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- cross-posted to:
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Summary
Trump and Zelenskyy’s confrontational Oval Office meeting advanced “mob boss foreign policy” serving Russian interests.
Trump and Vance bullied Zelenskyy when he refused their “extortionate” minerals deal or to thank them despite Trump’s stated intent to reduce support for Ukraine.
Zelenskyy effectively countered their claims by noting Russia’s 2014 invasion and correcting historical inaccuracies, which angered the Americans.
This represents the first openly “anti-US, anti-Western, anti-democracy foreign policy in American history.” Russians embraced it, and Putin ally and former Russian president Dmitry Medvedev celebrated the exchange.
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He did something much worst then humiliating x or y. Everyone already knew he is a clown, but he pretty much blown any credibility USA still had as a partner for anything, see also tariffs.
This is Don Corleone beheivior, I give you 100 billions in old military equipment and you give me 500 back, really?
Also, USA offered security guarantees on '90s when Ukraine gave back the nukes to Russia. Officials didn’t forget that, maybe Trump did.
Trump would say that the deal was done under incompetent old management and it is not valid under him. As if the government is now his and not the old.
Ok, then his validation as president was done by the same incompetent old management and it’s not valid.
He can say what he wants. International treaties are international treaties. If you break them you loose your credibility, if you still have any after threating to invade your allies.
at this point, the rest of the world should start phasing out and blocking anything American. can’t rely on the looney bin for critical infrastructure.
Føtex in Denmark is to start marking American products, so now it’s easier to know if you’re buying something American or something European.
I think Canada is also going to make a few trade deals with us.
The united states is a clown of a country for three decades.
half the voting population thinks trump did humiliate zelensky
The idea that Zelensky should owe the US anything is darkly hilarious. The US has been using this war to further its own geopolitical aims, without regard for Ukrainian lives. “Pay us back for the privilege of being a sacrificial pawn of US foreign policy”. Gross.
To add to that: Even from a purely military perspective, the intelligence gain regarding modern tactics far offsets what the US paid for it
Trump is a vulgar minded criminal who only thinks in terms of money and cash.
There is so much in this direction. For a fraction of the budget, you could obliterate both the Russian army and economy, without losing any soldiers. What an opportunity, what a deal. Unless you’re owned by Russia, of course.
America humiliated itself by voting this orange twat back in
We tried not to, I promise you. Our voting system is …problematical, at best
So is social media, and the openness of free societies to internal (the rich owning the media) and external (foreign adversaries) tampering. Spreading misinformation, eroding trust in institutions and truth itself, poisons like that.
Many democracies are crumbling this way. We yet have to find an effective antidote.
Regardless of the voting system, there still is a worryingly large portion of voters who were corrupted to serve other’s interests. And that is true to all (?) countries. That not just any two democracies fall first, but GB and US, kind of shows us that it could be anyone.
So while it is easy to look down on the fallen, or feel ashamed to be that - we’re helpless in this together. Hate to end like that.
Illusion of choice
The U.S. citizens bought the ticket now it’s time to take the ride.
I’d like a refund please, I didn’t agree to this.
100% knew this shit would happen. Knew he was going to take this all as some massive win. His cronies probably all patted him on the back and gladly licked his nuts.
He doesn’t think it, Krasnov simply knows he has to keep repeating that talking point to get people that haven’t seen the “discussion” to side with him. Why this talking point instead of another? Using the same criticism against the other side turns it into a matter of whose word those people value more to begin with. It’s him relying on his popularity. Those that don’t value Krasnov more (that also haven’t seen it) could potentially be swayed to at least think both sides were in the wrong.
People have lost their minds over a disagreement. It’s really not a big deal. Here is the real problem, Zelensky openly states his expectations during that meeting in the oval office that Russia will 1. Leave all Ukrainian land, including Crimea. 2. Pay to rebuild Ukraine. This will never happen, ever. Ukraine is free to continue the war as long as they wish and America is free Not to continue to pay for their weapons and the functioning of their government.
How did you get that over our Cheeto and his couch fucker vp yelling over him, knowing English is a second language to him, just yelling and talking over him, straight bullying him like he stole something. Our “leaders” are pathetic children. Can’t even stay on topic, went to the laptop, Hilary, holy fuck, these are our “negotiators” that have inserted themselves to help? America is cooked, were a fucking embarrassment. I’m ashamed to call myself American. JD making sure he gets a little camera action since president musk will be back and he’ll be the third wheel. Fuck me we suck so bad.
It is not the disagreement per se that people are losing their minds over (though that is another topic). It is the way he and his vice president shouted at another president’s face just because he thinks acting tough and macho will appease his supporters. This is just disgraceful and pathetic. No one with a grain’s worth of sense would want a college bully as the president of the US.
Acting tough is not what his supporters want. No longer funding endless wars is. It’s really not that hard.
No, that’s what they claim to want
What they actually want is a command to trick them into feeling like they’re powerful
Interesting that you disregard what they are telling you they want and then invent a different motive that coincidentally makes you feel superior. Weird.
Actions speak louder than words
Conservatives are lying idiots, believing what they say is what an idiot would do
Haha sorry that makes no sense. What does shouting at and humiliating a president in front of cameras achieve that just stating the US won’t be a side anymore does not? It was clearly for show.
And I like your emphasis on endless wars. Stoking up endless wars and enabling the slaughter of children and civilians is apparently fine as long as you are turning a profit since %100 of republicans (and %90 of democrats for that matter) said no to Bernie Sander’s stop arms sale to Israel resolution.
It is true that Israel holds some power over both parties and they fall over themselves to grovel at their feet. That I cannot explain.
Yes, America is free to let Putin invade a sovereign country.
Of course this makes them chickenshit appeasers. Unreliable Russian bootlickers who are willing to abandon their commitments under the Budapest Memorandum. But they are free to do this.
Just don’t give me any of this “land of the free, home of the brave” bullshit. They’ve proven who they are, and they are not that. They’re fucking greedy imperialist cowards, friends of dictators and authoritarians. I hope they do us all a favour and just hurry their descent into irrelevance.
Once they’ve completed their internal collapse, and the pieces have been picked apart, a new Alaric will ride in and close the deal. Lasted less than 300 years. Pretty pathetic by comparison. But I guess the bigger they are, the harder they fall.
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America has never been the world’s police, except if you think the police are there to enforce power from the dominant socio economic group. In which case yes.
They didn’t help people. Remember those wmds that didn’t exist and were never found?
They’ve only ever been a force for their own power and enrichment
Yes all true. Only one side is trying to make it stop.
Look, Americans are tired of being the world police, entering into endless war and conflict, and it is time all our “allies” stepped up and sent their children to the battlefield.
Who ever asked for that ?
Europe is asking right now. They want to form a European coalition “of the willing” to stand with Ukraine…but only if America offers security guarantees. Guarantees that America will fight, so yes they are all asking.
You(usa) and europe are the problem. I look forward to dissolution of your western imperial system so peoples of usa and europe truly get liberated and emanicpated
Yo you asked for help after 9/11 and not a single dollar was paid back to Europe. Just a reminder!
That is a valid point, I’ll give you that one. With 38 US military bases in the EU we are their national defense. Many Americans are tired of war and don’t want to get dragged into another endless conflict.
You know there’s something wrong when Putin and his cronies are the only ones applauding you.
You know there’s something wrong when Putin and his cronies are the only ones applauding you.
did you know there are BYD chinese cars sold all over europe.
if they are US allies - how does that happen?What does this have to do with what I said
What a moronic thing for Trump to have said when nearly everything anyone in the United States buys/uses comes from China.
Not cars tho.
I’m with Trump on Ukraine.
And I don’t support Trump on other issues.
It’s fucking stupid supporting them. Whole thing started back in the days, but the world changed dramatically since.
^ Troll alert. Don’t feed it.
Troll = anyone u disagree with
What a stupid take. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and inform you that when the USSR fell a substantial amount of their nuclear weapons were within Ukraine’s borders and Ukraine was the only new state in a position to actually maintain and potentially deploy their nuclear arsenal.
Ukraine gave up those nukes on the promise that Russia and the USA wouldn’t invade Ukraine. Now Russia has invaded and the USA is siding with fucking Russia. This sends a message to every other civilized nation that the USA won’t back them up if another nuclear power invades. Where does that logically lead them then? “Better build my own nuclear deterrent” and now we’re gonna go from 7 countries with potential to end all life on earth to god knows how many. The downstream impact of this could literally end humanity.
I don’t care about those squabbles.
world has changed - china is beating US economically and that’s unlikely to change.have you been to any store in US recently - what’s manufactured in US? nothing - that’s right.
if US starts some stupid war right now - they don’t have the manufacturing industrial base anymore, in fact - China would be that country with that base.
Protecting EU for free make no sense - did you know there are BYD dealerships all over the place in europe? chinese cars - and thats supposed US ally, that allows complete chinese infiltration on its soil.
Firstly, please don’t whatabout me. But to answer your question; goods in every sector are still manufactured in this country. From shoes and jackets to missiles and airplanes, we still make it all. Definitely in far smaller quantities than before, because the cost of labor is significantly higher, meaning US made goods demand a large premium over imported goods. If everything was made domestically you’d be too poor to buy half the stuff you own now. Manufacturing jobs are trash and pay trash, unless they’re highly skilled jobs (like building airplanes). Nobody wants $3 an hour where I’m from.
We’re not protecting anything for free with Ukraine. We agreed that if this literal situation happened, we’d fight Russia since Ukraine was giving away their deterrent. Like, do you think Russia still would’ve invaded Ukraine if there were nukes that could wipe Moscow off the map in Ukraine?
Now everyone is going to start secret nuke programs because they can’t trust the USA to honor it’s end of the bargain. Our ability to negotiate was thrown into the garbage disposal for fucking what?
how is life in Russia nowadays, by the way? we get almost no reports of it other than the occasional protestors getting shut down
Inflation of food prices is very noticeable. Still manageable, though.
Taxes are getting higher.
Lots of services can’t be paid for due to sanctions. Some payments are possible, but for a premium.
Roscomnadzor still pisses everybody off. They’re slowing down YouTube to an unusable rate. They claim it’s Google’s hardware degrading (It’s not). Then there’s Discord being blocked, and now they seemingly want to target Steam for some unknown reason (the reason is VKontacte needs more money).
More insane legislature is being talked about.
The lingering threat of being drafted or randomly killed by a drone isn’t gone, which is emotionally draining.
People want peace. Yet, put responsibility on incumbent. (Think: “We had no say in it, they started it, they’ll finish it”)
Opposition? What opposition? Everybody’s either jailed or were forced to leave the country. They’ll literally lock up a single father up if he dares to show disagreement with their “special military operation.” And the kid? Who cares? They don’t matter to our very just and absolutely not corrupt courts. (Sry, still fuming about that story. Hope the judge and the principal will rot in hell)
That’s about it. Source: me, also russian news media and official legislature sources
boeing whistleblower found dead: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703
open ai whistleblower found dead: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/28/openai-whistleblower-suchir-balaji
huh, i was wondering about life in Russia
It tracks. US may as well be a Russian colony at this point
I don’t agree with you, but I’m glad you’re allowed to say this without being censored.
So… If China tries to take Taiwan, is that ok? Is it perfectly normal for the US to threaten to take Greenland and Panama?
Or are we pretending that war, genocide and taking over neighboring counties is just a one-off situation?
Yes. And I will tell you even more - we can’t do shit for Taiwan.
It’s too far away to resupply, and legally - it belongs to China.
The fuck are you talking about?? The US managed to resupply in Iraq and Afghanistan for 20 years,and they’re a LOT further away.
years,and they’re a LOT further away.
but its completely different situation.
those were 3rd word countries that were without any strong party backing.
with Taiwan - what’s your plan? openly engage China? start ww3 over Taiwan?
this is - i’m sorry - this is fucking nuts.US can’t win that even with conventional weapons, those transports gonna be sunk before getting anywhere close to Taiwan.
No no, you said “too far away to resupply”. I claim bullshit. I never suggested it was a good idea.
In that case the US should be British still. Fucking uppity colony is what it is.
come and take it
Troops in Vietnam had ice cream and cold Coca Cola.
There are mobile Burger Kings that can be loaded into military supply transports.
That’s just food.
You have no idea the capabilities of US logistics. Why do you think we have military bases on 6 continents and half the countries in the fucking world. It’s not just for fucking fun. The whole point is that the US can have a fully supplied fighting force anywhere in the world within a couple days.
Go lick fascist boots somewhere else. I still stand by the idea that democracy should be defended.
Why do you think we have military bases on 6 continents and half the countries in the fucking world.
completely different situation.
Vietnam - US was fighting against 3-rd world country. Sure with USSR/China backing, but indirect still.When you talk about Taiwan - you are talking about directly engaging China for a Chinese island that’s 60 miles from China and thousands of miles from US.
how do you picture that going?
if there is a hot war between US and China that’s somehow without nuclear (again - im asking you how is it going to be without nuclear) -> none of those transports gonna reach Taiwan for resupply.it’s a simple production math - they can outbuild US in rockets probably 10 to 1 and with modern technology - none of US carriers/strike groups gonna be able to do shit. they gonna be sunk super quick.
math is not mathing - give that fucking island to China, I dont want ww3 because of it.
Thanks USA, we don’t want another Afghanistan.
Has Trump done anything in the past month to not humiliate the US and drastically weaken our global strength and influence?
Some drone strikes on some Al Qaeda guys I guess? But nothing of significant note. The rest has been a complete humiliation of the US.
The same drone strikes he said were illegal, and instead of stopping, removed reporting of so he could say he didn’t do it but Obama did… ugghhhh
The most embarrassing moment in American history. Regurgitating Russian propaganda to the ally currently under attack from Russia. It’s almost unbelievable that this actually occurred…
I don’t think Ukraine is an ally anymore. I don’t think much of Europe is our ally at this point
I’m certainly not an ally, and I live here.
I mean, same. I hate that I’m an American rn.
Good thing we have the 1st and 2nd Amendments.
Perhaps useful idiots on the left should stop trying to take them away.
This administration and the greater right wing is the most virulent opponent of the first amendment this country has ever seen, and its not even remotely close.
How so?
most embarrassing moment in American history
so far.
Its wild how much damage is being done in such a short time and how powerless everyone is to do anything.
That’s the real kicker, everyone is not powerless. On the contrary, as a matter of fact, everyone is powerful. America could change tomorrow if Americans wanted it bad enough.
People feel powerless because the country is split. They can’t change tomorrow became that would require onboarding 150m people and convincing them to standup to a tyrannical regime.
So it doesn’t matter how bad people on the left want it they can’t change anything. There is the option of revolution but you only get one shot at that and the Feds will see it being organised from a mile away.
Almost. But some of us could tell he was a Manchurian Candidate
Most embarrassing, wtf, have you read american history past the first grade. Hell in the first chapter you’ll find ethnic cleansing of natives and the three fifths compromise. This isn’t even the first time we’ve done a shakedown like this. Half of Latin America got this treatment in the 19th century, albeit less crude and poorly executed.
Even on the regurgitating authoritarian propaganda front, in the 70s we were running diplomatic cover for fucking Polpot and playing down the genocide because we wanted to get back at Vietnam and cozy up to China.
Those were all closed door dealings that boomers children could’ve only learned from hindsight. This was a public display of WTFery that rewrites the last century of geopolitical history, something like this hasn’t happened since… Oh god.
More embarrassing than Holocaust denial and the slaughter of indigenous people?
There’s lots of embarrassing things. There’s lots of really bad embarrassing things.
I hear the French had a most fabulous invention that could help with these sorts of problems.
The Etch-A-Sketch?
You could draw it on an etch-a-sketch.
But not quite as embarrassing as your comment history.
Dunning Kruger indeed
Most embarrassed I’ve been to call myself an american. And I’m a veteran.
Absolutely disgusting.
I’m so angry and embarrassed. What a total shit show.
Since 2015 ish I started unfollowing both left and right side friends because of political talk from people on my friends list on Facebook. I really have pruned it to be only people that post stuff they’re doing. Same for people that only forward stuff. (News or whatever).
I broke down and posted about yesterday on my feed with a link to a YouTube video of the press conference. Expressing how utterly disgusted I was.
It’s a minor thing but it should make it very clear how I feel and the line we crossed with that display.
Seems like you did an unnecessary pruning then. You just weren’t angry yet.
No I was angry but wanted a clean online space that I was kinda stuck on due to remote family…
Edit: I am more angry now so you’re not technically wrong <sigh>
I have followed a lot. I’m passionate too. However, this. This was just too much. It’s upsetting and disgusting and embarrassing for us. I really wish Obama and Biden and Clinton and everyone would be more fucking vocal. They do it for silent respect? There is nothing respectful about anything Trump has done. We need real leaders.
I was pretty embarrassed when he was elected the first time, then really embarrassed when he was elected the second time too, but yeah, this is a new low.
Embarrassed? I went into a deep depression and could barely get out of bed, the second time.
Sorry to hear, that’s terrible and understandable. The country is definitely in a bad place right now and hopefully the safeguards that haven’t already been dismantled will hold and he can’t do too much damage.
I kind of did too. But then I realized there’s still a chance to turn things around so I started getting involved with local activist chapters. Do what you can and try to get your family involved. It all helps.
I voted by mail went to Hawaii hoping to tune it out. All it did was depress the fuck out of me during my vacation. I put on a fake smile and tried to enjoy myself, but the 2nd half of that trip sucked.
Yea, me too. That was a sense of doom on another level.
I’m a veteran and a minority as well. It’s great knowing more than 1 language because I can claim a different country that speaks my language as my own to avoid the negative association of being an American.
I also get discounts speaking my native tongue compared to white folks who come blaring in disrespectfully.
Who said there were no “perks” being a minority in the United States <sigh>
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Easy there calling veterans war criminals…maybe you should serve before judging
As a veteran I disagree with the war criminal comment just as I disagree with you saying you should serve before judging.
People who join are split into thirds; a third are actually drunk off the Kool aid who believe the USA is God’s endowment, a third are there because lack of economical opportunities back home, and the last third are trying to get out of their shit situation, whether it be near homelessness or abuse.
It’s by design from the government to make us citizens desperate enough to sign our lives away for a chance to have our heads above water.
Government is more interested in using your body as a meat shield than educating you.
Remember when Rep Jim Banks if Indiana said forgiving student debt would make it harder for the military to use free tuition as an incentive to enlist? Nothing says “I represent the people” like intentionally making education unaffordable so get more people to join the military!
I feel contempt for the drunk off third and pity for the other two thirds.
posts sign DON’T FEED THE TROLLS
Maybe you should try war crimes before calling someone a war criminal
Are you dense? I just told you they’re warcriminals.
Anyone, from a truckdriver to cooks, when part of the US military are equally guilty of all the shit they do.
From droning weddings to torture while looting poor defenseless countries.
I have nothing but contempt for them.The logistics chain doesn’t end at the border of the US military-industrial complex. Everyone in the US is culpable. We all assist in one way or another to keep this war machine running. We are impelled to do so via the coercion of the system, just as the soldiers are. We’re all criminals.
You should look up war criminal, because I don’t believe you know what it means
Don’t feed the trolls :)
That sentence is written in a way where they could have easily meant “I should be far more embarrassed for being a veteran but this is taking the cake”.
And most people who serve in the US military are pushed into because they can’t afford life otherwise. I’m sure many are pretty shit, but most are honestly kinda just your average person. As an institution it’s not got the best track record but it’s not the IDF gleefully and openly murdering children.
Now please stop making me have to defend the US military of all things, it feels icky.
I really don’t care for that excuse.
"I really don’t want to but I’m a poor black kid and no chance of education otherwise. " If you CHOOSE to better yourself at the expense of others, and think your solution is joining an organisation that is in the business of murdering and looting then they can go to hell.
They most certainly murder children and are also guilty in helping the IDF do it. Not just supplying weapons.They can choose to get a gun and rob banks or rich assholes.
That would be way more honorable and fair than cowardly bombing brown people from a distance for some money.Except most of them are fully brainwashed. Recruiters literally go into their schools and start when they’re young, and they leave out all the important details. These days it’s pretty obvious, and there’s a reason that they’re struggling to get numbers like they used to, but if someone is already a veteran then they joined up many years ago.
Telling someone to go rob a bank is just insane. I get the sentiment, I really do, but c’mon man have at least a little empathy. I’m not asking for anything more than maybe chilling on the default “war criminal” stuff. I’m even happy to agree that the institution is shady as fuck and full of issues. There’s nuance here, and nuance is not an synonym for “excuse”, it just means that it’s more than 0 or 100.
I will copy/paste my response and add that I also have a hangover:
This is a subject that pisses me off every time. No organisation in the world is more harmful and it causes enourmous misery for millions. When someone defends those, make’s excuses for them or bring up someone’s a veteran implying they deserve respect, have done some service for the country or even heroes I get indeed very confrontational. You’re 100% right that it doesn’t help to convince people. I usually try a more tranquil approach on other subjects. Even then the reaction is almost invariably insults and accusations. At least it will be an eye opener for some that believed everyone is like them and they are universally loved. But thanks for your sensible advice.
I forgot to mention it doesn’t really matter what I say since much less controversial comments of mine sget removed systematically and rapidly when they go against the narrative.
I never said they deserved respect, I mean calling someone a war criminal while they actively criticize GOP foreign policy is fucking wild. You started this all on your own.
Dude, it ain’t that easy to escape the claws of propaganda. Being all confrontational with the grunts of US imperialism ain’t gonna create class solidarity.
This is a subject that pisses me off every time.
No organisation in the world is more harmful and it causes enourmous misery for millions.
When someone defends those, make’s excuses for them or bring up someone’s a veteran implying they deserve respect, have done some service for the country or even heroes I get indeed very confrontational.
You’re 100% right that it doesn’t help to convince people.
I usually try a more tranquil approach on other subjects.
Even then the reaction is almost invariably insults and accusations.
At least it will be an eye opener for some that believed everyone is like them and they are universally loved.
But thanks for your sensible advice.
Too edgy 4me man.
