Was this supposed to convince anybody?
A lot of these Republicans secretly hate that their disabled neighbor gets government assistance. They hate having to deal with the bagger with down syndrome, or the autistic barista. They think their pregnant friend should be married, a stay-at-home-mom, and it should be her husband making the money. They don’t want everybody to have an equal opportunity, they only want “people who deserve it” to have an opportunity. Where, of course, “people who deserve it” is conservative straight white men from rural areas, or whatever.
Honestly, how could you watch nearly 10 years of hateful rhetoric and think “oh, I just need to explain DEI better, then they’ll support it!”
Upvotes for correctness. But don’t forget the centrists.
The people you describe are a minority. And they convinced the centrists that DEI is just rich people keeping out working class people from top jobs.
These same centrists who did vote for Obama, did support abortion rights and marriage equality, just not as strongly as the left.
It all boils down to taking back the narrative and OP is trying to do that.
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But how do you keep things fair for straight white males which is historically the most discriminated group against?
As far as I can tell, from their prospective DEI is harmful made-up psychobabble that must be eradicated at all costs, unless it’s for veterans with PTSD or January 6th rioters who deserve a second chance. The only moral DEI is MY DEI, I guess.
Only some veterans with PTSD.
The rest can rot on the streets.
Yeah, they definitely don’t like veterans with PTSD. They like veterans who work for the police department and try to use their military / police status to insist on discounts at McDonald’s.
people who got drafted, fought, and died in a war are suckers. sucks to be them ~ President of the USA
Most straight white males are just as pedon class as the rest of us…
JFC
Fight the class war, why are you still doing this culture war trash?
Because they’re attacking a part of our group and we need to defend our group.
This isn’t attacking disabled minorities. This is attacking workers, and as workers we must fight back.
HR is like cops and DEI is essentially dressed up HR.
That doesn’t make the policy or law bad. Cops are bastards, but they enforce laws that are good for people too. HR are the same.
The police toy drive doesn’t make cops good, but it doesn’t make the toy drive bad.
DEI policies are just metrics to check if you’re accidentally being unfair, and trying to fix it. That doesn’t make HR good. It doesn’t make fairness bad.
The state and courts should enforce the laws they created. I know they don’t but I also know that HR does not, and DEI wagie won’t either.
So i don’t need another layer of grifters. They are not a solution. The solution is forcing the state and courts to enforce the laws.
I’m anti-war I’m a fighter not a lover.
Well it doesn’t change the fact that ruling class is at war with you
Or is u Elite, boy?
Why do you think that I’m an elite?
- Sent from my private yacht
Don’t mind him old bean, he’s just mad the NIKKEI dropped today. Smashing Bordeaux, I say!
They don’t care.
Unless it happens to them, and then it’s not really DEI. /s
Or it’s the Dems’ fault.
Hello I have a lot of those. I haven’t had a job in 10 years because nobody will hire me because I’m unable to “pass” as able bodied neurotypical. I require a service dog with me.
I’m pretty much fucked where I live as I’m in a heavy republican state.
Let’s see how long it takes for my public housing, medical and food stamps are taken away.
It pretty much just did get taken away. Trump didn’t even need the republicans in congress to help.
That’s been stopped in court, for now.
Why do you people think talking will help? You are so far past the point of honest discussion it’s mind-blowing.
THERE IS NO EUREKA MOMENT COMING FROM RHETORIC.
Starting a revolution without articulating the cause is just a mob. People need to know what they are fighting for which will bolster unity and resilience.
The class conciseness is not there yet
But the owner class surely getting a ton of of people woke about the class war.
Thats the only positive trend pedons got going for them.
The class conciseness is not there yet
Is that when a class can be described in 3 or fewer words?
“Eat the rich!”
(I’m aware this was a joke about the misspelling, but I couldn’t help myself)
I hear you, understand, and agree with you.
(Thought you might need to hear that from someone)
Eh?
Thats why when talking to conservatives you gotta target them, like if a pregant womans trying to make you agree with her on conservative points say hell yeah cant wait for them to get rid of all these pregnant woman that get paid for not working and just pop out babies to avoid work, if they’re old make sure you talk about how you hope they get rid of social security, etc. Fully commit especially when they try to act like it should be kept, call them libreral snowflakes.
the only time their brain processes anything is when it effects them so hold up a mirror basically
“Don’t care, these are not issues for rich people.”
–Republicans
They don’t give a shit. Stop acting like they care.
It also includes type I and type II diabetes too so remember that when filling out those self identification forms
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It’s disingenuous to claim that this is all there is to DEI, or that this is the kind of thing that DEI opponents are actually opposing.
Oh and also the ADA was a thing before DEI, all this is covered by the the ADA, and I don’t expect that most of the people opposed to DEI are also opposed to the ADA.
You’d be mildly surprised just how many conservatives also hate the ADA.
I work intimately with disability services for a state run, federally funded org.
To say we are on fire right now is an understatement. We may be closing applications altogether, funding is down like…80% from last year. And we are one of the top performing agencies in the country. There are whispers of layoffs. All my Trump voting family keeps telling me “oh, it won’t be you guys, you do good work”.
The water is on the ship, and it’s up to our neck, and I’m being told that I’m safe from sinking because I’m responsible for mopping and keeping the floors dry, why would I sink?
All my Trump voting family keeps telling me “oh, it won’t be you guys, you do good work”.
You should bet them money. And you should make it explicit, both before and after you win your money, that you know that doing good work won’t protect you because Trump is a big manbaby piece of shit who doesn’t care if people are doing good work, and in fact mostly actively dislikes it.
(This is probably not good advice for your exact situation. It’s just a satisfying thing to think through, the idea that you might do it and it manage to slap some sense into them, because they genuinely don’t know what Trump is about. This is why I sometimes emphasize that it’s not the Trump voters’ fault, really, because their news is so backwards from reality that they really think he’s a good person who’s going to do good things. Seriously. I am 100% serious about that.)
Nah, the yearn for schadenfreude is large. I get it lol. I can’t wait for the day I get arrested and I get to flip these people off, if not just to say “I told you so”.
Oh, do bet them. Then instead of “I told you so” it’ll be “You owe me $500, come use it to post my bail.”
It’s disingenuous to claim that this is all there is to DEI
Do, go on.
You can read about it in the New York Times.
Edit: This is interesting too.
Why chose to be a a wireless liar?
You know full well that ADA isn’t the same, and your know full well conservatives oppose ADA as well
DEI is just another corporate grift.
They don’t serve the worker. It is the state jobs to protect the worker and a union’s if there is one.
Some drone collecting paycheck from a corpo is the same thing as HR.
These parasites love talking big game but when push comes, they will always larp what daddy owner class tell them to.
I am still bitter I was forced to sit through a DEI seminar during my work day. Never again.
A whole seminar? And you even got paid? I feel for you.
I sense sarcasm… But this comment is bootlciker mentality in its prime
But either way, my time was disrespected and I will never attend anything like this again.
I get paid to work, nothing less, nothing more
When I don’t work, I spend my time with people who I care for.
I get paid to work, nothing less, nothing more
So you clock out for bathroom breaks?
🤡
At least you know what you are.
Proud of it.
They wouldn’t understand.jpeg
You sound very idealistic, and I appreciate that. We all have to choose our values and where and how we apply them many times every day. We pick the hills we want to die on and one of mine is not “state-mandated paid training seminar.” I feel your frustration and hope that we can find more productive ways to encourage people to be less shitty to each other. You’re right - you shouldn’t have to pay with your time for what some other bad actor did, especially when you know that your values would never allow you to behave in the manner of that bad actor.
So yes I was being sarcastic but I didn’t mean it as an attack. While you may call it licking boots, I feel it is just learning to navigate the realities of our society. Thank you for taking the time to respond and make me consider this more.
I am not idealistic, I am just tired, boss
Like a lot of things, the original idea was a pretty good one. But, the original idea wasn’t compatible with profit-seeking at all costs, or the mindsets and habits of a crew of remarkably dim members of the managerial class who had to put it all into practice. And so, the original idea got thrown in the bin, and replaced with a tradition of remarkably dim one-hour seminars which accomplish nothing at all beyond wasting an afternoon every now and then, and prejudicing people vaguely against the still-pretty-good original idea, which remains in the bin, still in its original packaging, unopened.
Boomers sexually harrased women
I do a sexual harassment training
Boomer does racist shit
I do anti racism training
Boomers only hired whites into exec rules
I do DEI training
…
I am done playing some parasites games. I value my time now too much to have to hear some idiot talk down to me on behalf of the guy who sexually harasses women and minorities while refusing to promote me into executive role
Well, but if they keep giving you dumb seminars, then they won’t have to stop sexual harassing, racism-ing, or stealing everything for them and their golf-asshole friends. And at the end of the day, isn’t that what’s really important?
Pshh, getting a free 1-slice pizza lunch at work to go over, “don’t be racist” slides is a dream.
Pizza slice a week, keeps the morale high
Some HR parasite somewhere
Sure depends on the job. When I’m behind on my tasks, paid salary, and am usually the most hardcore left person in the room? And when these seminars exist solely to grant plausible deniability to executives if they’re sued for discrimination? Keep the pizza and the disingenuous concern and let me do my job. The people teaching the seminars I’ve attended know fuck-all about the history of oppression in this country anyway, it’s all performative and we shouldn’t defend it as helpful.
Exempt salary is dogshit. I played that game for years. I was paid exactly, to the dollar, the amount you have to pay someone so they don’t make overtime. Nobody else was allowed to work overtime.
Guess who worked all the overtime, for free?
The worst I ever got abused that way was right after college - I worked for salary, but my company billed me out hourly, and they increased the rate substantially for emergency call outs, AKA for me going to work when I am not scheduled to and do not want to - and am not paid to.
There was one Saturday where my family and friends went to the beer festival without me, I went unexpectedly to work, the company made thousands off my Saturday, and I got a pat on the back. That was the day I started getting myself outta that situation, shit was unbelievable. Not a large company either, maybe ~100 employees, and it was a ~common practice in the industry (field service for industrial controls).
It’s a bummer you’re getting downvoted so heavily, there should be room for nuance here. I really don’t think the DEI seminars (in particular! Not talking DEI initiatives in general) have much of an impact, if anything they probably do more harm than good. Everyone that already agrees gets nothing but wasted time, and those that seriously disagree are not going to change from an effort like this, and how many are truly on the fence by now and just need things explained clearly and then they won’t be an asshole?
These seminars are literal HR checklists so the legal department can say they “have a robust DEI program, just look at all these trainings” - if they get sued. That’s it, it’s the most cynical empty “effort” ever.
Companies that actually give a shit are run by people who actually give a shit. In my experience, people who actually give a shit explicitly do not rely on impersonal shotgun blast seminars to try to create a safe healthy workplace. The seminars exist to grant plausible deniability to the terminally self-centered.
Edit: spelling
Yes and no. He’s getting downvoted for a lack of nuance. And a lot of comments about ‘parasites’ and other stuff.
DEI seminars can be weird for sure. it’s like someone said above, its a good idea but was turned into a tickbox, which, is what corporations do. That doesn’t mean get rid of it, that means improve it. That, in turn, means invest in it. That’s where the company usually gets off the bus. Because the company are usually a bunch of heteronormative white people who can’t see the value in it.
people who actually give a shit explicitly do not rely on impersonal shotgun blast seminars to try to create a safe healthy workplace
exactly
Lololololololololol, holy shit what a whiny bigot
🤡
DEI trainings are like .0001% of what DEI professionals are trying to do. Many people in that industry don’t even believe it’s helpful. These DEI trainings are there because corporations like to check a box and pat themselves on the back.
My wife does this for a living. She works for herself running her own consulting firm, only works for clients willing to take it seriously and fires clients that simply want to pat themselves on the back. She looks at the entire institution, how it’s structured, policies and procedures, recruiting practices, employee treatment, pay equity, talks to dozens of people all over the institution. It’s a full audit of how a company works. Then she makes long term structural recommendations to improve the working environment for everyone, including you.
I don’t pretend to know even 5% of her job tbh. But usually when people talk about DEI, I find they have a gripe with something that’s only tangentially related to their field and usually the fault of the business, not really DEI.
But yes everyone should unionize.
Oh you mean the useless eaters? They’re taking good jobs from hardworking abled Americans. /s
But seriously, disability rights are not as uncontroversial as she thinks.
There are jobs some people should not be doing.
Any job where physical strength is required should only hire people who are strong enough to perform the task at hand. I don’t know a single person who gives a flying fuck what the gender, race or sexual orientation or the fire fighter is who pulls them out of a burning building is. But they would ABSOLUTELY care if their loved ones weren’t pulled from the building because they decided to hire a bunch of scrawny people that can’t lift anything.
Pregnant women shouldnt be working at all. At least not after the first few months. Especially not at jobs that deal with chemicals or anything that I could potentially harm the pregnancy or the mother during the pregnancy. We should have properly covered maternity leave so they do not need to risk themselves or the child. It’s unbelievable to me that we don’t have that yet.
Police should be required to stay fit in order to keep their jobs. It is insulting to see a fat ball of sweat roll out of their vehicles and struggle to do basic tasks. They absolutely need to have minimum physical requirements for that job. I know they do at the start but apparently once you get past the initial physical they never check again. I have seen countless videos of smaller framed female cops being thrown around by skinny crack heads because they simply are not physically large enough or strong enough to be doing that task.
I am all for equality of opportunity, but I will never support equality of outcome. Some people simply should not be doing certain things. Even if it’s not their fault they can’t do that thing there is no reason we should be forcing it.
Hire the most qualified person for all jobs at any given time. ESPECIALLY don’t skip over qualified people who will be able to perform that job exactly as needed to fulfill some diversity quota. Support those who are incapable of working any jobs, but do not force them into critical positions simply because you don’t want them to feel left out.
I understand this wishful thinking of “anyone can do anything they put their minds to” attitude that I often see around these topics but that is unfortunately disconnected from reality. I will never fly a fighter jet. Despite having decent G tolerances I have unbelievably fucked eyeballs so I will never be allowed to fly a jet for any reason. To put me in a jet would be dangerous and irresponsible for everyone involved. I was delt a bum hand genetically speaking and it is what it is. I can do other things with my life and I have.
Edit: spelling
Of course, DEI does not mean hiring unqualified or incompetent people, it’s about finding accommodations to get people into jobs they can do, often very well, once you get past the idea that every worker has to look a certain way. Equating DEI with incompetence is a tired right wing strawman.
This ^^^
Except it does mean hiring unqualified or incompetent employees. I have seen it happen multiple times. Skip over properly qualified people who know the job and instead pick a minority to fill a quota.
I lost a job because my job hired a minority to replace our manager and because she had absolutely no clue what she was doing I needed to train her on everything her job entailed while also still doing my own job. They straight up told me to my face I was the most qualified person for the job but because I am a white guy and upper management already had too many white guys so they hired a completely fresh young Indian woman to be our manager and then forced me to train her. And to be very clear I have nothing against her. I actually liked her a lot. But in trying to do her whole job for her while she learned literally everything about having a job at all let alone being our manager AND learning our field of work my own work started to suffer. I got burned out trying to keep my own tickets in check and help her learn the absolute basics of her job. So I quit after 6 months.
They should have promoted me or any one of the other white male nerds who already knew everything they needed to know for that job, but nope. Find someone who has literally never had a job before in their lives and train them up from nothing instead. She should have been hired at the bottom like the rest of us so she could have learned the ropes and the basics like all of us did years before. Instead she got to skip years of lower level work and go straight to management level pay at a big tech company simply because of the color of her skin and the fact that she was a woman.
And before anyone says anything I know that historically that’s exactly what companies did. Hire any white guy to do whatever he wanted while keeping the minorities at minimum pay as long as possible. I don’t think two wrongs make a right. It was wrong for them to hire and promote based on whiteness in the past and now it’s wrong for them to promote or hire based on non-whiteness. Both versions are wrong. Plain and simple.
Except it does mean hiring unqualified or incompetent employees.
Yeah we’re gonna need a cite for that. And no, not an anecdotal story your friend from high school told you. Show us real, printed words that mean DEI says hire unqualified or incompetent employees.
Spoiler: there is none. This is the racist or bigoted line for the history of equitable hiring efforts. People who don’t know that take it on, but it’s not true. Same as it ever was.
But you’re just multiplying the wrongs here. What you’re describing is not necessarily a consequence of DEI policies, but your company’s approach. It didn’t have to be that way.
The worst manager I ever had to train was a white guy. He knew nothing about what we did and should not have been hired. I wasted so much time trying to train him, to the detriment of my work
Best dei hire: my coworker. She was always a great person but just didn’t cut it as an engineer. However someone recognized people skills, plucked her out of engineering to be a manager, as a woman and minority. They gave her training and mentoring, connected her with peers …. And she kicks ass. My last two job transfers were to follow her because that’s the kind of manager, now executive, I want. Great talent, who previously may have been overlooked, not had an opportunity to show her talent
My experience with DEI at several companies has included a focus on finding talent in more places, mentoring and peer support, long term human development, and lots of success in developing more diverse and open workforces, more inclusive of everyone. The goal is not to hire someone because they’re whatever demographic, but to find and develop talent from a variety of demographics
They are supporting wide scale loss of employment opportunities as retribution for one job that they felt had an unfair result. This logic is inherently selfish. But it will be difficult to change anyone’s mind that thinks this way if they are unable to empathize.
Sounds like your job shouldn’t have hired or promoted that white guy who didn’t know what he was doing. Just like my old company shouldn’t have hired that new chick who had zero work experience for an upper management position.
I don’t give a shit about inclusion or diversity. If someone is the best person for that job they should get that job. I don’t understand what is so complicated about this concept. If I only had one arm you wouldn’t fucking hire me to do your underwater welding.
Life isn’t fair. I do not care to force fairness. Everyone should have equal opportunity to do what they want, but nobody should be forced to make exceptions for special situations.
Equality of opportunity: Yes.
Equality of outcome: No.
Right, so where’s that equality of opportunity? So many people won’t have that opportunity due to accident of birth or upbringing, class structure or demographic favoritism. Maybe it’s as simple as never seeing a good example to follow. We all lose out when they never have the opportunity.
In my example, my manager would typically not have that opportunity, and I would have lost out.
DEI was putting effort into looking for those situations, finding ways to identify or develop talent that would never have that opportunity. No one should get a pass or automatic favoritism, but it’s naive to believe we start from the same place with the same doors open in front of us
“It was wrong for them to hire and promote based on whiteness in the past and now it’s wrong for them to promote or hire based on non-whiteness. Both versions are wrong. Plain and simple.”
Except one of things is the norm and the other is not and never has been.
In 2022, 88.1% of CEOs were men, and 88.8% were Caucasian.
For management in general 70% is made up of men and the other 30% consists of women. It has traditionally been seen as a male-dominated profession – and frequent studies show that even with the inclusion of more women, it’s still more masculine-orientated.
You entire rant boils down to one bad experience. Guess fucking what? They hired a white kid at my past job who had no clue how to be a manager and we all had to train his incompetent ass. This is a very common story in management and it does not require a minority to make it happen.
I would seriously start reflecting on your racists attitudes. You are literally one Fox News segment away from being a full on bigot.
In 2022, 88.1% of CEOs were men, and 88.8% were Caucasian.
And what percentage of women want/try to be CEOs, compared to men?
That’s an important piece of the puzzle that gets ignored far too often. If, for example, one half of the population is 10x more likely to desire/pursue a particular job than the other, a 10 to 1 difference among those who end up in that job is not only not evidence of any sort of bias, but it’s exactly the outcome one should expect in the absence of such bias.
Librarians are ~83% women, but it’s not because those who are hiring librarians are massively sexist against men.
I guess we will never know because we live in a extremely sexist society who views a woman in a business suit as a bitch but a man as a leader.
https://hbr.org/2018/05/the-different-words-we-use-to-describe-male-and-female-leaders
This is the real puzzle not the belief that women simply don’t want high paying leadership positions.
How many men are supportive of male librarians or male grade school educators. This cuts both ways preventing good men from being part of professions they could add a lot to.
We can’t fix this by ignoring it.
How many men are supportive of male librarians or male grade school educators.
99% of them don’t give a shit, at all, either way. Same for women, as well.
It was found that in areas of the world that have made much more progress than the US in the are of overall sex equality, that the skews in professional positions are HIGHER, not lower (e.g. engineers are even more male-skewed, nurses are even more female-skewed, etc.). Men and women, when given the free choice to pursue whatever they want professionally, do not make the same choices in aggregate. That is the fact of the matter.
It’s literally called the “gender equality paradox” because so many people naively assumed that men and women are exactly the same, blank slates that only differ in any way because of societal pressures, and that only sexism (e.g. society telling men to do job X and women job Y) could be the reason that it’s not an exact 50/50 sex split across all jobs/careers. The research that discovered the exact opposite was true flabbergasted them, but the facts are what they are, like it or not.
The fact that those skews become MORE pronounced in societies with MORE equality completely obliterates that assumption.
Everything you said was pretty much nonsense. Societies that have tackled gender inequality see much better representation of women in leadership roles as well as jobs that have traditionally been seen as male dominated.
“In dismantling historically male domains in the state and military, Norway ranks among the world’s trendsetters. Women have served as the head of state for more than 40 percent of the years since 1981”
“In Norway the national average for women working in the construction industry is 35%”
“According to recently released data from the U.S. Census Bureau, only 11.5% of payroll employees in the construction industry are women”
You have no facts to speak of and it is clear you think sexism is status quo. Ignoring the problem is not a solution and is directly responsible for the attacks on woman’s rights in the US.
There is a reason women make less in comparable private sector jobs, have their bodily autonomy violated, and don’t have basic necessities taken care of like maternal leave.
Pregnant women shouldnt be working at all. At least not after the first few months
Excuse me, no…?
This point specifically is extremely loaded.
— former pregnant woman
Who the fuck is going to pay us to sit home and be Suzie Home Maker? All I see in these statements is some distorted idea of galantry. “The woman shouldn’t have to work” … in this economy?
In reality, being unable to work during pregnancy will leave women dependant on their partners and the family in a worse financial situation. They want us locked away in our own little boxes too poor to break free.
Yes, absolutely.
Not only that, but the constant “danger to mother and child” really rubs me the wrong way, as well. Being pregnant is inherently dangerous in itself. Miscarriages can happen for literally no reason.
I think I understand the sentiment in the original statement, but it’s a bit misguided in many ways.
The amount of stories I heard from older generations while I was expecting. “Don’t lift your arms above your head.” “Don’t lean down and get a pot out of the drawer.” It seems every woman has a story, or the story of a friend highlighting the ever present risks.
The original comment made a big deal about jobs requiring physical ability. But there are so many jobs thill be impacted by this DEI freeze that are behind desks and are probably safer than being home alone.
Probably could have worded that part better. I meant pregnant women shouldn’t have to be working. Especially as their due date gets closer.
If they want to work and it’s safe by all means. But they shouldn’t need to keep working just to afford the baby.
Maybe we should pass some laws that will benefit women like maternity leave. Oh wait across the board 70% of all our representatives are male. I guess males don’t really have the best interests of females in mind.
So strange women keep getting fucked over in our country when there is such a unequal representation. It is almost like the odds are stacked against them. I know it must be DEI that is the problem!
The only thing DEI has accomplished is hiring a small percentage more of women than normal. Minorities haven’t even seen the benefit. I guess the facts don’t match your feels.
Working as intended, I see! 🫠
We should have properly covered maternity leave so they do not need to risk themselves or the child. It’s unbelievable to me that we don’t have that yet.
I love that you see ending DEI and, therefore, the employment of pregnant women as a good thing. But retroactively wish that our government could establish properly covered maternity leave.
You are incredibly naive if you think that will ever happen. DEI was a solution to that problem. Lobbyists pour huge amounts of money into preventing any significant mandates for maternity leave. People had to fight to continue to work and have job security because it is crystal clear that no one is coming to help us. We have to work. We have to feed our kids somehow.
Your logic is flawed. If they came up with a plan to cover maternity leave and then dropped the DEI, maybe it would make sense. But those actions in reverse? Directly lead to an increase in human suffering. The fact that you can not see that and are just happy that you have less competition in the working world demonstrates a lack of empathy. “Ohh, if only our government would properly cover maternity leave.” You don’t actually care. Stop pretending.
I realize I my diatribe was pregnancy related. But it goes without saying that this logic follows for disabilities and plenty of other situations.
So many words to try and justify your worthless bigotry
This is why being infected with the Woke Mind Virus is the best plague imaginable.
