- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
LOL.
We pay for 4K, but we don’t get more than 720p unless we use some proprietary shit hardware and agree to their super-invasive “privacy policy” - and they expect people to NOT set sail in the high seas? GTFO…
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I’m willing to pay for one, maybe two subscriptions, and ain’t nobody got time to dig for which service has what show to find out season 2 is on some other service entirely.
Piracy provides a better user experience 🤷♂️
Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem - Gaben
I generally agree with him, but there are a lot of people who pirate simply because they don’t want to pay. And I’m not casting moral judgment here, i just feel like it bears mentioning lol “almost always” is pretty generous
No it also means it’s a service problem in the sense that it’s not priced right for a geography. Pricing a game $70 where local average monthly income is $120 a month is a service problem. If you expect people from that geographic region to pay, the product should be priced within their means. And thus argument is valid only for digital goods where every new copy of the said goods costs mere few cents.
You’re gonna have to put in some work to convince me he used “service“ to also say “too expensive” when he said that. Hell GAAS as a concept didn’t even exist when he said that.
Lets compare three options as example:
One streaming service with everything:
- monetary costs: 25 €/month
- opportunity cost: login, type name in search bar, enjoy in good quality, language and subtitles of choice
Piracy:
- monetary costs: 0-5 €/month (hardware/vpn)
- opportunity costs: keep up to date with existing aggregator sites, take protective measures against identification, be wary of malware, limited scope of languages and subtitles, varying quality
Current streaming services:
- monetary costs: 100 €/month or more, if you cover most services
- opportunity cost: login to each service, look if they have the particular series/movie, be limited by region to which languages and subtitles you can use, have only certain episodes or certain seasons of a series, get a movie as a result, but actually have to pay extra for lending it…
People choose whether to pay monetary or opportunity costs. For a broke student priacy might still be the way to go, because they have time but not money. For most people a convenient streaming service will be the way to go though, because not having to worry about everything around and just finding your movie/series in 30 seconds, after you put dinner in the plates is the preferred option.
The current situation combines high monetary costs with high opportunity costs, so that piracy becomes attractive to many people, who would be happy to pay for a streaming service, that actually covers everything.
So i think “almost always” is perfectly applicable. Also keep in mind, that the offer of pirated stuff is directly related to the demand. if the demand reduces, so will the offer, which in this case would make piracy even less convenient. Of course the pricing matters, and if the one streaming service would cost say 50 €/month, more people would pirate again. But the dominant factor first is the service quality.
He made that statement when streaming barely existed. People were still primarily buying DVDs. That was the late 2000’s when it was only Netflix, maybe Hulu was just starting, and game streaming was barely a concept.
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For gaming, you’ve got Steam, which is pretty close to the ideal legit content delivery service. You don’t even necessarily have to pirate in order to demo games if you’re comfortable paying up front and making a decision within 2 hours.
Nothing similar exists or has existed for TV/Movies. Netflix was pretty good for a while, but you’ve never had the option to download the content to your own hard drive. Now you’re not even allowed to log in to your account on as many devices as you want.
Give me a service that’s a free storefront where I can pay a one-time fee for content that I’m actually interested in and download it to my hard drive as many times in as many places as I care to. Bonus points if I can stream to other devices that I’m logged in to and lend my purchases to my friends & family like I can with Steam. I don’t care if there’s DRM in the form of me having to log in to actually use the content if I can use it the way I want.
There is no way they could possibly know the percentage of Pirates to do that. Just because it occurs doesn’t mean there aren’t countless people who do it for free things. It’s also important to remember that those claims come from advocates, so you need to take it with a ton of caveats/pinches of salt. They have a pretty strong incentive to make that case.
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What? There is no information. You made a broad assertion. You don’t have a single source for that claim.
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If that’s true on its face, then you’re not losing any money either way since they are never going to pay regardless even if you try to force them to.
Meanwhile, you can absolutely scare away what could have been a paying customer by offering dogshit service.
That’s never been an assumption you can make.
If you hand me a $10 version of a thing or a $5 option of the exact same thing, I’m taking the $5. Free is no different. Especially when they can do it from the comfort of their home and not drive to a mall to buy the CD or whatever. Remember what year it was when this all started man.
Remember what year it was when this all started man.
1903 when Edison v. Lubin was filed?
If you’re going to be a smartass then I have no desire to continue this conversation. I am talking about when piracy became mainstream via napster because it became easy for people to get free music.
No it also means it’s a service problem in the sense that it’s not priced right for a geography. Pricing a game $70 where local average monthly income is $120 a month is a service problem. If you expect people from that geographic region to pay, the product should be priced within their means. And thus argument is valid only for digital goods where every new copy of the said goods costs mere few cents.
People who pirate because they don’t want to pay will never, ever pay. Not worth considering them to be honest.
Im willing to pay for two. It used to be netflix and prime, then hulu, paramount plus, disney…
Now its down to one- Proton VPN 🏴☠️
I use Mullvad. How good is Proton?
The best public option is Proton imo. With paid subscriptions you even get access to Secure Core servers where Proton runs their own data centers instead of hiring 3rd-parties like NordVPN, etc.
Case-point: Nord has been hacked before bc of third-party data centers. Proton has no breaches so far and does regular security audits, has plenty of servers outside the 14 Eyes Alliance, and actively fund privacy focused projects.
Mullvad is a close second bc of their anonymous payments.
It really depends on the quantity and sensitivity of the content I’d say.
But Proton has replaced everything I used Google for (Drive/Email). Proton will work for a good 90% of everyone most likely.
I’m all in on proton personally.
I dont have much to compare it to.
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How the fuck do you expect me to just jump into The Two Towers and not expect me to want to watch The Fellowship of the Ring first?! Oh you think I’m going to go buy/rent the first movie 😂 that’s cute.
How do people still not grasp that Netflix can’t just buy whatever they want to stream? Licenses are often being held by other services at the time. They also have no control over if a show gets pulled or not. I still see people complaining that Netflix “got rid” of the Office.
Like, I have no love for Netflix or any streaming service at this point, but at least shit on them for things that are actually in their control.
And frankly, this is how HBO, Showtime, Stars, etc have operated like this for decades before Netflix came along. It’s so weird people think “shows/movies being pulled because the license deal expired” is something unique to Netflix.
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Music industry seemed to figure it out pretty well. Except for a few rare case outliers, it doesn’t matter if I’m using Apple Music, Spotify, Amazon music, etc. Sure they all have different features, but I can blast Taylor Swift to my heart’s content and never leave one app
For the record, you can use justwatch.com and it will tell you exactly where you can watch it, and which seasons. But I’m still not paying for multiple subscriptions.
Since #1 on the list is always The Seven Seas there’s no reason to proceed further.
I saw this on someone’s phone and was wondering what it was, seems neat tbh but I already own a ship 🏴☠️
Stremio also has a default addon with this info
Hell, I even pay for a service that has all the magnet links resolved and ready to stream, no downloading involved. For 30 bucks (a year!) it’s been the most convenient way of enjoying movies & shows.
I am actually paying for a piracy service : )
Got two. Not doing anymore. Ive had up to 4 or 5 and still couldn’t find what I wanted.
https://www.gamesradar.com/gabe-newell-piracy-issue-service-not-price/
As Gabe Newell said: “Piracy isn’t a pricing issue, its a service issue”
As my friend said: "every time a plastic video disc says " operation not permitted " a torrent is born…
As I say: “People will pay when it’s easy, more reliable and more convenient.” As a software product manager, I forbid my product from ever wasting developer cycles with copy protection… It’s expensive to deliver, annoying to real customers and doesn’t make us any more money…
As a user of software, I salute you.
I don’t disagree with anything but I feel like GabeN said that before streaming and subscriptions took over.
Photoshop is an incredibly easy to use and powerful tool for creators - I’d be happy to drop like $200 on, for example, the 2024 version. I’m not happy to spend $10 or $30+ a month for life to use it, especially when they lock you in to a year subscription and charge you a fee if you cancel early so you literally can’t just sub only the month when you need it, it’s the whole year, period. I’ll just pirate or use photopea or whatever.
Similar for streaming. Netflix gave us the option to pay for more screens to watch on. Now suddenly it matters whose house it’s in?? All while you’re constantly removing value from the platform and you cancel anything decent if the production value is too high? Fuck you man I’m not paying like $30 monthly for that.
Please do keep voting with your wallet - its one of the few remaining ways to express our discontent!) That being said, I feel like both of those examples are where the service provided by adobe and then Netflix are terrible.
Adobe is making you buy a whole year and Netflix is hassling you for “letting your pensioner mum watch your account”… To me, both of those are examples of bad service (coupled with cost).
For me, a counter example for me is amazon.com: I hate what they’re doing to the retail landscape but find it hard to resist, as I find them SOOO convenient, and their customer service (for now) is absolutely stunning!!! Now if their prices were too high, I’d personally probably pay for that convenience a bit. (Where there model breaks for me completely is warranty major purchases: I’ve had warranty denied by manufacturers for items purchased through non approved amazon resellers. So now, for me, anything over $100 and I’m looking for direct purchase from the manufacturer as a preference. )
I think not getting what you paid for is a pretty big service problem idk man
Maybe people would pirate less if you let them keep what they pay for.
If buying isn’t owning…
You’re buying… A temporary permission to access certain content.
…then piracy isn’t theft.
No it’s just borrowing, it’s temporary anyway, I recently looked at some movies on a very old harddisk and it was like DVD quality or worse. Threw the entire disk out.
I don’t know if it’s even borrowing, really. If you borrow my drill, I can’t use it. If you torrent a movie… Like… You’re seeding, and more people can use it!
It’s almost like our economics models with supply and demand barely work for physical products and are even worse at modelling easily reproducible digital goods
Naaaah, probably just a coincidence, best not to think about such things. /S
12% over four years? Damn. Somehow I had the impression that there’d been a significant increase.
Netflix revenue is up by roughly 60% in the same four years.
Thank you for keeping things in perspective.
if these two numbers were reversed, piracy sites would get the same treatment as videos with actual criminal content. we’re lucky
I’m really surprised by this, specially since I cancelled Netflix over a year ago myself…
It’s like renting movies that can be taken away at any time since you don’t own them. And ads can be introduced whenever. Not to mention poor streaming quality on top of all this.
Cracking down on account sharing has sent lots of people sailing as well, and market fragmentation.
Don’t forget ads.
I’d happily pay for anything I consume if it were convenient, private, and no ads. Since I can’t get that anymore, well, it’s the high seas for me. I pay as much for high seas related services as I would for the official streamers, but the experience is 10x better.
Netflix turning off account sharing is what sent me to the high seas. Disney+ doing the same will push me over even more.
Is there anything with pirating on Disney+?
I could pirate all of Disney+ and never watch a damn thing.
Am childless.
I’m rewatching some old stuff on there as we speak.
Burn Notice, White Collar, Lie to Me. All great shows. Loki was good too.
Have cancelled it to run my own media server from now on though.
Sometimes piracy is the only method of archival
Some things are literally not available anymore by legal means. Piracy is an important tool in preserving content for future generations. Future historian will be proud of pirates.
Absolutely true, I was actually looking for this flash game mike shadow and the vending machine and it’s partly lock cause reasons, pirates where you at
I really want to show my friend the original Fullmetal Alchemist series, but Funimation has completely replaced it with the newer Brotherhood series everywhere. It’s such bullshit. I would be happy to pay them to watch it, but literally the only option is piracy.
Put everything on 1 or 2 platforms and take cuts depending on what people are watching.
I don’t care if there are 10 platforms. Let them compete on features and customer service, but the content should be available on all. A bit like ISPs, give me the content and pay the creator a cut when n I watch.
But fuck this 10 services with fragmented content.
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People saw how successful Netflix was and wanted the same even though it was never going to happen. By doing this they’ve now made Netflix shit too.
Everyone was saying this about the streaming boon then, too. We all saw “cable 2.0” headed at us.
You must have got down voted by a young person, because people have been seeing this coming for about a decade
That would be smart and is what originally happened.
Well streaming prices have gotten ridiculous.
It’s not just the prices, people are lazy. You can go to one place and get all the things or search 10 different places.
It’s not just the prices, people are lazy.
Or they just demand good value for their service. Netflix hugely curtailed piracy in their early days. Same with Valve’s Steam.
I stuck around with streaming for as long as I could but with the price increases, the restrictions, the lack of content as they revert back into cable bullshit has driven me back to getting the bulk of my stuff via torrents again.
Honestly, I’m pretty shocked that streaming remained decent for as long as it did but we all knew this was inevitable because we all know how this song and dance with greedy corporations go.
Paying up to 23$ a month (not including other streaming services) to watch maybe 5% of the shows and movies I’m interested in just didn’t seem like a good deal after a while.
Nope, you need more than 1 subscription, because quite often services only offer a few of the seasons of your favorite show, while the others are on different services.
Example: https://www.pokemon.com/us/animation/where-to-watch-pokemon-episodes-movies
EIGHT different services? That is some corporate greed bullshit right there.
LOL if it wasn’t on the official website I’d have assumed it was a joke.
Would you:
- Subscribe to Netflix for watching the first season
- Then subscribe to prime video and then subscribe again to a specific channel to watch season 2
- Cancel that useless extra subscription to the prime video optional paid channel to watch seasons 3-9
- Subscribe again to that channel to watch seasons 10-16
- Subscribe to Hulu to watch seasons 17-19
- Subscribe to the Roku channel to watch seasons 20-22
- Hope that they don’t alter the licensing deals during your view or you gonna subscribe to something else
Or… Just click on “get all missing episodes” on sonarr?
And for those that are able to keep to just one subscription, switching to another when they’ve finished watching whatever show it is that said service had, they aren’t safe either.
One of the next steps that these corporations are going to take is to add fees for dropping their services, with year long contracts.
They don’t want competition, so they will try to force you to stay.
Kind of what I meant as being a problem but thanks I guess.
I know a lot of people who are sailing the Seas until the streaming Market crashes. There’s way too many businesses trying to do the same exact thing which has limited the media selection available without paying multiple $12 a month subscriptions. Eventually they will either fold or merge together again
Ironically this is a double edged sword. If they merge, expect prices to rise. Won’t be long before $100/mo is expected and accepted.
Those are rookie numbers! Let’s pump it up!
This is the number one reason I won’t ever pay for a netflix subscription (or others) again. Pay for 4K but you dont get 4K if you want to watch on your laptop or android streaming box that they don’t approve of. Like how much fucking greedier could you be? Fuck them I hope they all go the way of blockbuster soon.
1 of those 12% is just me lol /s
I get pissed at my family for being traditional hoarders but I somewhat inherited that as a data hoarder. The amount of stuff I have pirated over the years and not actually used or watched is hilarious.
Same here. But on the bright side, at least data hoarding doesn’t take up a ton of physical space.
Well, it does if you do a lot.
What are we taking TB wise?
I have about 10TB of stuff. Around 600 movies and not quite 200 TV series. I’m planning on leaving societies embrace and being away from it all in a couple of weeks and have been hoarding stuff to keep me entertained, if needed. I’m not the one you asked, but here you go. I don’t really feel like I have a ton of stuff, from a datahoarder perspective, but probably a little more than the average torrent monster.
Hm are those high res movies? 10 TB seems to small
Kind of all over the place, but mostly 1080 or so. Here’s a little data:
I have 48 movies that are 1.7G, 43 that are 1.5G, and so on.
# of movies SIZE 48 1.7G 43 1.5G 33 1.9G 31 2.2G 31 2.0G 30 1.6G 27 1.8G 25 1.4G 21 2.1G 19 2.5G 16 1.3G 14 2.6G 14 2.3G 12 2.4G 10 2.8G 9 3.0G 9 1.1G 8 4.1G ...
Probably around 30tb but all in, but drives being from 400gb to 8 tb of varying age and make. Most are just shelved and in the off chance I want something from them they get hot swapped in the dock thing
Just upgraded my truenas and plex to 8tb drives. 1600+ movies, 60+ TV series, 40,000 songs. I seed as much as I can, have uploaded over 5TB this month alone. Come get some.
I haven’t used Torrents in years, since subscribing to Netflix. But I’m fed up with needing to pay 5+ different subscriptions to get coverage across shows, so perhaps time to think about other options. What are some of the best torrent sites today,?
I use OnTheSpot downloader to grab albums from spotify at 320kbps - https://github.com/casualsnek/onthespot
Use Soulseek (nicotine+) to grab more obscure stuff. Can get everything on there, just sometimes slower and not as reliable as a torrent.
I use these sites for movies, in order of convenience:
https://ytssss.jamsbase.com/ (basically just YTS)
https://www.magnetdl.com/ (search sucks, but if you get used to it, it has huge libraries of TV series)
https://en.torrentgalaxy-official.site/
https://psa.wf/ (PSA RIPS)
I don’t really download apps anymore, so malware really isn’t an issue, but make sure you’re using UBlockOrigin plugin and a VPN like TorGuard
Could try the *arr software. Sonarr is tv, radarr is movies and lidarr is music. You can use jackett to act as an indexer and it will automatically grab the shows.
Could try the *arr software.
Haha, do you ever feel like the last one to get the joke? I do sometimes.
I’ve used them for a very long time, maybe a decade if they have been around that long, could be a bit less. I’ve seen them referred to as the *arr suite/software many times. I didn’t know there was a joke to get until you pointed it out, I’m still facepalming.
So you are not the last one.
In my defence, I’m not a native speaker, but still…
My friends and I have been joking too much about this naming scheme without even mentioning what appears to be the intentional meaning… I feel rather dumb.
yeah, i’ve thought about it. but it’s cathartic to find music/movies, download and organize them, choose artwork in Plex, things like that. I’ve got them all organized in media monkey.
1337x and YTS are preferred for me. No sign up/log in BS
Regarding music, there’s also the slavart discord and their bot which allows you to download music from different streaming services in lossless formats
96KHz audio or bust.
oh god, the difference between some of my old rips at 128 and 320 is damn near night and day. i though the song just sucked, but the quality was just shit. also found a track that got corrupt, but still played, but at 1/10th the speed, it was about 30 minutes long, but normally only 3 lol. just stretched the fuck out of it.
You can also use this site for DDL’s if you’d prefer them. No ads or premium and actively updated: dhokla.net.
I can easily say that the amount of my friends and family that have become interested in my Emby setup has expontentially consistently increased every round that these streaming providers have increased their rates.
The experience of launching 7 different streaming apps to find something, content constantly vanishing or moving platforms, and just an overall poor user experience coupled with doubling/tripling of each platforms costs…
The companies have almost successfully re-introduced the very problem that streaming originally solved.
It’s like this dipshits don’t want our money. I’ve always been firm that any content removed from streaming services is a message from that content company that they don’t want the money of the customers subscribed to said service and thus are okay with those people pirating it instead.
If they cared about the money, they’d had left the content there.
But realistically even if pump and dump schemes like this make the customers hate them, it might still make more as a total sum - and if so as a cooperation they’d almost have to take the shitty route (or be surpassed by someone who will).
Yay capitalism
Yay capitalism
Lol, you think greed won’t exist under socialism? Greed is why communism fails every time. People are inherently greedy in a world where scarcity exists.
Why yes, greed is exactly why Cuba deserves to be embargoed for all eternity, look how flawed communism is lol haha /s
All I see here is pointing fingers at Cuba and Venezuela failing in places that they were sabotaged by the US, big surprise.
What use is communism when it’s so easily foiled by capitalism? Seems like a major flaw.
Luckily, we don’t live in a world where scarcity exists, just one with a resource distribution problem.
we don’t live in a world where scarcity exists
Wrong, there’s a distinct scarcity of logic in your arguments.
“Scarcity is so fundamental to economics that scarce goods are also known as economic goods. In economics, scarce goods are those for which demand would exceed supply at a price of zero.” https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/scarcity.asp
How many more democratically elected Latin American governments do we have to replace with fascist military dictatorships before you finally understand that socialism simply doesn’t work?
- The USA
My map is bigger and, global.
I win.
Uh no? I don’t think I really implied it wouldn’t either, nor even that I’m a socialist tbh
something something manufactured scarcity changes things
Bold of you to think that they even think of us at all.
I actually mean that seriously: we continue seeing, over and over, that no, quite often they do NOT expect people to NOT do that, they quite simply DGAF. They pirate us, we pirate them, it becomes just another “cost of doing business”, until they are strong enough to eventually crack down further. See ad blocking & Chrome recently, after multiple decades of internet ads pushing the limits.
It’s like a zombie nom noming your brains - after like 2 bites it’ll get bored and wander off, and it literally doesn’t even need to “eat”, it simply is so fucking DUMB that it doesn’t know what else to do with itself. It is truly horrifying b/c while your entrails may be strewn about on the floor, or in the throats of tens of zombies, they in turn… don’t even have the decency to be aware that you’ve died!?
Lower-level managers sell ideas to higher-level managers, and “logic” has little to do with those conversations, compared to the amount of emo-stroking that goes on “oh, you will become so rich, and powerful, and handsome, and brave, and precious” (from here:-P) - and so long as enough people play along, that happens!
Our world is just so fucking STUPID.
That said, what they do is on them, while what we do is on us. Find a way to live - hopefully by finding a way to contribute, if/where you can.
Us: We think about you all the time!
Corporations: Funny, because we don’t think of you ever.
(Funny b/c in this pic, corps are the ones who are dicks:-P)
emo-stroking
Is that what my girlfriend & I were doing in her bedroom in the early 00s listening to Brand New and Death Cab?
Probably, and it was surely glorious (if you did it right)!:-P
