I don’t disagree, but what entities funds and guide/influence them? They aren’t organizations acting on their own, they are puppets.
This does not in any way downplay the travesties that Palestinian people have been through, only to highlight how Iran has used their influence to control one side of the conflict.
They certainly have shared interests, but to consider them ‘puppets’ ignores their own agencies. Armed resistance against Settler Colonialism will exist regardless of whether they can secure funding from Iran or not. Iran has influence as the main supplier of weapons (most of Hamas’ capabilities come from reusing bombs dropped by Israel that failed to detonate), but they do not control the agency of Hamas or Hezbollah. They have their own reasons to fight back.
On the surface - perhaps. But Iran’s regime has to keep its image of power for its domestic peace. Israel’s gov knows this and they do steps they know would elicit response from Iran in the hopes Iran would actually hit hard and the US would be dragged in official capacity. That would be dramatically destabilizing for the region. I reckon the US threatened Israel with real steps in order to get them to not hit targets that would have led to such escalation.
By dismantling the apartheid, ending the occupation, getting the fuck on their side of their 1967 border, and recognizing the sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza. Plus, by handing over their war criminals to the ICC and starting a Truth and Reconciliation process. Throw in paying reparations, if they really want peace.
There. Instantly, 90% of Hamas and Hezbollah support has just evaporated. Their neighbours are ready to normalize relations with them. The vast majority of world public opinion is now solidly behind them.
I’d be quite fine with most of this, all of it if by “the occupation” you mean the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank. But, until peace is established there, that isn’t going to happen. The majority of Gazans support Hamas and believe they committed no atrocities on October 7th.
if by “the occupation” you mean the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank
Yes, exactly. Including the control of their borders of course.
until peace is established there, that isn’t going to happen
That’s entirely the wrong framing. Without these things happening, whatever it is that you think will be established, it won’t be “peace”, is is only a return to the oppressive status quo ante. It’s a cliché but in this conflict, quite literally “no justice, no peace”. My laundry list above is not a desirable outcome after some imaginary unjust “peace”. It is the precondition for peace. Without dismantling the apartheid, the occupation, etc, you’ll only have a temporary lull in the brutality and they go again.
With the number of rockets Hamas and Hezbollah has launched into Israel during “peacetime” while being supplied by Iran, they’re doing a great job of staying enemies.
Did you know that the Gazan bomb disposal teams are some of the most skilled in the world? The reason for this is so they can disarm and disassemble unexploded Israeli bombs so that the explosives can be repurposed and fired back. So a surprisingly large portion of the explosives that Hamas used were supplied by Israel via their long-term sporadic bombing of Gaza and anything resembling major infrastructure.
Well maybe Israel should stop its brutal, decades-long apartheid campaign that’s pissing off all of its neighbors and pre-dates Hamas by around 50 years.
Good job putting peacetime in quotes, because during that “peacetime” Israel was airstriking Gaza and blockading it. These are straight up acts of war and justify and demand retaliation. Also Hezbollah didn’t launch rockets on Israel before October 7th.
Into Lebanese (some consider it Syrian, doesn’t change the dynamic) occupied territory before and after Oct 7th. Gradual escalation (with 80% of those attacks coming from Israeli side) expanded the scale of the northern/southern front to what we see today. Israel has killed 2 orders of magnitude more civilians than Hezballah has and has sought escalation at every stage.
Before Oct 7th, they would exchange fire in occupied Lebanese land and tensions would rise then fizzle out about once a month.
They don’t have to go anywhere. They just don’t get a religious ethnostate any more. Let Palestine be a free democracy and they are welcome to live in a free society, no apartheid.
Calling the people you dislike “terrorists” to avoid critical thinking about the atrocities (including genocide) of your own side isn’t really the gotcha you think it is.
Otzma Jehudit is part of the Israeli Government coalition, it consists mainly of internationally wanted terrorists. and you want to bat for these terrorists? the ones who have been preaching the 14 words as a justification for genocide?
[T]he ministers and generals of the two countries, dressed in bathing-drawers and armed with clubs, can have it out among themselves. Whoever survives, his country wins. That would be much simpler and more just than this arrangement, where the wrong people do the fighting.
All Quiet on the Western Front, written by a WW1 veteran
Except for the last guy who will still have one eye. How’s the blind guy gonna take the eye of the guy with one eye left? All that guy had to do is run away and hide behind a bush. Gandhi was wrong.
“The war to end war” (also “The war to end all wars”;[1] originally from the 1914 book The War That Will End War by H. G. Wells) is a term for the First World War of 1914–1918. Originally an idealistic slogan, it is now mainly used sardonically,[2] since not only was the First World War not history’s final war, but its aftermath also indirectly contributed to the outbreak of the even more devastating Second World War.
There will come soft rains and the smell of the ground,
And swallows circling with their shimmering sound;
And frogs in the pools singing at night,
And wild plum trees in tremulous white;
Robins will wear their feathery fire,
Whistling their whims on a low fence-wire;
And not one will know of the war, not one will care at last when it is done.
Not one would mind, neither bird nor tree,
If mankind perished utterly;
And Spring herself, when she woke at dawn
Would scarcely know that we were gone.
Iran is correct.
Israel is destabilizing the region further with this shit.
We hear about Israel’s right to protect itself so often we almost forget that everyone has it.
Everyone, except Palestine and Lebanon
I mean right doesn’t equate to ability…
I don’t think Iran had to attack Israel in first place. Hezbollah sought this when they started attacking Israel after Oct 7th.
Ignoring all the assassinations and strikes by Israel, including the unprovoked bombing of the Iranian embassy in Damascus?
Iran is supporting it’s allies like the West does
Are they really allies if they’re just an extension of yourself?
Hamas and Hezbollah only exists because of the Ethnic Cleansing and Occupation of the native population of Palestine and Lebanon respectively.
I don’t disagree, but what entities funds and guide/influence them? They aren’t organizations acting on their own, they are puppets.
This does not in any way downplay the travesties that Palestinian people have been through, only to highlight how Iran has used their influence to control one side of the conflict.
They certainly have shared interests, but to consider them ‘puppets’ ignores their own agencies. Armed resistance against Settler Colonialism will exist regardless of whether they can secure funding from Iran or not. Iran has influence as the main supplier of weapons (most of Hamas’ capabilities come from reusing bombs dropped by Israel that failed to detonate), but they do not control the agency of Hamas or Hezbollah. They have their own reasons to fight back.
On the surface - perhaps. But Iran’s regime has to keep its image of power for its domestic peace. Israel’s gov knows this and they do steps they know would elicit response from Iran in the hopes Iran would actually hit hard and the US would be dragged in official capacity. That would be dramatically destabilizing for the region. I reckon the US threatened Israel with real steps in order to get them to not hit targets that would have led to such escalation.
Since Iran is funding and arming Hezbollah and Hamas, how should Israel handle Iran?
By dismantling the apartheid, ending the occupation, getting the fuck on their side of their 1967 border, and recognizing the sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza. Plus, by handing over their war criminals to the ICC and starting a Truth and Reconciliation process. Throw in paying reparations, if they really want peace.
There. Instantly, 90% of Hamas and Hezbollah support has just evaporated. Their neighbours are ready to normalize relations with them. The vast majority of world public opinion is now solidly behind them.
I’d be quite fine with most of this, all of it if by “the occupation” you mean the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank. But, until peace is established there, that isn’t going to happen. The majority of Gazans support Hamas and believe they committed no atrocities on October 7th.
Yes, exactly. Including the control of their borders of course.
That’s entirely the wrong framing. Without these things happening, whatever it is that you think will be established, it won’t be “peace”, is is only a return to the oppressive status quo ante. It’s a cliché but in this conflict, quite literally “no justice, no peace”. My laundry list above is not a desirable outcome after some imaginary unjust “peace”. It is the precondition for peace. Without dismantling the apartheid, the occupation, etc, you’ll only have a temporary lull in the brutality and they go again.
Stop making an enemy of all their neighbors with their apartheid/genocide project, would be a good start.
With the number of rockets Hamas and Hezbollah has launched into Israel during “peacetime” while being supplied by Iran, they’re doing a great job of staying enemies.
Did you know that the Gazan bomb disposal teams are some of the most skilled in the world? The reason for this is so they can disarm and disassemble unexploded Israeli bombs so that the explosives can be repurposed and fired back. So a surprisingly large portion of the explosives that Hamas used were supplied by Israel via their long-term sporadic bombing of Gaza and anything resembling major infrastructure.
Impressive feat. But Iran is still aiding and abetting Hamas’s military campaign against Israel.
Well maybe Israel should stop its brutal, decades-long apartheid campaign that’s pissing off all of its neighbors and pre-dates Hamas by around 50 years.
You say aiding and abetting like supporting anti-colonial resistance is a bad thing.
Good job putting peacetime in quotes, because during that “peacetime” Israel was airstriking Gaza and blockading it. These are straight up acts of war and justify and demand retaliation. Also Hezbollah didn’t launch rockets on Israel before October 7th.
Lol, not being an Israel apologist here, but Hezbollah has been launching rockets at Israel since they were formed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah–Israel_conflict
Educate yourself.
Israel and Lebanon have a long, blood-soaked history. And the claim that Hezbollah didn’t launch rockets before October 7th is false.
Into Lebanese (some consider it Syrian, doesn’t change the dynamic) occupied territory before and after Oct 7th. Gradual escalation (with 80% of those attacks coming from Israeli side) expanded the scale of the northern/southern front to what we see today. Israel has killed 2 orders of magnitude more civilians than Hezballah has and has sought escalation at every stage.
Before Oct 7th, they would exchange fire in occupied Lebanese land and tensions would rise then fizzle out about once a month.
They have a long blood soaked history that had mostly ended with the second Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 2006 before restarting last year.
Getting the hell out of all 67 occupied land
Dislocating over 9 million people is no small feat. Where would they go? Or should they just lay down and die?
They said leave all 1967 occupied areas.
You responded with the entire population of Israel.
And I later asked how this will appease all these other actors that just want to wipe Israel off the map. How will that happen?
You mean you assumed facts not in evidence.
They don’t have to go anywhere. They just don’t get a religious ethnostate any more. Let Palestine be a free democracy and they are welcome to live in a free society, no apartheid.
Iran, Hezbollah, and Hamas want to kill them all, though.
Read again I said the land colonized after 67 so the israelis aren’t moving anywhere
Oh, you mean this? If they’re such filthy colonizers, how is that going to change the situation enough to stop the violence?
All the post 67 land are considered occupied why Palestinians should give up their land?
Because they’ll stop being filthy colonizers.
to be fair, it’s much easier if you just annex and slaughter the fucking browns who are there
Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist organizations, and Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism. Do you want to go to bat for them?
Calling the people you dislike “terrorists” to avoid critical thinking about the atrocities (including genocide) of your own side isn’t really the gotcha you think it is.
Otzma Jehudit is part of the Israeli Government coalition, it consists mainly of internationally wanted terrorists. and you want to bat for these terrorists? the ones who have been preaching the 14 words as a justification for genocide?
you straight up have not been paying any attention
Can we just let the leaders duke it out? 1 on 1 knife fights. Leave the people out of this shit
If only.
Do you just have quotes like this in a rolodex?
I loved the book, but cannot pull quotes for the life of me.
Nah, just good at vaguely remembering quotes and then googling things like “All Quiet On The Western Front generals quarrel quote”
Eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye…
Except for the last guy who will still have one eye. How’s the blind guy gonna take the eye of the guy with one eye left? All that guy had to do is run away and hide behind a bush. Gandhi was wrong.
The great war is coming!
The war to end all wars!
So great that there will not be a need for another. (this time for sure)
How the hell a war is to end war.
Can’t have wars when we’re all dying of nuclear fallout and/or nuclear explosion
“The war to end war” (also “The war to end all wars”;[1] originally from the 1914 book The War That Will End War by H. G. Wells) is a term for the First World War of 1914–1918. Originally an idealistic slogan, it is now mainly used sardonically,[2] since not only was the First World War not history’s final war, but its aftermath also indirectly contributed to the outbreak of the even more devastating Second World War.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_war_to_end_war