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Flatpak ftw!
🤦
No, that’s not how you make one
Snap and Flatpak have things in common (and I get that some people have objections to both), but Snap is significantly worse.
Being better than Snap is a pretty low bar.
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laughs in AUR
btw
Snap made me switch back to Debian. Ubuntu was awesome for a long time, but having snap glommed onto everything so much that it kept showing up on my headless boxes was too much.
At least we have Mint and Kubuntu
Kubuntu removed Flatpaks in favour of Snaps
Mint for the win! I really hope they make LMDE the main branch in the longer term.
The redundancy is always good, but I really don’t see what benefits the switch would provide. The Linux Mint team removed all the stuff they didn’t like from Ubuntu anyway when packaging it as Linux Mint, and plus, Ubuntu’s software repositories are much more up-to-date than Debian’s owing to their regular release schedule. Unless they want to base LMDE on Debian Sid, anyway.
Also check out Spiral Linux. It’s a pretty good distro.
What? I’m pretty sure I have access to Flatpaks…
https://kubuntu.org/news/flatpaks-and-kubuntu/
It is no longer installed by default, in other words, exactly the same as the other Ubuntu flavours
At least it’s an easy fix
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do you mean Kde neon? pretty sure kubuntu has snaps
damn, I thought kubuntu got rid of that
Pop!_OS is based on Ubuntu and also strips Snaps for Flatpaks AFAIK
Yeah, it does, but if you try to install packages from apt, it still uses some Ubuntu repos and will try to sneak snaps and snapd in on you.
All Canonical had to do was NOT push snaps through
aptand I’d probably be fine with them.and also strips Snaps for Flatpaks AFAIK
Neither of these are a feature.
Don’t buy a Steam Deck then.
Fuuuuuuuuck kubuntu
What’s wrong with kubuntu?
Greybeard here. I don’t know what a snap is.
Package format by Canonical that sandboxes applications and packs them up including all their dependencies. Server side is closed source, thus you can’t implement a local mirror or your own snap store. Many applications are currently sandboxed in a way that makes using them cumbersome, e.g. when your home is on an NFS share.
Package format controlled by Canonical that has a lot of issues currently
It’s apparently what you do into a Slim Jim™
I can’t even use my smart card because Ubuntu keeps trying to install the snap version of Firefox which can’t access the hardware. Why does it keep swapping out every time I update releases? Why won’t it let me be happy?! /cry
This is exactly why I’m switching to fedora. Just installed 23.10 and Firefox became a snap again. Ive been with ubuntu for over 10 years now, but I’m done.
You could use Arch, btw. 😜🤣
OK I am more of a baby Penguin here, why do people hate Snap and Flatpack?
Flatpak is fine. Snap is Canonical’s proprietary version, which ties you specifically to their app store. It’s not designed to be an open standard but Canonical has made it compulsory in one of the largest distros (Ubuntu) and its derivatives. There are also problems with its sandboxing mechanism competing with AppArmor.
There was an Ubuntu developer that left Canonical about a year or so ago. His reason was that he had spent a number of years (possibly over a decade, can’t remember) optimizing some code and the kernel to get the fastest boot time possible.
Then he saw Canonical practically throw his work out the window by introducing snaps, which until recently was plagued by serious slowness on the first start of a snap.
He said it felt like his years of work just meant nothing at that point.
There are a number of reasons Flatpaks are a better open source option, even if they aren’t perfect.
This hate comes mostly from Linux communities like here and on Reddit. When you see actual numbers, both are widely used for production use. They have lots of active users as reported in their respective blogs and websites.
That said, it is aware that both had problems. Most hate towards Flatpaks that I can see is from purists that prefer their distro shipping their packages with dynamic dependencies and uprated by their package manager. Also there is complains with outdated runtimes and stuff like how sandboxing works.
Snaps has all problems than before with some extras. When they were released, because of compression, they were painfully slowly to open and they affected boot time. Nowadays this is mostly gone, but they still keep a proprietary store, inability to have multiple repositories (stores) and they don’t respect your home directory structure by placing a “snap” folder in your home.
Personally I use both and I’m happy with them. The proprietary store stuff does not bother me because I’m already trusting canonical binaries by using Ubuntu and they are easy to use and be productive with them.
You could be a vet
People shouldn’t hate either
Just a few days ago I wrestled with the overzealous sandboxing and security of the Chromium snap. Had to get a Flatpak and even then had to use some flags to get the proper permissions enabled. Next time I do a refresh I’m going with Debian.
Give Linux Mint Debian Edition a look!
With all respect I’d like to ask, why most people in comments avoiding Debian like plague? It’s good OG distro, stable as fuck, i know about old packages and all, but after daily driving arch BTW™ for 5 years straight all i can say is, I’m tired boss, I’m tired of nonstop updating, I’m tired of dependency hell that coming if you didn’t updated your system for half a month, I’m tired of resolving repeating dependency hell when you’ll have to reinstall half of your system to get it work another week, I’m tired of modern filesystems that locking themselves up completely when something goes wrong, so I’m just decided to give Debian a chance, and you wouldn’t believe it, it’s heaven, when you can just power up your system and it just works, without any trouble, yes, i have dated software, but it’s worth it, and yes, 8 years ago, my first distro was Linux mint, and it broke when i used OFFICIAL GUI updater tool to update version of my mint, also I’ve upvoted your comment and don’t mean any bad
Probably different experiences for some people. I don’t currently use my computer for anything time sensitive. I’m studying web development and some minor programming on it and play video games by myself generally. I like to tinker and mess with stuff as well, so Arch and KDE for me is fine. I like getting new features quickly and I don’t need or have a huge desire for the most stable system. If it breaks i just research how i can fix it and I’ve learned a lot doing that. When I do start actually working in development I’ll probably use a more stable release with Gnome. So really just comes down to different strokes for different folks.
Are you me from 8 years ago?) Keep it up) it’ll help you to gain knowledge and as you’ve said someday you’ll want your pc to just work) 8 years ago I’ve started to use Linux and did alot of distro hopping, and 5 years ago i installed arch, and now i trying Debian)
Agreed to infinity and beyond. I’m already burnt out after a couple years too. Debian all the way
I used Debian for a bit many years ago. It was great for all the reasons you are tired of Arch (I had tried Gentoo before Debian). When Ubuntu came out, I was quite happy with it. It had the stability of Debian, but was a bit more polished and had better support for new stuff without sacrificing stability.
I’m moving on from Ubuntu at this point, and have tried Mint, but not Mint Debian. It’s nice enough. I’m curious what Debian is like these days though. I haven’t used it in a decade at least.
Debian became more polished and user friendly, you can check YouTube reviews of Debian 12, and yes) i think you should try mint Debian first because of mint flavours i only tried standard mint and don’t know how mint Debian edition do
I am a Linux user for over a decade but I have no idea what this discussion is about. Can someone give me a tldr? I install some software using apt and some using the store and never have any issues.
Snaps are ways to ship software where everything is bundled together and the developer doesn’t need to sort out dependencies on the distribution. This often makes the package bloated. It has no direct benefits for users, but it makes life easier for developers. Thus, indirectly, users might get access to some software they would otherwise need to compile if no one’s got it readily available for the user’s distribution. Ubuntu appears mostly to be using it because they don’t want to bother sorting out dependcies. On Ubuntu, and only on Ubuntu as fast as I know, some packages in apt will install the snap version silently, which, I think rightfully, annoys a lot of users.
There are similar alternatives, like flatpak, which also bundle dependencies. Some aspects of snap are proprietary to Canonical, the makers of Ubuntu, so you’ll find people who are ok with the somewhat bloated software if it makes software more widely available, but aren’t happy with a proprietary format in what is largely an open community.
Also sometimes run into weird permission problems with snaps, like with keypassxc browser integration.
If you install an app with apt and it has a snap it automatically installs the snap
I believe snaps are only installed by default on Ubuntu at this point. Debian has apt and I don’t think it installs a snap version unless you asked for that.
I get all the reasons why people hate snaps, and I think they’re all valid. And I appreciate people looking out for others and warning them about problematic software.
But man am I lazy, and I was really happy I didn’t need to set up Docker just to run Sonarr on Bazzite. I’m pretty new to Linux, and that looked like a whole intimidating process.
I haven’t had any issues with the few snaps I use so far
The issues are more being worse than flatpak in most ways: Proprietary, bigger, slower, no support for external repos
You had me at proprietary. But seriously, I use FOSS. I’ll tolerate proprietary software if I have absolutely no other choice. There’s absolutely no reason for me to put up with this bullshit. While it’s a long way from the kind of shitfuckery Microsoft is so fond of, it’s still completely unnecessary.
Proprietary doesn’t bother me at least not how snap is currently implemented
I don’t recall noticing a size difference between snaps and flatpaks
I’ve found snaps as fast as flatpaks, but I know snaps has issues before I started using themHonestly, if you’re satisfied, there’s not really a compelling reason to switch. Keep using snaps if that’s what works for you. But I would like to remark that we should preferably support open solutions to proprietary ones. That’s not saying that we should never use proprietary software, but just something to keep in mind.
I haven’t had any issues with the few snaps I use so far
My grandpa used to say something like the idea that he never had problems with the ‘few’ times he drove home drunk so far. Then he ran someone over.
It’s better to understand something is an avoidable risk BEFORE you’re shown graphically.
Yes, snaps are just like manslaughter
Me reacting to analogies with “Did you know these two things are not completely identical?”, completely unburdened by the knowledge that I’m supposed to explain how the differences invalidate the comparison.
Driving drunk is factually stupid
Snaps are not
It’s a bad analogyI’d argue it’s pretty stupid to use FOSS but then depend on a proprietary server that only one for-profit company is allowed to run to deliver all that software, trusting them to just never do wrong or leave you high and dry. I’d also argue it fits the analogy perfectly, because the analogy was about saying “I haven’t had a problem yet” in response to being shown the potential problems of the action.
But the problem with snaps is an opinion. If Canonical goes bonkers I’ll just go use something else. Until then I don’t have any issues with them using proprietary software within their own ecosystem.
It’s not an opinion that proprietary for-profit software will betray you, it is an inevitability. It has happened every single time. If it was FOSS, we could salvage it. It’s proprietary, so we can’t. When it fails it must simply be abandoned. I just hope you learn the right lesson when this happens.
They literally are
elaborate?
Snaps killed his family.
Me hate snap. Snap no good. Me no like snap. >:((((
I mean, aren’t they?
Comparing Snaps to manslaughter is a new one to me, but why couldn’t you have gone for the Godwin and compared it to Hitler?
I ran ubuntu for a year and most my packages were snaps. It slowed my machine and made it lag so much. I now use arch btw
DBeaver it’s not on the repos, but it is on snap
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Has the meaning of this template changed? Like isn’t the pink guy supposed to be a thing supporting the white dude so they can accomplish a goal they couldn’t have done alone?
For example, the pink guy could be “Debian”, the white person “Ubuntu”, and the yellow goal “Being an awesome distribution”.
It’s always been a thing holding white guy from getting to yellow goal, in the memes I’ve seen.
TIL! Guess I saw the reverse once, and it’s stuck with me. Carry on.
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GET THE TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS!!!
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Just like you like snaps… Are you even sane?
very brave of you to say that here
I bet you also use systemd. You bastard.
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What’s your alternative? I’ve used OpenRC before and it was nice, but it didn’t take long to find a use-case that systemd handled easily but OpenRC made difficult. Also a few packages expect systemd to be present and either fail to install or partially install so I had to figure out how to implement the missing functions in OpenRC.
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why? Do you mean “like” as in you’d rather have them than not, or that you think they’re a good way to package apps?
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Oh boy, what a brave opinion to post. I respect that. I’m curious though, on your reasons for why you believe Snap to be superior to Flatpak.
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I think this is just a difference in the use case. Flatpaks are designed for desktop applications while Snap was initially designed for exactly the purpose you describe.
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The only non-bullshit downside of Snap is the proprietary server-side and the lack of multi-repo support.
I think most people agree on that point, but believe that it’s a big enough one to be a deal-breaker.
In what way is Snap superior enough to Flatpak to outweigh that downside?
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I think they’re a good way to package apps.
Tell us you don’t know why you need Single Source of Truth on package installation and content without using the phrase “dependency hell is self-inflicted”.
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Just wait until you find out about flatpak
I bet you do, don’t you? THANOS!
tie him to a pole and let’s throw stones at him
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Oh snapers!
