Any critiques, desire for clarity, outright hatred, whatever have you. I will respond the best I can.
I know there’s been some blowback on some of the policy updates but it’s been difficult to really explain fully that the restrictive content policy is temporary, this community was very unmanaged for a time and it had to be reigned in somehow and with the limited tools at disposal the temporary policy changes were made.
Here’s a comment that also explains a little bit behind the decisions made recently as well.
For community mods, we have a community mod coord matrix group chat now. Feel free to DM about it.
Also, there’s another ongoing discussion regarding SFW communities on lemmyNSFW here.
While I’m not sure if there’s anything that can be done about it, I really don’t like that I’m able to see who reported my content. By not having the reporters be anonymous, it leaves a gateway for people to be harassed by others for making completely legitimate reports.
I’m not sure how likely it is that a case like this has happened already, but as the community grows, we’re bound to see people who are here in bad faith.
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Related to this subject – when a post by a moderator is reported, it ends up going to back to the same moderator to decide on it… when they are most definitely not a neutral party when their own possibly underage flat-chested anime schoolgirl post is reported.
Moderator reports should go to an unrelated third party to adjudicate.
Otherwise, in practice, moderators just resolve all the reports they don’t agree with.
As a moderator I was having the same idea the other day. i dont think we even need to make the backend changes honestly, we could just in the UI replace it with “anonymous”.
I have been dealing with nonstop reports of non consent. As aparantly unless someone is actively holding a sign saying “I consented to this” signed and dated prior to the interaction it’s now rape.
For example this post has been reported for rape:https://lemmynsfw.com/post/101797
And a post continues to be reported for rape becouse “(in the anime) the character depicted would never have consented to this, therefore it’s rape”
The default position that everything is rape, unless explicitly stated makes running many types of communities impossible.
This is made worse as other people have pointed out (including me) that 62 percent of women seek out CNC content (including my wife).
I also still struggle with the canonical age limits… link and zelda are only above 18 in one game so I have been consistently responding to reports from the lost woods community sending links to game wikis showing that they are above age. It is also weird to me that 90 percent of anime characters are considered loli regardless of how they are drawn, and that I have to argue that characters like rem are from later seasons as otherwise they would also be banned.
Edit: one other note, some users have also informed me “a school uniform means that it’s loli” due to their understanding of the rules
I just lost my really long comment that I had written, so I’ll make it quick…
Can the admins please clarify?
- My understanding is that the non-con rule only applies to IRL non-con that happened and was recorded in media, not stuff is like drawings of fictional characters, correct?
- How do we identify non-con? So far I understood that to mean explicit rape play, where a person tells the other person to stop and they don’t, but it seems people are interpreting this rule far broader? What is your definition?
- What are the requirements for a “sauce with obvious context” that’s proofs that something is consensual? Their profile says that all their recordings are consensual? It’s a professional shoot with a company? It’s an official post from an OF/Fansly creator? What counts as proof?
I have to agree with @paddedperson. There have been several cases where I as a mod have been unsure if something should count as consensual, as it’s rarely just outright stated. It’s made me a bit hesitant to post certain things, myself. I’ve also had reports of characters being underage, but all of the reported content, except for one post, have featured original characters with no specified age that to me could very well be young adults, or the character(s) are maybe 17 in the beginning of a series (Legend of Korra), but are 21 or so by the end of the series. Even the post that did feature characters that were slightly underage was a bit unclear to me if it should have been removed bc it only featured softcore type porn of characters from a series with prevalent female nudity (Ranma 1/2). I did end up removing that one.
Rude.
On anime girls in school uniforms / school settings, my take is that it shouldn’t be allowed unless it’s known canonically that they’re 18+.
I realize from our discussions that you believe that school uniforms should be allowed unless it’s known that they’re canonically underage, but this leaves a huge gap in artist OC with unknown ages. Over the years, I’ve listened to many people throw up this defense like a shield (“Oh they’re just cosplaying! We don’t know their age but they’re definitely adults!”), kind of like the 1000-year-old loli shield, but current guidance from the admins suggests that they prefer a conservative approach.
I get the reasoning, but I do feel that the rules are Way too strict on artwork (as opposed to pics/video of real people) to an unprecedented level. I’d like to see that reevaluated to be more in line with what other sites that allow NSFW permit - if they were facing legal trouble over that content, then they would ban it too, so I think it’s pretty evident that they don’t.
In particular this whole concept of establishing a “canon age” for every character and disallowing aged-up art strikes me as much worse than simply disallowing any art that looks underage.
I’d also like some clarity on how broad this goes.
Is captioned-in non-consent dialogue also prohibited? What about live action scenes with actors who are verified 18+ but have no curves and look young? Original art with unspecified age? Monster girls from species that don’t even live to 18?
There’s a lot there and it’s above and beyond virtually anywhere else. If this is part of the idea of broad, temporary restrictions as an attempt to reduce the admin workload, really what it’s going to do is create a lot of little fires to stamp out when the focus needs to be on the things that will get the site shut down the fastest (obviously illegal content and DMCA violations). Best to keep it simple, and simple is following established standards. Even if it means allowing content admins personally don’t like.
I agree. These rules only increase moderator workload, which really only contributes to burnout when the moderation tools aren’t good.
Please don’t allow communities to ban sellers. I think not allowing advertising in the community itself makes sense. I shouldn’t get excluded for having a fan site though! It’s incredibly entitled to expect girls to post nudity with no way to profit off of it. Give the good talent a reason to post on this platform 💘💘💘
I think the admins are trying to take a hands off approach to this overall to allow individual communities to establish the spaces they want. However i just wanted you to know that from the admins ive talked to we do really appreciate content creators and will keep an eye on it. and there have been comments in this post stating “we should ban all only fans creators” which i atleast wouldnt consider, and i havent heard any on the admin team seriously consider it.
If we see alot of communities start banning content creators overall (not just banning advertising, but full on banning posts from people with a paid platform in their bio/etc) we will revisit it, and try to make sure the space is as creator friendly as possible, however to a certain degree i wonder if it will naturally sort itself out as without content creators they arent exactly going to have content to grow yknow ?
Are there coms that are bothering you currently ? (cant promise things will change, but its good for us to pay attention to)
It would be nice if this platform was supportive of consenual creators vs banning them and allowing others to post stolen content. I just wanna have my link 😅
I don’t have any grievances with this platform. I have problems with Reddit and I’m hoping the culture is more consensual here 🫶🫶🫶
I don’t think there’s any intention of banning creators at all. In fact I think we’re open to advertising yourself and linking your sites, as long as you’re not intrusive or spammy…
edit: I should also add that the community mods are the ultimate deciders over the advertising aspect.
Give the good talent a reason to post on this platform
I totally agree with you. OC/seller talent is always welcomed at communities I moderate (with the exception of ones that are strictly studios/sites focused).
IMO, Reddit (and the subreddits I mod) benefited so much from the creative sellers.
I appreciate that 💘 On Reddit, some mods banned me for having a link in my bio on my own page. That seemed over the top to me.
I fully support your right to promote and make a living with your content. But there must be the possibility for people to create coms exclusively for exhibitionists that like to post for the thrill of it. These people has as much right to have a platform as you have. Mods are also literally working for free to keep coms safe, on topic and legal. Everyone should feel welcome on this site. (as long as they are following the rules and laws, of course) Let’s find a way to exist well alongside each other. :)
I’ll just chime in to say that while I have no problems with sellers (and all the amazing sex workers out there!), so many of these communities seem to be nearly overrun with people marketing content. I just want to be able to know when people are selling, and choose that kind of content, when it appeals to me.
Specifically, there’s an entirely different feel to for-profit porn versus for-excitement porn, and I, for one, am hoping for a little more space being made specifically for people in it for the fun - I’m thinking like /r/NoFans and /r/normalnudes for example.
I’ve always advised OC sellers to stay away from those subreddits and mod teams that run those fiefdoms (and I’m sure the same division lines will emerge here on Lemmy).
There are/will be many other welcoming places where you will be appreciated. And you can always create new vibrant communities yourself)
That’s fair. I read your site rules and I appreciate the emphasis on consent. I guess it was alarming to me to see that as a growing trend on Reddit & Reddit culture
Thats definitly over the top, while i dont think its what your concerned about, @Pornonmain’s response is one of the reasons the admin team is avoiding a blanket ban on the ban. just for coms that are focused around spur of the moment content, or amatuer content. i dont think generic coms like boobs or ass should be baning content creators outright, especially those not advertising in their posts
I replied deeper, but I’ll also put it here:
I don’t think there’s any intention of banning creators at all. In fact I think we’re open to advertising yourself and linking your sites, as long as you’re not intrusive or spammy…
But I should also add that the community mods are the ultimate deciders over the advertising aspect.
That makes sense! I agree that spammy content is a major turn off. I just want to be able to have a link in my bio 😅😅😅 I know advertising in the community itself is not it unless it’s designed for that. I guess mods have the say, so hopefully mods don’t ban girls for having a link on their own page like some did on Reddit
Ya I hope that’s not an issue. I think as the instance grows and people find “loopholes” to exploit, the issue becomes a balancing act of “how much moderation and manual effort does this rule require” - ideally we can build the tools necessary to make rules easily enforceable without being overly restrictive. Time will tell.
I mean ultimately, the goal is to provide a space that gives creators like you a good outlet to share your content without burdening remote instances with the overhead and complexities that adult content brings. We’re not here to make money, we’re out here trying to make the fediverse a better place overall so that creators like you aren’t beholden to corporations like reddit.
I guess we’ll see if we succeed or fail!
Makes sense!! I understand you guys are brand new and need to work out a lot. As a creator, I’m trying to find places to post that won’t delete my account like the bigger sites and apps. It is awful to constantly get my accounts deleted. I’m willing to be patient with a platform that could have more longevity and won’t delete me just because I do adult work
One of my biggest gripes with Reddit as a platform is the overabundance of amateur models spamming every single subreddit with the exact same posts to shill their OnlyFans and Fansly profiles, even to the point of posting their content in irrelevant subreddits without consequence. It’s at the point where the admins have all but abandoned the 10% rule for self-promotion.
Will you be implementing a policy to ban self-promotion for profit (and keep communities like Gonewild purely for exhibitionists), or at least encourage professional content creators to actually interact with the community and not astroturf LemmyNSFW with adverts for their OF like they’ve done with Reddit?
I think it’s mostly up to the community moderators to determine whether or not they want that content and how they will police it. As long as it doesn’t break site rules (new rules and clarification coming soon) then it’s not really something we want to micromanage.
With that said, link spamming is def not ok. I’m open to suggestions on how we can build out the toolchain that can ensure a good quality of posts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perceptual_hashing
Hash all the images in a separate table and make it searchable. It’s a lot of work but it also makes dealing with DMCA much easier as you can automate removal of obvious infringements and illegal content that’s spreading.
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This is what killed nsfw on reddit. All these beautiful, niche subs. Destroyed by of spam. I wrote a bot that scanned a posters history, and if it found an of link, it flagged them. Of course it was banned on reddit.
I am quite time poor to learn a new bot language here at the moment but in time I could give it a crack.
OF spam kills communities.
Based on what evidence?
As a mod of many subs on Reddit, what I saw killed a lot of the subs over thepast year is the proliferation of spam accounts that repost popular posts indiscriminately within a sub (OC, seller, doesn’t matter) in order to advertise products/websites, etc via pinned posts on their profiles. Plus the Reddit admins allowing “viral” subreddits to spring up on a daily basis by these spam rings.
Most competent mods on legit subreddits knew how to use automod and verification tools to handle sellers, etc. What drove a lot of us mods to throw up our hands and close off subreddits is the fact that we got no support from admins to combat spam/spammers (not the same as sellers).
And of course, at the same time, Reddit banned a lot of long time experienced moderator accounts which then resulted in many niche subreddits to be banned due to lack of moderation. From my viewpoint, the culprit is not due to sellers.
[Addition] - Just old history for reference
I wrote a bot that scanned a posters history, and if it found an of link, it flagged them. Of course it was banned on reddit.
Haha - what a coincidence! I was part of the ones that reported to Reddit admins such bots like the one you wrote so that those bots would be banned 😉 (and they were)
[Addition] rip onlyfansdetectbot, https://imgur.com/LrQhZv6, Full album for related screenshots wrt bot - https://imgur.com/a/tfqTKLg
I wholeheartedly and respectfully disagree. I used to visit the communities, let’s say /r/assholebehindthong or something like /r/assontheglass. It was a true community full of people who were into that particular fetish. It was smaller, traffic was not as fast, but the posts were quality. Pure quality.
Now it’s a non stop stream of:
- do you like my (insert appendage)
- my husband won’t fuck me, will you?
- upvote for nudes in your inbox
- etc etc etc
Total clickbait spammy shit. You’ll visit a subreddit like /r/doublevaginal and you’ll get an OF spammer posting an image that has nothing to do with DV and a title like “would you like to double vag me?!”.
The subreddits have been laid waste to the scourge of OF spamming. I yearn for the days when the subreddits were actual, real people posting real, focused content. It’s done, it’s gone and it’s nearly 100% OF material that’s killed it.
I totally understand the frustration you and many others have. It’s easy to simply point at sellers and say they are the cause - its so convenient to scapegoat.
in my reply earlier, ive laid out some of my observations (over 5 years) about the decline. A sub/community’s health and success is almost totally based on the moderator teams and whether they actually care about what they are moderating vs if they just want to build/expand little fiefdoms for ego reasons. And believe it or not, the community members play a huge part in reporting and weeding out spam and keeping the playground clean if mods motivate them and take action on reports.
As mentioned, most of the usual clickbait can and is easily handled by automod as well as by moderators who can lay out a vision and set reasonable rules for the community, as well as judicious banning. Talented sellers know how to properly focus on what the community want and deliver (without the clickbait). As an example, I took over r/LabiaGW for a couple of years from the founder of sub and grew it from 100K to 500k in that time (with the help of a healthy mix of true amateurs AND verified responsible sellers). The clickbait sellers don’t last long beyond a few days and are easily banned/weeded out by the community.
Unfortunately, Reddit allowed (explicitly encouraged?) spamrings to flourish and exist because it needed the traffic from such to keep showing subscribers and traffic “growth” metrics (likely for advertising and planned IPO purposes). Mods had to spend majority of the time fighting THAT spam so couldn’t focus on actually “moderating” and cultivating the communities. Reddit also banned/removed a lot of such responsible mods (or some mods just threw up their hands at lack of inaction about spam from Reddit admins and left the mod teams), and then these subs got taken over by shady folks who purpose is simply to promote and actively provide forums for the spam stuff you mentioned. Try looking at various mods/rings that currently “operate” the subs full of the spam you abhor, vs the successful subs that remain relatively clean and are growing. Ask yourself why Reddit admins allow hese shady folks to flourish even when repeatedly reported, but actively seek out to remove ban responsible mods who do such reporting…
I hope Lemmy admins are reasonable and smart enough to recognize the true causes and don’t knee-jerk ban sellers.
Yeah but at this point they’re probably helping growth since they post so much actual content, so I think having a light hand towards them is beneficial. Still should be in the proper subs though.
Not sure if this belongs here but…
Does every celebrity or porn star really need their own community?
Was browsing by new and almost every celebs post had a duplicate in the ultra specific community just for that one celeb.
Why is everybody trying to police this instance like it was a single little subreddit? Would Reddit have gotten far if it had been so anal about what communities people can and cannot create?
There’s always gonna be communities that other people don’t want to see, and with a growing community there’s gonna be more and more of them. So instead of policing them all, just subscribe to communities you’d like to see, then look at the “Subscribed” view, that what it’s literally there for.
I’m not policing anything. Was just posing the question. I’m not saying what we should do. This post is asking for feedback. That was my feedback.
Yeah… Noticed that. I don’t like it, but that said won’t it be up to the users to see what survives and takes root?
I’d rather they didn’t exist, but at the same time the freedom of this kind of platform might be compromised if mods just start shutting down communities as they see fit.
I’m split 50/50 on this.
Yeah, I see your point too, which is why I phrased it as a question. Reddit was big enough that these would just be buried. Also, things are so new and in flux I can’t just stick to subscribed right now. ONce the dust settles it will be easier to just ignore.
won’t it be up to the users to see what survives and takes root?
I would agree, but all these celeb communities is making lemmynsfw nigh-unusable for me. Right now, they make up well north of 90% of all communities on this instance, meaning the front page is devoid of any other content unless one uses subscribed-only view or blocks them all.
Being able to one-click block communities from the communities list would help a lot.
Edit: Nevermind, I’m dumb - Hadn’t enabled ‘Show NSFW’ in settings. Still, I don’t see why the celebs can’t just all go in /c/celebs.
The point is, they can go wherever people want them to go that make a certain community. That’s the wole point. If Reddit had been this hardass about creating certain communities or not, it would’ve never grown as much as it did.
It just sets a really bad precedent. So celeb communities are first, ok. But next we’re debating if exhibitionism and holdthemoan should better be just one sub, and then if gonewild and gonewildeurope should just be one, and why do there have to be more than ONE subs for JAV, or hentai, or… the list is endless. Don’t start policing the instance like it was a subreddit.
Instead, just switch to “Subscribed”, like we all did as the most normal thing in the world a few days ago.
Part of the challenge is the discoverability. I like to view the community list or all to find new communities to subscribe to. With the huge number of celeb communities it becomes hard to find content I’m interested in.
I just made a post after discovering all the local communities. If you’re interested you can check this post.
I’m sure as lemmy’s grows also this instance (this instance barely one month, btw) we will have new features to take care of all of this and create users’ the best experience. The fact maybe I started early and they growing/active fast, they will appear first when you explore communities.
I hope sorting communities will be available soon. I need that too
I just made a post after discovering all the local communities. If you’re interested you can check this post.
Still, I don’t see why the celebs can’t just all go in /c/celebs.
Then, the same logic is applied to other duplicate subject communities. Age, pussy, hentai, pornstar, asian, bdsm, tits, dick, cosplay, cum, femdom, freeuse, girls, hair, indian, nsfw, onlyfans, porn, sexy, sissy, tiktok, etc. All this subject has multiple communities not just one.
I’m sure as lemmy’s grows also this instance (this instance barely one month, btw) we will have new features to take care of all of this and create users’ the best experience. The fact maybe I started early and they growing/active fast, they will appear first when you explore communities.
I hope sorting communities will be available soon. I need that too
the same logic is applied to other duplicate subject communities
Yeah, that’s fair. I don’t have a problem with specialized communities, and I agree that better filtering tools is the way to go.
Until those tools are available though, perhaps you could slow down a little on opening new communities? Take a look at the front page in logged out mode and you’ll see what I mean.
perhaps you could slow down a little on opening new communities? Take a look at the front page in logged-out mode and you’ll see what I mean.
Because a guest only sees SFW stuff. Mostly dominated by us that post Celebrities and do not necessarily mark communities as NSFW. Discovering local communities is now sorted by active users. If a lot of non-celebrities posters actively post/comment and their communities will get higher spots. Btw, it’s only a few of us who post celebrities, I can say with all these communities I’ve only moderated approximately 10-15 posts/day. Maybe less, if me or @[email protected] doesn’t contribute
It’s all @Madness, he mods 170 communities, almost entirely celebrities.
I have absolutely no interest in celeb communities, and they’re clogging everything up. Not sure what the solution here is, as I agree with @hedidwot that just becaue I don’t like it doesn’t mean they should be removed. Perhaps being able to hide communities by tags or by mod?
I just made a post after discovering all the local communities. If you’re interested you can check this post.
I’m sure as lemmy’s grows also this instance (this instance barely one month, btw) we will have new features to take care of all of this and create users’ the best experience. The fact maybe I started early and they growing/active fast, they will appear first when you explore communities.
I hope sorting communities will be available soon. I need that too
For the record, I don’t fault you or have any ill will towards you. Apologies if that’s how it came across. Just that you created the majority of the celeb communities.
I don’t speak for the entire admin team, but I don’t think we have any interest in policing the community creation provided they have enough moderators to prevent abuse compared to their level of activity (re: huge communities need more mods than small)
We are looking into users who create communities en-masse and are not active.
I asked @[email protected] a couple weeks ago about possibly having RedGifs links fully working with proper embedding (like on reddit). Not sure if the recent changes about the instance admins will have any impact on this kind of things, so I’m posting this just to check if it’s something that it’s still being worked on. Again, no rush :)
I’d definitely post more from there if the embed was as nice as e.g. using RES.
Very true. Currently Red gifs links are very cumbersome to view.
Yeah, same… I even opened a couple of communities I already mod on Reddit, but I don’t feel like posting even in there because it seems kinda pointless if it just shows as a list of links. I like pictures but porn is at its best in video form imho… and right now there is no good enough way to post a porn clip, which is definitely an issue on a porn-focused instance…
This is a core lemmy enhancement we’d have to make. I’m looking into better video handling, but the core dev team would need to accept that code change. If you’re using an app you’ll need to raise this with the app developer.
I’m talking about the web version, which for the time being I think will be the most used by a lot of users as apps are still a WIP.
I thought this could be added with a UI patch like the other post view settings like blur NSFW and auto expand, but I guess I was wrong. Anyway, again, I’m not asking for an ETA or something like that, it’s just to point out one missing thing that I think would be really great to make more people posting content and even more staying here to watch it :)
Yeah kinda odd that such a basic function of a link aggregator site like this doesn’t work… that’s going to be a huge barrier to adoption and new users.
My initial impressions as a new lemmy user: Sure, it could use more content, bugfixes, discoverability, and so on. But it’s the reddit alternative I’ve been looking for. I see so much potential and I think I can finally make the switch for good.
However, since then it’s been constant bans and defederations that have somehow made it more restrictive than reddit. I have no interest in and will never understand the appeal of communities like scat, vore, guro etc. but I think that they have a right to exist and greatly contribute to that “early internet” feel. The stance towards most fictional/drawn content seems fairly arbitrary as well.
I understand the reasoning behind these restrictions given the state of lemmy right now, but I really hope this is as temporary as you say.
Once lemmy matures to a point where some of the more controversal content is not automatically promoted to other instances by default (like in /all) and there are better ways to filter and tag content, can we expect a return from the more edgy communities? Will lemmyNSFW really federate with more instances? Because the current state of things along with statements from previous admins make the instance feel pretty hostile right now.
The admin team is trying to resolve these issues to the best they can, The scat, vomit, and bloody are temporary bans, and in private they do make it very clear that they dont want it banned permenantly, i know it can be hard as a user to trust admins on this, but the best i can do is assure you that they want to make the right call on that.
I beleive ( I cant speak for the admins directly, but this is my understanding of the conversation) That the plan is for the final ban list once tools improve to be
IRL: Rape/NonConsented posting/deepfakes (legal reasons (alot of countries require you to act on this style of content)) underage content of any kind (legal reasons) Random Gore (like liveleak stuff, we dont really think we are the right place for this) Bestiality (Legal Reasons) Politics especially of certain countries (Legal Reasons, due to country of hosting)
Drawn/hentai/etc Underage content of any kind (legal reasons) Bestiality (Legal Reasons: so essentially non anthro of relatively realistic animals. (Legal Reasons, think things like Non humanoid looking pokemon, non anthro furry, unicorns,dogs,horses,etc) r/Guro style NSFW (again i think they just dont really think this is the best place for this, but they might be open to revisiting it in the future)
Ones im unsure what admins think, but they are currently reconsidering: The hentai consent rules are difficult right now, and they know that they are looking for solutions, and likely it would get redone when scat/vomit is re allowed as that would also allow hiding triggering content like this. Im unsure what degree they are looking at changing it.
As far as i recall The defederations have been either due to legal issues (avoiding hosting loli and such as we have to rehost the data from any federated instances) or in the case of one of them becouse the instances admins encorouged users to go to different instances, and troll their admin teams. This caused a massive mess across the lemmyverse, and resultted in many instances defederating from them, and stating they would defederate with instances that remained federated with them.
@[email protected] correct me if im wrong here, i tried to sum up the discussions we have had ?
I’m still of the opinion that if tentacle monsters are allowed, pokemon sex (or any fantasy monster) should be allowed. If pokemon isn’t allowed, tentacle monsters shouldn’t either.
Honestly, all I fundamentally care about is consistency.
My opinion about rape/cnc (in fiction) is the same too. Either it’s all allowed or all disallowed; otherwise it’s impossible to distinguish between rape/cnc satisfactorily (and I still disagree with your assessments that xyz “aren’t rape” – ask random people who aren’t familiar with hentai on the street and I still think they would think at least 70% of the images probably depict something nonconsensual).
Also I’ll continue to make reports on this subject (for artwork that appears to be nonconsensual) until @gavi or one of the admins update the official rules, so please encourage them to make an official announcement on the matter.
your free to do that.
That being said i will ignore any reports relating to the following subjects:
Tentacle’s not being allowed
character would not agree to this
wearing schoolgirl uniform therefore loli. Colleges, fetishes, and seniors exist. Ill still check the characters age wherever possible, especially on any report
Rape becouse drugs are in frame
I will take and have taken all other reports seriously
If that’s true, then that would be reassuring. I really don’t agree with some of the current rules as they are (like the pokemon one makes almost zero sense to me, especially since it’s a staple of r34 coms) but I understand why they’d be taking it slow right now.
Good moderation is vital to a healthy community as big as this one aims to be, but if these rules are here to stay, I would seriously consider moving to a different instance.
If the admins could confirm a reevaluation once the tools improve and keep us updated on that, then I think I can stick around. I still like this instance overall and want to see it grow.
So i was actually running the pokemon one that got banned, and to be clear the porn they banned was feralstyle hentai (it was port of this subreddit :https://www.reddit.com/r/FeralPokePorn/) which makes a bit more sense compared to like banning gardevior or something. i do hope the rules relax over time, its always hard at the start of projects like this especially when your dealing with hosting the content yourself
I think once we can clarify the legal standard we (as admins) and our hosting is going to be held to, we’ll be able to. There’s a general concern that if we aren’t absurdly proactive and protective then one of us might end up in jail for this instance, and no one wants that.
But we also don’t really have any money for lawyers, too, so like, it’s hard to figure this out.
In my estimation, assuming communities have competent and responsive and rule abiding moderators, I don’t see why these communities can’t exist.
Yeah, I’m out. I was enjoying this instance at first, but it clearly has shown itself to not be hentai friendly. The rules are way too strict, and are about to get even stricter?? I was going to attempt to work within the rules anyway with my communities, but banning @paddedperson has shown me that I don’t infact want to stay here at all. They were running most of the hentai communities here and we were starting to work together to make our communities even better. They had legitimate concerns about the rules that were not being addressed. I’ve also stated my concerns in this post and have not had any response.
The post you likely saw was wrong and was working off an outdated draft that was not accepted by the rest of the admins. There will be an update soon from gavi.
The sooner we can get an update, the better. @[email protected] seemed like a really nice and devoted mod and most of the communities here that interest me are the ones they oversaw. If they were banned unfairly, and that kind of content is going to continue to be in the admin’s crosshairs for no justifiable reason, I see little reason to stay either.
I agree, tbh I didn’t see it coming at all, he was engaging in the conversations and I was under the impression he was a core sysadmin, and then suddenly he left. If anything, he and I were on the same page, and I thought we made our points articulately and well, and in the end I think we made good convincing arguments that resulted in a completely new rule set by the time I woke up this morning. And, in my opinion, that rule set DRAFT is much better.
The reality is that none of us really know each other, no one has met face to face, and really barely anyone is in the same country. We have different ideals, different goals, and different ways of handling frustration and stress. I don’t really get why he did what he did, but all we can do is the best we can do.
Believe me, we all were caught very by surprise. I said elsewhere, but he and I were totally on the same page, and we made our points and they were largely accepted. Absolutely nothing was set in stone, and the most recent draft I was sent, while not perfect, has almost none of the language he was referring to.
edit: hm this didn’t get posted under the right comment. my mobile app is failing me!
FWIW, the revised ruleset that was applied recently is already pretty unfriendly to hentai.
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I wanted to express that I’m extremely concerned about the banning of @paddedperson and the deletion of their thread saying that they were migrating away from lemmynsfw.
As far as I can tell, @paddedperson was banned for leaking preliminary information about upcoming content policy changes from the admin discussion group. In my view, they were legitimate concerns, and retaliatory action taken against him are very concerning with respect to treatment of whistleblowers.
Can admins comment on this incident?
Truly transparent non-profit organizations (e.g. Wikipedia) typically release meeting minutes (a summary or transcript), or allow the public to attend voting meetings as part of the audience. Can the admins provide a summary or transcript of the votes taken on various decisions?
So I’m not really an “admin” - I’m a sysadmin/developer who was given the role of admin so I can make sure all systems (including modlog, reportings, and other tools) work as we adjust them for this instance’s very specific needs.
Padded got banned because he was trying to sabotage the efforts of an entirely volunteer group including revealing our hosting provider. We are not a “non profit organization” - lemmynsfw is a volunteer instance being run on donations. People need to understand that this is no one’s “job” and yet it’s literally taking a ton of our time. I’ve spent so many hours pouring over lemmy code, system configurations, working with the mod tool group, brainstorming, writing code, and trying to help the real admins where I can…
And seriously, no one is being paid for this, donations barely cover server costs, and any excess donations are being saved because it’s anticipated that server costs will continue to rise while donations don’t. Besides, I don’t think any of us WANT to be paid for fear of reprisal from our respective governments for “making money” off serving pornography.
When the creator put out his call for help, a bunch of us stepped up to try to keep the server alive, but this is not an easy instance to run. Please understand that.
To be clear, the volunteers/admins at Wikipedia are not paid either. From my personal experience in Wikimedia communities, my sincere advice is to consider and take transparency seriously.
The most important resource in volunteer spaces like this is ‘trust’.
I hope you and the admin team recognize that in order to run a website like this, you also require the trust and buy-in from moderators (who are also unpaid) to invest the many hours into their communities just as you have done for the server. Hiding things from moderators, sending mixed messages, and making secret deliberations (with rumors that some admins are eager to remove large quantities of content) is really damaging for that relationship of trust.
The recent content policy changes (even before padded’s leak) have been dictatorial top-down decrees. However, these unilateral rule changes are impractical/meaningless when moderators have not agreed to enforce those rules – and I’ve personally experienced this (at best, only 30% of the content that I’ve reported for content policy violations have been addressed by moderators). Realistically, no moderator wants to enforce rules they don’t believe in, and if they leave, the departure of skilled talent cripples this website and leaves communities effectively unmoderated in practice.
Please consider improving the transparency of these content policy deliberations, and at the very minimum, incorporate community moderators into the discussion and ascertain that they are in agreement with the rules before rolling out changes on the drop of a dime.
It’s impossible to please everyone, tend to our jobs, and tend to our families and lives. Concessions will always be made. I don’t know how wikipedia handles all that, but I don’t see how we can do that.
There is a matrix channel for public lemmynsfw discourse, https://matrix.to/#/#lemmynsfw:matrix.org - there’s not a lot of activity there but if you have questions or want a more direct line with us, that’s where we are. We can make a mod specific room and invite folks to have a mod-centric discussion if you think that’s helpful.
But please, please, PLEASE remember that everyone is volunteering their time, and respect for one another is the most important part of this entire process.
I’m very understanding and sympathetic to the fact that running large communities is difficult.
My impression of the current situation is that trust is especially low between community mods/contributors and the admin team. The only way to repair that trust is through transparency, and I would suggest that your team implement as many measures as possible.
For example, mastodon.world discloses all of their finances.
Content banning and user banning processes need publicly posted procedures. How many warnings does each user get? What is the appeal process like? Banning of communities or users should never occur unless it is in violation of an existing policy. It is not okay to change the rules and ban simultaneously (e.g. as was done with c/scat or c/rapehentai). Instead, provide some advance notice. Ideally, suspend before banning. Provide the banned community or user with information about why they were banned.
In a situation like this, where there is so much wild speculation about the content policy, my honest opinion would just be to make the entire process transparent. For example, I used to write minutes for the mediawiki community I was in and sometimes I would publish saved IRC logs. Example minutes:
- Date
- User A submitted this proposal (linked)
- User B, C said X about the proposal
- User D said Y about the proposal
- The vote on this proposal was #-# (# did not vote)
- The proposal passed and will be implemented on future date Z
Although I suppose it was more important for our community to track all the minutes because we were a volunteer community with elected admins. However, for the situation that you are in, I really think it would be beneficial to pursue transparency to that degree.
Again, I’m just a sysadmin (apparently the head sysadmin now??) but it’s all easier said than done. I think better inclusion of mod input into these decisions is absolutely necessary, but I’m not sure I have a great solution to do that now. I hope we can, and I hope we can make the instance better, but only time will tell.
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Because we’re an NSFW instance and hosting is typically not always stoked about that, we would rather not provide disgruntled users with the information they can use to bombard our provider and make it easier for them to just kill our access. Our current hosting is OK with it.
More importantly, you should know that when you post here your content is federated and sent to other servers too. We’re working on systems to prevent them from going to servers that don’t or can’t want that. So if you’re concerned over “who is hosting your content” you shouldn’t post anything on lemmy, because federation means EVERYONE is.
It’s absolutely trivial to determine who is hosting you. This is pretty bad as far as justifications go.
We should have protections in place to make it harder than a google search, and that’s what we’d like. Ideally no one has a grudge enough to pursue it to the extent that I’m worried about.
It takes all of 2 seconds without any Google search to identify where a public facing service is. This is just embarrassing.
Funny thing is if you actually took 2 seconds to see you would see their host is hidden by their domain provider
This is the best running instance I’m on. Far better than lemmy.ml which is literally run by Lemmy devs.
Some thoughts:
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It would be nice if file upload limit would be increased, maybe to 1.5 MB or 2MB? 1MB just feels too restrictive and I end up having to shrink down a lot of the images or convert them to jpgs that I am trying to upload
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I think it would be nice to set up some limits for example or at least have that conversation, for example only 2 years of posts for each community or 9999 posts for each community, then other posts would “drop off” and disk can be reclaimed, similar to 4chan style image boards. As much as I want to have content forever realize that hosting this stuff isn’t free.
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I am not a fan of scat or throw up porn but I do think it should still be here. Maybe admins can have some sort of toggle to prevent some communities for showing in c/all but otherwise I do think we should have those communities.
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I also think we should continue to have those celebs communities. Those communities aren’t purely “sfw”, your boss would definitely raise an eye brow if he or she would see you scrolling through Katy Perry red carpet photos not to mention if you were doing that around family or kids, there would be questions. Furthermore those communities sexualize celebs and post explicit comments about them which again isn’t a “sfw” thing. Other lemmy instances may have communities for those celebs but with more focus on their work for example Taylor Swift community focused on her music not just her hot sexy body, you know?
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If people don’t like certain communities they can block them. I myself have blocked around ~35 communities mostly centering around hentai/anime, not a fan of that stuff but to each their own.
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Thanks for the admins for getting this up and running and maintaining it. It’s nice to have a sanctuary now that reddit is hellbent on ruining their site to get an IPO and cash out.
Quick responses to the two of those i have suggestions/answers to:
One way around the limitation is to use a hosting site like catbox.moe to host the images. i know that doesnt solve the issue, but for now its the best i’ve got :/
Once we have the tools to allow sudo quarantined coms the admin team does intend to allow scat throw up, etc on the instance. in talking to the admins they have made it clear its very much a temporary thing due to limited lemmy tools. (some contents are perma banned but they are listed seperately and are more along the lines of “illegal” rather than “not my taste”)
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Ditto, please look into it?
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Unfortunately that isn’t a feature that’s included in lemmy right now, but a good work around would be https://lemmyverse.net/communities
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Kbin is a completely different code base than lemmy. They both use the activitypub communication protocol but implement it differently.
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Might be a good time to ask Kbin if this a hidden feature or custom script. I’d wager other instances would like to have it as well.
Question: Will user profiles have follower counts? Also is there a way to share a link to my fans so they can follow me here? Thanks 🫶
To my knowledge there isnt a convinient way to follow, or see followers currently. They did resolve a ticket about adding the capability to follow in the backend as completed :https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/752 so I do beleive the lemmy team (not nsfwlemmy team) intends to add this functionality over time, however it may take a decent amount of time as its not a minor change.
For now my suggestion would be to create a community (which it seems you did) and share that with your fans, and copy your posts there.
👍👍👍
Absolutely the reply I would make. Thank you!
I don’t think you can even follow users.
What should we use to post videos/gifs. It should be integrated in the site itself. No one likes to click a link and go to other site to watch a video/gifs.
Try using imgchest for now as it expands inline and play (unlike redgifs links where you have to click into the post to be able to expand/play inline within Lemmy. Having to navigate back and forth between a post and back main listing page is effectively the same as having to go to redgifs site).
The downside is that imgchest only allows up to 30MB for video clips, so not quite the same quality level as redgifs - but you are also not hampered by redgifs’ lame requirement to provide mandatory “tags”).
Lensdump does not allow videos, afaik. [Addition] Lensdump is good for images, as when you retrieve the Embed image links for posting, you can choose normal or mid-res quality type url. Example
[Update July 9] with 0.18.1 update, redgifs links now can be expanded and played inline, so much better!
This is good info. > lensdumps
Would be nice if we had something like RES on desktop to help but we can’t have the world overnight.
