interaction in the regular normal people communities without the reddit garbage. We need more people in here for that.
There’s really zero guarantee that any number of additional users will improve your communities. What would work better is seeding discussions yourself. Is it going to be as robust and abundant as Reddit? No. But the platform is also much newer. All of those subs grew over time because people put in the effort to participate even when the was “zero conversation”. You might be taking to yourself for a while, but setting the stage will be much better for the growth you want to see rather than aiming to fill it with random users you just hope make it better and not worse.
Bro, I’ve tried. Mods do a good job on the instances putting up content. But I’m hoping to get my news from those instances. Outside of that I get my news from podcasts. Not really sharable content for this platform. I’ve had like 3 replies from about 20 comments and it’s rare for a post to reach double digit up votes. I’ll for sure water plants but I’m kind of over planting seeds. I mod a couple nsfw communities so I’m doing my part.
Yeah, it’s not an easy thing to do. It can certainly feel like wasted effort, but “over planting” is just the best way to get communities going. Most people that would otherwise engage are too sheepish to make posts of their own, but are more willing to add on to other’s posts. Glad your willing to put in the effort.
Lemmy’s biggest weakness right now is a slow drip feed of content. After blocking all of the sports communities and instances in languages I don’t speak, I’m left with the following:
- News
- A bunch of meme communities that might as well be interchangeable with one another
- Memes about a TV show I don’t watch
- Newspaper comics
- Animal pictures
- Way too much vanilla porn
None of this is bad content per say, but it doesn’t capture what I loved about reddit before they ruined it. Reddit was a place where even the most niche of niche topics had a space that you could check in on every day. Obscure anime, unusual collections, diy showcases, you name it. Cultivating a culture that produces produces such specific groups requires enough people to form them. In a group of 100 random people, the number of them who are into Ginga Nagareboshi Gin (look it up) is going to be quite low, but that number increases the more people you include in the sample size and sooner or later you have a subreddit for Ginga fans. That was why Reddit was special to me, and that is what’s keeping Lemmy from reaching that high for me.
Sounds like you just want people to provide content for you. Zero-effort entertainment at your convenience, platform be damned.
Considering your have 2 posts to your name, I’d recommend being the change you want to see in the world. If you want a community for your interest, you can’t expect it to just appear for you, fully formed. Find the one you’re ignoring because it’s “too slow” and get involved. The reason it’s so “dead” is that most people think like you are.
It’s estimated that about 10% of users actually participate in the forums they visit, with 1% of that making the majority of “content”. Imagine what it would look like if that changed? We don’t need to throw more users into the platform that will tax the system, we just need to stop expecting everyone else to entertain us and start contributing.
Oh, I’m so sorry. I didn’t realize that you had to make a certain number of posts before you were allowed to criticize the platform. /s
Seriously though, there’s no need to get hostile. Having a hobby isn’t supposed to feel like work.
Browsing a website without any effort on your part isn’t a “hobby”. And if you have zero interest in being part of the solution (ie doing the work), then no, your criticism isn’t needed. Communities take work to maintain and build. Bemoaning the state of them without actually being involved is truly counterproductive.
That’s just wishful thinking that doesn’t address the problem at all. Even though you might want the 90-9-1 ratio to change, it isn’t. It’s an established pattern for a reason. Even if the person you responded to was gonna post a lot, they might get a few upvotes, maybe a comment or two on their posts. Simply because there aren’t enough people here to engage with niche topics. And then it feels like your effort is futile (which honestly it is if your goal is an active community), they get discouraged and stop posting and we’re back to square one with no meaningful changes. Sometimes it is about numbers and this is one such case.
Nah, it’s simply defeatist to assume that ratio is inescapable. On big enough scales? Sure, it’ll probably fall around those percentages. But in small communities like we have on Lemmy, there’s absolutely no reason only one person in a community of <100 should be expected to provide 100% of the posts or comments. We can and should do better than that, and the best way to turn those 90% lurkers into posters is too encourage engagement and reward it with our own. Will it work for every community on Lemmy? No. But there’s no reason not to encourage it. It could only help.
Gatekeeping like this will kill lemmy.
I’m not “gatekeeping”. Lemmy can and will grow fine on it’s own. That will be great. Campaigning to increases the user base by 500x “instantly” will just cause problems. I get people want more content, but wanting this platform to be the new Reddit overnight is simply unrealistic and frankly dangerous for the site. The platform maintained by volunteers, not a corporation, and it is regularly facing problems that it already struggles to deal with effectively. A Reddit sized userbase would just destroy Lemmy.
We’re already larger than Reddit was pre Digg/Slashdot migration. I personally believe we won’t ever have another major migration like Rexxit, but that’s mostly because the MSM will absolutely super babby hate the idea that they can’t control the flow of information, again, so they will refuse to even refer to the fediverse as anything other than Reddit, Meta, or X.
More users = more lifetime, for the platform. At the current level, I estimate that this platform will last about two years. Maybe three. Less, if some kind of significant problem occurs.
You’re right that the instant part could be dangerous. That could be the significant problem I just mentioned. But otherwise, Lemmy needs more users, desperately. All internet things have to grow or die. You can wish that wasn’t a fact, but it will remain a fact.
Lemmy was already 3 years old when the API fiasco started. It didn’t need the users merely to survive.
But in the context of the meme, more users means more content which Is a good thing.
But in the context of the meme, more users means more content which Is a good thing.
That’s all I meant.
“Grow or die”. What a bunch of corporate bs. And throwing out made up “lifetimes” doesn’t lend you the legitimacy you think it does.
Lemmy doesn’t “desperately need” more users. What it needs is less of this nonsense.
I’m sorry, but I’m simply correct about this. If you come in here in about a year’s time, and there haven’t been any new posts in three weeks, you WILL leave the platform, too.
You won’t intend to. You won’t do it out of spite. You’ll just keep checking for new posts, less and less frequently, until you eventually give up.
Growth is THE ONLY WAY to prevent that situation. Does that mean Lemmy has to “go corporate” and start monetizing everything? No. Does that mean Lemmy has to become as huge as Reddit? No. I don’t want that. I don’t want this place to become so big that it inevitably repeats all the mistakes that Reddit made, over the years.
But the Lemmy/Fediverse platform absolutely does have to grow larger than this, in order to become a permanent, secure thing.
Feel free to explain why that “will” happen without infinite growth.
I just did. Allow me to repeat it:
If you come in here in about a year’s time, and there haven’t been any new posts in three weeks, you WILL leave the platform, too.
You won’t intend to. You won’t do it out of spite. You’ll just keep checking for new posts, less and less frequently, until you eventually give up.
Growth is THE ONLY WAY to prevent that situation.
THESE ARE FACTS. THEY ARE NOT OPTIONAL.
EDIT: Also, I specifically said that the growth didn’t need to be infinite. But yeah, you go ahead and claim that I said that. Go ahead and just blatantly lie about what I said. Great intellectual honesty, right there.
So your explanation on why it will happen is that it will happen? You understand how nonsensical that is, right? YELLING that it’s a “fact” doesn’t make it so.
HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS???
IF. YOU. COME. TO. THIS. PLATFORM. AND. THERE. HAVEN’T. BEEN. ANY. POSTS. FOR. WEEKS.
YOU. WILL. LEAVE.
That is a fact. if you deny it, you are simply insane. We do not currently have enough people to avoid a situation where there can suddenly be days/weeks of time with no new posts, and certainly no good ones.
If that happens, the community will die. It’s like I’m saying “if you let go of a bowling ball in Earth’s gravity, it will hit the floor,” and you’re like “BUT PROVE IT! HOW DO YOU KNOOOOOW THAT’LL HAPPEN???”
It’s bloody goddamned obvious. This community is BEYOND TEENY TINY SMALL, right now. This SubLemmy has 1.8 thousand people active per day. That’s 75 per hour. You can fit that many people into a mid-sized bus. IT’S NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE TO GUARANTEE CONTINUED EXISTENCE.
Scream all you want, you’ll never make me incorrect about this.
No it depends entirely on your audience if your doing a yt kids channel sure because they grow up but if your targeting loyal users u don’t really need to
targeting loyal users
There IS still a minimum number of them that you need, in order to truly make the community secure against rotting away, naturally.
As I explained to someone else, if you come in here one day, and you realize that it’s been three weeks since you’ve seen a new post, you WILL eventually stop coming back to check. And then the few people who remain will also stop interacting with the platform. And it will die.
I don’t know the exact number of people that the particular community (or the Fediverse, in general) needs to be permanently viable, but it’s somewhere between 20 and 100 times more people than we currently have. Maybe more.
That’s not up for debate. It’s simply a cold, hard fact. You don’t have to like it, but it’s not optional.
I mean look back 8 months at the number of comments and post upvotes, Lemmy has been worthwhile at a larger userbase than now and as long as the influx isn’t too much (Eternal September style) the community can continue to grow. People who dont fit in will go back to reddit or find their own place somewhere in the fediverse where the old heads won’t have to put up with them. I dont understand the insularism, although I only got here about 2 months ago so maybe I need to lurk more and read the room.
Content here sucks ass. It’s 95% bitching about politics.
The great thing about Lemmy is there’s no singular “here”. Make a community free from politics if you want one, or, if you’re able/willing, make a whole-ass instance. The makeup of Lemmy is pretty much 100% democratic, based on the content of those willing to put in the effort. If someone is unhappy with that makeup, it’s up to them to change it.
Also, it’s worth noting that Lemmy is certainly not a curated garden of content. If there’s stuff you don’t want to see any more, it’s up to you to remove it from your feed. That is the intended user experience here.
None of that has to do with the front page on every instance and the lack of content. Remove politics and you have nothing. You hit non stop porn after a while and removing politics well just make it a porn feed.
I mean, I can tell you that’s simply not true. There’s plenty of content that’s not porn or politics. Those two make up the bulk, sure, but block all of it that you don’t want to see and other content is clearly there.
Did I say all? No I said 95%. Is that exact? Of fucking course not.
Yes, I heard you the first time.
Then you shouldn’t have said that I was incorrect 🤷♂️
See that made me think you misunderstood. You see how we got here?
Most communities on Reddit barely have any content. While Lemmy will never have the user base of Reddit, some more engagement would be great.
Titties are coming
Weiner is coming.
As they occasionally do.
Same.
Porn hosting on Lemmy is insanely risky. If someone posts illegal content to your server you are held liable due to hit being hosted on your machine.
No riskier than any other server that hosts content
Plus, afaik, most of the CSAM attacks have been on the bigger (i.e. non-porn) instances.
Wait isn’t there laws for this to make the poster accountable instead of the host?
jurisdictions vary. in the us you just have to make an effort to remove it if you’re aware.
ianal
Bold of you to assume those cretins will leave their circle jerk of a platform.
You really believe they’ll stay, after you can’t show pussy anymore?
Okay. You bet on that, if you want.
I am one of those cretins
Removed by mod
Excellente!
I need to find me some good gay NSFW communities
The king 👀
Start one
This is why I always do my duty and upvote and support all of the porn content, especially OC.
Wishful thinking🤣
You realize that would literally cause a hug of death?
What part of “brace yourselves” are some of y’all not getting?
I am literally acknowledging that it’s not an unalloyed benefit that’s on the horizon, here.
But I also am not in control of what Reddit is about to do.
(edit: but just like with Winter/war coming, in GoT, you can also benefit from a crazy-ass situation)
We don’t need more simps here.
people like dicks and titties, what’s the problem?
Don’t want any new competition huh?
King Simp confirmed.
There surely has to be a reason why what I said offended you. I wonder what that may be?
- controversial
- unfounded
- weirdly sex negative
- no elaboration
Now why oh why are you getting downvoted?
Looks like I upset the hive again! Oh no! And it seems the hypocritical “insulting someone who insulted me makes me better than they are” defends holds strong still. So… glad you were able to do that for yourself.
And being downvoted by offended simps isn’t really something to be taken as a negative. I meant what I said…. There are FAR too many simps here already. We don’t need that shit cluttering up the feeds.
No apologies for insulting you.
Im not sure where you are insulting me, all I see is embarrassing rambling.
For someone that thinks calling out people for simping over OnlyFans girls and posting that shit over and over, cluttering feeds is being “controversial”- I’m not surprised you’re not catching on.
What are you on about?
All immediately invest in lemmy stock!
I literally could not possibly buy any more…
I have all my puts down
This is the year of Linux on the desktop, and that is good for Bitcoin.
Game of Phones
I think coomers would sooner go to twitter for their porn before here
Why though? Twitter is almost completely inaccessible outside of login and nitter was shut down, it’s horrendous for nsfw engagement now
You’d have better luck thirstposting on insta or tiktok
Exactly. Also, good luck searching, bookmarking, filtering, sorting posts, organizing actual communities, etc. The whole methodology of the platform basically disallows all those things.
Lemmy is a replacement for Reddit. That’s straight-up what it is. That’s why we’re here. Even if TwiX hadn’t become evil and insane, because of its insane master, it still wouldn’t be any kind of replacement for Reddit. Especially the NSFW Reddit communities.
also corposhit is increasingly not useful for literally anything
Of course, according to some of the people in this thread, I’m a corpo-apologist, because I think the Lemmy/Fediverse has to grow beyond a level of about 2k users per day, per community, or else it will eventually die.
Face fucking palm.
or else it will eventually die.
how so?
BECAUSE 2K USERS PER SUB-VERSE, PER DAY IS NOT EVEN ENOUGH TO BE SAFE FROM THE ATTRITION OF NATURAL DEATH RATES, AMONG THE USERS.
Some of you guys really do not have even a smidgen of understanding, about how small the Lemmy/Fediverse platform is. More people probably get banned from Txitter/X every hour than the total number of users, in the whole history of this platform.
It’s not sustainable. It has to grow some more, or else it will die. You’re just being obstinate. It’s like if you have 12 dollars in your bank account, and your family is like “we’re going to starve, at this rate,” and you’d be like “HOW SO? WE HAVE 12 DOLLARS, DUMBASS.”
Well, if someone breaks their leg in a freak accident, BOOM, there goes your entire future.
Now, plenty of people are broke without it being their fault. And I’m not saying it’s anyone’s fault that the Fediverse/Lemmy is currently too small to guarantee its survival…but that’s the fact. It’s too small to be safe. It’s INCREDIBLE that I am having to patiently explain this obvious shit to so many angry people.
EDIT: to be fair, I actually have every confidence that the Fediverse/Lemmy WILL show an increase in growth, and will probably survive, at least for several upcoming years. But some of y’all are like “NUUUUU, I THINK IT SHOULD STAY SMALL, THERE’S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.” Nah, man. It can’t stay this small. It’s not sustainable for it to stay this small.
What? You’re saying we need to grow faster because at.under 2k users a day we’ll die of old age to fast?
The average coomer that would lurk on a reddit porn sub probably doesn’t know nitter exists. If they already made a reddit account just for porn, they’d do the same on twitter, insta, fucking google+, any of the most popular options. Most couldn’t care less about privacy beyond incognito. All they want is the porn, and they’ll do the bare minimum to get it
I think you underestimate how savvy an actual addicted coomer is (source: am former hoarder and recovering coomer; I first learned of nitter from lurking in subreddits…) I have an X acc if I really wanted to see stuff but I ain’t checking that one instead of like ten other site accounts for recent ‘news’. The kind of bare minimum user you describe wouldn’t even scroll past page two of subreddits or phub, much less care about X when it doesn’t even let you preview what you’d sign up for.
I’ll admit, I’ve never used twitter in my life except for linking account data to mobile games. But I assume that you just search 18+ or naked boob and you get accounts to follow and see on your timeline immediately after opening the app again
Unless Elong has really gone wildin’, they don’t allow straight-up gonewild posts on Twix. If /r/gonewild gets banned/censored/otherwise crippled, millions of people from that subreddit will come here, as long as they are told about it.
We just all need to spread the word.
I think the dump part of the pump and dump will happen the second insiders can sell. Seems on brand.
Why should I use Lemmy or https://reddit.com for consuming pornography rather than https://danbooru.donmai.us/ or https://gelbooru.com/ or https://e-hentai.org/ or https://realbooru.com/ or even https://pixiv.net or https://www.deviantart.com/ or https://pornhub.com
The differences I see between link aggregator websites and those websites are that link aggregators have worse discoverability (it’s useful to have tags to search for and a hyperlink to the original source of a piece of content) and comment threading (and comments on pornography are basically useless to me). I don’t see how directing people looking for pornography to a link aggregator website rather than a website dedicated to providing it will be helpful to me.
helpful to me
And here we have a problem. You’re doing a very good job of describing what YOU want. You want pornography. The kind you can find on danbooru.
Are you a random girl who wants to post her tits and/or vag on /r/gonewild? Or are you a guy who wants to post his dong? Do they even allow random users to post their nudes on danbooru? Maybe they do, but not at all in the same format as /r/gonewild.
I’m asserting that Reddit will shortly ban and/or heavily restrict explicit user content, over on their platform, as an indirect consequence of becoming a public company. Nobody has control of that, other than the Reddit board, corporate officers, and shareholders. I’m using the “brace yourselves” meme to indicate that this will kick off a flood of users, fleeing to the Fediverse/Lemmy, because we are a direct replacement for Reddit.
If you haven’t noticed that, I can only say that I am confused. That’s what the platform was made to be. It works exactly like Reddit, but with several logical improvements (you can edit post titles after you’ve made a post, embedding images in replies is somewhat easier, the system isn’t owned by a single monolithic authority that can destroy communities on a whim, etc).
On the one hand, I am suggesting that the influx of new users can be a positive thing, to ensure the healthy growth of this platform. On the other hand, I am literally saying “brace yourselves,” because the wave of crazy shit is coming.
But I’m seeing several people responding like you, with this confusing attitude of “UHH, BUT THAT’S NOT WHAT I NECESSARILY WANT.” Well, yeah, that’s part of why I said “BRACE YOURSELVES.” Ned Stark was saying “Winter is coming” as an ominous portent, not an advertisement.
I mean, I actually happen to enjoy anonymous tits and pussy, but you do you.
Relevance
I discovered that this discussion is probably moot, based on looking at https://join-lemmy.org/instances and loading 6 of the first “Random” Lemmy servers and 6 of the “Most active” Lemmy servers:
- The “Random” servers:
- https://sub.wetshaving.social/ and https://leminal.space/ display “No pornography.” prominently on their main pages.
- The “Code de conduite” of https://lemmy.tedomum.net/ (https://tedomum.net/documentation/general/cgu/) contains text that expresses they don’t want to host pornography (“Représentation du corps : contenu pornographique ou représentation choquante du corps sans avertissement préalable.”).
- The locally featured “Instance policies - PLEASE READ” post on https://lemmy.whynotdrs.org (https://lemmy.whynotdrs.org/post/1209) contains text that expresses they probably don’t want to host pornography (“The primary focus and scope of our instance is subjects relating to GameStop, household investors participating in US stock markets, direct registration, holding the financial industry/Wall Street accountable, and/or related economic and financial topics. Although we do not intend to censor discussion, and will not enforce around any stance or viewpoint within this scope, we may prevent or remove communities with an out-of-scope topic from hosting themselves on our Lemmy instance.”).
- https://lemy.lol/ displayed “Limited porn” after I clicked on “Rules” on the main page.
- The web page associated to the text “Our Instance rules are here” on https://reddthat.com (https://reddthat.com/post/9701) seems to express pornography is allowed, though “porn” is not currently discussed in any detail (“We are a NSFW enabled instance, which means there may be NSFW content in the Local and All categories if you leave NSFW enabled in your account.”).
- The “Most active” servers:
- https://lemmy.world/ does not seem to explicitly ban all pornography, though it doesn’t seem to be a large amount of its content based on a search for “porn”.
- I expect https://lemmynsfw.com/ allows and encourages distributing pornography.
- https://lemm.ee/ displays “No pornography” prominently on its main page.
- https://lemmy.ml/ displays “No porn.” prominently on its main page.
- https://feddit.de/ displays “Keine Pornografie / Adult Content” prominently on its main page.
- https://hexbear.net/ does not seem to explicitly ban all pornography, though it doesn’t seem to be a large amount of its content based on a search for “porn”.
Based on this survey, this discussion is only relevant on between 2/6 to 3/6 of all servers, and is not very relevant on more than 5/6 of all servers.
Overall response
I think you didn’t answer my question (“Why should I use Lemmy […] for consuming pornography”).
The post title is “REMEMBER TO SPREAD THE WORD! THE PLATFORM THAT HAS THE PORN ALWAYS WINS!” and the post body is “Start telling people now, over on reddit. BEFORE they start cracking down. That way, everyone will know, and the growth will happen even more rapidly.”. I am suggesting that you NOT “spread the word” or “Start telling people now” in regards to people who want to distribute pornography. I don’t think you addressed that suggestion, though I did not make it explicit in my original reply.
Also, you may have been misled about the role of pornography in the popularity of standards or services. https://youtu.be/hWl9Wux7iVY?si=qgyQRKQmXf72ZK63&t=831 has more information about this topic.
I don’t think it’s important to put any amount of energy into discussing this topic, since our expressions are unlikely to directly affect any policy on a large majority of Lemmy instances. I do appreciate your response though, since we can’t influence policy at all if we’re silent, and I don’t want to unnecessarily make it harder to contribute to making policies!
Specific responses
You’re doing a very good job of describing what YOU want.
Thank you, I’m glad you think I managed to express myself well!
My attention cannot be used as effectively to express other people’s desires as it can to express my own desires, so it’s probably best if we each express our personal desires and then consider each other’s comments in order to make decisions that will benefit us. The primary purpose of policy documentation should be to benefit someone, and preferably to benefit a large number of people.
Are you a random girl who wants to post her tits and/or vag on /r/gonewild? Or are you a guy who wants to post his dong?
No, I’m not. I don’t think we should use energy considering their desires; I think we should use more energy considering the ideas shared by people who are using Lemmy right now, as I doubt the people who currently do not use Lemmy will contribute resources to maintaining Lemmy servers in the next month, and communities surely benefit more from consistent support than from uncertain amounts of support, and I see that many servers are explicitly hostile to people who want to distribute pornography. If you want to consider the desires of people who don’t use Lemmy, making it easier for them to find relevant servers may be useful.
Do they even allow random users to post their nudes on danbooru?
The answer is probably no, but I also mentioned pornhub, and I see https://www.pornhub.com/albums which I think will be more effective to use to “allow random users to post their nudes” than Lemmy servers, as they are financially incentivized to host that content and pornhub probably has more competent management than the vast majority of Lemmy servers do (due to having a larger number of people managing it, if nothing else).
I’m asserting that Reddit will shortly ban and/or heavily restrict explicit user content […] That’s what the platform was made to be. […] On the one hand, I am suggesting that the influx of new users can be a positive thing, to ensure the healthy growth of this platform. […]
I agree with the sentiments you expressed. I agree that more people will use Lemmy as time passes, and that the rate of change of people using Lemmy can be affected by Reddit Inc. I agree Lemmy is a suitable replacement for Reddit and is an improvement for me. More people using Lemmy would probably be good for me. I also agree that having a large increase in the number of people using Lemmy will likely cause more discomfort in the short term due to new users’ lack of familiarity with existing culture.
If you haven’t noticed [that [Reddit will shortly ban and/or heavily restrict explicit user content] will kick off a flood of users], I can only say that I am confused.
I did notice that because you expressed it with the image attached to your post. You also gave me instructions by using the words “REMEMBER” and “Start”, and I’m expressing that I don’t want to follow those instructions and I’m urging other people to also not follow those instructions.
brace yourselves
I probably won’t have to, because the server I use clearly has a rule that pornography isn’t allowed, so I probably won’t have to deal with people posting pornography anytime soon.
I mean, I actually happen to enjoy anonymous tits and pussy, but you do you.
I prefer my pornography to have documentation about how it was sourced. That way it’s easier to find it if I want to see it again.
- The “Random” servers:
