Anyone who eats meat is a murderer. I eat meat but only what’s hunted myself so I can be sure that animal wasn’t raised to die or all the other animal rights violations that come with the farming industry. I wouldn’t mind being hunted by a human or a bear aslong as I had a decent life and was able to experience things like freedom and they didn’t use any tools that I consider to be unfair like guns (knives and bows are okay but I prefer handmaking them on site) so the argument of “but what if u were the animal” doesn’t work for me because that’s how I got to this position.
I’m writing this mainly cause I’m curious abt your thoughts on my position. Do u think I’m as bad as farm industry users because I don’t mind eating meat, do u think I’m just a bit depressed and/or psychopathic because I wouldnt mind dying and killing or do u think my position is actually reasonable but its just not how u personally view the issue.
I also have autism and have tried alot of vegan products. I’m not lying when I say I would starve if only given those to eat. Nuts do work for protein but I sorta binge eat them because they taste incredibly good and I think I developed a mild allergy so I don’t wanna eat them too often in case it gets worse
Edit: I’ve starved myself for weeks before on things like school trips simply because there wasn’t any food I could eat so when I say couldn’t I’m not exaggerating
Edit 2: I tried eating nuts for protein because I don’t eat enough but I think I developed some form of allergy because I binge ate them because I liked them so much. I’ve tried other solutions just a heads up
I have sensory issues. Autism is a sensory disability which can cause sensory overload from things like bright lights, loud sounds or even certain textures like baked beans. I literally cannot live a normal life and just do things like eat baked beans in the same way a depressed person can’t just be happy
The only foods I’ve eaten in the past few weeks is bread sometimes I have it with tomato. I am an extremely picky eater and not by choice
Edit: I’m actually curious abt this because I struggle to believe someone doesn’t know what autism is especially on lemmy but would u rather me starve because of a condition that I have no control over?
I know what autism is and I of course don’t want you to starve, I just had no idea what you meant when you said that you couldn’t eat beans because of it.
FWIW I don’t like eating baked beans by themselves, either. Are you okay with beans as an ingredient, like in soup, chili, or burritos?
I don’t like soup or chilli, I haven’t tried burritos. I’d imagine I’d like just the bread bit and with tomatoes but the more ingredients added the less likely I’d be able to eat it. Tbh I don’t like complex foods in general they “confuse” my taste buds if that makes sense. Adding food to mask the flavours and textures of another food is more likely to make me associate the liked food with the disliked food and begin disliking the previously liked one rather than make it tolerable
Well I wouldn’t mind dying even by a human if it was in the same way I hunt. So r u telling me its fine? I’d very much doubt that’s what u mean from the (perceived) tone, but ur acc words are saying that cause I did mention before I don’t really mind dying like that yk it’s fair and I had a chance to survive it’s just natural selection at that point. I wouldn’t enjoy it for sure and def not in the moment but I wouldn’t care all that much either infact I’d probably prefer to be killed by an animal so that my body can be eaten and reused as fuel for plants and animals rather than wasted.
I know how to make and use a knife, stake and bow. Bows are a bit fuckey because u have to use intestine. Stakes are the easiest to make albeit they’re a bit difficult to use emotionally. I prefer knives and I try to make them as sharp as possible to minimise pain.
Also before your invalidate my sensory issues and autism by extension like everyone else has. I’ve starved myself for weeks before, the only food I’ve eaten in the past few weeks is bread sometimes with tomato so yk im not starving myself entirely now but I don’t get enough of some essential nutrients. I pass out whenever I stand up most likely because my diet is so restrictive. My nails are all brittle af most likely from a combination of nail biting and various deficiencies. I look like a stick even tho I work out because I’m just not eating well enough to reap those benefits from it and this effects my self image quite a bit althought its certainly not the main thing. Nutrients are what your body fuels itself on and I’ve been running on empty my whole life and not by my own fucking choice so don’t say it is when u very obviously haven’t experienced what it’s like
I can’t without killing animals It’s quite hard for me to do so tho because I want to make sure that I feel the full weight of that act so I usually just don’t eat meat which is pretty much essential in my case for decent protein intake
Edit: I have found a new potential solution. Grinding pumpkin seeds into powder and baking them into bread I’m actually feeling quite optimistic abt this one
If some type of tool using primate used tools to murder me for food that would feel fair to me even if I didn’t have tools on hand. They would have an advantage in that situation however it was by better utilising using the same environment that I am in against me. I don’t consider that unfair even if they dont have the capabilities to use the environment in that way as I wouldn’t consider a bear smashing my head with a rock heavier than I could lift as unfair.
Edit: I just noticed that u likened me to animal abusers and wtf bro I know my opinions can come off as a bit psychopathic at first but I do genuinely care abt the suffering and try to minimise as much as possible. I have tried vegan protein alternatives but they don’t give you enough to be healthy or I would rather starve than eat them which is most likely caused by my sensory issues and autism which I can’t control
I just want to chime in and say it is interesting to find a hunter in every vegan thread like this, even though i have not met one irl (i guess because i live in a huge ass city).
also it’s totally not scalable to our large populations. we need to find solutions that are good for the environment and also can be applied to everyone.
(yes, a very small minority of people can only eat meat)
God isn’t real and you don’t need meat. The only argument is whether or not you’re fine with murdering others for your taste pleasure. It’s a yes or a no, very simple.
I don’t treat them like property except for my dog ig but I also doubt I’d murder my dog because of the emotional bong the same way a bear wouldn’t murder its cub. I’m only okay with murdering them whenever they have a fair chance (e.g. no guns or other weapons you can’t make on site), they’re adults and they’re wild born and haven’t been held in captivity. I’d be okay with being murdered on those terms so I assume animals would be too
I’m a bit depressed yk haven’t lived the happiest life so maybe I don’t care abt death as much as other but I am genuinely okay with being murdered like that atleast I had a fair chance. I also think you should avoid it where possible but if u have sensory issues like I do and u haven’t found a food that works as a protein intake source then yea go for it. If someine came to me and I could tell they were emotionally distraught about how they can’t eat anything other than meat for a decent source of protein I’d be okay with them eating me and i wouldnt want to die solely for it but it would feel noble in a way so I’d prefer that death to a random one. I’d also be okay with a bear eating me for sustenance even tho I assume it doesnt feel bad abt it so I assume others would feel the same too including animals. Id prefer to eat human meat if there wasnt any health risks and it consented and was legal however its not. My position is solely based on “what would I want done to me?” It’s just my opinions of that are obviously very different from the average vegans. I don’t really eat meat often because I’m able to recognise the suffering that comes with it because of my practices around it.
The problem is regardless of how or when you take an animal’s life you’re still taking an animal’s life. You clearly view them as less than human instead of viewing them as having the same right to life as anyone/anything else.
You can and do choose to eat meat when it isn’t required to sustain you.
I wouldn’t mind dying under those circumstances. I’m treating the animal as I’d want to be treated myself. How am I viewing them as sub-human? I personally wouldn’t kill even a consenting human because of laws but I’d rather eat consenting human meat assuming it was safe ans ethically sourced (e.g. not a company that gets you to sign a misleading agreement).
Edit: Infact when I die I want to be thrown in a forest and eaten by animals and absorbed by the ground though I imagine there’s laws preventing this
If they consented, sure. I wouldn’t care abt someone killing me if I consented to the act and method and they didn’t like manipulate into consenting.
Edit: I’d include depressed people as predatory like the way child sex is
Edit 2: I’d also feel emotions for sure but morally it’s better than killing animals because Idk whether the animal consented so I’d push through it because its the better option even if it is harder
Do u normally armchair diagnose people because I’m curious abt whether you’ve thought abt the harmful effects of telling people “you don’t have X, in reality you have Y” although I guess I wouldn’t care abt harming people becsuse I’m a sociopath
So do u just not care abt the harmful effects saying things like that can have? Now these examples didnt happen because I know I’m autistic and not a sociopath theyre also quite extreme but theyre still possible and theyre more likely for people with mental illness which u requested i get checked for.
Say I had taken your message to heart because I didn’t want to accept myself as autistic because of the social stigma around it and decided to stop getting any support at all because it meant I had to accept I was autistic. Would u feel okay abt that?
Say I had taken your message to heart and I really started believing I was a sociopath and went around to different doctors begging them for a sociopath diagnosis until they either give me one or I die. Would u feel okay abt that? Because you just implied you would be
Imma preface this by saying I’m talking abt a very small section of the population.
I don’t think we could really get rid of meat eating entirely. I mean 100% all the people who do it because its the “best” source of protein or just because they prefer it over other things however there is actual medical conditions like arfid and autism that could cause people to have the only logical source of protein be meat. I myself am autistic and I try to avoid meat where I can because I wouldnt enjoy dying and know animals wouldnt however none of the other solutions ive tried could work long term hence why ive tried finding ways to minimise the harm. My diet is just overall very restrictive in the past few weeks ive basically just eaten various bread products sometimes plain sometimes with tomato. I’m not saying you are cause u honestly come off as quite civil but I’ve noticed a tendency for online vegans to get quite aggressive over the issue which feels (this is a very strong word but I can’t think of a better one) almost ableistic to me as if some autistic people could never be morally correct. If u listened to the end of my wee rant, thank you.
I have autism and arfid. And I fundamentally do not believe in the premise that there exists any disability that forces you to harm or kill others. Except for vampirism. But we all know that Dracula deserves to die for being a bloodsucking rapey murderer, regardless of whether he has a choice. If I believed a disability could force someone to be evil, then I would be forced to believe in treating those people like Dracula. Thankfully, I reject the premise, and believe that powerful technologies of the physical and mental can overcome anything.
Well fundamentally sure I agree but realistically nah. I can’t really spend all day just researching and trying new foods for time and financial reasons. If I could I would but the only logical option I’ve found so far is meat. I haven’t eaten it in months and I almost definitely do need protein but it is hard for me to kill animals so I do try and avoid it but its stopping me from eating healthy. I’d genuinely rather just not get enough protein and expeirence protein deficiency than eat the vegan alternatives for it because all the ones I’ve tried r that bad to me.
Are potatoes and ramen not safe foods for you? I love them. Also, I recently tried Tofu out, and it is the blandest thing I have tasted in my life, which means it’s perfect. I just slap on whatever sauces and spices I want, and the texture is so so inoffensive.
The recommended amount of protein per meal is 15-30g. Potatoes have 3.1 grams of protein per serving. Ramen has 8 grams per serving so its better however every source I find even vegans ones warn against using solely ramen noodles for protein. The vegan ones say to add things ik i dont like including tofu which was too chewy. I don’t eat most meats becsuse of the chewiness too.
I don’t like the texture although I could see it working if I blended them, sieved it to get powder and then baked it into bread. The only potential issue I see there is if it makes the bread powdery but I doubt it would considering bread includes alot of powder already so I’ll try that.
Yea this is basically my current position on meat eating. In the most likely far future I’d probably rather animal farming everywhere to be banned however ud need to ensure the people who depend on it can still eat which could be hard to do in the present for various reasons. Same with hunting I’d prolly rather that be banned and have specialised dieticians for people with sensory issues who would be able to dedicate time to finding a food that works for people rather than the other person having to interrupt their life for it.
Anyone who eats meat is a murderer. I eat meat but only what’s hunted myself so I can be sure that animal wasn’t raised to die or all the other animal rights violations that come with the farming industry. I wouldn’t mind being hunted by a human or a bear aslong as I had a decent life and was able to experience things like freedom and they didn’t use any tools that I consider to be unfair like guns (knives and bows are okay but I prefer handmaking them on site) so the argument of “but what if u were the animal” doesn’t work for me because that’s how I got to this position.
I’m writing this mainly cause I’m curious abt your thoughts on my position. Do u think I’m as bad as farm industry users because I don’t mind eating meat, do u think I’m just a bit depressed and/or psychopathic because I wouldnt mind dying and killing or do u think my position is actually reasonable but its just not how u personally view the issue.
That’s all you needed to say
I also have autism and have tried alot of vegan products. I’m not lying when I say I would starve if only given those to eat. Nuts do work for protein but I sorta binge eat them because they taste incredibly good and I think I developed a mild allergy so I don’t wanna eat them too often in case it gets worse
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You’re fine with hurting animals, you sound silly when you lie. Outsourcing the murder doesn’t absolve you of guilt.
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@tygerprints @BonesOfTheMoon @neurospice @Dontfearthereaper123 @toomanypancakes Plants don’t have nervous systems, we know that.
That’s a lot of words to not say anything.
Honestly hilarious, you people are scripted I swear.
simply learn to cook. it’s one trick that carnists hate.
Yes you’re still bad because you could literally just eat beans but you go out and intentionally murder animals instead.
I have autism I couldn’t eat beans
Edit: I’ve starved myself for weeks before on things like school trips simply because there wasn’t any food I could eat so when I say couldn’t I’m not exaggerating
Edit 2: I tried eating nuts for protein because I don’t eat enough but I think I developed some form of allergy because I binge ate them because I liked them so much. I’ve tried other solutions just a heads up
What?
I have sensory issues. Autism is a sensory disability which can cause sensory overload from things like bright lights, loud sounds or even certain textures like baked beans. I literally cannot live a normal life and just do things like eat baked beans in the same way a depressed person can’t just be happy
The only foods I’ve eaten in the past few weeks is bread sometimes I have it with tomato. I am an extremely picky eater and not by choice
Edit: I’m actually curious abt this because I struggle to believe someone doesn’t know what autism is especially on lemmy but would u rather me starve because of a condition that I have no control over?
I know what autism is and I of course don’t want you to starve, I just had no idea what you meant when you said that you couldn’t eat beans because of it.
FWIW I don’t like eating baked beans by themselves, either. Are you okay with beans as an ingredient, like in soup, chili, or burritos?
I don’t like soup or chilli, I haven’t tried burritos. I’d imagine I’d like just the bread bit and with tomatoes but the more ingredients added the less likely I’d be able to eat it. Tbh I don’t like complex foods in general they “confuse” my taste buds if that makes sense. Adding food to mask the flavours and textures of another food is more likely to make me associate the liked food with the disliked food and begin disliking the previously liked one rather than make it tolerable
I think you’re still murdering an animal who wanted to live his life just as much as anyone.
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Well I wouldn’t mind dying even by a human if it was in the same way I hunt. So r u telling me its fine? I’d very much doubt that’s what u mean from the (perceived) tone, but ur acc words are saying that cause I did mention before I don’t really mind dying like that yk it’s fair and I had a chance to survive it’s just natural selection at that point. I wouldn’t enjoy it for sure and def not in the moment but I wouldn’t care all that much either infact I’d probably prefer to be killed by an animal so that my body can be eaten and reused as fuel for plants and animals rather than wasted.
so you only hunt with your bare hands?
I know how to make and use a knife, stake and bow. Bows are a bit fuckey because u have to use intestine. Stakes are the easiest to make albeit they’re a bit difficult to use emotionally. I prefer knives and I try to make them as sharp as possible to minimise pain.
so how is that a fair fight? Why do you use technology rather than your natural powers?
Sounds like you are just like all the other animal abusers.
Also before your invalidate my sensory issues and autism by extension like everyone else has. I’ve starved myself for weeks before, the only food I’ve eaten in the past few weeks is bread sometimes with tomato so yk im not starving myself entirely now but I don’t get enough of some essential nutrients. I pass out whenever I stand up most likely because my diet is so restrictive. My nails are all brittle af most likely from a combination of nail biting and various deficiencies. I look like a stick even tho I work out because I’m just not eating well enough to reap those benefits from it and this effects my self image quite a bit althought its certainly not the main thing. Nutrients are what your body fuels itself on and I’ve been running on empty my whole life and not by my own fucking choice so don’t say it is when u very obviously haven’t experienced what it’s like
look after yourself bro
I can’t without killing animals It’s quite hard for me to do so tho because I want to make sure that I feel the full weight of that act so I usually just don’t eat meat which is pretty much essential in my case for decent protein intake
Edit: I have found a new potential solution. Grinding pumpkin seeds into powder and baking them into bread I’m actually feeling quite optimistic abt this one
If some type of tool using primate used tools to murder me for food that would feel fair to me even if I didn’t have tools on hand. They would have an advantage in that situation however it was by better utilising using the same environment that I am in against me. I don’t consider that unfair even if they dont have the capabilities to use the environment in that way as I wouldn’t consider a bear smashing my head with a rock heavier than I could lift as unfair.
Edit: I just noticed that u likened me to animal abusers and wtf bro I know my opinions can come off as a bit psychopathic at first but I do genuinely care abt the suffering and try to minimise as much as possible. I have tried vegan protein alternatives but they don’t give you enough to be healthy or I would rather starve than eat them which is most likely caused by my sensory issues and autism which I can’t control
I just want to chime in and say it is interesting to find a hunter in every vegan thread like this, even though i have not met one irl (i guess because i live in a huge ass city).
also it’s totally not scalable to our large populations. we need to find solutions that are good for the environment and also can be applied to everyone.
(yes, a very small minority of people can only eat meat)
I live in the countryside of a sparsely populated but very small country. I would imagine location is a fairly big factor
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God isn’t real and you don’t need meat. The only argument is whether or not you’re fine with murdering others for your taste pleasure. It’s a yes or a no, very simple.
I don’t treat them like property except for my dog ig but I also doubt I’d murder my dog because of the emotional bong the same way a bear wouldn’t murder its cub. I’m only okay with murdering them whenever they have a fair chance (e.g. no guns or other weapons you can’t make on site), they’re adults and they’re wild born and haven’t been held in captivity. I’d be okay with being murdered on those terms so I assume animals would be too
you are a bit ridiculous.
I’m a bit depressed yk haven’t lived the happiest life so maybe I don’t care abt death as much as other but I am genuinely okay with being murdered like that atleast I had a fair chance. I also think you should avoid it where possible but if u have sensory issues like I do and u haven’t found a food that works as a protein intake source then yea go for it. If someine came to me and I could tell they were emotionally distraught about how they can’t eat anything other than meat for a decent source of protein I’d be okay with them eating me and i wouldnt want to die solely for it but it would feel noble in a way so I’d prefer that death to a random one. I’d also be okay with a bear eating me for sustenance even tho I assume it doesnt feel bad abt it so I assume others would feel the same too including animals. Id prefer to eat human meat if there wasnt any health risks and it consented and was legal however its not. My position is solely based on “what would I want done to me?” It’s just my opinions of that are obviously very different from the average vegans. I don’t really eat meat often because I’m able to recognise the suffering that comes with it because of my practices around it.
The problem is regardless of how or when you take an animal’s life you’re still taking an animal’s life. You clearly view them as less than human instead of viewing them as having the same right to life as anyone/anything else.
You can and do choose to eat meat when it isn’t required to sustain you.
I wouldn’t mind dying under those circumstances. I’m treating the animal as I’d want to be treated myself. How am I viewing them as sub-human? I personally wouldn’t kill even a consenting human because of laws but I’d rather eat consenting human meat assuming it was safe ans ethically sourced (e.g. not a company that gets you to sign a misleading agreement).
Edit: Infact when I die I want to be thrown in a forest and eaten by animals and absorbed by the ground though I imagine there’s laws preventing this
You wouldn’t kill a human because of laws? This implies you would kill humans if it weren’t illegal…
I didn’t think autism is your real problem… You might be a sociopath.
If they consented, sure. I wouldn’t care abt someone killing me if I consented to the act and method and they didn’t like manipulate into consenting.
Edit: I’d include depressed people as predatory like the way child sex is
Edit 2: I’d also feel emotions for sure but morally it’s better than killing animals because Idk whether the animal consented so I’d push through it because its the better option even if it is harder
Man, listen… I mean what I’m about to say… You need to talk to a professional.
Do u normally armchair diagnose people because I’m curious abt whether you’ve thought abt the harmful effects of telling people “you don’t have X, in reality you have Y” although I guess I wouldn’t care abt harming people becsuse I’m a sociopath
Well any concern I had for you and those around you is gone now.
So do u just not care abt the harmful effects saying things like that can have? Now these examples didnt happen because I know I’m autistic and not a sociopath theyre also quite extreme but theyre still possible and theyre more likely for people with mental illness which u requested i get checked for.
Say I had taken your message to heart because I didn’t want to accept myself as autistic because of the social stigma around it and decided to stop getting any support at all because it meant I had to accept I was autistic. Would u feel okay abt that?
Say I had taken your message to heart and I really started believing I was a sociopath and went around to different doctors begging them for a sociopath diagnosis until they either give me one or I die. Would u feel okay abt that? Because you just implied you would be
I already have. Any other suggestions?
Slavery is worse than murder. In an ideal world we would end murder as well, but I consider it less horrible.
Imma preface this by saying I’m talking abt a very small section of the population.
I don’t think we could really get rid of meat eating entirely. I mean 100% all the people who do it because its the “best” source of protein or just because they prefer it over other things however there is actual medical conditions like arfid and autism that could cause people to have the only logical source of protein be meat. I myself am autistic and I try to avoid meat where I can because I wouldnt enjoy dying and know animals wouldnt however none of the other solutions ive tried could work long term hence why ive tried finding ways to minimise the harm. My diet is just overall very restrictive in the past few weeks ive basically just eaten various bread products sometimes plain sometimes with tomato. I’m not saying you are cause u honestly come off as quite civil but I’ve noticed a tendency for online vegans to get quite aggressive over the issue which feels (this is a very strong word but I can’t think of a better one) almost ableistic to me as if some autistic people could never be morally correct. If u listened to the end of my wee rant, thank you.
I have autism and arfid. And I fundamentally do not believe in the premise that there exists any disability that forces you to harm or kill others. Except for vampirism. But we all know that Dracula deserves to die for being a bloodsucking rapey murderer, regardless of whether he has a choice. If I believed a disability could force someone to be evil, then I would be forced to believe in treating those people like Dracula. Thankfully, I reject the premise, and believe that powerful technologies of the physical and mental can overcome anything.
Well fundamentally sure I agree but realistically nah. I can’t really spend all day just researching and trying new foods for time and financial reasons. If I could I would but the only logical option I’ve found so far is meat. I haven’t eaten it in months and I almost definitely do need protein but it is hard for me to kill animals so I do try and avoid it but its stopping me from eating healthy. I’d genuinely rather just not get enough protein and expeirence protein deficiency than eat the vegan alternatives for it because all the ones I’ve tried r that bad to me.
Are potatoes and ramen not safe foods for you? I love them. Also, I recently tried Tofu out, and it is the blandest thing I have tasted in my life, which means it’s perfect. I just slap on whatever sauces and spices I want, and the texture is so so inoffensive.
The recommended amount of protein per meal is 15-30g. Potatoes have 3.1 grams of protein per serving. Ramen has 8 grams per serving so its better however every source I find even vegans ones warn against using solely ramen noodles for protein. The vegan ones say to add things ik i dont like including tofu which was too chewy. I don’t eat most meats becsuse of the chewiness too.
Pumpkin seeds
I don’t like the texture although I could see it working if I blended them, sieved it to get powder and then baked it into bread. The only potential issue I see there is if it makes the bread powdery but I doubt it would considering bread includes alot of powder already so I’ll try that.
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Yea this is basically my current position on meat eating. In the most likely far future I’d probably rather animal farming everywhere to be banned however ud need to ensure the people who depend on it can still eat which could be hard to do in the present for various reasons. Same with hunting I’d prolly rather that be banned and have specialised dieticians for people with sensory issues who would be able to dedicate time to finding a food that works for people rather than the other person having to interrupt their life for it.
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