I’ve 🐝 bee-n fighting for two years now. I have this « job » that I’ve been stuck with forever now. My inability to enjoy the little things of life is just another indication of my dereliction: hating the bitter man I’m becoming, seeing myself in people I despise, being unable to think, speak, create.
There’s no future for me here. No way out from my work. No time to dedicate to what I love. I read the introduction of Camus’ « L’homme Révolté » about absurdism in other to be something else than a consuming shitty human, and I don’t agree with most of the moral dilemmas: killing yourself is not the same as killing another person. I’m making a choice for myself and maybe, one of the limits of this argument is that I’m imposing my absence on others…
But who might miss me? My family & friends? It’s true, there are the ones that made me stay this long, but nothing is changing, and I need to help myself.
ಥ_ಥ, maybe see you tomorrow ?
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Therapy, exercise, and finding a job with good work life balance.
And when shit gets really bad, Propranolol.
This. And in case of no job, spite. It’s carried me through a lot.
Ahh, the good old Camus special. It’s remarkably effective
Spite absolutely got me where I am in life.
I am motivated by hate and hate alone. Spite just doesn’t do it for me anymore.
suicidal ideation is a common coping mechanism for feeling trapped. i think saying it like this helps because it draws a clear line of causality; you feel trapped -> you feel suicidal. i don’t think this accounts for 100% of cases, but from both research and experience, it seems fairly common
this also seems to apply to how you’re feeling. it seems like you feel trapped in regard to two situations; one, your job, and two, your anhedonia (fancy word for “can’t feel happy”)
suicidal ideation is, in my opinion, a sign you need to seriously reconsider your consent about your current life. here’s a personal example to illustrate this: when i was a couple of years into college, i was passively suicidal from working myself so hard all the time and not doing anything to enjoy myself. i had to take a step back, and seriously reconsider two things: one, that i had never given myself the choice of doing anything other than college (my parents simply insisted i did, and i had no better plans); and two, that nothing in college was worth burning myself out for, and that i needed to set aside time to enjoy myself, the mounting pile of homework be damned. this addresses consent in two ways: the first, that i hadn’t consented to this path in life (and was now, retroactively, giving myself the opportunity to either drop out or continue), and the second, that i wouldn’t consent to a life where i was only working and never enjoying myself
so i feel like, following this train of logic, it works out to a problem you can solve with your job (how can you get to a place where you have the time to engage with things you enjoy? do you need to scale back your hours? do you get paid enough to use money to offset the hours you’d have to put into cooking / cleaning / etc? can you put extra time in upfront so you can have more time off later? etc)
anhedonia is a little tougher, because it’s hard to know if it’s caused by the situation. i would try to improve your situation with your job and see if it improves. if it doesn’t, you should look into seeing a psychiatrist (and also maybe a therapist). anhedonia is a common symptom as a result of being in a prolonged fight/flight state, which i imagine has gone along with your job stress. however, you may have trouble coming out of it on your own, even with the job stress sorted. regardless, please keep in mind that it is not a permanent problem. your joy will return to you in time
other things you can do in the meantime are to practice deep breathing exercises, try to exercise in general (yoga is especially good for this kind of thing), take some walks outside in nature, try to be present in the moment and in your body
but i think it really just shakes out to making life worth living for yourself, which i definitely believe that you can achieve. it may take time, it may be difficult, but knowing that’s where that time and effort will lead makes that struggle worth enduring
I went to Malawi during 2-weeks for faring in an eco-lodge and I remember that in the contact of new people & nature I felt better than ever, I feel like it’s not my mind but more of the accumulation of shitty stuff everyday.
I’m actually in the situation you lived through, I’m in the french high school system, last year with exams. School has always been hard for me, fighting my mind, being harassed, I’ve come to hate it, I’d be better off on wikipedia learning stuff by myself.
But everyday I’m forced to go to experience the shallowness of people, teachers & educators. I have no energy to do anything but… consume content on my phone to not think about my shitty situation.
And right now, I’m so fed up this existence of student, trapped in the petulent academic system that I can even focus anymore. I can’t think, I can’t write, I can’t remember.
ah, i see. i’m sorry that school is so rough for you
how long do you have left? what are your goals after school? before you can plan what actions you want to take, you should figure out a tentative plan for the future so you know what you’re working towards. i would recommend enlisting the aid of a trusted adult for this
i’m unfamiliar with the french system of education; is it possible to drop out and take a certification that is equivalent of graduating? (generally, in the US, this would be frowned upon, but would be worth it if the situation is as bad as you’re describing, i think)
all that said, you likely can coast and do minimal work and at least graduate. if you’re being harassed by someone, you should report them / tell them to stop / basically go out of your way to avoid them, or cause problems that are clearly their fault (although that can be difficult). it may also be worth talking to said trusted adult about this issue
teachers being vapid is pretty much out of your control, but just because they’re vapid doesn’t mean the material is. if you take an interest in learning things for the sake of learning, and digging beyond what they give you in school, you can at least attain valuable knowledge about the various subjects of your classes
this is part of what i learned in school myself; even though you’re forced to be in school, you’re the only one responsible for if you learn something or not. so learn the ways you are able to and get what you can out of the environment. maybe french high school is super difficult, but you seem like you have a good head on your shoulders. you should be able to learn stuff well enough to pass
still practice the breathing, exercising, etc that i mentioned, though. this:
And right now, I’m so fed up this existence of student, trapped in the petulent academic system that I can even focus anymore. I can’t think, I can’t write, I can’t remember.
sounds like you losing your executive functioning to stress. your anger at the situation is valid, but you need your brain to be online to cope with it and get out. take a step back, breathe in, hold. release as slowly as you can. repeat
try to notice when you’re spiraling with emotion, try to remember to breathe when you are. it’s hard at first but over time you’ll notice it quicker and be able to respond in the moment
you’ll make it out one day. just focus on getting there
What an insightful comment. This kind of distinction between what is really going on, can help people suffering like OP.
@[email protected], the suicidal thoughts are an indication you’re feeling stuck. Know there are always options, even if you don’t see them right now or are sure there aren’t any. Talk to people, like you’ve done here, and eventually you’ll find a new direction. Bringing it up here already is a great step, I’m impressed you’ve done that.
Alexithymia is difficulty recognizing or understanding one’s own emotions. I think you maybe meant Anhedonia? (inability to find enjoyment in things, expecially things that were previously enjoyable)
oh you’re right yeah, lmao, my b. i’ll edit, ty
I’m saving this text for later. I may need it. Thanks.
Care to share what you love?
I love making music, I love coding & contributing to open-source, I love writing/DMing tabletop roleplaying games & stories, I love reading fantasy & philosophy (mainly) books, I love to grow gourmet shrooms, I love meeting interesting people, urban exploration
I love the world and what it has to offer, I can not participate in it… I’m stuck in this shitty situation
Why are you unable to participate in the world? What withholds you from gaining happiness? If it’s just your job, then I’d suggest finding another job, but that seems like an obvious answer, so I assume you’ve already looked into that.
I’m in the french high school system which are very long working days (which is normal) on uninteresting things with teachers that hate teaching, and classmates with endearing stories but questionable sex lives of which they talk way too much.
In all this shallowness, I have no energy when I get back at home, after doing my shitty math homework, to even boot up my laptop to work on my coding project.
It’s constantly fighting your mind that tells you that there’s more to life, that you should not waste your time with such a poor experience.
But you don’t have self-determination, you just have the responsibilities of going there, putting down a smile, and get fingered for good grades to go to a shitty engineering school teaching Java from 2008 and then work at a shit ass computing job where you’re the genius computer guy installing Adobe Reader on everyone’s PC.
I really struggled with this when I was in high school, I was so burnt out. I became quite socially isolated because there was no-one there who I could really relate to, and all my friendships felt superficial and not worth the energy they cost.
For me, it got a lot better when I left school - at university, I met so many more like-minded people and that helped massively. I also was quite lucky to genuinely enjoy my degree subject, but I’ve also seen people who aren’t keen on their degree in practice, but they too find solace in their community. I lived in a shitty, backwater town so it feels like my life didn’t really start until I got out of there.
In terms of how I coped during that shitty time - I didn’t. Like I say, I ended up withdrawing even more, and eventually I got so burnt out on the school structure itself that I started skipping lessons; I got in trouble for it, but I was too depressed to care. My grades were still decent, because self teaching was more efficient. This isn’t advice, because I don’t think this was a good thing to do, it’s intended as solidarity, because school really is shit — as an adult, I’ve found that the best way to cope with depression and suicidality is to claw back as many fleeting moments of agency from the world as possible. School is so incredibly disempowering though.
There are a lot alternatives out there to the way of life you are describing. It seems like that’s the only way since that’s how people around you live. But if you look a bit outside of your circle - you will find people living other lives. They also have their own problems - but what you see ahead of you, is not the only way.
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I’m doing a special version of my baccalauréat where I do both the French exam, and the A Levels
May I ask, how did you get stuck in a job? I ask since I changed my occupation field rather drastically once (studied biology, went into freelance design and live visual arts) and there is a good chance I might do it again soon (right now I’m not sure what I will do next).
You say suicidal thoughts, which I believe you have, but you showed us your depressive thoughts. Some times, it’s not intellectual, it’s just one aspect of your biology you can’t will away. You might need medicine, you’ll definitely need to work on it without knowing if your efforts will get results.
I saw in another comment you talking about the things you love. Choose one and really set aside some time to enjoy it. Create a period of total selfishness. Do something practical.
Intellectually, to quiet the voices that are so negative and justify bad decisions, I suggest you question them, specially when they are absolute. For example, “there’s no time to dedicate to what I love”. Really? No time, zero? Is that the absolute truth? Try to be more truthful. Maybe the time you have is not enough (but again, really?), which doesn’t mean zero time generally. Just being honest about your situation can help change perspectives and stop you believing the lies you tell yourself.
Do you enjoy watching videos? There are some professionals I regularly watch that usually help me see the directions I could go to improve myself. To tell the truth, I’m in a low right now and not being treated, but I wish I were.
Posting for convenience:
A list of suicide hotline numbers
Argentina: +5402234930430
Australia: 131114
Austria: 017133374
Belgium: 106
Bosnia & Herzegovina: 080 05 03 05
Botswana: 3911270
Brazil: 212339191
Bulgaria: 0035 9249 17 223
Canada: 5147234000 (Montreal); 18662773553 (outside Montreal)
Croatia: 014833888
Denmark: +4570201201
Egypt: 7621602
Finland: 010 195 202
France: 0145394000
Germany: 08001810771
Holland: 09000767
Hong Kong: +852 2382 0000
Hungary: 116123
Iceland: 1717
India: 8888817666
Ireland: +4408457909090
Italy: 800860022
Japan: +810352869090
Mexico: 5255102550
New Zealand: 045861048
Netherlands: 09000113
Norway: +4781533300
Philippines: 028969191
Poland: 5270000
Russia: 0078202577577
Spain: 914590050
South Africa: 0514445691
Sweden: 46317112400
Switzerland: 143
United Kingdom: Various recources
USA: 18002738255
You are not alone. Please reach out.
There’s lots of people out there that struggle with these same issues. You’re not alone. The fact that you’re reaching out here tells me that you know there is still more to do for you. Seems like you’re not done, you’re just stuck. I’ve been there, but I got out and that’s definitely been worth the wait and the effort. There’s no light without darkness. I feel like I couldn’t appriciate life the way I do now, if I hadn’t gone through all the shit.
Anyways, you should definitely reach out to a hotline in your country. They know what you’re going through and they can help.
Shits hard, so don’t blame yourself. You aren’t defective.
Suicide is also a bad idea and you are going to regret it if you find you’ve put yourself in an unstoppable position. This is evidenced by people who miraculously survive their attempts.
Be brave and seek help. There is zero shame in this, regardless of what the media or social conditioning might say.
There are groups of people that meet regularly for all sorts of reasons. Attend the meeting you can find that most closely relates to your problem. If you don’t know what or where that is, I recommend starting with Alcoholics Anonymous. Even if Alchohol is not your problem, they will not turn you away, are likely to listen to anything you have to say and will help you find the group that is right for you.
If the AA group you’ve found is full of unhelpful weirdos (some are) find another one.
Late stage capitalism is very unhealthy for a lot of reasons and suicide is on the rise.
It may look like it from where you are, but you are not alone.
Suicide is also a bad idea and you are going to regret it if you find you’ve put yourself in an unstoppable position. This is evidenced by people who miraculously survive their attempts.
Also, no matter how little you think you mean to anyone, it’s going to hurt them.
My friend killed himself back in 1991 and 33 years later, I still think about him at least once a week.
We used to share music so new stuff I hear, I think if he would have liked it. He was an incredible intelligent and astute person so I think about all the insights he might have shared with me.
Most of all, I’ve still no idea why he did it. The ‘daily’ issues he had going on were not insurmountable and despite conversations we had ranging all manner of subjects, there was no indication of him being troubled by deeper issues.
He got a lift into town with his stepdad to collect his bike, went to the top of a car park and jumped off.
No note. No indication. Nothing.
Personally, the main thing that makes me stay alive is the hope that it might get better in the future. I tell myself that as long as I believe in myself, there’s always a chance for a better future. Always a chance that whatever bullshit I’m in, it’ll be over eventually. Additionally, I keep suicide close with me. For all problems, I think to myself that there’s always one solution, which is suicide. This thought kind of comforts me, because regardless of how bad things become, I always have an easy way out.
For some general tips, I’d suggest you start exercising. Additionally, make sure you stay hydrated, drink enough and eat enough. Basically, just make sure you’ve got a healthy body, because a healthy mind cannot exist in an unhealthy body. Or at least, it’s very difficult to have a healthy mind in an unhealthy body.
Next, I suggest you start thinking ‘What’s the main problem in my life right now? If I were a millionaire, how would I use my wealth to get out of my problems?’. If you know what exactly is causing your unhappiness, then you can try and fix it. And if your job is a problem, then be more specific. What exactly about your job makes you unhappy?
That one question “If you woke up tomorrow with 100 million dollars, what would you do to improve your life right now?” Is very powerful. My first response was “Pay off all my debt”.
The second most powerful question is: “What else?”
What else would you do after your debts are paid? What else would make you happy once you don’t HAVE to work? What else would you do now you are debt free and have the time you need to enjoy life? What else fulfills you?
By the time I hit the 3rd/4th “What else?” I realised what I was actually needing. In my specific case it was a creative outlet that I had been neglecting for years. I would remind myself daily about that one goal and, thought it took me 3 weeks, I eventually managed to pull out my guitar and start playing again.
2 years later and I’m sucking at guitar daily and going for runs. I have remade connections with people I thought were lost and genuinely started enjoying the little bits of life I have made. Debt is still there and work is relentless, but my 30min with my guitar has become a grounding point where I can remind myself “Things will get better, incrementally. What else can I do to make the little things better?”
Apologies about the wall of text. Depression is the worst version of ourselves and I hope OP can get through it.
Buy a tiny house, put all my music stuff in it, invite some friends and make some synthwave.
Then, boot up Linux, contribute to open-source and reach the highest level of masteries of the C programming language arcanes.
At night, buy good groceries from the store to make super good food and then DM my roleplaying game campaign for my friends and go to bed after a full filling day of meaningful work.
Then try to visit the world, meet people, make friends, talk do stuff and repeat.
I want to work, but work on meaningful stuff.
To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all.
- Oscar Wilde
I have been dealing with this for 24 years. Ideation happens for me when there are no plausible steps I can take to improve my situation, and by extension, I lose interest in things that usually make me happy because they aren’t distracting enough to get me off the treadmill.
The only thing that helps at these times is the actions of others to bring me back (if temporarily) to feeling like I’m not cut off from society.
I allow and acknowledge them. I know that I should seek help when they become more concrete, but as log as it’s just a death wish it’s nothing to worry about.
Do know that your current situation is not indefinite. Sometimes, a door closes but a window opens.
I have this « job » that I’ve been stuck with forever now.
How are you stuck?
Unless you’re literally a slave (which I doubt), the only way one could be “stuck” in a job is because we live in a capitalist society where you need employment to survive. I had a miserable job a few months ago, to the point where suicidal thoughts I hadn’t had in a while crept back up. I just quit. Even if that meant uncertainty with regards to housing/groceries (I still haven’t found a job and not going to lie, shit’s a bit rough right now).
If you’re thinking of killing yourself anyway, why not quit? Why not drastically change your life? What have you got to lose? Surely not your will to live. Either you’re going to be miserable (which it sounds like you’re already there) or maybe things will eventually get better. Either way, you’re not going to get much lower morale than being suicidal.
Best of luck to you, I hope you figure out a way to see yourself out of this. For what it’s worth, this internet stranger believes in you. Hope to see you tomorrow.
I understand how you feel. I go for long walks and listen to some mindfulness gurus. Nature helps. It at least gives me some moments of respite, even if it doesn’t truly solve the issue.
Decades ago I couldn’t stop thinking about suicide. It was persistent throughout many months. Then my doctor gave me lithium. I took it in the morning. By late afternoon I no longer wanted to die.
It’s not perfect. I had many crisis since then. I have a psychotherapist and a psychiatrist. Nothing I did or took since then was nearly as efficient as an old cheap medicine called lithium. I still take it everyday.
So I guess my answer is “I don’t really deal with those thoughts”. I don’t engage. I treat them. What’s the point of arguing with a disease? If I had cancer, would I get chemo or just think about it very hard?
I have been in the same boat. I have no friends, but a wife and kid. Life sucks a big one, especially work and the work-life balance, and finances, etc.
The only thing that helps me is medicine. I’m on a cocktail of Dextroamphetamine for ADD, Lamotrigine for Bipolar Disorder, and Propranolol for anxiety. I’m still far from 100%, but I’m in the more positive side of the fence.
Talking about problems can help a lot of people, and that’s great to have a therapist, but it doesn’t work for me. Talking about stuff doesn’t change my circumstances, neither does my mindset. Definitely discuss issues with a doctor and medicate. Nothing else has helped me deal with the shit in life.
I think I’m gonna become a weed farmer then. Better life, better mindset and the music will sound fire.
I agree that for some people, suicide is actually a best option. This is JUST my own opinion. If you’ve considered it well, and you understand what you’re doing, why should it not be a choice? If we had a truly human culture, we WOULD have suicide booths (or at least clinics) for adults of a certain age who meet certain criteria and have thought their decision out thoroughly.
That said, I’ve wrestled with those same thoughts and feelings when I was younger. Now I’m 60 and nothing could convince me to commit suicide; not just because I’m a lot closer to the grave anyway. But because it’s taken me decades to see and love the value in being myself.
I did have to walk away from some truly abhorrent jobs, even at the risk of losing money. And I learned to make more time for the things I enjoy. It’s been a process, there isn’t a simple magic solution. Consultation with a therapist is very helpful, and can put you back on the right track.
When you are deathly ill, you go see a doctor to get cured. The same should be true for when your mind is ill and upset. Get some good help, and be OK with fighting for your right to feel good. It’s not really about who might miss you when you’re gone, that’s not the right reason to avoid suicide. It’s because no matter who might or might not miss you, you have your own intrinsic value and worth that needs discovering.
