I think a lot of conservative “Christians” think that if they pretend like they are following the way of Christ according to their bastardized version where they hate queer people, that they’ll somehow be able to declare themselves right and be able to stay the mean shits that they are. When in reality Jesus would not approve of their behaviour at all.
Edited to add: I actually practice Christianity and go to a very progressive church. I love queer people, I think conservatives are a cancer on society, and I believe in birth control and abortion rights like I invented them. I am not wild about Jesus or the Bible, and I mostly attend because I believe in a God and I think attending a community space where we want to be better humans together in a happy and life giving way is a vital part of life. I do not in any way expect people to believe what I do and I welcome most points of view, conservative trash and Nazis excluded. I have sort of a gnostic view I guess where I think intelligence and the ability to act accordingly is what saves you as a human.
But everything conservatives are doing religiously to me is utter self serving rotten trash.
I’m a “progressive” Christian as well. Quoting Bible verses to MAGA’s is a fun exercise. They often get this guilty looking expression for a minute and then just kind of shake it off and go back to whatever hypocritical BS they were up to before.
More of the right will identify as Christian’s but the left is much closer to the teachings of Jesus because the fruits of the spirit are: love, compassion, empathy, understanding, kindness, gentleness, truthfulness, brotherhood, forbearance, faith, joy, just to name a few.
When thinking of those “fruits” not many people think of the conservative Christian’s. It bothers me more than anything they hide behind their “beliefs” to push their personal agenda that goes directly against the teachings of Jesus. Gives Christianity a bad name, then again I would say each religion has it’s own group of extremist that make the whole look bad.
I am so far left I got my guns back, as the saying goes, and I believe in radical kindness and love, but to those who wish the same, which is not the right.
I had a neighbor come to my door wanting to read some bible verses. I was initially combative because I’m trans and have a pride flag in my window and was ready to be preached to about how I’m a sinner. I’m not religious but we actually had a really nice conversation about exactly this. I told them that I don’t believe in Jesus but do believe in the message of the bible, being a loving and caring person to everybody, and how conservatives have completely twisted the meaning to attack people like me. They read me a couple verses supporting that and how conservatives go against everything the bible says. It really gave me hope and what I was expecting to ruin my day actually made it instead.
Honestly there’s some lovely Christians out there who love queer people without question. It absolutely does not have to be the conservative way. My church has gay people and two trans ladies, and the one time I overheard one of them talking to a bunch of the guys about the local football team. Like it absolutely does not have to mean a thing.
Sorry if this comes off as rude, but without Christ, you’re not a Christian. Christianity is the state of being saved, and you can’t good-person your way into salvation. There are three problems with that approach:
If you believe you can save yourself, that’s an issue of pride. How can your living works ever compare to God’s own son dying for you?
If you willfully ignore Christ’s salvation (the easier option) in favor of doing good works, that shows an unwillingness to repent of your sins.
If you try to meet God’s standards (or even just what you think they are) through your works, you’ll never catch up, and you’ll exhaust yourself.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying there’s no point in good works or being a good person. They’re the fruits, but they’re not the tree. You can put effort into showing fruits, but without the tree, it’s not going to do you any good in the long run. Or you can grow the tree, and if it’s real, the fruits will come naturally (and if they don’t, the tree is dead[1].)
It’s only by humility that you can come to salvation. You must recognize your sin and be willing to turn from it (and keep trying whenever you fail.) Otherwise, you’re ultimately not that different from the conservative politicians who pretend to be Christian while sticking to their hateful ways (only in your case, the ways in question might not be hateful.)
I say this not to condemn you, but in hope that you can be saved. Please don’t ignore it.
James 2:17, though on further consideration, the whole chapter is fairly relevant. ↩︎
Funny you mention this because I was about to bring it up but as a bad thing. They don’t care about Jesus or his teachings or any of that because they see the whole “all of your sins will be forgiven” as “I can do whatever I want and then just have to tell a priest about it before I die and then I get into heaven”. Why they think they can pull a fast one on a being they believe is omniscient is beyond me, best guess is maybe they have a really simplistic view of rules and think exploiting loopholes can be done in good faith?
The Bible actually has things to say about that mindset. Namely, if you think “I can go back to sin and just get forgiven afterwards no biggie,” and then do so, you’re not going to get forgiven (Hebrews 10.) But that doesn’t get preached much, probably because it’s easy to get it twisted and think that an inadvertent slip into sin will have the same effect.
The very surface level of Calvinism, being that God is sovereign in all, is something I agree with, but it includes predestination, which is where I take issue. Why would God not offer the same mercy to everyone? And when He does offer mercy to someone, why would He not let us choose? He is sovereign, yes, but He is also loving, and love is not forcing some people to become model citizens while letting others perish without ever having any hope of salvation.
I do believe predestination is technically true in that God already knows the future and knows who will or won’t ultimately be saved, but that doesn’t preclude free will being an operative part of what gets us there.
I think we’re in agreement here. God gives us chances to bear fruit, but throws out the branches that don’t. Predestination, as Calvinism describes it, says that He decides in advance whether they’re going to bear fruit, and those He wants to bear fruit do, and those He doesn’t never get the chance. I do not see that lining up with the idea that God is all-loving.
That being said, the Bible does say that nobody can come to Christ without God’s call, so I can see how that could be seen as predestination, but there have been those who felt the call and turned away, some of whom came around later. I think in some manner, it might be a warning that you can’t just decide “I’ll get saved when it’s more convenient for me,” because God doesn’t call at your convenience.
Is 20 a few? The idea of salvation being through Christ alone is literally in the Bible. What are you talking about? I’ve repented of my sins, and belief in the Bible is not a sin.
Are you talking Catholicism? Even then, you still have Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace, you have been saved through faith. And this is not of yourselves, for it is a gift of God. And this is not of works, so that no one may glory.” (CPDV) and James 2 still making it clear that faith without works is dead.
It’s false that your heresy has existed for 2000 years; it’s only been the last few hundred. Salvation is through the Church, not through Christ, and outside the church you’re damned. Sorry.
Mate, I don’t even have a frame of reference to understand where you’re coming from. Do you believe the Bible? What are you, Eastern Orthodox or something? Or are you trolling? I don’t want to assume ill intent, but I’d like to have something to go off of. The idea that mankind can save each other is preposterous to me. What do you think Jesus died for? And also I’m part of a church and I’ve seen God work in my life, so you’re going to have to be more specific if you’re going to say that’s not up to standards.
Of course you don’t have the right frame of reference to understand because your mind is steeped in heresy. You think you can steal the Bible from the religion that it belongs to and just decide what it means for yourself, but it doesn’t work that way. God ordained his Church as his representative in the world, and only through that Church can you be saved. The Church is the only one who can interpret the Bible, and outside the Church you stand condemned.
I wasn’t trying to “win” in the way you think I was yet. I was just trying to gather information.
My default assumption when someone claims to be saved is that they are until proven otherwise, but believing that the Church and not Christ is the source of salvation is a convincing proof otherwise from my perspective. But then my mind goes into “rebuke” mode and not “plant some seeds” mode, because people who consider themselves part of the Church should be open to rebuke (though of course I still try to be kind about it, that doesn’t come across easily over the net.)
For the sake of the rebuke, I wanted to understand what exactly they believe in so I could address it more directly, but that clearly wasn’t going anywhere. By their logic, I didn’t even have the right to ask because I’m not already part of whatever “Church” they’re a part of. Between their aggression and the fact that I’ve never heard of a belief system that lines up with what they were saying, I saw trolling as a likely possibility, moreso than I let on at this point. I suppose I could have tried for a little longer before bringing it up, but as you can see, I only asked, and then stated immediately afterwards that I didn’t want to assume ill intent.
So it wasn’t intended so much an accusation as a test of the waters, but I suppose it didn’t come off that way, and a troll wouldn’t answer that honestly, so the only purpose it served was to protect my own pride against the vision I had of someone laughing at their screen going “look how long I’m keeping this fool in an argument, and they don’t even suspect I’m trolling.” I’ll try to do better about that in the future.
As for the use of “preposterous,” I did add “to me” to soften it a bit, and this is clearly someone who’s able to handle that level of bluntness.
Thanks for your thoughts. I guess upon becoming sure that they were a troll, instead of calling them out to end it there, I should have shifted out of rebuking mode (since someone who’s pretending to be a Christian for trolling purposes is not going to be open to Christian rebuke,) and considered whether I was in a position to share my faith. In this case, I think I was, but it might be too late now. I’ll take another look tomorrow to see.
A lot of Christians don’t seem to like Jesus ethier. They just like the brand.
I think a lot of conservative “Christians” think that if they pretend like they are following the way of Christ according to their bastardized version where they hate queer people, that they’ll somehow be able to declare themselves right and be able to stay the mean shits that they are. When in reality Jesus would not approve of their behaviour at all.
Edited to add: I actually practice Christianity and go to a very progressive church. I love queer people, I think conservatives are a cancer on society, and I believe in birth control and abortion rights like I invented them. I am not wild about Jesus or the Bible, and I mostly attend because I believe in a God and I think attending a community space where we want to be better humans together in a happy and life giving way is a vital part of life. I do not in any way expect people to believe what I do and I welcome most points of view, conservative trash and Nazis excluded. I have sort of a gnostic view I guess where I think intelligence and the ability to act accordingly is what saves you as a human.
But everything conservatives are doing religiously to me is utter self serving rotten trash.
I’m a “progressive” Christian as well. Quoting Bible verses to MAGA’s is a fun exercise. They often get this guilty looking expression for a minute and then just kind of shake it off and go back to whatever hypocritical BS they were up to before.
It’s fascinating to watch.
It’s absolutely absurd. They’re so awful.
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It’s everything Jesus did not want, and that made up horseshit in Leviticus and Romans can go fuck itself.
This sounds like something I might want to read about, any chance you could drop some links or titles to what you’ve been reading?
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More of the right will identify as Christian’s but the left is much closer to the teachings of Jesus because the fruits of the spirit are: love, compassion, empathy, understanding, kindness, gentleness, truthfulness, brotherhood, forbearance, faith, joy, just to name a few.
When thinking of those “fruits” not many people think of the conservative Christian’s. It bothers me more than anything they hide behind their “beliefs” to push their personal agenda that goes directly against the teachings of Jesus. Gives Christianity a bad name, then again I would say each religion has it’s own group of extremist that make the whole look bad.
Edit: Spelling
I am so far left I got my guns back, as the saying goes, and I believe in radical kindness and love, but to those who wish the same, which is not the right.
This is why my church is down to like 10 members and we’re struggling to pay monthly bills.
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I had a neighbor come to my door wanting to read some bible verses. I was initially combative because I’m trans and have a pride flag in my window and was ready to be preached to about how I’m a sinner. I’m not religious but we actually had a really nice conversation about exactly this. I told them that I don’t believe in Jesus but do believe in the message of the bible, being a loving and caring person to everybody, and how conservatives have completely twisted the meaning to attack people like me. They read me a couple verses supporting that and how conservatives go against everything the bible says. It really gave me hope and what I was expecting to ruin my day actually made it instead.
Honestly there’s some lovely Christians out there who love queer people without question. It absolutely does not have to be the conservative way. My church has gay people and two trans ladies, and the one time I overheard one of them talking to a bunch of the guys about the local football team. Like it absolutely does not have to mean a thing.
Sorry if this comes off as rude, but without Christ, you’re not a Christian. Christianity is the state of being saved, and you can’t good-person your way into salvation. There are three problems with that approach:
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying there’s no point in good works or being a good person. They’re the fruits, but they’re not the tree. You can put effort into showing fruits, but without the tree, it’s not going to do you any good in the long run. Or you can grow the tree, and if it’s real, the fruits will come naturally (and if they don’t, the tree is dead[1].)
It’s only by humility that you can come to salvation. You must recognize your sin and be willing to turn from it (and keep trying whenever you fail.) Otherwise, you’re ultimately not that different from the conservative politicians who pretend to be Christian while sticking to their hateful ways (only in your case, the ways in question might not be hateful.)
I say this not to condemn you, but in hope that you can be saved. Please don’t ignore it.
James 2:17, though on further consideration, the whole chapter is fairly relevant. ↩︎
No gods are real
Funny you mention this because I was about to bring it up but as a bad thing. They don’t care about Jesus or his teachings or any of that because they see the whole “all of your sins will be forgiven” as “I can do whatever I want and then just have to tell a priest about it before I die and then I get into heaven”. Why they think they can pull a fast one on a being they believe is omniscient is beyond me, best guess is maybe they have a really simplistic view of rules and think exploiting loopholes can be done in good faith?
The Bible actually has things to say about that mindset. Namely, if you think “I can go back to sin and just get forgiven afterwards no biggie,” and then do so, you’re not going to get forgiven (Hebrews 10.) But that doesn’t get preached much, probably because it’s easy to get it twisted and think that an inadvertent slip into sin will have the same effect.
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The very surface level of Calvinism, being that God is sovereign in all, is something I agree with, but it includes predestination, which is where I take issue. Why would God not offer the same mercy to everyone? And when He does offer mercy to someone, why would He not let us choose? He is sovereign, yes, but He is also loving, and love is not forcing some people to become model citizens while letting others perish without ever having any hope of salvation.
I do believe predestination is technically true in that God already knows the future and knows who will or won’t ultimately be saved, but that doesn’t preclude free will being an operative part of what gets us there.
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I think we’re in agreement here. God gives us chances to bear fruit, but throws out the branches that don’t. Predestination, as Calvinism describes it, says that He decides in advance whether they’re going to bear fruit, and those He wants to bear fruit do, and those He doesn’t never get the chance. I do not see that lining up with the idea that God is all-loving.
That being said, the Bible does say that nobody can come to Christ without God’s call, so I can see how that could be seen as predestination, but there have been those who felt the call and turned away, some of whom came around later. I think in some manner, it might be a warning that you can’t just decide “I’ll get saved when it’s more convenient for me,” because God doesn’t call at your convenience.
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This is a made-up version of Christianity that didn’t exist until the last few hundred years. It’s heresy and unless you repent, you’re going to hell.
Is 20 a few? The idea of salvation being through Christ alone is literally in the Bible. What are you talking about? I’ve repented of my sins, and belief in the Bible is not a sin.
Are you talking Catholicism? Even then, you still have Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace, you have been saved through faith. And this is not of yourselves, for it is a gift of God. And this is not of works, so that no one may glory.” (CPDV) and James 2 still making it clear that faith without works is dead.
It’s false that your heresy has existed for 2000 years; it’s only been the last few hundred. Salvation is through the Church, not through Christ, and outside the church you’re damned. Sorry.
Mate, I don’t even have a frame of reference to understand where you’re coming from. Do you believe the Bible? What are you, Eastern Orthodox or something? Or are you trolling? I don’t want to assume ill intent, but I’d like to have something to go off of. The idea that mankind can save each other is preposterous to me. What do you think Jesus died for? And also I’m part of a church and I’ve seen God work in my life, so you’re going to have to be more specific if you’re going to say that’s not up to standards.
Of course you don’t have the right frame of reference to understand because your mind is steeped in heresy. You think you can steal the Bible from the religion that it belongs to and just decide what it means for yourself, but it doesn’t work that way. God ordained his Church as his representative in the world, and only through that Church can you be saved. The Church is the only one who can interpret the Bible, and outside the Church you stand condemned.
Which church? What is your version of Christianity called?
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I wasn’t trying to “win” in the way you think I was yet. I was just trying to gather information.
My default assumption when someone claims to be saved is that they are until proven otherwise, but believing that the Church and not Christ is the source of salvation is a convincing proof otherwise from my perspective. But then my mind goes into “rebuke” mode and not “plant some seeds” mode, because people who consider themselves part of the Church should be open to rebuke (though of course I still try to be kind about it, that doesn’t come across easily over the net.)
For the sake of the rebuke, I wanted to understand what exactly they believe in so I could address it more directly, but that clearly wasn’t going anywhere. By their logic, I didn’t even have the right to ask because I’m not already part of whatever “Church” they’re a part of. Between their aggression and the fact that I’ve never heard of a belief system that lines up with what they were saying, I saw trolling as a likely possibility, moreso than I let on at this point. I suppose I could have tried for a little longer before bringing it up, but as you can see, I only asked, and then stated immediately afterwards that I didn’t want to assume ill intent.
So it wasn’t intended so much an accusation as a test of the waters, but I suppose it didn’t come off that way, and a troll wouldn’t answer that honestly, so the only purpose it served was to protect my own pride against the vision I had of someone laughing at their screen going “look how long I’m keeping this fool in an argument, and they don’t even suspect I’m trolling.” I’ll try to do better about that in the future.
As for the use of “preposterous,” I did add “to me” to soften it a bit, and this is clearly someone who’s able to handle that level of bluntness.
Thanks for your thoughts. I guess upon becoming sure that they were a troll, instead of calling them out to end it there, I should have shifted out of rebuking mode (since someone who’s pretending to be a Christian for trolling purposes is not going to be open to Christian rebuke,) and considered whether I was in a position to share my faith. In this case, I think I was, but it might be too late now. I’ll take another look tomorrow to see.
Not ignoring it, I’m recently baptized even. It’s just not my comfort zone.
“Well, it was the result of having multiple pastors tell me essentially the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount parenthetically in their preaching - turn the other cheek - to have someone come up after and to say, where did you get those liberal talking points? And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, I’m literally quoting Jesus Christ, the response would not be, I apologize. The response would be, yes, but that doesn’t work anymore. That’s weak. And when we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we’re in a crisis.”
Same for the rest too.
They like trump because he’s a great “business man”. Yet he’s not.
They like kid rock because he’s a ‘country rock rebel.’ Nahh he’s just old and stale.
They like elon because he is a ‘genius.’ LOL no.
They just vibing and can’t be bothered to actually give a shit.
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That’s exactly the case. Christianity follows Paul, not Jesus, and only keeps the “Christ” part for marketing